It's hard for me to except all the reasons why Sony had to increase prices on games and systems when they also made record setting profits and revenue last year.
It's hard to reconcile "we have to raise prices on the consumer even though we are the market leader and no one else is doing that.' and 'we are making more money than ever before'.
I still see game prices as great value for money compared to pretty much any other hobby. My wife will drop three times what a game costs on a Lego set, finish building it while I'm still in the tutorial section of the game and then it goes and sits somewhere. Going to watch a 3 hour movie with her and buying some snacks we'd be lucky to get out for half of what a 40 hour game will cost.
Really it'd just be nice to see more of the money going to the people doing the work, not the executives.
Seriously. Gaming is like an absurd bargain of a hobby. You can spend more going out to a dinner or getting drinks than it costs to get a brad new game that will offer tens of hours of some of the best entertainment around.
I'd much rather spend my time being happy about how damn awesome this hobby is than finding every opportunity to gripe about something else.
Edit: that last part i can see could be taken a different way and I have covid brain so I wanna add a note that I really am just trying to mean I prefer taking the route of focusing on enjoyment over negatives on a general sense when it comes to entertainment. This stuff is here to have fun so tahts the part I'm gonna focus on.
It's hard for me to except all the reasons why Sony had to increase prices on games and systems when they also made record setting profits and revenue last year.
It's hard to reconcile "we have to raise prices on the consumer even though we are the market leader and no one else is doing that.' and 'we are making more money than ever before'.
It's hard not to see Nintendo as the actual leader right now, having passed PS4 sales and their first-party games have much higher ceilings in terms of sales, while being far cheaper to develop. This idea of Sony as "market leader" seems frankly outdated.
Not to say that Sony isn't overflowing with money and could have taken the hit. But I also can't fault them for raising system prices when they are *still* being scalped and that's not going to change in regions like Japan for years. So you're either handing that money to Sony or a middle-man.
Are workers at Sony studios selling $70 games making more than workers at Microsoft or other studios selling $60 games?
I'm expecting Starfield to be $70, even though it will be day one on gamepass.
That's an interesting wager, and one I'd be willing to take.
On one hand, Microsoft has a minor (and easily ignorable) PR victory, since they've been handed multiple opportunities to point to that small price difference. Granted, it's only a certainty on their first parties, since alienating publishers by forcing them to obey the same guidelines would be disastrous. So they can only really point to the whole "We sell this game once for both generations, at $60; Sony sells it twice, and $70 for the improved version," for first party releases and publishers who actually care to obey those guidelines (and it's not as though that's true in every case on Playstation 5--though all Sony first party releases are $70 for PS5, as far as I know)."
But as it stands, they actually have a successful library subscription model (at least, compared to everyone else who's tried). Sony's restarted theirs after several years of disappointment. Potentially the retail price point matters less to Microsoft; it almost certainly matters to them less than it does to Sony, who has openly stated it won't be bringing first-party launch releases to their subscription library.
Or they might might raise the prices anyway. Third-party publishers have already done it, even if it's not "normal" on Xbox (see The Quarry's separate Xbox One and Xbox Series releases). Microsoft might follow suit with Xbox Game Studio releases. But I think there's a decent chance they won't by Starfield's projected release date (which, to be honest, I'm half expecting to be delayed anyway).
(And in regards to Stabbity's original question: no, there isn't anything to suggest they are, as far as I know. As already speculated, that $10 or whatever additional profit margin is being absorbed by higher costs, or just the increased profit margin per sale. Which considering Sony's answer to Game Pass, isn't surprising.)
My most regular access to a Playstation 5 came courtesy of a former co-worker of mine who transferred to a different office. Unfortunately, the thing that statistically happens to a certain number of consoles happened to his console, and it "died" (in the sense that it would not boot up), with his copy of Elden Ring left in the drive. Naturally, he sent it to Sony in for repair/replacement (I'm pretty sure replacement, in this case, but I don't recall exactly, as that wasn't what we were focused on).
