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Penny Arcade - Comic

124

Posts

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited October 19
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    seanscythe wrote: »
    So called "natural immunity*" is not flatly better than vaccine acquired immunity. If your doctor is telling you that is the case, they are a bad doctor. It can be better. It can also be worse.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-vaccination-why-everyone-should-get-a-covid-19-shot/
    Due to the way the immune system works, by randomly generating differently shaped antibodies until it finds something that sticks, the immune response to a COVID infection can end up targeting parts of the virus that are good enough to fight off the current infection, but might not be strong enough to fight it off before it takes hold the next time, or might miss it entirely if the component in question mutated. The mRNA vaccines target the Spike protein specifically, which in addition to being the most notable feature of a coronavirus (being the corona part of the name) is also less likely to mutate without rendering the virus unable to infect cells.
    Finally people who have had a past infection are generally even better protected if they also get the vaccine, since it potentially gives the immune system more different ways to target the virus.

    I work for a healthcare company with dozens of hospitals and dozens more ambulatory clinics across several states. Our infectious disease response and research teams actually studied the data and mandated vaccination for all employees including those with a previous infection.

    Other than the very very small percentage of people with legitimate medical reasons that none of the different vaccines can be safely taken, there is literally no reason not to get vaccinated. It is safe, effective, and free.

    *Vaccine acquired immunity is also natural. It just uses things other than the actual real virus to trigger the immune response and train the immune system.

    Plenty of people fully vaxed are dying look at Powell and others.

    Didn't Colin Powell have cancer and Parkinsons? I don't know if it matters that you are vaccinated if your immune system is DOA anyways

    White blood cell cancer. Besides, it's not like the vaccine is 100%- none are. It "only" gives you a 95% chance not to catch and a 99.etc% chance not to die on average. People go through those small %s when enough are exposed.

    Phoenix-D on
    dennisH3KnucklespainfulPleasanceMan in the MistsDjiem
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    A common tactic of regressive types, to push back against any and all progress they don't like, is to pretend that anything that isn't 100% effective, immediately and in perpetuity, is somehow worse than doing nothing at all.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited October 19
    Dirty wrote: »
    A common tactic of regressive types, to push back against any and all progress they don't like, is to pretend that anything that isn't 100% effective, immediately and in perpetuity, is somehow worse than doing nothing at all.

    Correct. Meanwhile locally to PAX, actual stats:
    https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

    Unvaccinated in King County are overall 9x more likely to catch COVID, 48x more likely to need hospital care, and 69x more likely to die. (as of writing, numbers are updated weekly; they're always about that bad for the unvaccinated)

    edit: fixed the % derp, as yes these are all times more likely not %

    Phoenix-D on
    dennisH3KnucklesDjiemAegeriJaysonFour
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Dirty wrote: »
    A common tactic of regressive types, to push back against any and all progress they don't like, is to pretend that anything that isn't 100% effective, immediately and in perpetuity, is somehow worse than doing nothing at all.

    Correct. Meanwhile locally to PAX, actual stats:
    https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

    Unvaccinated in King County are overall 9% more likely to catch COVID, 48x more likely to need hospital care, and 69% more likely to die. (as of writing, numbers are updated weekly; they're always about that bad for the unvaccinated)

    All of those are times worse, not percentages. So even more of a gap

    dennisH3Knuckles
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    A common tactic of regressive types, to push back against any and all progress they don't like, is to pretend that anything that isn't 100% effective, immediately and in perpetuity, is somehow worse than doing nothing at all.

    Makes playing Xcom a fucking chore

    "80% chance to hit? Screw that, I'm going point blank"

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    dennisH3KnucklesRingoAegeri
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    seanscythe wrote: »
    So called "natural immunity*" is not flatly better than vaccine acquired immunity. If your doctor is telling you that is the case, they are a bad doctor. It can be better. It can also be worse.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-vaccination-why-everyone-should-get-a-covid-19-shot/
    Due to the way the immune system works, by randomly generating differently shaped antibodies until it finds something that sticks, the immune response to a COVID infection can end up targeting parts of the virus that are good enough to fight off the current infection, but might not be strong enough to fight it off before it takes hold the next time, or might miss it entirely if the component in question mutated. The mRNA vaccines target the Spike protein specifically, which in addition to being the most notable feature of a coronavirus (being the corona part of the name) is also less likely to mutate without rendering the virus unable to infect cells.
    Finally people who have had a past infection are generally even better protected if they also get the vaccine, since it potentially gives the immune system more different ways to target the virus.

