Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
Given the "Its not for you to touch" comment when the Reds capture Logain(presumably). "Anyone of you 4 can be the Dragon, and that is great' tone- it seems to be referred to exclusively as an "and will save the world". They seem to have either redid the whole Siadin/Saidar aspect, the taint, the prophecies, or all of the above.
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
Is it possible we lose Galad(And maybe Gawyn too?) Shit needs to get cut and honestly they aren't really all that important in the resolution.
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
Man, you can't have a Questioner position for the White Cloaks, what kind of dumb shit is this?
"Are you an Aes Sedai?"
"...pass."
"Fire up the grill, boys, got another one."
Few thoughts on Whitecloaks (i think this is book spoilers, i'm combining vague memories of the books with what we've seen on-screen)
- I think they're not, officially, hunting Aes Sedai yet. Officially. Those rings belonged to Darkfriends who happened to be Aes Sedai (like all Aes Sedai, unofficially)
- They don't believe in the Three Oaths; they think Aes Sedai lie all the time
- On the other hand, if you did consider "Are you an Aes Sedai" to be a litmus test, you would block yourself from threatening to string up any old lady who looked at you wrong -- sort of a non-starter if you're trying to kickstart a fascist-parnoid revival movement :P
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The only shot where I was really feeling the cgi budget wail in pain was the look at shadar logoth
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
The Trollocs are A+ for the most part though.
That’s all Book though. That’s what traditional tower based channeling looks like.
Book and hopefully show spoilers
Like the kids figuring out you don’t really need to do all the waving arms and wiggling fingers is a plot point illustrating that maybe the aes sedi are kinda bullshit as an authority on using the one power. The girls in fact catch shit at the tower regularly because they don’t follow those traditions and learned to channel better than anyone else at the tower without any of the movements.
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
The Trollocs are A+ for the most part though.
That’s all Book though. That’s what traditional tower based channeling looks like.
There's some hand motions with some things (eg - throwing motions with things you shoot out) but it's not described generally as a lot of hand-waving around most of the time. They aren't swinging their arms wildly about most of the time.
But this is a different medium anyway and there's always the question of what looks good on screen. And the floaty handwaving just does not look good on screen.
Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
Given the "Its not for you to touch" comment when the Reds capture Logain(presumably). "Anyone of you 4 can be the Dragon, and that is great' tone- it seems to be referred to exclusively as an "and will save the world". They seem to have either redid the whole Siadin/Saidar aspect, the taint, the prophecies, or all of the above.
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
Is it possible we lose Galad(And maybe Gawyn too?) Shit needs to get cut and honestly they aren't really all that important in the resolution.
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
What on earth does appeasing Twitter mean in this context?
Oh hey, it's Monday, which means the spoiler policy for the first 3 eps is now open spoilers.
Book discussion, especially of content that has not yet been covered in the show, should be still be closed spinners, though minor deviations such as "No droopy mustache for Thom?" are fine cause they're not gonna ruin anyone's day and the spoiler tags are annoying to type out on mobile.
More medium range stuff like
like discussing book Perrin vs show, or where the hell is my man Elyas Machera are borderline
But maybe better safe than sorry?
Future episodes will be closed spoilers until the next episode releases.
Like, to be more specific, in the books Moraine doesn't wave her arms around constantly. Instead there's very firm decisive motions when she does a thing. Like at one point she slams her staff into the ground to blow a bunch of shit up with lightning. That kind of thing.
And this is generally the kind of visual language used in film and television for this stuff because it actually works on screen. When someone is a bad-ass in film, especially with magic or psychic powers or whatever, the tendency is to minimize motion and distill it down to strong punchy gestures.
And given what seem like the the heavy influences of things like samurai films on the book series, RJ is probably importing that stuff from there. Consciously or not.
Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
Given the "Its not for you to touch" comment when the Reds capture Logain(presumably). "Anyone of you 4 can be the Dragon, and that is great' tone- it seems to be referred to exclusively as an "and will save the world". They seem to have either redid the whole Siadin/Saidar aspect, the taint, the prophecies, or all of the above.
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
Is it possible we lose Galad(And maybe Gawyn too?) Shit needs to get cut and honestly they aren't really all that important in the resolution.
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
What on earth does appeasing Twitter mean in this context?
I'm pretty sure what they are talking about is a big spoiler from the end of the first book, so I'll spoil it.
I'm assuming they are referencing the whole thing where in the show The Dragon could be a girl too.
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
The Trollocs are A+ for the most part though.
That’s all Book though. That’s what traditional tower based channeling looks like.
There's some hand motions with some things (eg - throwing motions with things you shoot out) but it's not described generally as a lot of hand-waving around most of the time. They aren't swinging their arms wildly about most of the time.
But this is a different medium anyway and there's always the question of what looks good on screen. And the floaty handwaving just does not look good on screen.
Yeah I think they just went too dang big on a lot of stuff. Even the weaves generally associated with actions tend to be more understated.