He did get his copy of Elden Ring back (I'm 99% certain of that). Unfortunately, as he expected, he also lost the entirety of all his local save and progress data, because while his wife has a PSN Plus subscription (allowing for online save backups), on the same machine, he did not. And he principally used the console for single-player, progression-centered games (most obviously, singleplayer Elden Ring, but also Death Stranding, and probably two or three other games), whereas Minecraft on Xbox was their primary multiplayer game. So apparently, he lost everything, with no backups, because there hadn't previously been a need to pay a premium for PSN.
Ouch.
That's a little frightening, since my PS4 is pretty much only for one singleplayer game (since I gave up on Gundam Battle Operation online), and if it just decided not to turn on one day, I'd be in the exact same position. And it's not as though either of us could backup our saves on external, removable storage as far as I'm aware (I suppose on the PS4, if it died I could at least remove the physical drive, and hope that it would be accepted without issue on its replacement).
You can copy PS4 saves to a USB stick, but I don't think you can with PS5 saves. They may have changed that in an update, I haven't paid attention to it.
Which like... yeah, you can say it should obviously be a feature, and it should. But let's be real here. Catastrophic errors don't announce themselves in advance. So you have to be proactive in backing your stuff up.
...Are you?
Backing up is like flossing. You know you should be doing it regularly, but I betcha you're not.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
You can copy PS4 saves to a USB stick, but I don't think you can with PS5 saves. They may have changed that in an update, I haven't paid attention to it.
Which like... yeah, you can say it should obviously be a feature, and it should. But let's be real here. Catastrophic errors don't announce themselves in advance. So you have to be proactive in backing your stuff up.
...Are you?
Backing up is like flossing. You know you should be doing it regularly, but I betcha you're not.
I do floss. I like to imagine it's how I'm in the second half of my thirties, but I've never had a cavity. Not a single one. (strange flex)
But I'm not proactively backing up my saves on console, which is worrying.
Games is the only product where the consumer defends a price increase, that's some good brainwashing.
Imagine any other industry.
"Gas prices have literally been this low for years, I'm happy that they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, my electricity rates have been stagnant for decades, I'm so happy they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, eggs were so cheap but I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
"Dude, cars have been sold for X for years, I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
Price increases in entertainment is are pretty much expected and acknowledged. Two quick examples:
When I was in high school, going to the movies was $2 per person. Now a trip to the moves requires a reservation, and it's nearly $20 a seat. Add in buying a popcorn and a beer at the theatre, and you're looking at $75 to $100 for two people to have a few hours out.
My first TV was a 19-inch CRT. I think I paid $500. That was replaced with a 50-inch plasma set in the early aughts. I paid nearly two grand for that one. That was replaced with a 65-inch OLED screen about a year before I moved, at a cost of $2500. (That TV is in storage in California right now.) I'm ordering a new QD-OLED today for a bit over AUD$4000.
Cost escalation.
Great? Are there people on movie forums defending the increase in popcorn? Defending the increase in ticket prices? Im glad people feel good carrying water for multinationals that literally dont care about you, but that's insane to me.
Yeah idk man, nobody is happy about prices going up but understanding why instead of just throwing your hands up and going "corporations graaaahhh!" Isn't making them magically go down. Personally I don't think they needed to raise prices on games, but the consoles absolutely I can see why it happened. Unless you have a time machine and can go back to before all these industries decided cheap labor in China was the only thing that mattered, things aren't changing anytime soon. And guess what? If they change the supply lines now, things are gonna get what... More expensive! So what you're asking for is fundamental revamp of the entire production process for tech stuff, while ALSO demanding prices stay the same. It's fantasy.
Games is the only product where the consumer defends a price increase, that's some good brainwashing.
Imagine any other industry.
"Gas prices have literally been this low for years, I'm happy that they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, my electricity rates have been stagnant for decades, I'm so happy they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, eggs were so cheap but I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
"Dude, cars have been sold for X for years, I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
Price increases in entertainment is are pretty much expected and acknowledged. Two quick examples:
When I was in high school, going to the movies was $2 per person. Now a trip to the moves requires a reservation, and it's nearly $20 a seat. Add in buying a popcorn and a beer at the theatre, and you're looking at $75 to $100 for two people to have a few hours out.