    I work for a healthcare company with dozens of hospitals and dozens more ambulatory clinics across several states. Our infectious disease response and research teams actually studied the data and mandated vaccination for all employees including those with a previous infection.

    Other than the very very small percentage of people with legitimate medical reasons that none of the different vaccines can be safely taken, there is literally no reason not to get vaccinated. It is safe, effective, and free.

    *Vaccine acquired immunity is also natural. It just uses things other than the actual real virus to trigger the immune response and train the immune system.

    Plenty of people fully vaxed are dying look at Powell and others.

    Didn't Colin Powell have cancer and Parkinsons? I don't know if it matters that you are vaccinated if your immune system is DOA anyways

    Colin Powell had Multiple Myeloma, from what I've read. Which means that likely he wasn't able to mount any sort of decent immune response, as the cancer was affecting his bone marrow.

    Di87pOF.jpg
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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission
    The experience that I and all of my friends and family have had ranged from being woozy for a couple of hours to having to sleep off fatigue for a day, with vaccination (with the second shot usually having slightly worse side effects). It wasn't bad at all. I've yet to run into someone who had horrible side effects among all of my friends and family. *shrugs* Of course, bad reactions happen, sure, but I've yet to run into them. The percent chance of having a catastrophic reaction to the vaccine is orders of magnitude less than having a catastrophic symptom of being infected with COVID-19.

    No one is making any of the straw men assumptions that you have listed, either. So be a little less aggressive in your argument, maybe?

    Di87pOF.jpg
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    dennisH3KnucklesYoungFreyAegeriKayne Red Robe
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

    You don’t get sick from the vaccine. You maybe feel crappy for a day and then you’re back to life as usual with the added peace of mind that you’ve done a good thing for yourself and the people around you.

    dennisRhesus PositiveMoridin889YoungFreyMan in the MistsMrVyngaardDjiemAegeri
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    By not getting vaccinated you're making the choice to load the dice. So you're right back at commission.

    Andy JoedennisH3KnucklespainfulPleasanceMan in the MistsDjiemAegeri
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

    That's nice. 15% of the county I live in have had COVID. Almost 0.2% of the population of has died of COVID. That doesn't sound like a big percentage, but consider that it means 1 in every 500 people. That's roughly the death rate across the country.
    Alabama actually had negative population growth last year due to COVID.

    steam_sig.png
    dennisH3KnucklesYoungFreyMan in the MistsDjiemAegeriKayne Red Robe
  • doompookydoompooky Wild (Let's Draw A) Horses Couldn't Drag Me AwayRegistered User regular
    Okay, for real. There's an edit button. I get it that some people can't be bothered to do the bare minimum that society asks and not be a plague carrier, but there is no excuse to keep posting multiple comments in a row. You can be whatever kind of goose you want, but this forum has standards. vcfne5evg2ga.png

    we7ek91hy97o.png
    kimeBloodySlothdennisMan in the MistsZilla360DjiemAegeriJaysonFour
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    Seeing as the symptoms show about two weeks after initial infection, and that asymptomatic carriers exist, yes, it is extremely likely.

    Furthermore, you're not just "being unlucky", you are also potentially spreading it to others, as every carrier, especially those with antibodies, bring with them the chance of spreading the most resistant viral agents, which is how new variants like Delta and Mu occur in the first place. Meaning that with every new carrier brings with it a roll of the genetic dice and sooner or later a stronger variant will occur.

    Unless, you know, you be responsible, get the vaccine to minimize infection chances, socially distance when possible to limit contact, and wear a mask when around other people outside of your household to further safeguard against spread.

    The virus doesn't care about your feelings.

