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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Any major tech stuff would be an impossible leap. The information you'd have to include in order to cover over 200 years of worldwide efforts in advancement would require several dozen volumes of information and data. The only reason solar power is now truly viable is because of decades of intensive research requiring massive amounts of materials testing in order to increase efficiency, and we still don't really have good tech to store the power properly yet. That's if you could even get them to understand what you're sending them.

    And tech wouldn't do anything at all to avoid general shittiness of human nature. I can all but guarantee that it wouldn't matter worth a fuck if solar power started as viable as it is now, it would still have to upset coal and oil and those industries would still have buried it. Without providing structure for human philosophy to advance, the tech wouldn't matter.

    Providing the specifics of how to create a government that won't be rendered hostile via corruption and people willing to fuck over the planet for money would be far more effective than any amount of tech advancement.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    It kind of gets around the point of the hypothetical, too. The question being posed isn’t “what would be a cool and/or important invention to have early”, it’s “if you could give the people who designed the framework for our government one piece of insight into how they were fucking up, what would it be?”

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Oh I've thought of one, its actually the onion:

    'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I do actually wonder how much traction one could get with introducing socialism or social democracy to the Founding Fathers. Things like private property would still be protected, but I could see many of the FFs being swayed to understanding that helping the worst off helps all of society. Not to mention that would align directly with tenets of how Christianity is supposed to be, so there's religious leverage to the idea.

    Though I guess even if they were heavily swayed by a developed form of those philosophies (neither of which existed at the time), it would be meaningless without correcting the inherent long-term issues baked into the procedural elements of the government. Without a system of government that actively disallows perversion into fascism, up to and including punishing the attempt outright, and blocks corruption while actually representing the citizens, any system like ours is inevitably doomed to trying to patch up the gaping holes the FFs left behind via design or simply not knowing the future.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The Founders were rich landowners who basically wanted to restrict power to rich landowners. They would not be down with Marx whatsoever.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    I don't think you'd get very far with anything modern about the the Senate/supreme court/electoral college being fucked up. The founders didn't really expect or want the strong centralized national government we have now, they're not going to see it getting mired in politics as a problem.

    I think the realest chance you have is giving them info on the civil war. Slavery is an issue they absolutely understood, and showing them the consequences of them kicking that particular can down the road might've spurred them into action.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    The Founders were rich landowners who basically wanted to restrict power to rich landowners. They would not be down with Marx whatsoever.

    Also, while Marx & Engles were after most of them had died, the French Revolution and the writings Marxism were based on were contemporaneous and they didn't choose to base their society on them then

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I would show them something illustrating the filibuster (on a topic that they would be incensed by it being used to block, ideally) or how corrupt and partisan the SCOTUS is (again, while ruling on something they care about and not like, civil rights or something) to try to get them to fix one or the other before it becomes an issue.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    The Founders were rich landowners who basically wanted to restrict power to rich landowners. They would not be down with Marx whatsoever.

    Also, while Marx & Engles were after most of them had died, the French Revolution and the writings Marxism were based on were contemporaneous and they didn't choose to base their society on them then

    The French Revolution happened 13 years after the declaration of independence and 2 years after the Constitution. You can't blame them for not basing their new nation on the French Revolution when it hadn't happened yet.

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    As nice as it would be to patch out some of our current problems, I would definitely send an article about the Civil War / Lincoln Assassination / Reconstruction and Lost Cause failure.

    Even if they didn't take it seriously or find a way to abolish slavery sooner or head off the war, hopefully the warning would at least have Lincoln duck.

    Of course unintended consequences could just as easily have work harder to cement the right to own slaves in the Constitution and make it even harder to abolish. Who knows.

    Edit - and its not like a lot of the current issues weren't anticipated and discussed in Federalist Papers or other contemporaneous discussions.

    zagdrob on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    I don't think you'd get very far with anything modern about the the Senate/supreme court/electoral college being fucked up. The founders didn't really expect or want the strong centralized national government we have now, they're not going to see it getting mired in politics as a problem.

    I think the realest chance you have is giving them info on the civil war. Slavery is an issue they absolutely understood, and showing them the consequences of them kicking that particular can down the road might've spurred them into action.

    Half of them thought slavery was cool and awesome, and I am positive they heard arguments about how kicking the can down the road was going to end up in a civil war.

    Think about showing Manchin some proof that some time after he dies, the world climate will go all to hell and people will die in droves. Does he care? Does he stop taking money from fossil fuel interests? Fuck no. Guy is the definition of “fuck you got mine”.

