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Early Access, how early is too early?

CanemutoCanemuto Registered User new member
Today is the one year anniversary of Baldur's Gate 3 being released to early access. I love the franchise and have played the hell out of it. I still have my original CD's from the first release of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. When Beamdog created the Enhanced Editions, I got to experience the nostalgia of fighting alongside Minsc and Boo (the Giant Space Hamster). Baldur's Gate 3 by comparison has been a constant frustration. I want to love it, but every time I hit a wall with a story line or lore, because the game isn't complete, I get really annoyed. My real issue with Baldur's Gate 3 and other early access games is the amount of content released upon early access.

TBH I guess my expectations of an "Early Access" game are a little high. My expectations being that a game is 1-3 months from completion and the developers just need a little more financial runway to make the game happen the way they envisioned it. The launch of Baldur's Gate 3 has been like an over hyped kickstarter that started to put a bad taste in my mouth with their "Panel from Hell 1 & 2" the ultimate goal of which is to convince players that "everything is fine and we are hitting all of the goals on our roadmap in a timely manner".

So a year later, the game still isn't complete (but is some how on version 4 now). This is in spite of the fact that Larian Studios CLEARLY used assets and resources from Divinity: Original Sin 2 in the creation process of Baldur's Gate 3. This is an important factor because having existing resources for the creation of a game cuts down on production time and costs.

We can talk about the effects of the virus on the development of games in 2020, but let's just keep in mind, Baldur's Gate 3 early access didn't drop until after the vaccine was being rolled out. These guys have a had an additional year of funding and time from players and have yet to produce a final product.

I chose Baldur's Gate 3 for the subject of this debate because Larian Studios is NOT an indie game company. I have recently experienced similar "early access" problems from other games like Hammerting and Valheim. But even smaller developers like Warpzone and Iron Gate don't really have a leg to stand on when compared to a game like Chronicon who has been releasing major content updates for the past year with a sole developer (that's right, the ENTIRE game is produced by a single guy).

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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    My position on early access games is "Dont buy them", unless you used to work as a game tester and feel nostalgic about finding bugs.

    Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I feel like this is a question that depends far more on the developers themselves then the amount of time. Ark survival evolved for example, had a fairly lengthy Early Access from what I recall, but the developers were very active during that constantly pushing out patches and new things. They were annoyingly focused on balancing the game around large scale PVP tribes, that has nothing to do with how early they released early access. On the other side of things you have Starbound, which had oodles of hype, oodles and oodles of it, but then the Early Access was so janky it basically killed the game. More contemporarily, we have icarus, which was initially going to release in august, but they ended up delaying release, and are making up for it by doing some Early Access beta weekend stuff, and they had a solid enough game at this point that the betas have been delightful.

    NEO|Phyte on
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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Early access used to be for people to try out the game, give feedback and then let the devs do their thing. But cos the internet has to internet, people treated them like full releases and complained. The criticism lead to other people to defend the titles using the fact that it was in early access as a defence. Complanies quickly took note and started to release unfinished titles/glorified demos as early access so the term has now become sinonimos with buggy software. Then indie devs got in on the act, trading in their viral popularity for funds to continue developing.

    In short, early access is now used as a marketing tool and/or fundraising.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I have a similar history with the BG games so bought the BG3 EA as a show if support, with no intention of even playing it. Then i was like ok I'll give it a try, noped out a few hours into it when i saw somewhere it's not the full story yet.

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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    When I want to support a studio, I buy their finished fully functional games, I think that paying studios in advanced is a terrible practice.
    Having said that, I have bought some early access games in my time, the wildest one being Kenji, wich has been in develpment for like a decade now, and ARK wich was pretty much obsolete by the time it was finished.

    Also, Baldurs Gate is dead, BG 1 and 2 were great, but that is the end of the franchise, Id rather throw my money at something new.

    Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    I'm definitely more careful these days with both Kickstarters and Early Access titles than I was in the early days of both. After Starbound particularly bit me in the ass on the EA side of that equation, I'll basically only buy Early Access games if they're from a known studio, plus feature complete and with a set launch date. The most recent example of this was Subnautica: Below Zero

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Valheim is probably on my "best gaming experiences of all time" list and it's nowhere near done yet, but I haven't launched BG3 in ages so I guess I have mixed feelings on this...

  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I originally meant to make three lists - Good, OK, and Bad. After searching, all of these were good:

    PUBG
    Valheim
    Oxygen Not Included
    World of Tanks
    Kerbal Space Program
    Sunless Sea

    Tarkov is OK

    Starbound was Bad

    SummaryJudgment on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    How early is too early is going to change from person to person. I've poured hundreds of hours in to Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Project having a blast with those unfinished games.

    With BG3, Larian was upfront with their plans for early access. It was to test, balance, and take in player feedback. Their own timeline for completing the game was over a year which they based on the last game they developed.

    This is all to say there isn't a set answer. Putting a "Finished" label on a game isn't going to be what makes it enjoyable for anyone.

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I've been enjoying Satisfactory and it's been in early access for something like 3 years. It feels pretty finished at this point, but once a game has been in early access for so long that even if updates are still coming, there's less incentive to mark a build as 1.0.

    Still, much love for Coffee Stain.

  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    I have found a couple people who stream games and until I see one or more play an early access to see the state I am not buying. Also it is good to see how often and how much has been added to the game recently with patches updating content closer to the "finished" product.

    If the core gameplay loop and around 5 hours of gameplay are in then it seems reasonable to buy early.

    One other thing is clear and concrete development goals that they talk about. If there is a plan for where the game will move forward.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    You should buy an early access title when you are interested in it's current state.

    Some experimental stuff that'll never get finished has being fine to pick up for me at times.

    But also on the opposite end the idea of buying a CRPG that won't be finished for over a year or two is hilarious to me.

    Just read up what's currently in the game and buy it based on that. Unless the studio has a super solid rep there's no point theorizing on the end position.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    From the various Early Access games that I've played, I think sandbox games probably work better in that model than linear games.

    In fact for some games this model might even work better than the traditional release model (assuming the initial release was in a good state)

    Mostly because once you have a solid base game and gameplay loop, further updates are adding mechanics and revisiting old mechanics that don't work.

    But even that's not 100%, it mostly comes down to trying them and getting burned before finding the devs that you can trust.

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Doc wrote: »
    I've been enjoying Satisfactory and it's been in early access for something like 3 years. It feels pretty finished at this point, but once a game has been in early access for so long that even if updates are still coming, there's less incentive to mark a build as 1.0.

    Still, much love for Coffee Stain.

    I think it depends on price too. I'm willing to spend $20 on an early access that tickles my interests, especially if it's going to see a price increase at full release. Also there needs to be a game there. It might not be done, but it needs to be playable with loops.

    Even now though, I've tried Satisfactory, Dyson Sphere Project and a few others. I played enough to know I liked the game and now I'll set it aside and let them finish it before picking it up again.

    When I back a game on kickstarter these days (few and far between) I go for the cheapest tier that gets me the game. I have no desire to get early access to those anymore. I don't want to interact with the devs or the community.

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  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Let's not also forget that there is a long, long history of horribly unfinished games getting labeled "Version 1.0"

    Not gonna name names but a recent one rhymes with byberbunk

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    What was terrible about Starbound?
    Seemed as good as Terraria.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Roughly, I'd say that early access is a bad idea for a story-driven linear path game, but fine for a dynamic systems game or a session-based game (Civilization, etc.). It gets muddier in between.

    Only so many people enjoy being beta readers.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Cries in Humankind

    Early Access has definitely become an "I ran out of money partway through development" marketing tool.

    Games2Gether doesn't fuck around and Humankind will be great eventually. But still, I'm burned.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Roughly, I'd say that early access is a bad idea for a story-driven linear path game, but fine for a dynamic systems game or a session-based game (Civilization, etc.). It gets muddier in between.

    Only so many people enjoy being beta readers.