    Furthermore as said above, getting the shot doesn't make you sick. Your arm might hurt, and you might feel exhaustion for a day or two, but that's fine and outright normal, because your body's immune system is effectively being overclocked.

    https://xkcd.com/2425/

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    dennisMoridin889Djiem
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    seanscythe wrote: »
    So called "natural immunity*" is not flatly better than vaccine acquired immunity. If your doctor is telling you that is the case, they are a bad doctor. It can be better. It can also be worse.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-vaccination-why-everyone-should-get-a-covid-19-shot/
    Due to the way the immune system works, by randomly generating differently shaped antibodies until it finds something that sticks, the immune response to a COVID infection can end up targeting parts of the virus that are good enough to fight off the current infection, but might not be strong enough to fight it off before it takes hold the next time, or might miss it entirely if the component in question mutated. The mRNA vaccines target the Spike protein specifically, which in addition to being the most notable feature of a coronavirus (being the corona part of the name) is also less likely to mutate without rendering the virus unable to infect cells.
    Finally people who have had a past infection are generally even better protected if they also get the vaccine, since it potentially gives the immune system more different ways to target the virus.

    I work for a healthcare company with dozens of hospitals and dozens more ambulatory clinics across several states. Our infectious disease response and research teams actually studied the data and mandated vaccination for all employees including those with a previous infection.

    Other than the very very small percentage of people with legitimate medical reasons that none of the different vaccines can be safely taken, there is literally no reason not to get vaccinated. It is safe, effective, and free.

    *Vaccine acquired immunity is also natural. It just uses things other than the actual real virus to trigger the immune response and train the immune system.

    Plenty of people fully vaxed are dying look at Powell and others.

    Didn't Colin Powell have cancer and Parkinsons? I don't know if it matters that you are vaccinated if your immune system is DOA anyways

    Colin Powell had Multiple Myeloma, from what I've read. Which means that likely he wasn't able to mount any sort of decent immune response, as the cancer was affecting his bone marrow.

    I said it elsewhere, but if Powell had died without getting the vaccine (or before the vaccine had been invented), the same people shrieking about how the vaccine didn't keep him alive would be shrieking about comorbidities, the "but what was she wearing" of covid-deniers

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    H3KnucklespainfulPleasanceKaitensatsumaTofystedethPreacherkimeMan in the MistsHahnsoo1Centipede DamascusMoridin889BillieVeeDjiemJaysonFourPyrian
  • KaitensatsumaKaitensatsuma Registered User regular
    I said it elsewhere, but if Powell had died without getting the vaccine (or before the vaccine had been invented), the same people shrieking about how the vaccine didn't keep him alive would be shrieking about comorbidities, the "but what was she wearing" of covid-deniers

    Too bad there isn't a "Sad" react in the forum, because that's very much how things look on the face of things.

    "The Virus isn't effecting children, why do they need to get vaccinated?!"
    - Virus starts infecting and in some cases killing children
    "Well, they were FAT children, WHAT ABOUT THE COMORBIDITIES??"

    BloodySlothdennisMan in the MistsHahnsoo1Centipede DamascusH3KnucklesMoridin889DjiemAegeriJaysonFour
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Reminder that the same people bellowing that the government should focus on national health guidelines instead of vaccines are the same people that, a decade ago, called Michelle Obama "Moochelle" for...pushing to make school lunches healthier.

    YL9WnCY.png
    TofystedethdennisPreacherkimeSmrtnikMan in the MistsHahnsoo1H3KnucklesMoridin889No-QuarterDjiemAegeriJaysonFour
  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    Reminder that the same people bellowing that the government should focus on national health guidelines instead of vaccines are the same people that, a decade ago, called Michelle Obama "Moochelle" for...pushing to make school lunches healthier.

    My kid's public school lunch menu for the next week:
    Monday: Cheeseburger
    Tuesday: Asian Sesame Chicken Wrap
    Wednesday: Creamy Mac & Cheese
    Thursday: Chicken Tenders & Waffle
    Friday: Pizza

  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    edited October 20
    Sterica wrote: »
    Reminder that the same people bellowing that the government should focus on national health guidelines instead of vaccines are the same people that, a decade ago, called Michelle Obama "Moochelle" for...pushing to make school lunches healthier.

    Not to mention getting pissy when national health guidelines were used... a year and a half ago.

