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[NFL] Thread: Covid Toe: It's A Thing

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    So uh

    Campbell gonna hold those timeouts and just hope for a doink?

    Captain Inertia on
    Eddy
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    i mean that would be a beary thing to happen too

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    So uh

    Campbell gonna hold those timeouts and just hope for a doink?

    Nope, he’s going to use 2 in a row and get a penalty…

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
    Captain InertiaMorganVDoctor DetroitHappylilElfElvenshaeH3Knuckles
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    So uh

    Campbell gonna hold those timeouts and just hope for a doink?

    Turns out he was saving them to just set them on fire

    Marathon on
    Captain InertiaMorganVDoctor DetroitBlackDragon480H3Knuckles
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    So uh

    Campbell gonna hold those timeouts and just hope for a doink?

    Nope. He's gonna burn two, getting a 5yd penalty on the second, because you can't call back to back time outs.

    Lions playing 4D chess here. By throwing the game, they may have Nagy keep his job, fucking the Bears.

    And as I type this, the Lions are saved by using the third by Chicago beating them to it.

    What a shitshow.

    Trajan45BlackDragon480
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Absolutely incredible

    RedTide
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    Absolutely incredible

    It's got potential to be better.

    Bears fuck this FG...

    Nup. It goes in.

    Bears should still fire Nagy.

    Winning against the Lions this close, should be seen as a loss.

    MorganV on
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Christ what a sloppy fucking team. I'm mad that I rooted for these Lions for even this one game

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    I like Campbell but he may have to do some clean up of staff in the off season. He shouldn’t be doing playcalling, so he can make sure crap like too many men isn’t an issue. I don’t think John Harbaugh calls plays.

    Might need a better OC if they can’t call plays.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Chicago Bears: Error of the Midway

    TicaldfjamBlackDragon480zepherinH3Knuckles
  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    My father in law: "You put a crown on Andy Dalton and he's the Burger King guy."

    MorganVTicaldfjamDoctor DetroittzeentchlingTrajan45zepherinShadowenMunkus BeaverXantomasElvenshaeSorceH3KnucklesPailryderchrono_traveller
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    The Bears got the ball with 8:30 left in the game, and the Lions never got it back.

    Also, the game-winning drive was 69 yards.

    So, nice Thanksgiving for the Bears.

    zepherinElvenshaechrono_traveller
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    What is a catch?

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    What is a catch?

    Pretty much. Defining that is one of the hardest things to do. At best, it should have been a 50/50 of being called a catch, and I'm in favor of calling those as such, and overturning on review if needed.

    I really want to slam McCarthy for fucking up by not challenging, but I don't think it had a chance of being overturned.

    zepherin
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    MorganV wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    What is a catch?

    Pretty much. Defining that is one of the hardest things to do. At best, it should have been a 50/50 of being called a catch, and I'm in favor of calling those as such, and overturning on review if needed.

    I really want to slam McCarthy for fucking up by not challenging, but I don't think it had a chance of being overturned.
    I agree with not challenging it. It wasn’t definitive.

    Shame though it was a cool as fuck non play.

    zepherin on
    MorganV
  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    WTF was that Chipotle commercial?

    MorganVzepherin
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    The look of exasperation on the 59yd FG going doink on McCarthy's face, was worth the price of admission.

    Eat shit, Beav.

    That Raider who launched though, that should have been an ejection. Fuck doing that to someone.

    ADDIT - Kinda bullshit that "fame" matters for penalties. Seen at least three hits on Carr, that if he's Rodgers or Brady, get called. Nothing truly egregious, but if it's going to be called for some, it should be called for everyone.

    MorganV on
    A Dabble Of TheloniusBlackDragon480TicaldfjamTrajan45zepherinchrono_traveller
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    Wild game. Surprisingly good.

    Dude, why do you keep mugging the receiver?
    They call you every fucking time.

    zepherin on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    It wouldn't be Thanksgiving without a Dallas choke.

    MorganVTicaldfjamElvenshaeadmanbShadowenH3Knuckleschrono_traveller
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    zepherin wrote: »
    Wild game. Surprisingly good.

    Dude, why do you keep mugging the receiver?
    They call you every fucking time.

    "Watch us piss away a game to a mediocre team." - Lions
    "Hold my beer." - Cowboys

    For those that didn't see, tied game, sudden death.