My first TV was a 19-inch CRT. I think I paid $500. That was replaced with a 50-inch plasma set in the early aughts. I paid nearly two grand for that one. That was replaced with a 65-inch OLED screen about a year before I moved, at a cost of $2500. (That TV is in storage in California right now.) I'm ordering a new QD-OLED today for a bit over AUD$4000.
Cost escalation.
Great? Are there people on movie forums defending the increase in popcorn? Defending the increase in ticket prices? Im glad people feel good carrying water for multinationals that literally dont care about you, but that's insane to me.
Ya'll need to chill with the "caping" and "carrying water" thing. Its really losing all meaning.
I also don't get up in arms when McDonald's burgers get more expensive. I guess I'm also somehow out here defending them with my last breathe despite the fact that I dont eat there and don't give a shit about them?
Unless the point is everyone should be up in arms and upset about absolutely every single product, hobby and industry increasing in price every single year i dont really get it.
Most of us just really don't care that much because out of all the things increasing in price constantly the one that has somehow gone up the least and still feels like a giant value seems a strange target to focus on.
DemonStacey on
+12
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited September 2022
My other hobby is miniature wargaming.
So I guess to me a price rise on video games after like 25 years of stagnant prices isn’t concerning when my other hobby sees them every couple of years without fail.
Yeah, I don't anyone is having a party because costs go up. But I do think most people acknowledge that prices are going to go up over time. We don't have to celebrate it, but arguing about how it somehow isn't fair, is (to me anyway) similar to whinging about getting older, or why Daylight Savings Time is somehow detrimental to society.
+2
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2022
I mean DST fucks with your natural sleep rhythms and is a tremendous biological stress imposed on ourselves every year.
Thats not a whine. Its a fact.
Biology doesnt give a shit about your need for more fun or productive light hours!
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
"Gas prices have literally been this low for years, I'm happy that they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, my electricity rates have been stagnant for decades, I'm so happy they finally increased their prices!"
"Man, eggs were so cheap but I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
"Dude, cars have been sold for X for years, I'm so glad they finally increased their prices!"
Imagine thinking this is equivalent to what I said.
This is also a handy list of things that have increased in price by, in some cases, orders of magnitude more than video games have over similar time periods. Eggs, for example, are ten times as expensive as they were 30 years ago. Gas is nearly 5x. Electricity has tripled. Cars are double.
I'm simply pointing out that if you're gonna rage at evil corporations have at it, but maybe getting super pissed about a hobby that has increased in price slower than the rate of inflation is aiming that rage in a weird direction.
Price increases are a fact of life. Just because they happen doesn't mean it's because an industry is out to fuck you. Do I like it? No. Do I think it's understandable? Yes. Is my hobby still worth it? Absolutely.
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
+3
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I can wrap my head around not liking the Yakuza titles, sure, but definitely cannot understand comparing them to the Deadly Premonition games.
Frankly, it sounds like a comparison made by someone who has played neither title.
It wasn't a comparison of the games, it was a comparison of it being a situation where even if you don't like the gameplay (which I don't know about for Yakuza, I've never played them) you can just go through the main game for the story. And to me, that sounded like a Deadly Premonition situation where you could get the meat of the fun from just watching the cutscenes.
I would never directly offhandedly compare a game I've not played with Deadly Premonition. Deadly Premonition is a terrible game to play with a bizarrely great story and you can be very certain I'm not assuming the Yakuza games play like ass.
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
@Synthesis I want you to know I personally and unironically love Deadly Premonition. The story is so bat shit insane and they commit to the Twin Peaks stuff so much, I can’t help but adore that game for all its flaws.
@Synthesis I want you to know I personally and unironically love Deadly Premonition. The story is so bat shit insane and they commit to the Twin Peaks stuff so much, I can’t help but adore that game for all its flaws.