    OctoberRaven on
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    PreacherH3KnucklesDjiemJaysonFour
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

    I actually like this example. In fact, I think it's a great example of how to juggle personal responsibility with whether or not to get the vaccine.

    I'm big on personal freedom; I don't care what someone does with their own body. If someone wants to never get the vaccine and take precautions to ensure they don't spread Covid to others - like never leaving their house without self quarantining for two weeks between trips - then I'm fine with that. At that point their decision is, at worst, just going to get themselves killed (well, in your case also potentially your parents, but maybe they're okay with that).

    Most people opposed to the vaccine I see are also of the "I shouldn't have to get the vaccine, and I should be able to go out to dine in restaurants without a mask, ride the bus, and go to town hall meetings to yell loudly about how I'm being oppressed!" I am generally of the opinion that if those people infect someone else with Covid they are morally, if not legally, guilty of murder - or at least depraved indifference. Depraved indifference is such a wonderful term for that sort of thing, isn't it?

    The main reason I got a vaccine and wear a mask in public isn't my own health (though that's definitely a part of it), it's because I stress out about the possibility that I'll be walking down the aisle in the grocery store, pass a nice old lady, cough, and then she dies of Covid because of me, even if I recover just fine.

    Bremen on
  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    Bremen wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

    I actually like this example. In fact, I think it's a great example of how to juggle personal responsibility with whether or not to get the vaccine.

    Yeah, but you're getting an inaccurate picture of what the poster has elsewhere posted. They "hope this trend of requiring a vax to go places dies soon." And not in a "gee, won't it be great when this pandemic is over, and we won't have to require things like this" kind of way. They feel there are "some completely normal people who agree with said guy." There hope is that are "more people who say hey I don’t need the vax, [so] the harder this group is to ignore".

    They want to not get vaccinated and then be able to roam at will. Fuck everyone else.

    Which makes about as much sense as saying you should be able to burn tires on your property, because it's your property. And hopefully more people will stand up for private property tire burning so they'll be harder to ignore.

    dennis on
    Smrtnik
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    dennis wrote: »
    Bremen wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Otoh, y’all assuming that if I leave my parents’ basement I’ll definitely get covid (less than 1% in my city have got it since the delta surge) and that I’ll definitely spread it to someone before I notice that I have symptoms

    If I get sick from the vax, I did it to myself. If I get covid, I was just unlucky. Commission and omission

    I actually like this example. In fact, I think it's a great example of how to juggle personal responsibility with whether or not to get the vaccine.

    Yeah, but you're getting an inaccurate picture of what the poster has elsewhere posted. They "hope this trend of requiring a vax to go places dies soon." And not in a "gee, won't it be great when this pandemic is over, and we won't have to require things like this" kind of way. They feel there are "some completely normal people who agree with said guy." There hope is that are "more people who say hey I don’t need the vax, [so] the harder this group is to ignore".

    They want to not get vaccinated and then be able to roam at will. Fuck everyone else.

    Which makes about as much sense as saying you should be able to burn tires on your property, because it's your property. And hopefully more people will stand up for private property tire burning so they'll be harder to ignore.

    That was kind of my point - the claim that people should be free to do whatever they want is predicated on using that freedom responsibly. Children aren't free to do whatever they want, because society doesn't expect them to be responsible. If someone is willing to take responsibility for being unvaccinated - by taking the rather extreme steps necessary to prevent spreading Covid - then I don't have a problem with them remaining unvaccinated. But we all know practically no one is.

    There was a story awhile back of an unvaccinated family that went on a vacation and got Covid, and I believe the father died. My takeaway from that wasn't that they were unvaccinated - according to the story they had decided to wait a little longer just to make sure it was safe - it was they went on vacation. If they wanted to wait on the shot to make extra sure it was safe, well, I can understand that even if I don't agree with it, but by going on vacation - thus greatly increasing both their exposure and those around them - they were refusing to take responsibility for that choice. They should have either postponed/cancelled their vacation or gotten the shot first.

    Bremen on
    Man in the Mists
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Also, it really says a lot that anti-vaxxers are talking about how "iTs My ChOiCe" when complaining about the fact that people like Jerry and Mike are making the choice to not be around them.