    Dak fucks up the first possession, they punt the ball 50+yds, another 15 for a receiving penalty.
    Raiders play a couple of plays, advancing the ball, but not dominating.
    Cowboys CB (Anthony Brown) gives up a massive PI, putting the Raiders in FG range. That player's 4th time getting penalized for a PI so this game.
    Raiders run a couple times.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick is good. False Start.
    39yd FG attempt. Unabated.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick doinks. Unabated.
    29yd FG* attempt. Kick is good. Raiders win.

    * The second Unabated actually gave the Raiders a 1st down, they went "Fuck it, we want to go home" and kicked a FG on 1st and 10 with more than four minutes to play.

    MorganV on
    TicaldfjamElvenshaeBlackDragon480zepherinLostNinjatzeentchlingMvrckH3Knuckles
  • TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Snoqualmie, WARegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    Wild game. Surprisingly good.

    Dude, why do you keep mugging the receiver?
    They call you every fucking time.

    "Watch us piss away a game to a mediocre team." - Lions
    "Hold my beer." - Cowboys

    For those that didn't see, tied game, sudden death.

    Dak fucks up the first possession, they punt the ball 50+yds, another 15 for a receiving penalty.
    Raiders play a couple of plays, advancing the ball, but not dominating.
    Cowboys CB (Anthony Brown) gives up a massive PI, putting the Raiders in FG range. That player's 4th time getting penalized for a PI so this game.
    Raiders run a couple times.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick is good. False Start.
    39yd FG attempt. Unabated.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick doinks. Unabated.
    29yd FG* attempt. Kick is good. Raiders win.

    * The second Unabated actually gave the Raiders a 1st down, they went "Fuck it, we want to go home" and kicked a FG on 1st and 10 with more than four minutes to play.

    A meteor crashing through, wiping out both fanbases, in Jerryworld, would've been icing on the cake.

    ElvenshaeBlackDragon480LostNinjazepherin
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    Wild game. Surprisingly good.

    Dude, why do you keep mugging the receiver?
    They call you every fucking time.

    "Watch us piss away a game to a mediocre team." - Lions
    "Hold my beer." - Cowboys

    For those that didn't see, tied game, sudden death.

    Dak fucks up the first possession, they punt the ball 50+yds, another 15 for a receiving penalty.
    Raiders play a couple of plays, advancing the ball, but not dominating.
    Cowboys CB (Anthony Brown) gives up a massive PI, putting the Raiders in FG range. That player's 4th time getting penalized for a PI so this game.
    Raiders run a couple times.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick is good. False Start.
    39yd FG attempt. Unabated.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick doinks. Unabated.
    29yd FG* attempt. Kick is good. Raiders win.

    * The second Unabated actually gave the Raiders a 1st down, they went "Fuck it, we want to go home" and kicked a FG on 1st and 10 with more than four minutes to play.

    A meteor crashing through, wiping out both fanbases, in Jerryworld, would've been icing on the cake.

    Fanbases, yeah.

    But with Gruden being fucked off earlier in the season, I was rooting for the Raiders.

    As long as mediocre teams get to have these games*, I'll always root for the other team.

    * Wiki says in 2006 that the third game was supposed to rotate, but the Saints have been in three of the last four schedules (last year was supposed to be Steelers vs Ravens, but COVIDbirds fucked that). So why the Saints got another one, who knows.

    MorganV on
    TicaldfjamBlackDragon480
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    Wild game. Surprisingly good.

    Dude, why do you keep mugging the receiver?
    They call you every fucking time.

    "Watch us piss away a game to a mediocre team." - Lions
    "Hold my beer." - Cowboys

    For those that didn't see, tied game, sudden death.

    Dak fucks up the first possession, they punt the ball 50+yds, another 15 for a receiving penalty.
    Raiders play a couple of plays, advancing the ball, but not dominating.
    Cowboys CB (Anthony Brown) gives up a massive PI, putting the Raiders in FG range. That player's 4th time getting penalized for a PI so this game.
    Raiders run a couple times.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick is good. False Start.
    39yd FG attempt. Unabated.
    34yd FG attempt. Kick doinks. Unabated.
    29yd FG* attempt. Kick is good. Raiders win.

    * The second Unabated actually gave the Raiders a 1st down, they went "Fuck it, we want to go home" and kicked a FG on 1st and 10 with more than four minutes to play.

    A meteor crashing through, wiping out both fanbases, in Jerryworld, would've been icing on the cake.

    Fanbases, yeah.

    But with Gruden being fucked off earlier in the season, I was rooting for the Raiders.