Yes, but do you like Deadly Premonition 2? Eh? Eeehhhh?
(It's entirely possible you do, but that game is as close to the textbook definition of a technical disaster as you can get.)
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Where's my date for the new controller? I need to get one pre-ordered like... yesterday.
Please be before Ragnarok(game or otherwise honestly).
It’s an analogue stick! Full tilt to run! Mario 64 had this down - I’ve never really understood why still have separate run buttons.
The movement in Mario 64, I'd argue, leaves something to be desired. But in any case, modern games allow for a variety of paces in normal walking up to a sort of jog, while a stick click--or whatever the controls are mapped to--is for a full-out sprint that is generally at a fixed speed.
Stealth games with analog movement where the only way to sneak at max speed would be to find the sweet spot on the stick would be an absolute nightmare
Yeah, analog isn't always the answer.
I still remember cringing every time I tried to hold someone up without shooting them in MGS2.
MGS3 was the worst by far for. Some of the maneuvers needed application of The Claw hand configuration; combined with face button pressure sensitivity on lethal attacks, I gave up on captures and whatnot in the first couple hours and just murdered my way through the game.
That walk up the river of the dead was really, really long.
I absolutely hate how the MGS series controls and plays. It's only on the strength of everything else in those games that I'm willing to put up with the controls and gameplay.
I absolutely hate how the MGS series controls and plays. It's only on the strength of everything else in those games that I'm willing to put up with the controls and gameplay.
Indeed. I wasn't really fond of Kojima somehow becoming even more Kojima for The Phantom Pain, and still default to Snake Eater as my favorite game in the franchise, but at least for someone like me, the shift to non-insane controls was desperately needed and overdue. As I recall, MGS4 was a bridge between those two, but I don't remember much from MGS4 (or just don't find it memorable).
I absolutely hate how the MGS series controls and plays. It's only on the strength of everything else in those games that I'm willing to put up with the controls and gameplay.
Indeed. I wasn't really fond of Kojima somehow becoming even more Kojima for The Phantom Pain, and still default to Snake Eater as my favorite game in the franchise, but at least for someone like me, the shift to non-insane controls was desperately needed and overdue. As I recall, MGS4 was a bridge between those two, but I don't remember much from MGS4 (or just don't find it memorable).
I really hope Sony can pull their head out of their ass and fill out the Classics catalog with a shitload more PS2 and PS3 games in the coming months/years, even if only streaming. It'd totally pay for the premium tier just to play the likes of MGS4, the Kessen games, Shadow Hearts, the later Suikodens, et alia...
BlackDragon480 on
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
+2
Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
So Koei Tecmo saw all the praise Ghost of Tsushima got and decided a Japanese studio should try a stab at a similar concept, eh?
Also, I believe we might have seen two different versions of Sakamoto Ryoma during the presentation.
Posts
It's hard to reconcile "we have to raise prices on the consumer even though we are the market leader and no one else is doing that.' and 'we are making more money than ever before'.
Seriously. Gaming is like an absurd bargain of a hobby. You can spend more going out to a dinner or getting drinks than it costs to get a brad new game that will offer tens of hours of some of the best entertainment around.
I'd much rather spend my time being happy about how damn awesome this hobby is than finding every opportunity to gripe about something else.
Edit: that last part i can see could be taken a different way and I have covid brain so I wanna add a note that I really am just trying to mean I prefer taking the route of focusing on enjoyment over negatives on a general sense when it comes to entertainment. This stuff is here to have fun so tahts the part I'm gonna focus on.
It's hard not to see Nintendo as the actual leader right now, having passed PS4 sales and their first-party games have much higher ceilings in terms of sales, while being far cheaper to develop. This idea of Sony as "market leader" seems frankly outdated.
Not to say that Sony isn't overflowing with money and could have taken the hit. But I also can't fault them for raising system prices when they are *still* being scalped and that's not going to change in regions like Japan for years. So you're either handing that money to Sony or a middle-man.