    See also: "We shouldn't be forced to do business with horrible LBGT people and making us do it is unconstitutional"

    Closely followed by "Almost as unconstitutional as people not wanting to do business with us violent Qanonomorons!"

    Man in the MistsH3KnucklesPreacherYoungFreyDjiemAegeriJaysonFourCentipede Damascus
  • PALaxxPALaxx Registered User regular
    edited October 23
    PALaxx wrote: »
    If your precious vax worked, you would have nothing to worry about. Why do you care if Joe Shmoe over there didn't get the poke if you did?

    In brief, breakthrough infections, mutations, and also any sort of empathic concern for broader society when it is unable to reach herd immunity.
    That's supposed to be yet another layer of protection, according to Saint Fauci right? Well, I mean, now it is according to him -- when this all started, he said masks didn't do anything but you know, whatever.

    You mean in the interview where he said 'masks are important for someone who is infected to stop them from infecting someone else'?
    If you're vax'd and mask'd, you should have nothing to fear from Joe Shmoe. But sure, pretend him being "vulnerable" somehow means you are, too. It's fun to watch.

    Nobody in this thread I can see is expressing fear for their own wellbeing, nor in Jerry's post. I know a lot of people like to persoanlize every aspect of these things, but honestly a lot of people think thousands of preventible deaths isn't a good thing and it's worth making the small effort to help prevent that.

    Mutations occurred because of the "vaccine." The virus was already 98+% survivable and the only people at risk are the same people who are *always* at risk: the elderly and those with comorbidities. Only 6% of the listed number is due to Covid alone, and the sheer hilarity that *this* virus is somehow deadly and required the entire economy to come crashing to a halt to deal with is absurd. Plus, because of how viruses operate, mutations that increase infection rate tend to *decrease* morbidity rate. Those nasty, dirty, new strains that the overreaction created are even less threatening than the original and the original wasn't threatening in the first place. Once it was clear herd immunity was impossible, it was time to shift to treatment and not prevention, but you can't politicize treatments that already exist, can you? To make matters worse, this is a first-of-its-kind vaccine that was rushed out the door in 6 months, modifies your cells directly, complications are already rampant, and they're already declaring the need for boosters every 4-6 months. Sorry, but I'm not interested in being a guinea pig just because someone in the government, who aren't following their own demands on the public in the first place, says it's mandated. Mandates aren't laws. At least other vaccines have a long, proven track record to be effective. All we know about this one is that it modifies the affected cells, doesn't actually prevent you from getting or spreading the virus, becomes almost worthless 4 months in, and has debilitating side-effects, including death, at a rate that should be alarming.

    And if you think a cloth mask which has holes the size of the grand canyon as far as a microscopic virus is concerned is going to do anything, you're more nuts than I thought. Tell me, how is a mask with no filter supposed to screen anything? You do know the thing was confirmed to be airborne, yes? Or are you going to bring up "the droplets" in which no significant amount of virus is contained? Those surgical masks they sell? Says right on the box they aren't rated for the prevention of viral transfer so they're equally useless. The only mask the public can get their hands on that does anything at all, the N95, is only rated for 30 minutes of continuous use before it's rendered ineffective, and that's before the constant touching and readjusting everyone does that makes ALL masks ineffective immediately. Not to mention they've flip-flopped so many times on the mask issue that nothing they say has any truth behind it. First they said masks didn't do anything (and they still don't work, for the record), then they say they do work, then they said it only works in one direction (which is not how mask filters are designed, but okay, sure, why stop lying now?), then they said if you're vax'd you don't need one, then they said you do need one if you're vax'd because you can still catch it, then they said wear multiple masks, now they say that's just going to make it too hard to breathe.

    You want to listen to people who can't make up their minds and make statements based on who is paying their bills? Be my guest.

    If you care about preventable deaths so much, campaign for something that's actually worth caring about. An inflated death count, as evidenced by multiple people in the medical fields' testimony, doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of being worthy of notice. People die every day. More people die abroad to famine and war than to anything else, but that's not topical is it? How about vehicular deaths? Considering almost as many people die every year in car accidents as Covid, should we start banning cars next? No, it's easier to just sit in your chair and lay out demands to your neighbors that *your* health is so important that *they* must do something about it. And if they don't, they get rights stripped away. Just look at Australia: 95% of the people in the ICU with the virus are vaccinated, yet they continue to blame the unvaccinated. They're going door to door, trying to round up people they "caught" in public areas without masks. They're shaking down people ALONE in a park, OUTSIDE, who are EATING, if they don't have a mask on.