    As long as mediocre teams get to have these games*, I'll always root for the other team.

    * Wiki says in 2006 that the third game was supposed to rotate, but the Saints have been in three of the last four schedules (last year was supposed to be Steelers vs Ravens, but COVIDbirds fucked that). So why the Saints got another one, who knows.

    They really need to stop letting the same teams have it every year. There is no justifiable reason to highlight a game between two teams with 3 wins between them on the day more Americans are watching football than any other.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    I don’t mind the thanksgiving game tradition. Honestly I don’t really care which teams I fall asleep watching while I’m in a meat coma. And if it’s teams I don’t care for, I don’t feel bad about it.

    I wanted to sleep through the cowboys game, but it was just so insane I kept watching.

    zepherin on
    Trajan45Shadowhope
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I don’t mind the thanksgiving game tradition. Honestly I don’t really care which teams I fall asleep watching while I’m in a meat coma. And if it’s teams I don’t care for, I don’t feel bad about it.

    I wanted to sleep through the cowboys game, but it was just so insane I kept watching.

    I watched 20 minutes of football yesterday and it was the last 20 of that game.

    What an agonizing way for either team to lose, I'm so glad it happened to Dallas

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
    zepherinShadowhopeElvenshaechrono_travellerJohnny Chopsocky
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    ADDIT - Kinda bullshit that "fame" matters for penalties. Seen at least three hits on Carr, that if he's Rodgers or Brady, get called. Nothing truly egregious, but if it's going to be called for some, it should be called for everyone.

    Fame doesn’t really matter for roughing the passer.

    For example, this year so far, the top beneficiaries of RTP penalties are in order of first to fifth: the Saints, the Titans, the Falcons, the Lions and the Bears. The teams that have benefited least, in order fifth to first, are the Texans, Chargers, Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Eagles. Green Bay has benefited from three this year, which is the league average.

    Since at least 2009, Brady has had a below average number of RTP penalties to his benefit; Brady has actually benefited from fewer career RTP penalties than Cam Newton (32 to 35), despite playing in more games. And to use another example or two of fame bringing little benefit, Peyton Manning got the benefit less than anyone (0.13 calls per 100 attempts), and Romo was third least (0.16 per 100 attempts). The top five in terms of receiving beneficial RTP calls per 100 attempts are Allen (1.03), Garoppolo (1.09), Fitzpatrick (1.14), McCown (1.18), and RG3 (1.24).

    Source: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/roughing-the-passer?year=2021
    https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
    zepherin
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    What’s an “attempt”

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    "Attempts" isn't a relevant statistic. As it makes quarterbacks benefit look like they benefit from RTP less when they have better lines. "Per sack" or "per sack+harry" would be a better statistic.

    One thing you notice when arranging like this is that there are potential bias's in the data. In that RTP looks like it has increased over time. So someone who has had better blockers later in their career isn't going to get a lot of "high quality" sacks to produce data. And people who didn't play early in the rule only exist in the "high quality sack" era. There is also a lot of variance in the data since its a low probability occurrence.

    There is probably other data to go over but nothing terribly conclusive. Brady seems to be treated better than most QB's at the time but not the absolute best of the QB's of his era.

    wbBv3fj.png
    Captain Inertia
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    "Attempts" isn't a relevant statistic. As it makes quarterbacks benefit look like they benefit from RTP less when they have better lines. "Per sack" or "per sack+harry" would be a better statistic.

    One thing you notice when arranging like this is that there are potential bias's in the data. In that RTP looks like it has increased over time. So someone who has had better blockers later in their career isn't going to get a lot of "high quality" sacks to produce data. And people who didn't play early in the rule only exist in the "high quality sack" era. There is also a lot of variance in the data since its a low probability occurrence.

    There is probably other data to go over but nothing terribly conclusive. Brady seems to be treated better than most QB's at the time but not the absolute best of the QB's of his era.

    You can look at the QB data on a per sack basis. Brady is middle of the pack, just below Jackson and above Stafford. The top five per sack are Fitzpatrick, Allen, Garoppolo, Mahomes and Cousins.

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    I really like the one sort of "subdued" hat designs they've been wearing on the sidelines. Some more than others, depends on the team. But I really like Buffalo's, and I'm tempted to buy some merch and if someone asks me how long I've been a fan I can just say, "I've always been a fan, ever since they were Panthers."

    Pailryder
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Campbell apparently defended the double TO penalty as trying to prevent the Bears from scoring an easy TD.

