Proving Grounds GM done in first try, thank God I don’t have to do that again.
I actually quite enjoy Proving Grounds, at least with the right team composition. Top tree tether hunter has a lot of leeway.
I think it’s a very fair strike, with much less BS and bugs than other GMs, and if you execute perfectly you’re very unlikely to get screwed by random things. But the boss fight stresses me out, so my perfect number of times doing it per season is 1.
Well mytho is getting nerfed, but a Wishender/Hand Cannon hot swap is about a .5 ttk so it's better than a Vex...
Just saying there's a shitload of good guns to get from PvP. Almost all the trials guns are good to great, Peacebond/Multimach/Occluded Finality/Riiswalker are all top tier PvP guns for Iron Banner, and Frozen Orbit from general PvP is one of the most used snipers in the game
I have each of those, and yes they are fun. Mythoclast just feels like a class of its own. I hope the nerf is PvP only. It SHOULD be a top tier PvE gun, I had one in D1 and loved it, and the commitment required should be rewarded.
Its the crossmode issues that are a drag.
FWIW a VoG clear is 50-60 mins these days with a competent crew, and there’s a bunch of folks in the discord who would be more than happy to have you along if only for a couple of encounters if that’s what you have time for.
The above is true but isn't the least bit relevant to the availability of Mythoclast.
Err, it drops from Atheon which you can do 3 times in about 20-30 mins or faster?
That requires a solid raid group, but sure, you've done it.
You've now got like a 5% chance for a Mythoclast.
Saying the rare Raid exotic is accessible to primarily PvP folks is an extreme overstatement.
As I said, we have regulars in the discord who are happy to run it. Not sure why you’re coming at me for saying that dude.
Because it was in response to Raynaga talking about how Mythoclast, a top tier PvP gun, requires an extreme amount of luck/commitment to PvE activity. Which is pretty true.
You may be focusing on their talking about how they have trouble finding the time for raiding and emphasizing it only takes 20-30 minutes with a group to run Aetheon. Which is true.
I'm focusing on the fact that won't get you a Mythoclast. It is roughly akin to telling somebody who needs $10,000 next week to go put all their cash on a roulette square.
So the moral of the story is to not even try? Gotcha. Took me 48 runs to get mine, and have seen folks get it on their first ever clear. To come down so hard on what I thought was a reasonable way for someone who's under significant time constraints to have a crack at getting one (and tbh all the other gear from VoG) is a bit out of line imo.
To be clear, even assuming an average of 30 minutes per kill (which is generous), this works out to more than 24 hours of playtime continuously grinding VoG. And even then it's not guaranteed, as plenty of people have far more completions than this. Treating this as just an obviously reasonable thing for a player without an interest in raiding to go do is pretty tone-deaf, and it's an insane way to gate a meta-defining PvP weapon.
Well mytho is getting nerfed, but a Wishender/Hand Cannon hot swap is about a .5 ttk so it's better than a Vex...
Just saying there's a shitload of good guns to get from PvP. Almost all the trials guns are good to great, Peacebond/Multimach/Occluded Finality/Riiswalker are all top tier PvP guns for Iron Banner, and Frozen Orbit from general PvP is one of the most used snipers in the game
I have each of those, and yes they are fun. Mythoclast just feels like a class of its own. I hope the nerf is PvP only. It SHOULD be a top tier PvE gun, I had one in D1 and loved it, and the commitment required should be rewarded.
Its the crossmode issues that are a drag.
FWIW a VoG clear is 50-60 mins these days with a competent crew, and there’s a bunch of folks in the discord who would be more than happy to have you along if only for a couple of encounters if that’s what you have time for.
The above is true but isn't the least bit relevant to the availability of Mythoclast.
Err, it drops from Atheon which you can do 3 times in about 20-30 mins or faster?
That requires a solid raid group, but sure, you've done it.
You've now got like a 5% chance for a Mythoclast.
Saying the rare Raid exotic is accessible to primarily PvP folks is an extreme overstatement.
As I said, we have regulars in the discord who are happy to run it. Not sure why you’re coming at me for saying that dude.
Because it was in response to Raynaga talking about how Mythoclast, a top tier PvP gun, requires an extreme amount of luck/commitment to PvE activity. Which is pretty true.