    Maybe you're fine with that. But I'm not. None of this "follows the science." It's like none of you paid attention in biology or have spoken to a virologist. You're getting your advice from the man who paid for this gain-of-function of a virus that previously only infected flying rodents; who has done nothing in the medical field in decades; who has a long recorded history of being completely wrong from a medical standpoint. But since he says what you want to hear, you herald him a savior. It's disgusting.

    And with that, I won't be saying anything more. I know the crowd here. You all parrot what you're told by your handlers and drown out anything else, content with what scraps your government allows you to fight over.

    EDIT: Yeah, exactly what I expected. The sycophants read from their doctrine while they all hurdle off the cliff just because the guy at the front of line told them it's a good idea. You're all so predictable.

    PALaxx on
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    PALaxx wrote: »
    How about vehicular deaths? Considering almost as many people die every year in car accidents as Covid, should we start banning cars next?

    There are around 38,000 US Automobile deaths every year. That's like a fifteenth as many as died from covid. And the government still requires you to wear a seatbelt anyways, so even if the numbers were equal you'd only be disproving your own point.

    Similarly I could point you to dozens of studies that wearing a mask helps, or that the vaccine doesn't actually "alter your cells" in any way you're implying (technically all vaccines alter some of your cells), or that the Delta variant is more deadly than the original strain, or similar. But I have a feeling any study that didn't agree with your preconceptions would be dismissed as lies.

    Bremen on
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  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    PALaxx wrote: »
    gish gallop

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  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    PALaxx wrote: »
    PALaxx wrote: »
    If your precious vax worked, you would have nothing to worry about. Why do you care if Joe Shmoe over there didn't get the poke if you did?

    In brief, breakthrough infections, mutations, and also any sort of empathic concern for broader society when it is unable to reach herd immunity.
    That's supposed to be yet another layer of protection, according to Saint Fauci right? Well, I mean, now it is according to him -- when this all started, he said masks didn't do anything but you know, whatever.

    You mean in the interview where he said 'masks are important for someone who is infected to stop them from infecting someone else'?
    If you're vax'd and mask'd, you should have nothing to fear from Joe Shmoe. But sure, pretend him being "vulnerable" somehow means you are, too. It's fun to watch.

    Nobody in this thread I can see is expressing fear for their own wellbeing, nor in Jerry's post. I know a lot of people like to persoanlize every aspect of these things, but honestly a lot of people think thousands of preventible deaths isn't a good thing and it's worth making the small effort to help prevent that.

    Mutations occurred because of the "vaccine."

    First, let me thank you for just leading with outright blatant ignorance (to be kind) or misinformation (to not). That makes it easy to know that the rest of your post will be spewing nonsense. While it is true that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, it's okay to judge it by the first chapter.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-mutations-vaccine/fact-check-sars-cov-2-virus-began-mutating-prior-to-mass-vaccine-rollouts-idUSL1N2OZ1PU
    https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-covid-vaccines-cause-the-delta-variant/a-58242263
    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccines-do-not-cause-new-sars-cov-2-variants

    Another reason why this is just the dumbest thing to say is that all these strains that are worse happened before the vaccine:
    Alpha: September 2020
    Beta: October 2020
    Gamma: December 2020
    Delta: October 2020

    And many originate in countries that - even when a vaccine was available - have the lowest vaccination rates: India, Brazil and South Africa. Yes, some come from places with high vaccination rates. But if your claim was true, they should all come from countries with high vaccination rates.

    How does a vaccine cause a mutation before the vaccine is released? And how is that variant extremely prevalent before there's a significant percentage of the population vaccinated? Does COVID transmit backwards in time?
    And with that, I won't be saying anything more. I know the crowd here. You all parrot what you're told by your handlers and drown out anything else, content with what scraps your government allows you to fight over.

    Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Everyone who disagrees with you must obviously have "handlers" who tell them what to think, and can't possibly have an original idea of their own, unlike your special self that is the true thinking genius of the world.