    Slavers were basically the original flavor of “fuck you got mine”. They were doing it before Boomers made it cool. I really don’t think they’re swayed by proof that their actions lead to wholesale slaughter of their countrymen.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Josh is correct, I don’t believe slavery was ever gonna change with them

    I think the 2nd amendment definitely gets axed or changed if the founders get an article on like Sandy Hook or something showing them how ridiculously powerful guns get compared to their pistols and rifles

    Captain Inertia on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Like I really think letting them know it leads to civil war and they will lose will make them resolve to do better at fighting and preparation so they don't lose. They won’t suddenly free their slaves and see the light.

    Edit: Yeah I think they at least resolve to put something about “well-regulated militia doesn’t mean any average Joe that wants to murder kids you fuckwits” in there

    joshofalltrades on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Remember, Virginia was the largest and most powerful state.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I don’t think any of those things regarding slavery or whatever would make much difference honestly.

    The founding fathers weren’t idiots for the most part. There were those who saw the civil war coming and they knew there were flaws in the constitution.

    In general societal problems aren’t out of context black swan problems, they are grey swan or even white swan problems that are predictable but just not dealt with. Sure in some very individual cases you might make a difference (telling Lincoln or Garfield to duck or whatever) but broadly just telling people something is going to be a problem in the future isn’t going to make much difference.

    Edit: and what I mean is basically that for any large problem looming in the future there are going to be 3 types of people:

    1. Really hardheaded deniers that think they are right because they have the world figured out and know better than anyone else and won’t listen to reason. We have plenty of these in the modern era (antivaxers, climate denialists, etc) but they have always been around for various issues.
    2. People that know the truth but don’t give a shit. Maybe because they personally benefit from the status quo and don’t see themselves as suffering direct consequences in the future (due to being dead, affluent enough to avoid consequences, etc), or maybe because they see getting by or living well/avoiding hardship in the now as more important (everyone dies, smoke em if you got em).
    3. People that know the truth and are trying to muddle through and work around categories 1 and 2 to get something done.

    News from the future about consequences isn’t going to affect categories 1 and 2, and category 3 is already on your side.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Most of the constitution was already a peace treaty

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    I think I would send them an article on gerrymandering and apportionment of the House, and how badly it's been broken by the growth of the nation. Something that would let them know we'll someday be a nation that spans the whole continent, with 50 states and 300+ million people spread unevenly, and the current system's structure won't support representative democracy without creating huge disparities.

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    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    I would send them the entire written out plot of the Big O. And I would tell them that that was our future. I don't know if it would make any positive changes in the world but it would really screw with their heads and isn't that worth it?

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    I agree that the second amendment is the most likely to actually work and get them to make it explicitly about state militias or something. I don't think funding out about the Civil War would get the slave states to decide to drop slavery. More likely it results in them walking out and the US never existing and we get the Civil War a couple centuries early, but probably more of a Warring States type deal.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I would send them the entire written out plot of the Big O. And I would tell them that that was our future. I don't know if it would make any positive changes in the world but it would really screw with their heads and isn't that worth it?

    This is good.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Heffling wrote: »
    Phyphor wrote: »
    The Founders were rich landowners who basically wanted to restrict power to rich landowners. They would not be down with Marx whatsoever.

    Also, while Marx & Engles were after most of them had died, the French Revolution and the writings Marxism were based on were contemporaneous and they didn't choose to base their society on them then

    The French Revolution happened 13 years after the declaration of independence and 2 years after the Constitution. You can't blame them for not basing their new nation on the French Revolution when it hadn't happened yet.

    The declaration of independence is an irrelevant date, the constitution was ratified in 1787 and then heavily amended in 1791, there was nothing stopping them from making additional changes if they had wanted to

    Phyphor on
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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Lots of them would have celebrated Hamilton's death.

    Hamilton himself wouldn't, and Aaron Burr would probably also be interested in not being remembered only as the weird duelist murderer guy, and since they are the important parties here their opinions are the only ones who matter.

    And yeah, realistically, this is the only change we could actually hope to make with a single news article. If we could send, say, a pile of science textbooks to Benjamin Franklin, probably could do more.

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    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Aaron Burr would probably also be interested in not being remembered only as the weird duelist murderer guy

    Hey! He's also remembered as the weird maybe-traitor guy.

    cckerberos.png
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    He’s forever peanut butter mouth guy

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    He's the guy always waiting for it, never taking his shot

    Until that time he probably should have.

    Veevee on
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