    Of course, that completely ignores that an easy TD is probably the right call in that situation. It allows the Lions to get the ball back, while a first down effectively ends the game because the Bears were already in field goal range.

    It seems like Campbell keeps getting a presented with a situation and he makes the wrong call, but then a week or 2 later there’s a similar scenario where he course corrects away from the right decision because of getting it wrong the first time. Which is a convoluted way of saying that he’s probably not a good coach.

    ElvenshaeMorganV
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    ADDIT - Kinda bullshit that "fame" matters for penalties. Seen at least three hits on Carr, that if he's Rodgers or Brady, get called. Nothing truly egregious, but if it's going to be called for some, it should be called for everyone.

    Fame doesn’t really matter for roughing the passer.

    For example, this year so far, the top beneficiaries of RTP penalties are in order of first to fifth: the Saints, the Titans, the Falcons, the Lions and the Bears. The teams that have benefited least, in order fifth to first, are the Texans, Chargers, Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Eagles. Green Bay has benefited from three this year, which is the league average.

    Since at least 2009, Brady has had a below average number of RTP penalties to his benefit; Brady has actually benefited from fewer career RTP penalties than Cam Newton (32 to 35), despite playing in more games. And to use another example or two of fame bringing little benefit, Peyton Manning got the benefit less than anyone (0.13 calls per 100 attempts), and Romo was third least (0.16 per 100 attempts). The top five in terms of receiving beneficial RTP calls per 100 attempts are Allen (1.03), Garoppolo (1.09), Fitzpatrick (1.14), McCown (1.18), and RG3 (1.24).

    Source: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/roughing-the-passer?year=2021
    https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?

    While I could be wrong (it's kinda my default state), raw statistics don't tell the full picture. Not all sacks are the same, but are recorded as if they were.

    A skittish, or stationary QB are gonna generate a lot of sacks that are on him. Rodgers and Brady both have an almost preternatural ability to avoid sacks, so they aren't in the position to take on the full body sacks near as much.

    It's when they are sacked, and it's relatively mild, they seem to get a call that others don't. There was one play where a defenders forearm hit Carr's hel.et, and then his hand glanced off Carr's facemask. Not sure if it should have been called (though it is apparently the rules), but feel if it was Brady or Rodgers, it would have been.

    Same thing (difference of degree) happens with stats on interceptions. A skyball by Goff, and a receiver who bobbles the ball into the opponent's hands are both interceptions for the QB, but shouldn't have the same effect on stat's.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    "Attempts" isn't a relevant statistic. As it makes quarterbacks benefit look like they benefit from RTP less when they have better lines. "Per sack" or "per sack+harry" would be a better statistic.

    One thing you notice when arranging like this is that there are potential bias's in the data. In that RTP looks like it has increased over time. So someone who has had better blockers later in their career isn't going to get a lot of "high quality" sacks to produce data. And people who didn't play early in the rule only exist in the "high quality sack" era. There is also a lot of variance in the data since its a low probability occurrence.

    There is probably other data to go over but nothing terribly conclusive. Brady seems to be treated better than most QB's at the time but not the absolute best of the QB's of his era.

    You can look at the QB data on a per sack basis. Brady is middle of the pack, just below Jackson and above Stafford. The top five per sack are Fitzpatrick, Allen, Garoppolo, Mahomes and Cousins.

    I did. Which is why I specified “of era”. I think it’s clear from the data that Brady didn’t get the most calls. That would be fitzmagic by a mile. And then Brees, Palmer, and Ryan are all above Brady. But that leaves Stafford, rotheslburger, smith, flacco, rivers, manning, Sanchez, cassel, Romo, and manning below him. (Plus a bunch of the also-rans of the era).

    The perception is maybe because of who you typically see play in the big broadcast games of the time. Brady and the bottom of the list.

    But there is still an eye test and telling me that Brady has been fairly penalized less than Cam Newton on a per-sack basis isn’t exactly something that passes the eye test. I have watched single games where Cam Newton should have had roughing called for him (and not called) more times than Brady should have been granted in a Season

    wbBv3fj.png
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    "Attempts" isn't a relevant statistic. As it makes quarterbacks benefit look like they benefit from RTP less when they have better lines. "Per sack" or "per sack+harry" would be a better statistic.

    One thing you notice when arranging like this is that there are potential bias's in the data. In that RTP looks like it has increased over time. So someone who has had better blockers later in their career isn't going to get a lot of "high quality" sacks to produce data. And people who didn't play early in the rule only exist in the "high quality sack" era. There is also a lot of variance in the data since its a low probability occurrence.

