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[NFL] Thread: Denver Gets That Tall Pocket Passer They've Been Missing

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  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Also they mentioned this basically in passing but it's a bit sad to see Michele Tafoya retiring. She's been a very constant, solid sideline presence during my time with football.

    It appears she has a post-football plan in action already


    Yeah I saw she's going to chair the minnesota GOP. So uhh go fuck yourself nut job.

    She does look like Michelle Bachmann in that screen grab

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited February 15
    Butters wrote: »
    I hate Ben as much as the next guy, but he is no question a Hall of Fame quarterback. The stats are there, the win count is there, the rings are there, and for about a 10-year period he was the hardest QB to sack in league history.

    Ben had 2 superlative seasons where he was the best QB in the league in terms of per-pass impact too

    Captain Inertia on
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  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    edited February 15
    I dunno if this is the definition of irony

    but I imagine the men who regularly discounted Tafoya's opinion on sports because of their misogyny will be quick to parade her talking points and reference her career in sports media as something that 'validates her'

    while the people who were more likely to defend her against said folks will now be the ones to abandon her completely (if they weren't already really paying attention to anything she said which is likely of most people)

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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    The NFL HoF represents like 1% of people who have played, I think it’s pretty elite (this year’s class seems very “we needed to add someone” though)

    Also why the fuck are we talking about Joe Flacco for HoF and not just as a humorous example to not get too worked up about the SB-winning QB

    I'm sorry, did you mean elite quarterback Joe Flacco?

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    The NFL HoF represents like 1% of people who have played, I think it’s pretty elite (this year’s class seems very “we needed to add someone” though)

    Also why the fuck are we talking about Joe Flacco for HoF and not just as a humorous example to not get too worked up about the SB-winning QB

    There's actually a rule that there can't be an empty HOF class.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    My barometer for Hall of Fame quarterbacks is how long did Browns fans complain about passing him up in the draft vs how bad the pick really was

    5 or more seasons: first ballot shoe in (e.g. Kellen Winslow Jr over Ben Roethlisberger)
    4 seasons: very strong candidate (e.g. Gerard Warren over Drew Brees)
    3 seasons: on the bubble but still a huge fucking miss for Cleveland (e.g. Tim Couch over Donovan McNabb)
    2 seasons: likely not but the pick in front was still painful (e.g. Jabril Peppers over Deshaun Watson)
    1 season: took a year to realize they dodged a bullet (e.g. everyone they drafted instead of Carson Wentz)

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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    If Stafford gets another ring I think he's in. Even without a ring, if he performs at a high level and wins playoff games for a few more seasons, that also might be enough.

    Do players get HoF votes? Because Stafford is pretty well liked around the league as I understand.

  • TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Snoqualmie, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 16
    Smurph wrote: »
    If Stafford gets another ring I think he's in. Even without a ring, if he performs at a high level and wins playoff games for a few more seasons, that also might be enough.

    Do players get HoF votes? Because Stafford is pretty well liked around the league as I understand.

    I personally think that Stafford just cemented his HOF credentials with winning on Sunday.

    Ticaldfjam on
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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    When Peyton Manning played his last season with the Colts, they went 10-6. Mostly the same team turned around and put up a 2-14 record without him. That's the kind of impact I'd expect a Hall QB to have. Stafford led his Lions to a 5-11 record and Goff took them to 3-13-1. Hell, Goff was 10-6 with the Rams last year against Stafford's 12-5 this year. He's better than Goff, I'll give him that. Still doesn't look like a Hall of Famer to me.

  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    I don't think Stafford is a Hall of Famer (nor Eli) but wins aren't a QB stat

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I don't think Stafford is a Hall of Famer (nor Eli) but wins aren't a QB stat

    When you can draw a direct comparison with and without the QB, they are. You can clearly see the difference between the Jameis Bucs and the Tawm Bucs. It's a stark contrast. The difference between Goff and Stafford is not a bright line.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Yea but if everyone has to be as good as Peyton Manning then there would only be maybe 4 QBs in the hall

    Goumindong on
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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Yea but if everyone has to be as good as Peyton Manning then there would only be maybe 4 QBs in the hall

    And if everyone has to be a little better than Jared Goff?

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Stafford doesn’t have to be better than Peyton

    He has to be better than Matt Ryan, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Mac Jones, Dak……..

    If you’re putting Stafford in, you’re putting in nearly that entire list, along with Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes who I left out for actual HoFness

    Captain Inertia on
    Atlas in Chains
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    He has one Pro Bowl appearance

    Jeff Garcia has 4

    And nobody is calling for Jeff Garcia to go to the HOF.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The Pro Bowl is literally the dumbest argument. No one gives a fuck about the Pro Bowl.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Kirk Cousins is a 3x Pro Bowler, including this season

    Honestly he was actually good this season tho, the issue with the Vikings was they gave up an average of 10 points in the last 2 minutes of every half

    The Browns are probably a 12 win team with Cousins this season and if they pulled out a SB win with him he’d have 95% as strong a case as Matt Stafford for HoF