You may be focusing on their talking about how they have trouble finding the time for raiding and emphasizing it only takes 20-30 minutes with a group to run Aetheon. Which is true.
I'm focusing on the fact that won't get you a Mythoclast. It is roughly akin to telling somebody who needs $10,000 next week to go put all their cash on a roulette square.
So the moral of the story is to not even try? Gotcha. Took me 48 runs to get mine, and have seen folks get it on their first ever clear. To come down so hard on what I thought was a reasonable way for someone who's under significant time constraints to have a crack at getting one (and tbh all the other gear from VoG) is a bit out of line imo.
To be clear, even assuming an average of 30 minutes per kill (which is generous), this works out to more than 24 hours of playtime continuously grinding VoG. And even then it's not guaranteed, as plenty of people have far more completions than this. Treating this as just an obviously reasonable thing for a player without an interest in raiding to go do is pretty tone-deaf, and it's an insane way to gate a meta-defining PvP weapon.
While I agree with all of this, honestly, I wasn't trying to start anything.
Finally managed to get the Shinobu build with 100 discipline, 100 mobility, 100 recovery.
But please don't breathe on me, I'm very fragile.
I really liked the suggestion I saw on Reddit the other day that either master worked class items or exotics should give +4 instead of +2 to all stats so you never end up with lower than tier 2 in any stat.
we spent a couple hours trying to do proving grounds and couldn't get through tank room.
My friends andI were able to get through the vehicle bay once (and then tragically wiped on the Boss with like 25% HP remaining), but it felt really hairy. This is my first GM Nightfall, and the damage scaling is wild; I'm getting absolutely blown up inside my Well of Radiance, sometimes even with Protective Light active. My other two friends played Banner Shield Titans, and I essentially ended up using my Well just to feed them more Orbs whenever they couldn't quite chain their Supers together and needed a little more energy.
Any tips on getting cleanly through the vehicle bay would be greatly appreciated. I watched a video where two Warlocks just tore the room a new asshole with double Chaos Reach, but I cast imagine how I'd stay alive to do that lol.
Yeah, the "hide under the middle" strat was touted back during Chosen when the strike first dropped and a lot of people found it not near as good as claimed then as well.
I think picking the left or right mini-wall is still a better plan most of the time.
Don't huge the wall though. Stand a bit back from it to avoid splash damage sneaking under the gap at the bottom.
Giving away a Transgender Awareness Week emblem with code ML3-FD4-ND9
And finally an auto-fire mod for Legendary Hand Cannons, Sidearms, Scout Rifles and Pulse Rifles in the 30th anniversary patch, as a place holder, settings option for it coming after Witch Queen
The Mythoclast change is good, the quick access sling change is good, the pulse monitor and adrenaline junkie changes are good, what a good TW@B that was.
Weapon differentiation — if I have two Void adaptive Hand Cannons, one from the Suros foundry, and one from the latest raid, why do I care about one more than the other? The stats tend to be fairly close. Perk pools can be different, but there are only so many perks, and it's a stretch to say the perk pool gives the weapon its identity. We've got something shipping on all new and reissued weapons in The Witch Queen that addresses this issue directly and are working to expand the same solution to all weapons that drop in the future.
Weapon differentiation — if I have two Void adaptive Hand Cannons, one from the Suros foundry, and one from the latest raid, why do I care about one more than the other? The stats tend to be fairly close. Perk pools can be different, but there are only so many perks, and it's a stretch to say the perk pool gives the weapon its identity. We've got something shipping on all new and reissued weapons in The Witch Queen that addresses this issue directly and are working to expand the same solution to all weapons that drop in the future.
Vague and ominous.
I wonder if this is related to the crafting system.
Lots of nice buffs. The exotic buffs hopefully really help those weapons. Cryosthesia 77K and DARCI were desperately in need of something and hopefully this makes them usable.
I'm still unsure if the changes to LFRs are gonna help after this season is over. And normal fusions are definitely gonna go back in the vault for the most part.
Vorpal weapon buff on primaries is good and with champ mods I think is gonna be big. The nerf I don't get but it's going to really change the heavy weapon meta imo. Vorpal is just now strictly worse then other options on most weapons.