    One game I've enjoyed playing in early access is Hardspace Shipbreaker. The problem is every time they patch in more content/story, they reset your progress and you have to start the game over from scratch.

    Which is ironically apt, given the game's theme of you trying to slowly claw yourself out of inescapable debt and the company you work for trying to drag you back down into it.

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    What was terrible about Starbound?
    Seemed as good as Terraria.

    Much in the vein of a few other space games, it got whacked by self-imposed cycles of feature bloat while having an unclear roadmap

    It's kind of the opposite of a Terraria or No Man's Sky in terms of how much post-release content it got, too

  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    discrider wrote: »
    What was terrible about Starbound?
    Seemed as good as Terraria.
    I suspect it's mostly that the initial janky EA releases soured everyone on it, so by the time it reached release most people didn't care anymore.

    It also definitely has the procedural content issue of 99% of the randomly generated weapons are utter trash, and there's no novelty to exploring planets past the first one so it just becomes a scour the surface to check if it has the right dungeon/town spawns for whatever you're currently hunting.

    NEO|Phyte on
    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Early Access is a tool, and I'm of the opinion that it is a net positive for the industry as a whole.

    The vast, vast majority of what I've been playing for the last few years are titles that were developed via Early Access. Whether or not they could have been without is an argument I'm not particularly interested in, because it doesn't matter. Sometimes Early Access is abused, but that doesn't lessen the impact of the ones that made their mark via Early Access. A lot of startup studios are getting their games done without needing to front load investment via venture capital in order to afford their team. It means innovation and expertise are truly king. Well, sort of. Obviously marketing is still the lever by which this whole thing works, but anyway.

    There are some games that I know wouldn't exist without Early Access, and they have had measurable impact. Kerbal Space Progam is probably the most significant one, but Factorio's influence is showing up in lots of games these days that have a strong automation bent. And I think Oxygen Not Included is the best colony/village/town management sim ever made. I'm not sure any of those titles would exist (maybe ONI, because Klei was established already) without that buy in.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    That really is the thing - it's a tool and it's very easy to use that tool wrong, but when it's used right, you get great results, like using a router to put beautiful edging on a bookcase. And then horrible results when you try and use that router to carve a turkey.

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    If I buy a game before it comes out, because of an early access or preorder bonus, I buy it at the last possible opportunity to get the bonus. So the company can’t realize it on their P&Ls before the game comes out.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    What was terrible about Starbound?
    Seemed as good as Terraria.
    I suspect it's mostly that the initial janky EA releases soured everyone on it, so by the time it reached release most people didn't care anymore.

    It also definitely has the procedural content issue of 99% of the randomly generated weapons are utter trash, and there's no novelty to exploring planets past the first one so it just becomes a scour the surface to check if it has the right dungeon/town spawns for whatever you're currently hunting.

    Irony,maybe: When story progression started rolling out, I liked it a lot. I liked it more than the current state of the game.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I look at EA games a lot like I look at Kickstarters for games. If I can afford to throw the money away and get nothing then, if I like the idea enough, I’ll give them my money in hopes of supporting the development.

    However: unless it’s from Zachtronics or my friends are playing it and talk me into it (Valheim, for example), I don’t play the EA games I buy. They sit there in my library until they’re officially released, because I know myself and if I play through an incomplete game the odds I’ll go back and play it again once it’s complete are very close to zero. If it never actually gets a release then it’s like the kickstarters that’s never deliver. Sucks, but I factored that possibility into the initial expense. If I couldn’t afford to get nothing I shouldn’t have paid.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    May is typically too early.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    I look at EA games a lot like I look at Kickstarters for games. If I can afford to throw the money away and get nothing then, if I like the idea enough, I’ll give them my money in hopes of supporting the development.

    However: unless it’s from Zachtronics or my friends are playing it and talk me into it (Valheim, for example), I don’t play the EA games I buy. They sit there in my library until they’re officially released, because I know myself and if I play through an incomplete game the odds I’ll go back and play it again once it’s complete are very close to zero. If it never actually gets a release then it’s like the kickstarters that’s never deliver. Sucks, but I factored that possibility into the initial expense. If I couldn’t afford to get nothing I shouldn’t have paid.