    And no, I seriously doubt you won't be saying anything more. You'll keep spreading your goose shit until you're kicked from the thread, like all the geese before you. It's in your nature.

    Edit: Ah, sneaky. "I won't be saying anything more here." "Oh, wait, I want to say something else, but it would be embarrassing if I posted again because it would show I can't help it. I know, I'll just edit the post!"

    dennis on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    PALaxx wrote: »
    this is a first-of-its-kind vaccine that was rushed out the door in 6 months, modifies your cells directly,
    Tell me you failed high school biology without telling me you failed high school biology.

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  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    I was wondering where he got that 95% statistic regarding vaccinated people in the ICU in Australia, since every official site I've looked at thus far from Australia says nothing of the sort.

    But, I imagine it is something that grew from this:

    https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/no-hospitalised-covid-19-patients-in-nsw-arent-all-vaccinated/

    Of course, I'm sure he would just see the correction on the part of the man who misspoke as just being part of the "big coverup" that is hiding the truth from us all...

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  • McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    PALaxx wrote: »
    Just look at Australia: 95% of the people in the ICU with the virus are vaccinated

    Uhhhh
    16nm9eph4ins.png
    Figures from NSW (the state which suffered first from the Delta outbrak) from almost 3 weeks ago (most recent I can find, on their way to getting it under control).

    At a point when 66.6% of the eligible population were fully vaccinated (and sure, lets read something into that figure just because) and 87.7% had received at least 1 dose, the 12.3% of the population that was unvaccinated made up 71.6% of those in ICU.

    Let's not let facts get in the way though.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    McFodder wrote: »
    PALaxx wrote: »
    Just look at Australia: 95% of the people in the ICU with the virus are vaccinated

    Uhhhh
    16nm9eph4ins.png
    Figures from NSW (the state which suffered first from the Delta outbrak) from almost 3 weeks ago (most recent I can find, on their way to getting it under control).

    At a point when 66.6% of the eligible population were fully vaccinated (and sure, lets read something into that figure just because) and 87.7% had received at least 1 dose, the 12.3% of the population that was unvaccinated made up 71.6% of those in ICU.

    Let's not let facts get in the way though.
    As always, there's an XKCD for that.
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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I love the insinuation that the vast majority of those in this thread who support the vaccine are being fed what to say, despite responding along a number of different tacks and being regular forum users all.

    Meanwhile, the anti vax truthers come in one at a time (seemingly new posters as far as I can tell), dealing out a flurry of posts before being banned, and waiting for one person to be banned before the next person steps in like ninjas fighting an action hero and patiently waiting their turn.

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    @PALaxx Literally everything you have said in this thread so far is not only wrong, but ridiculously so. You can call us brainwashed all you want, but on one end, we have all the scientists of the world, actual facts and data with sources, and on the other hand we have a handful of quacks spewing the identical points you made and throwing random numbers that all originate from one or two debunked source, of which you are merely all aggregators.

    By the way, mRNA technology is about 50 years in the making, it's not new. Shitting on this vaccine because it's "new" is akin to if Ben and Jerry's came up with a new flavor of ice cream and you shrieked: "Don't eat this! Ice cream technology has literally just been invented!" Ice cream has been around forever; at the absolute worst this new flavor didn't taste good, and at best it's the tastiest thing you ever had.

    Covid is a new flavor for an ice cream vaccine that's been long in the works.

    Djiem on
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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    With that said, don't get an actual ice cream vaccine; side effects include brain freeze.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    McFodder wrote: »
    PALaxx wrote: »
    Just look at Australia: 95% of the people in the ICU with the virus are vaccinated

    Uhhhh
    16nm9eph4ins.png
    Figures from NSW (the state which suffered first from the Delta outbrak) from almost 3 weeks ago (most recent I can find, on their way to getting it under control).

    At a point when 66.6% of the eligible population were fully vaccinated (and sure, lets read something into that figure just because) and 87.7% had received at least 1 dose, the 12.3% of the population that was unvaccinated made up 71.6% of those in ICU.

    Let's not let facts get in the way though.