I'm expecting Starfield to be $70, even though it will be day one on gamepass.
That's an interesting wager, and one I'd be willing to take.
On one hand, Microsoft has a minor (and easily ignorable) PR victory, since they've been handed multiple opportunities to point to that small price difference. Granted, it's only a certainty on their first parties, since alienating publishers by forcing them to obey the same guidelines would be disastrous. So they can only really point to the whole "We sell this game once for both generations, at $60; Sony sells it twice, and $70 for the improved version," for first party releases and publishers who actually care to obey those guidelines (and it's not as though that's true in every case on Playstation 5--though all Sony first party releases are $70 for PS5, as far as I know)."
But as it stands, they actually have a successful library subscription model (at least, compared to everyone else who's tried). Sony's restarted theirs after several years of disappointment. Potentially the retail price point matters less to Microsoft; it almost certainly matters to them less than it does to Sony, who has openly stated it won't be bringing first-party launch releases to their subscription library.
Or they might might raise the prices anyway. Third-party publishers have already done it, even if it's not "normal" on Xbox (see The Quarry's separate Xbox One and Xbox Series releases). Microsoft might follow suit with Xbox Game Studio releases. But I think there's a decent chance they won't by Starfield's projected release date (which, to be honest, I'm half expecting to be delayed anyway).
(And in regards to Stabbity's original question: no, there isn't anything to suggest they are, as far as I know. As already speculated, that $10 or whatever additional profit margin is being absorbed by higher costs, or just the increased profit margin per sale. Which considering Sony's answer to Game Pass, isn't surprising.)
My most regular access to a Playstation 5 came courtesy of a former co-worker of mine who transferred to a different office. Unfortunately, the thing that statistically happens to a certain number of consoles happened to his console, and it "died" (in the sense that it would not boot up), with his copy of Elden Ring left in the drive. Naturally, he sent it to Sony in for repair/replacement (I'm pretty sure replacement, in this case, but I don't recall exactly, as that wasn't what we were focused on).
He did get his copy of Elden Ring back (I'm 99% certain of that). Unfortunately, as he expected, he also lost the entirety of all his local save and progress data, because while his wife has a PSN Plus subscription (allowing for online save backups), on the same machine, he did not. And he principally used the console for single-player, progression-centered games (most obviously, singleplayer Elden Ring, but also Death Stranding, and probably two or three other games), whereas Minecraft on Xbox was their primary multiplayer game. So apparently, he lost everything, with no backups, because there hadn't previously been a need to pay a premium for PSN.
Ouch.
That's a little frightening, since my PS4 is pretty much only for one singleplayer game (since I gave up on Gundam Battle Operation online), and if it just decided not to turn on one day, I'd be in the exact same position. And it's not as though either of us could backup our saves on external, removable storage as far as I'm aware (I suppose on the PS4, if it died I could at least remove the physical drive, and hope that it would be accepted without issue on its replacement).
But yes, learn from his mistakes, I suppose.
Which like... yeah, you can say it should obviously be a feature, and it should. But let's be real here. Catastrophic errors don't announce themselves in advance. So you have to be proactive in backing your stuff up.
...Are you?
Backing up is like flossing. You know you should be doing it regularly, but I betcha you're not.
I do floss. I like to imagine it's how I'm in the second half of my thirties, but I've never had a cavity. Not a single one. (strange flex)
But I'm not proactively backing up my saves on console, which is worrying.
Great? Are there people on movie forums defending the increase in popcorn? Defending the increase in ticket prices? Im glad people feel good carrying water for multinationals that literally dont care about you, but that's insane to me.
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
Ya'll need to chill with the "caping" and "carrying water" thing. Its really losing all meaning.
I also don't get up in arms when McDonald's burgers get more expensive. I guess I'm also somehow out here defending them with my last breathe despite the fact that I dont eat there and don't give a shit about them?
Unless the point is everyone should be up in arms and upset about absolutely every single product, hobby and industry increasing in price every single year i dont really get it.