    I think early access and Kickstarter are fairly different. Early access will have something playable, often with some polish already. I don't kickstart video games anymore. Almost universally bad experiences.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Valheim is probably on my "best gaming experiences of all time" list and it's nowhere near done yet, but I haven't launched BG3 in ages so I guess I have mixed feelings on this...

    Indies are probably the best argument for Early Access. Slay the spire is a notable example which really befitted just from the raw data players can produce. Vault of the Void (disclaimer: I'm on the internal test team) it's another one where being in early access is making it a way better game than it'd be without.

    But also it's a tool like @Nova_C says. Some devs use it really well! Others....

    Not so much.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    If it's only two lines of code, then that's probably too early. Four SLOC, and a few re-used Unity assets, is good though, it's enough for an early alpha, and can be considered worthy of a steam release. :rotate:

  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    As above, you really need to know your own tolerance, but one of my favorite streamer/youtubers constantly talks about how he doesn't pre-order things, let someone else do it, and watch someone stream it and let you know their experience.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    If it's a heavily story-based game and there isn't a functional game loop plus at least the skeletal structure of the story, a game should not be in Early Release. Even if its something like a roguelike where the story is more incidental to the experience, the fundamental game loop should be there. Essentially, if that Early Release isn't more or less a demo of the actual intended game, it's not ready for any kind of release. And that also means the dev(s) should have the bones of the actual game already worked out, not done on the fly.

    One of best picks for Early Access was Subnautica. Started with a functional, if rough, experience, but there was clearly a game in mind as progress went on. Hugely rewarding overall. The Long Dark also started out with an interesting, visually-appealing survival mode at its core and then expanded way out from there into a fairly robust survival game with a unique singleplayer experience. Both solidly featured the core gameplay loops and design directions of the final game, then simply grew from there.

    One of my worst has been Ostranauts, which gave a good pitch and then the Early Access "game" ended up being a few barely-functional systems badly kludged together into a non-experience because it was too unstable to run for more than twenty minutes. And then the next several months has been "what do you want in the game" shit, so their original concept was basically some fractionally-finished ideas and then they just turned to the players to "pick" the rest. Stability has improved, but what the game is supposed to be is still a total mystery even after nearly a year.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    As long as the game is discounted in EA and actually comes out, I tend to not worry super much about how fast.

    My most played EA is Rogue Legacy 2 which updates fairly consistently and generally with a significant amount of content. It's already twice the size of the original.

    (Check it out if you enjoyed the first one!)

    Magus` on
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I don't buy Early Access games, but I also don't typically buy a game until it's in "Game of the Year" edition or includes all of of the DLC.

    I don't mind buying full expansions, but I don't like being chiseled for each extra outfit or map or whatever.

    I am also an old and play games so slowly that I'm usually a generation behind.

    The big exception and mistake I made with all the above was springing for the full Borderlands 3 version that was supposed to include all DLc. Turns out not only did that game disappoint me almost completely, but there was a second season of DLC that was not included. Learned my lesson.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    I don't have anything against early access in principle. Like everything else some people use it well, some people don't.

    I'll occasionally buy early access games that are around 30$ or less, depending on the genre. Games that are meant to be played over and over again (like roguelikes) are the best candidates. But I will never buy a game in early access if it's structured as a long storyline to go through.

    Why would I buy Baldur's Gate 3 and deal with all the bugs and missing content right away only to have to start the whole storyline from the start again when the game goes live? Especially at such a steep price.
    It's the worst kind of game to release in early access and I can't believe how much people bought it.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    I don't have anything against early access in principle. Like everything else some people use it well, some people don't.

    I'll occasionally buy early access games that are around 30$ or less, depending on the genre. Games that are meant to be played over and over again (like roguelikes) are the best candidates. But I will never buy a game in early access if it's structured as a long storyline to go through.