    I'm surpremely confident that they won't

    I'm sure that someone who thinks that allowing 2% of the population to die by his own figures (plus an additional percentage suffering from long term heath symptoms) is preferable to requiring to him get a shot doesn't care about anything that isn't him.

    2% of the US population is about 400,000 people btw.

  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    @PALaxx Literally everything you have said in this thread so far is not only wrong, but ridiculously so. You can call us brainwashed all you want, but on one end, we have all the scientists of the world, actual facts and data with sources, and on the other hand we have a handful of quacks spewing the identical points you made and throwing random numbers that all originate from one or two debunked source, of which you are merely all aggregators.

    By the way, mRNA technology is about 50 years in the making, it's not new. Shitting on this vaccine because it's "new" is akin to if Ben and Jerry's came up with a new flavor of ice cream and you shrieked: "Don't eat this! Ice cream technology has literally just been invented!" Ice cream has been around forever; at the absolute worst this new flavor didn't taste good, and at best it's the tastiest thing you ever had.

    Covid is a new flavor for an ice cream vaccine that's been long in the works.

    I always wait a couple years before trying a new B&J flavor. Just to make sure no one dies or becomes a horrible mutant. ;)

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    McFodder wrote: »
    PALaxx wrote: »
    Just look at Australia: 95% of the people in the ICU with the virus are vaccinated

    Uhhhh
    16nm9eph4ins.png
    Figures from NSW (the state which suffered first from the Delta outbrak) from almost 3 weeks ago (most recent I can find, on their way to getting it under control).

    At a point when 66.6% of the eligible population were fully vaccinated (and sure, lets read something into that figure just because) and 87.7% had received at least 1 dose, the 12.3% of the population that was unvaccinated made up 71.6% of those in ICU.

    Let's not let facts get in the way though.

    I'm surpremely confident that they won't

    I'm sure that someone who thinks that allowing 2% of the population to die by his own figures (plus an additional percentage suffering from long term heath symptoms) is preferable to requiring to him get a shot doesn't care about anything that isn't him.

    2% of the US population is about 400,000 people btw.

    No you're way off on that.
    2% of the US population is about 6.6 million.

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  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    edited October 22
    PALaxx wrote: »
    Modifies your cells directly

    Everything you said was wrong, but this is the most wrong thing in the history of wrongness.

    Please get your news from real sources, and not the guy who's only positive contribution to society was being a minor recurring character in NewsRadio and was the worst human being involved with that show and that show had Andy Dick in it.

    EDIT-
    Djiem wrote: »
    Ice cream has been around forever; at the absolute worst this new flavor didn't taste good, and at best it's the tastiest thing you ever had.

    Well, the latter is only possible if they bring back the original Jimmy Fallon's Late Night Snack.

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  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    It really doesn't matter how well you debunk their bullshit, they will continue to spread it without taking even a single moment to consider your points. They're still pushing taking points that were debunked over a year ago.

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  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Sterica wrote: »
    Reminder that the same people bellowing that the government should focus on national health guidelines instead of vaccines are the same people that, a decade ago, called Michelle Obama "Moochelle" for...pushing to make school lunches healthier.

    My kid's public school lunch menu for the next week:
    Monday: Cheeseburger
    Tuesday: Asian Sesame Chicken Wrap
    Wednesday: Creamy Mac & Cheese
    Thursday: Chicken Tenders & Waffle
    Friday: Pizza

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    There's so much wrong there that I won't even dive in to debunk it all (gotta love the Ben Shapiro Gish Gallop), but the whole thing about boosters... is that they are standard treatment for vaccines? You get a flu shot every year. Many vaccines need a booster (tetanus anyone?) and the Polio vaccine had yearly boosters (a fact that is usually ignored by people who haven't studied the history of vaccines). This was always going to happen. And the need for boosters is to stop people from spreading the infection; the vaccine still highly prevents hospitalization and death, even after it wanes in effectiveness in getting infected.

    All of these people are saying "I'm not a sheep!", and they are posting the exact same talking points that they got from conservative media. But the most telling thing, of course, is that the post was made by a person whose post history was creating an account specifically to defend the 45th President and, separately, a pedophile (it seems weird that I had to make sure that both of these were distinct, but that's the age we live in). So... yeah.

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