Whirlwind blade change I think is not gonna do anything except make swords worse. Which is fine I guess.
The Slug Shotgun nerf I don't get. Seems completely unnecessary and will not make pellet shotguns more desirable.
Quick Access Sling nerf is potentially painful and seems unnecessary to me.
Overall not as bad as I thought. I didn't even know Lorentz granted ability juice, lmao
+2
Options
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
Arbalest getting anti-barrier is nice (and also an obvious thing that should have been there at the start), but how about a fucking anti-overload exotic that isn't locked behind a quest inside a raid?
Also a bit sad they didn't say anything about Chaperone, it's ruling both 6s and 3s right now
They mentioned it briefly.
We're adjusting some Exotics, some that consistently top the PvP usage charts in an oppressive way, some that had their perks limited to a degree that's no longer warranted. (We’re looking at you, Chaperone...)
Also I did some brief testing on a Archer's Tempo/Adagio Wolftone Draw.
The short answer is that Archer's Tempo does not negate the drawtime slow Adagio imposes. How exactly they interact I'm not sure but they definitely don't cancel one another out. Which sucks and makes Adagio even worse.
So this week's GM required a higher damage Stronghold build. Stasis was OK, but champions did too much damage for glacier to actually block anything and the big add phases required more damage and a super that you could actually, y'know, use. This worked great for Proving Grounds and will probably work elsewhere too. Less durability, less utility, more damage, more healing.
Stronghold Variant:
Any kinetic (scout or bow recommended, long range for picking off adds). A good sniper is an option if you want to run an energy bow for overloads.
Fusion energy recommended for unstoppable, bow for overloads.
Lament for your Heavy & Exotic.
Right off the bat, Lament with Stronghold is about 1/2 the effective health that Crown-Splitter gives you. You take more damage while blocking and it sucks, it is a big difference. Keep that in mind, because the advantages are worth it but you can't eat quite as much damage as a Stasis / Crown build.
You'll use whatever primary you have for champion poking and add clear. You have some special weapon options depending on your team loadout, including fusions for the unstoppable mod. A vorpal fusion is still great damage from cover, blinding grenades are always useful, and you can run a good sniper for damage and long range add clear.
Armor and class wise, you'll be running bottom-tree Sunbreaker. This means, unlike Behemoth, you actually have a super and you have some nice elemental well and add clear options. Your super is not great for dealing big damage and probably isn't going to contribute much to killing champions, but it can be great for dealing with swarms of mooks so your team can focus on high priority targets. For Proving Grounds, use your super to kill regular cabal adds so they can't pepper your team with grenades. This makes you more durable too, as you heal on kills with solar abilities and your super.
Thermite grenade is your best pick because it does a ton of damage over time and lets you turn weak enemies into semi-predictable sunspots. Once you get a sunspot going, you can use stronghold to press it and let enemies walk into it while you create more sunspots. Great for killing swarms of weak melee enemies or killing enemies in tight hallways. You won't use your melee much in a GM, but the dot it applies on an enemy will create a sunspot if they die while it is active, so you can use it against weak enemies or stunned champions at close range to guarantee a free sunspot. Just don't get killed going for a single sunspot, they're not that good.
The armor mods are where the build really comes together and differentiate it from Behemoth. You'll still run Elemental Charge for free Charged with Light and Lucent Blade for the big damage buff. Lament has great burst damage so Lucent Blade pairs with it perfectly. That leaves you three slots for elemental mods. Since your super is good enough to use we won't be using a finisher mod. Fill up your other slots with Elemental Ordnance, Well of Life, and Font of Might.
Ordnance makes your grenade kills generate elemental wells matching your subclass element. This will be your primary way of generating solar wells, and you'll want to get used to finishing enemies off with your grenade to generate sunspots and wells. This build is a bit well / charge starved compared to Behemoth, so teammates generating elemental wells will be a huge help.
Well of Life is, well, life. Solar wells give you uninterrupted healing over ten seconds, which is incredibly useful when running Stronghold. This takes the place of the old overshield finisher to help keep you alive in the middle of a fight, and it lasts long enough that you can nab a well before going into a risky position.