    Why would I buy Baldur's Gate 3 and deal with all the bugs and missing content right away only to have to start the whole storyline from the start again when the game goes live? Especially at such a steep price.
    It's the worst kind of game to release in early access and I can't believe how much people bought it.

    While I'm right there with you, I am glad for all those people doing it if it means the finished product has a greater chance of coming out in a more fleshed out and bug-free state than it would have without that Early Access feedback and funding.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    I don't have anything against early access in principle. Like everything else some people use it well, some people don't.

    I'll occasionally buy early access games that are around 30$ or less, depending on the genre. Games that are meant to be played over and over again (like roguelikes) are the best candidates. But I will never buy a game in early access if it's structured as a long storyline to go through.

    Why would I buy Baldur's Gate 3 and deal with all the bugs and missing content right away only to have to start the whole storyline from the start again when the game goes live? Especially at such a steep price.
    It's the worst kind of game to release in early access and I can't believe how much people bought it.

    While I'm right there with you, I am glad for all those people doing it if it means the finished product has a greater chance of coming out in a more fleshed out and bug-free state than it would have without that Early Access feedback and funding.

    So, this led me to think of a question.

    Is Early Access just replacing what would have been traditional q&a at a larger developer? Like, smaller developers use it for one, to proofread their games and two raise some money into development and third keep the buzz going?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    I feel like early access is just Kickstarter without all the annoying Kickstarter backer hassle. I'm okay with that.

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  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    I don't have anything against early access in principle. Like everything else some people use it well, some people don't.

    I'll occasionally buy early access games that are around 30$ or less, depending on the genre. Games that are meant to be played over and over again (like roguelikes) are the best candidates. But I will never buy a game in early access if it's structured as a long storyline to go through.

    Why would I buy Baldur's Gate 3 and deal with all the bugs and missing content right away only to have to start the whole storyline from the start again when the game goes live? Especially at such a steep price.
    It's the worst kind of game to release in early access and I can't believe how much people bought it.

    While I'm right there with you, I am glad for all those people doing it if it means the finished product has a greater chance of coming out in a more fleshed out and bug-free state than it would have without that Early Access feedback and funding.

    So, this led me to think of a question.

    Is Early Access just replacing what would have been traditional q&a at a larger developer? Like, smaller developers use it for one, to proofread their games and two raise some money into development and third keep the buzz going?

    That's more or less exactly what developers like Larian use it for. The ones actively involved with what are essentially free game testers seem to get a lot of value from the process.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    I don't have anything against early access in principle. Like everything else some people use it well, some people don't.

    I'll occasionally buy early access games that are around 30$ or less, depending on the genre. Games that are meant to be played over and over again (like roguelikes) are the best candidates. But I will never buy a game in early access if it's structured as a long storyline to go through.

    Why would I buy Baldur's Gate 3 and deal with all the bugs and missing content right away only to have to start the whole storyline from the start again when the game goes live? Especially at such a steep price.
    It's the worst kind of game to release in early access and I can't believe how much people bought it.

    While I'm right there with you, I am glad for all those people doing it if it means the finished product has a greater chance of coming out in a more fleshed out and bug-free state than it would have without that Early Access feedback and funding.

    So, this led me to think of a question.

    Is Early Access just replacing what would have been traditional q&a at a larger developer? Like, smaller developers use it for one, to proofread their games and two raise some money into development and third keep the buzz going?

    That's more or less exactly what developers like Larian use it for. The ones actively involved with what are essentially free game testers seem to get a lot of value from the process.

    Yeah I was a beta tester on the Lakeview Cabin collection after the first one got made for Ludum Dare, and that guy was all about "you give me $20, and I give you fun game to play for the next year until it's ready to hit youtube reviewers"

    Like that's just a personal take so it's not worth more than that, but it was a pleasant experience overall.

    Having said that if EA wanted me to pay to be a beta tester, otherwise a game would ship broken, I'd tell EA to go fuck itself. I feel like the medium of "early access" only works for indie dev groups.

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