    There is probably other data to go over but nothing terribly conclusive. Brady seems to be treated better than most QB's at the time but not the absolute best of the QB's of his era.

    You can look at the QB data on a per sack basis. Brady is middle of the pack, just below Jackson and above Stafford. The top five per sack are Fitzpatrick, Allen, Garoppolo, Mahomes and Cousins.

    I did. Which is why I specified “of era”. I think it’s clear from the data that Brady didn’t get the most calls. That would be fitzmagic by a mile. And then Brees, Palmer, and Ryan are all above Brady. But that leaves Stafford, rotheslburger, smith, flacco, rivers, manning, Sanchez, cassel, Romo, and manning below him. (Plus a bunch of the also-rans of the era).

    The perception is maybe because of who you typically see play in the big broadcast games of the time. Brady and the bottom of the list.

    But there is still an eye test and telling me that Brady has been fairly penalized less than Cam Newton on a per-sack basis isn’t exactly something that passes the eye test. I have watched single games where Cam Newton should have had roughing called for him (and not called) more times than Brady should have been granted in a Season

    The eye test can be biased too. Off the top of my head:
    • Confirmation bias - a belief that X happens more often, so when it does happen it reinforces that belief.
    • Observer bias - suffice to say that for a multitude of reasons, many people don’t like Brady, and most people do like Cam, and that impacts how people evaluate what they see on field.
    • Availability bias - because Brady has played so long in so many prime time games, everyone has seen him get calls. Not everyone has watched so much Josh Allen.
    • Anchoring bias - at some point someone says “Brady gets all the calls” (probably going back to the tuck rule), and all flags to Brady’s benefit are evaluated in that mindset.

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I don't think you can look at data that way to determine who is and is not getting calls. It's not exactly a random event, it's largely under the defender's control. You wouldn't expect taunting to be evenly spread, it goes where the dumb players are. You have to assess each QB hit and grade the call, like an MLB score keeper judging errors.

    MorganVCaptain Inertia
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Campbell apparently defended the double TO penalty as trying to prevent the Bears from scoring an easy TD.

    Of course, that completely ignores that an easy TD is probably the right call in that situation. It allows the Lions to get the ball back, while a first down effectively ends the game because the Bears were already in field goal range.

    It seems like Campbell keeps getting a presented with a situation and he makes the wrong call, but then a week or 2 later there’s a similar scenario where he course corrects away from the right decision because of getting it wrong the first time. Which is a convoluted way of saying that he’s probably not a good coach.

    To be fair, all coaches are terrified of failure and criticism. Especially when taking any real 'risk'. So, chickening out and doing something stupid is practically lauded.

    zepherin
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I don't think you can look at data that way to determine who is and is not getting calls. It's not exactly a random event, it's largely under the defender's control. You wouldn't expect taunting to be evenly spread, it goes where the dumb players are. You have to assess each QB hit and grade the call, like an MLB score keeper judging errors.

    Thank you

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    ADDIT - Kinda bullshit that "fame" matters for penalties. Seen at least three hits on Carr, that if he's Rodgers or Brady, get called. Nothing truly egregious, but if it's going to be called for some, it should be called for everyone.

    Fame doesn’t really matter for roughing the passer.

    For example, this year so far, the top beneficiaries of RTP penalties are in order of first to fifth: the Saints, the Titans, the Falcons, the Lions and the Bears. The teams that have benefited least, in order fifth to first, are the Texans, Chargers, Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Eagles. Green Bay has benefited from three this year, which is the league average.

    Since at least 2009, Brady has had a below average number of RTP penalties to his benefit; Brady has actually benefited from fewer career RTP penalties than Cam Newton (32 to 35), despite playing in more games. And to use another example or two of fame bringing little benefit, Peyton Manning got the benefit less than anyone (0.13 calls per 100 attempts), and Romo was third least (0.16 per 100 attempts). The top five in terms of receiving beneficial RTP calls per 100 attempts are Allen (1.03), Garoppolo (1.09), Fitzpatrick (1.14), McCown (1.18), and RG3 (1.24).

    Source: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/roughing-the-passer?year=2021
    https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?

    While I could be wrong (it's kinda my default state), raw statistics don't tell the full picture. Not all sacks are the same, but are recorded as if they were.