Font of Might gives you a 25% weapon damage buff for matching elements. That, combined with Lucent Blade (they stack) is a huge damage buff to Lament (solar subclass, solar weapon). You'll be able to take champions from near-full to near-dead in a single Lament combo, and the sword's high native ammo count and attack efficiency lets you use it for combat pretty aggressively.
If your team can't generate wells you might want to swap out Font of Might for another mod. We don't really need arc mods but Overcharge Wellmaker is free wells for free charged with light, a good pick if you're stuck with an arc armor slot. Shieldcrash and Elemental Light are other good picks for wells on shield break and wells on super cast.
A bit surprised that we didn't hear some cheers about the Heir Apparent nerf.
I love the idea that it was apparently just a random-ass bug that made it so powerful in PVP.
I'm going to have to grind out Legend in Comp before it gets removed.
I'll be a touch sad that it's absurd dominance in 3's is going to go away, but it's definitely busted. Still, I prefer there being some cost/benefit to running a Heavy exotic instead of just more Chappy/Lorentz/Ace/Crimson/whatever.
Yay, maxed out Glory for my first time! I usually give up around 4700, but abused Heir Apparent the rest of the way. But feels nice to finally commit to it, and Freelancing was also a nice challenge. Good times.
I literally got up an hour early to run essentially one card (we had one false start loss and wipe) before running to work. Made it just under the wire!
Posts
Getting to 1320 1330 is going to be rough.
Do you mean powerfuls? 1320 is the powerful cap this season. The pinnacle cap is 1330.
Though if you're ever going to hit cap without heavy raiding this is the season to do it with the extended length.
What's 10 levels anyway? Should be easy right? haha
I actually quite enjoy Proving Grounds, at least with the right team composition. Top tree tether hunter has a lot of leeway.
I think it’s a very fair strike, with much less BS and bugs than other GMs, and if you execute perfectly you’re very unlikely to get screwed by random things. But the boss fight stresses me out, so my perfect number of times doing it per season is 1.
To be clear, even assuming an average of 30 minutes per kill (which is generous), this works out to more than 24 hours of playtime continuously grinding VoG. And even then it's not guaranteed, as plenty of people have far more completions than this. Treating this as just an obviously reasonable thing for a player without an interest in raiding to go do is pretty tone-deaf, and it's an insane way to gate a meta-defining PvP weapon.
But please don't breathe on me, I'm very fragile.
While I agree with all of this, honestly, I wasn't trying to start anything.
Sorry guys.
I really liked the suggestion I saw on Reddit the other day that either master worked class items or exotics should give +4 instead of +2 to all stats so you never end up with lower than tier 2 in any stat.
Because it really sucks to get 18-19 in resil
54 Aetheon kills on the wall, 54 aetheon calls on the wall and no mythoclast.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
My friends andI were able to get through the vehicle bay once (and then tragically wiped on the Boss with like 25% HP remaining), but it felt really hairy. This is my first GM Nightfall, and the damage scaling is wild; I'm getting absolutely blown up inside my Well of Radiance, sometimes even with Protective Light active. My other two friends played Banner Shield Titans, and I essentially ended up using my Well just to feed them more Orbs whenever they couldn't quite chain their Supers together and needed a little more energy.
Any tips on getting cleanly through the vehicle bay would be greatly appreciated. I watched a video where two Warlocks just tore the room a new asshole with double Chaos Reach, but I cast imagine how I'd stay alive to do that lol.
I think picking the left or right mini-wall is still a better plan most of the time.
Don't huge the wall though. Stand a bit back from it to avoid splash damage sneaking under the gap at the bottom.
Giving away a Transgender Awareness Week emblem with code ML3-FD4-ND9
And finally an auto-fire mod for Legendary Hand Cannons, Sidearms, Scout Rifles and Pulse Rifles in the 30th anniversary patch, as a place holder, settings option for it coming after Witch Queen
Vague and ominous.
I wonder if this is related to the crafting system.
I'm still unsure if the changes to LFRs are gonna help after this season is over. And normal fusions are definitely gonna go back in the vault for the most part.
Vorpal weapon buff on primaries is good and with champ mods I think is gonna be big. The nerf I don't get but it's going to really change the heavy weapon meta imo. Vorpal is just now strictly worse then other options on most weapons.
Whirlwind blade change I think is not gonna do anything except make swords worse. Which is fine I guess.