Most of us just really don't care that much because out of all the things increasing in price constantly the one that has somehow gone up the least and still feels like a giant value seems a strange target to focus on.
So I guess to me a price rise on video games after like 25 years of stagnant prices isn’t concerning when my other hobby sees them every couple of years without fail.
Thats not a whine. Its a fact.
Biology doesnt give a shit about your need for more fun or productive light hours!
Imagine thinking this is equivalent to what I said.
This is also a handy list of things that have increased in price by, in some cases, orders of magnitude more than video games have over similar time periods. Eggs, for example, are ten times as expensive as they were 30 years ago. Gas is nearly 5x. Electricity has tripled. Cars are double.
I'm simply pointing out that if you're gonna rage at evil corporations have at it, but maybe getting super pissed about a hobby that has increased in price slower than the rate of inflation is aiming that rage in a weird direction.
Price increases are a fact of life. Just because they happen doesn't mean it's because an industry is out to fuck you. Do I like it? No. Do I think it's understandable? Yes. Is my hobby still worth it? Absolutely.
Steam: adamjnet
It wasn't a comparison of the games, it was a comparison of it being a situation where even if you don't like the gameplay (which I don't know about for Yakuza, I've never played them) you can just go through the main game for the story. And to me, that sounded like a Deadly Premonition situation where you could get the meat of the fun from just watching the cutscenes.
I would never directly offhandedly compare a game I've not played with Deadly Premonition. Deadly Premonition is a terrible game to play with a bizarrely great story and you can be very certain I'm not assuming the Yakuza games play like ass.
Yes, but do you like Deadly Premonition 2? Eh? Eeehhhh?
(It's entirely possible you do, but that game is as close to the textbook definition of a technical disaster as you can get.)
Please be before Ragnarok(game or otherwise honestly).
Does it say "Bad Motherfucker" on it?
~ Buckaroo Banzai
They already have the second best controller out there.
Okay so this one is actually nightmare fuel, but still.
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
God, and I thought those blue and red furry Sonic and Knuckles Xbox Series controllers were horrifying.
I do have that one too! But I just really want to never click another analogue stick again.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
I do those to dash on a lot of 2D games, and it's really annoying.
It’s an analogue stick! Full tilt to run! Mario 64 had this down - I’ve never really understood why still have separate run buttons.
In games with a stamina meter or some other downside to sprinting I'd hate to accidentally start sprinting because I pushed the stick too far.
Sprint buttons make sense for some games. Full tilt to move at the game's default speed.
The movement in Mario 64, I'd argue, leaves something to be desired. But in any case, modern games allow for a variety of paces in normal walking up to a sort of jog, while a stick click--or whatever the controls are mapped to--is for a full-out sprint that is generally at a fixed speed.
I still remember cringing every time I tried to hold someone up without shooting them in MGS2.
MGS3 was the worst by far for. Some of the maneuvers needed application of The Claw hand configuration; combined with face button pressure sensitivity on lethal attacks, I gave up on captures and whatnot in the first couple hours and just murdered my way through the game.
That walk up the river of the dead was really, really long.
Indeed. I wasn't really fond of Kojima somehow becoming even more Kojima for The Phantom Pain, and still default to Snake Eater as my favorite game in the franchise, but at least for someone like me, the shift to non-insane controls was desperately needed and overdue. As I recall, MGS4 was a bridge between those two, but I don't remember much from MGS4 (or just don't find it memorable).
So there's a Nintendo Direct AND and State of Play tomorrow, then an Xbox presentation at the Tokyo Games Show on Thursday. It's like a mini-e3!
I really hope Sony can pull their head out of their ass and fill out the Classics catalog with a shitload more PS2 and PS3 games in the coming months/years, even if only streaming. It'd totally pay for the premium tier just to play the likes of MGS4, the Kessen games, Shadow Hearts, the later Suikodens, et alia...
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Also, I believe we might have seen two different versions of Sakamoto Ryoma during the presentation.