    This is so stupid

    Captain Inertia on
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Jeff Garcia and Kirk Cousins never won a super bowl.
    And that’s really the minimum for most HOF, unless they are truly exceptional. And near as I can tell almost every QB in the HOf has at least been to the championship game (whatever it was called).

    zepherin on
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    dan marino and jim kelly having a little fun
    fnumrtrmz3l7.png

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Hold up

    Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in

    Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
    Dilfer
    Brady
    Johnson
    Roethlisberger
    P Manning
    E Manning
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Flacco
    Wilson
    Foles
    Mahomes
    Stafford

    Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass

    If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition

    All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses

    Stafford just had to beat the Bengals

    Atlas in Chains
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    I feel so bad for Jim Kelly and all the Bills fans that went through it

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    of the 21 SB-era HoF QBs, 5 never won a SB

    Marino
    Kelly
    Moon
    Tarkenton
    Fouts

    y’all getting way way out of bounds with this stuff, winning a SB should not have triggered this response for a guy slightly behind Rich Gannon’s career trajectory so far

    Atlas in ChainszepherintinwhiskersLostNinja
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    I just googled Brad Johnson

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I just googled Brad Johnson

    Was it good for you?

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Hold up

    Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in

    Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
    Dilfer
    Brady
    Johnson
    Roethlisberger
    P Manning
    E Manning
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Flacco
    Wilson
    Foles
    Mahomes
    Stafford

    Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass

    If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition

    All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses

    Stafford just had to beat the Bengals

    Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.

    Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I feel like the main argument for Stafford going to the hall is that like, he ought to get some kinda massive plus/minus bonus for playing in detroit all those years

    which is maybe fair! But it doesn't feel like the hall will open up a 'what if they didn't play in detroit/cleveland' wing

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Hold up

    Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in

    Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
    Dilfer
    Brady
    Johnson
    Roethlisberger
    P Manning
    E Manning
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Flacco
    Wilson
    Foles
    Mahomes
    Stafford

    Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass

    If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition

    All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses

    Stafford just had to beat the Bengals

    Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.

    Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.

    Passing Yards is completely meaningless now that the NFL is basically Arena League

    Stafford is fine, but there’s lots of guys you’d take over him

    Since Russ and Kirk entered the league (2012):
    z4d8qubevwrd.jpeg

    Only half the league would even trade for him

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I feel so bad for Jim Kelly and all the Bills fans that went through it

    Yeah someone said "the bengals have lost 3 super bowls now." and I said "get back to me when its in a row."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I just googled Brad Johnson

    Was it good for you?
    I will have forgotten his name by tomorrow

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Or get back to me when they haven't made the play offs in twenty fucking years.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    Captain Inertiajmcdonald
  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Hold up

    Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in

    Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
    Dilfer
    Brady
    Johnson
    Roethlisberger
    P Manning
    E Manning
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Flacco
    Wilson
    Foles
    Mahomes
    Stafford

    Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass

    If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition

    All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses

    Stafford just had to beat the Bengals

    Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.

    Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.

    The bolded is bad, like bad bad. It's the type of argument that talking heads trot out to devalue the success of black quarterbacks. Rushing is a huge part of the modern QB and if your argument requires tossing it out you probably need to rethink it.

    Preacherjmcdonald
  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    Rushing is a big part of the modern NFL quarterback and Russ still isn't a hall of famer

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  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    No part of that was meant to argue either for or against Wilson's HoF chances, merely pointing out an argument that's often used by bad actors.

    Now if you want to talk about the bullshit of "first ballot hall of famer" and how the voters have used the term to inflate their own importance then let's roll

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    It’s also wrong because Russ is a significantly better passer than Stafford by every metric except total passing yards

    Russ is a really phenomenal passer who doesn’t actually run that much

    RedTide
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I just want to share something that uses a method to score guys based on relative performance vs counting stats

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm

    A method just to give folks a little more to look at

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    That method weights performance and counting stats for reference and is probably pretty decent. Startled being behind the worst current HoF QB is not a good look for his chances

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    maraji
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    I just want to share something that uses a method to score guys based on relative performance vs counting stats

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm

    A method just to give folks a little more to look at

    Eli Manning, below average Hall of Famer, gives me a good laugh and it seems pretty likely going off something like this

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  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    Does anyone have any good resources for understanding the game better? I'd love to find some good avenues for what types of defensive/offensive schemes teams are running, and why. Or how is a pro RPO different than college, that kind of stuff. Tony Romo nerding out about plays type things. I am already bored to death about hearing HOF and retirement/trade speculation.

  • SixSix Free nights and weekends Registered User regular
    Does anyone have any good resources for understanding the game better? I'd love to find some good avenues for what types of defensive/offensive schemes teams are running, and why. Or how is a pro RPO different than college, that kind of stuff. Tony Romo nerding out about plays type things. I am already bored to death about hearing HOF and retirement/trade speculation.

    Take your eye off the ball 2.0 is a great book.

    Use a password manager.
    Captain InertiaRocketSauce
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I am already bored to death about hearing HOF and retirement/trade speculation.

    We're in Mock Draft Season, now! Get hype!

    ElvenshaemarajiCaptain Inertia
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