The Slug Shotgun nerf I don't get. Seems completely unnecessary and will not make pellet shotguns more desirable.
Quick Access Sling nerf is potentially painful and seems unnecessary to me.
They mentioned it briefly.
The short answer is that Archer's Tempo does not negate the drawtime slow Adagio imposes. How exactly they interact I'm not sure but they definitely don't cancel one another out. Which sucks and makes Adagio even worse.
There’s a guy in my clan who does that and yells “the body shot warrior!” every time he has it activated and is hunting for body shot kills.
Stronghold Variant:
Right off the bat, Lament with Stronghold is about 1/2 the effective health that Crown-Splitter gives you. You take more damage while blocking and it sucks, it is a big difference. Keep that in mind, because the advantages are worth it but you can't eat quite as much damage as a Stasis / Crown build.
You'll use whatever primary you have for champion poking and add clear. You have some special weapon options depending on your team loadout, including fusions for the unstoppable mod. A vorpal fusion is still great damage from cover, blinding grenades are always useful, and you can run a good sniper for damage and long range add clear.
Armor and class wise, you'll be running bottom-tree Sunbreaker. This means, unlike Behemoth, you actually have a super and you have some nice elemental well and add clear options. Your super is not great for dealing big damage and probably isn't going to contribute much to killing champions, but it can be great for dealing with swarms of mooks so your team can focus on high priority targets. For Proving Grounds, use your super to kill regular cabal adds so they can't pepper your team with grenades. This makes you more durable too, as you heal on kills with solar abilities and your super.
Thermite grenade is your best pick because it does a ton of damage over time and lets you turn weak enemies into semi-predictable sunspots. Once you get a sunspot going, you can use stronghold to press it and let enemies walk into it while you create more sunspots. Great for killing swarms of weak melee enemies or killing enemies in tight hallways. You won't use your melee much in a GM, but the dot it applies on an enemy will create a sunspot if they die while it is active, so you can use it against weak enemies or stunned champions at close range to guarantee a free sunspot. Just don't get killed going for a single sunspot, they're not that good.
The armor mods are where the build really comes together and differentiate it from Behemoth. You'll still run Elemental Charge for free Charged with Light and Lucent Blade for the big damage buff. Lament has great burst damage so Lucent Blade pairs with it perfectly. That leaves you three slots for elemental mods. Since your super is good enough to use we won't be using a finisher mod. Fill up your other slots with Elemental Ordnance, Well of Life, and Font of Might.
Ordnance makes your grenade kills generate elemental wells matching your subclass element. This will be your primary way of generating solar wells, and you'll want to get used to finishing enemies off with your grenade to generate sunspots and wells. This build is a bit well / charge starved compared to Behemoth, so teammates generating elemental wells will be a huge help.
Well of Life is, well, life. Solar wells give you uninterrupted healing over ten seconds, which is incredibly useful when running Stronghold. This takes the place of the old overshield finisher to help keep you alive in the middle of a fight, and it lasts long enough that you can nab a well before going into a risky position.
Font of Might gives you a 25% weapon damage buff for matching elements. That, combined with Lucent Blade (they stack) is a huge damage buff to Lament (solar subclass, solar weapon). You'll be able to take champions from near-full to near-dead in a single Lament combo, and the sword's high native ammo count and attack efficiency lets you use it for combat pretty aggressively.
If your team can't generate wells you might want to swap out Font of Might for another mod. We don't really need arc mods but Overcharge Wellmaker is free wells for free charged with light, a good pick if you're stuck with an arc armor slot. Shieldcrash and Elemental Light are other good picks for wells on shield break and wells on super cast.
I love the idea that it was apparently just a random-ass bug that made it so powerful in PVP.
I'm going to have to grind out Legend in Comp before it gets removed.
I'll be a touch sad that it's absurd dominance in 3's is going to go away, but it's definitely busted. Still, I prefer there being some cost/benefit to running a Heavy exotic instead of just more Chappy/Lorentz/Ace/Crimson/whatever.
multiple games where my team has totaled less than 3 kills.
what a great mode bungie has created here.
It's apex PvP. I'm not really sure what people expect? If you go in solo, you better be a killer. If you're not group up with non-randos.