    A skittish, or stationary QB are gonna generate a lot of sacks that are on him. Rodgers and Brady both have an almost preternatural ability to avoid sacks, so they aren't in the position to take on the full body sacks near as much.

    It's when they are sacked, and it's relatively mild, they seem to get a call that others don't. There was one play where a defenders forearm hit Carr's hel.et, and then his hand glanced off Carr's facemask. Not sure if it should have been called (though it is apparently the rules), but feel if it was Brady or Rodgers, it would have been.

    Same thing (difference of degree) happens with stats on interceptions. A skyball by Goff, and a receiver who bobbles the ball into the opponent's hands are both interceptions for the QB, but shouldn't have the same effect on stat's.

    I think this is a bad window to look at Brady because I think this is when who he was as a quarterback began to fundamentally change.

    First this is post 2007-08 season where the Giants handed him his first Super Bowl loss largely by putting him on the turf to keep him from being super effective.

    Second this is around when his arm lost a little oomph and the amount of passes he threw for long distance started to drop off (he still only throws just enough of them to keep defenses offense).

    Between these two factors and the Patriots offensive line becoming less superhuman then it was during their early run his days of spending a long time in the pocket were numbered. The Pats shifted to offenses that had a ton of play action/two tight end sets/a focus on slot ball receivers vs down field guys i.e. Brady started getting the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible.

    And it's been hugely successful and New England adapting the offense to his needs probably has helped extend his career immensely.

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    zepherin
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    ADDIT - Kinda bullshit that "fame" matters for penalties. Seen at least three hits on Carr, that if he's Rodgers or Brady, get called. Nothing truly egregious, but if it's going to be called for some, it should be called for everyone.

    Fame doesn’t really matter for roughing the passer.

    For example, this year so far, the top beneficiaries of RTP penalties are in order of first to fifth: the Saints, the Titans, the Falcons, the Lions and the Bears. The teams that have benefited least, in order fifth to first, are the Texans, Chargers, Cowboys, Buccaneers, and Eagles. Green Bay has benefited from three this year, which is the league average.

    Since at least 2009, Brady has had a below average number of RTP penalties to his benefit; Brady has actually benefited from fewer career RTP penalties than Cam Newton (32 to 35), despite playing in more games. And to use another example or two of fame bringing little benefit, Peyton Manning got the benefit less than anyone (0.13 calls per 100 attempts), and Romo was third least (0.16 per 100 attempts). The top five in terms of receiving beneficial RTP calls per 100 attempts are Allen (1.03), Garoppolo (1.09), Fitzpatrick (1.14), McCown (1.18), and RG3 (1.24).

    Source: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/roughing-the-passer?year=2021
    https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?

    While I could be wrong (it's kinda my default state), raw statistics don't tell the full picture. Not all sacks are the same, but are recorded as if they were.

    A skittish, or stationary QB are gonna generate a lot of sacks that are on him. Rodgers and Brady both have an almost preternatural ability to avoid sacks, so they aren't in the position to take on the full body sacks near as much.

    It's when they are sacked, and it's relatively mild, they seem to get a call that others don't. There was one play where a defenders forearm hit Carr's hel.et, and then his hand glanced off Carr's facemask. Not sure if it should have been called (though it is apparently the rules), but feel if it was Brady or Rodgers, it would have been.

    Same thing (difference of degree) happens with stats on interceptions. A skyball by Goff, and a receiver who bobbles the ball into the opponent's hands are both interceptions for the QB, but shouldn't have the same effect on stat's.

    I think this is a bad window to look at Brady because I think this is when who he was as a quarterback began to fundamentally change.

    First this is post 2007-08 season where the Giants handed him his first Super Bowl loss largely by putting him on the turf to keep him from being super effective.

    Second this is around when his arm lost a little oomph and the amount of passes he threw for long distance started to drop off (he still only throws just enough of them to keep defenses offense).

    Between these two factors and the Patriots offensive line becoming less superhuman then it was during their early run his days of spending a long time in the pocket were numbered. The Pats shifted to offenses that had a ton of play action/two tight end sets/a focus on slot ball receivers vs down field guys i.e. Brady started getting the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible.

    And it's been hugely successful and New England adapting the offense to his needs probably has helped extend his career immensely.
    That’s 14 years of data. That’s the majority of his career. Do you want to include data before that? I’m not sure what area you want to look at. Also they changed the rules in 2008.

    Now to chip away at my own point they changed the rules in 2008 because Tom Brady had his ACL torn by a sack.

    Shadowhope
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