I'm mostly fine with the CG on channeling though I wish they'd added color to distinguish the elements. And made it look more "weavy" since metaphysical weaving is such a thing across the series.
I really don’t know what the complaints about the magic are about? The effects look fine but maybe you just don’t like them stylistically. I’m pretty sure they are specifically going for a look that emphasizes threads of light given it makes thematic sense.
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
The Trollocs are A+ for the most part though.
If you re-watch that it only looks like the power is being drawn out of the world because
she's using the tendrils of the One Power to grab stones and rocks from all the buildings around her
I actually think its purposely understated so far
so later when actual heavy hitter channelers do their thing it's a huge contrast. Current White Tower Aes Sedai are dismissed as children in the use of the One Power by the Forsaken after all
For me I always associated the weaving of the power by women to be largely hidden with the glow etc. And so I always associated the complexity of it largely hidden but that there was a complexity of to the weavings. For me i do not really mind them changing this to a visual for all gesture oriented approach. It is the big screen after all.
I didnt mind any of the changes to the characters really as a vast majority of the meat of the story was in there. The events of the first few books are so overshadowed by the later ones that the "beginnings" do not really mean much and so adding weight to the origins is a general bonus to me. I guess if I were to pick an unfavorite it would be Mat. His da being a pretty good side character through the later books and a solid point of reference to him when he needed centering. Him being changed to the poor kid of the town, while a suitable change, I disliked more than the others. Even Rand and Egwene being on lovers terms.
As for the whitecloaks. They left her alone because her story had evidence. The trolloc wound. Ii can see the argument that book questioners would have most likely taken an individual such as that into question. But the scene was a setup scene and I felt it showed the different aspects of the whitecloaks fine. The temperate commander. And the sadistic questioner.
For me I feel it was as strong an opening as we could have hoped and I give a solid B+ as it was 90%+ there.
I expect 90% of what is complained about in the first 3 episodes to not matter or people will stop caring about once we get into the thick of things. I'm sure there will be all new things to complain about though.
I expect 90% of what is complained about to not matter or will people care about once we get into the thick of things. I'm sure there will be all new things to complain about though.
The Wheel of Time turns
What once was griping about expected changes passes into griping about completely different actual changes but also griping about expected changes
Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
Given the "Its not for you to touch" comment when the Reds capture Logain(presumably). "Anyone of you 4 can be the Dragon, and that is great' tone- it seems to be referred to exclusively as an "and will save the world". They seem to have either redid the whole Siadin/Saidar aspect, the taint, the prophecies, or all of the above.
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
Is it possible we lose Galad(And maybe Gawyn too?) Shit needs to get cut and honestly they aren't really all that important in the resolution.
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
What on earth does appeasing Twitter mean in this context?
I'm pretty sure what they are talking about is a big spoiler from the end of the first book, so I'll spoil it.
I'm assuming they are referencing the whole thing where in the show The Dragon could be a girl too.
Yes I’m aware of this but it’s still a baffling statement
Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
Given the "Its not for you to touch" comment when the Reds capture Logain(presumably). "Anyone of you 4 can be the Dragon, and that is great' tone- it seems to be referred to exclusively as an "and will save the world". They seem to have either redid the whole Siadin/Saidar aspect, the taint, the prophecies, or all of the above.
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
Is it possible we lose Galad(And maybe Gawyn too?) Shit needs to get cut and honestly they aren't really all that important in the resolution.
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
What on earth does appeasing Twitter mean in this context?
I'm pretty sure what they are talking about is a big spoiler from the end of the first book, so I'll spoil it.
I'm assuming they are referencing the whole thing where in the show The Dragon could be a girl too.
Yes I’m aware of this but it’s still a baffling statement
Ok. I don't really agree with it but I don't find it baffling either. I don't think it's a good change overall but I think it was likely done in some kind of attempt to inject more of a mystery and drama plot into the first season while also making Egwene more central from the start. But I can see why someone would think it was an attempt to try and deal with some of the series' views on gender.
From a narrative perspective I think it also helps give a reason why we should care about the other Two Rivers kids
Otherwise it would just be The Chosen One plus three of his mates
It allows the show to define them in ways beyond their relation to the main character
Which I know the books did with their own arcs and whatnot, but we've got limited episodes
Spending maybe a touch more time giving each of the 5 some actual characterization and motivation before immediately hustling them out from Emmond's Field would have helped, too...
After stewing on it over the weekend, this is the criticism I think most justified - they showrunners were so worried about advancing the plot that they forgot that the characters need to be fleshed out early so that we can identify with, and care about, them.
I think there was enough characterisation to go on with - but that might be my knowledge of the books filling in the blanks
One criticism I had while watching, though - I now have no idea of where the characters are geographically
They're all in radically different landscapes which is very epic and dramatic and whatnot, but how did all three biomes exist within floating distance of that city? How long were they escaping?
From a narrative perspective I think it also helps give a reason why we should care about the other Two Rivers kids
Otherwise it would just be The Chosen One plus three of his mates
It allows the show to define them in ways beyond their relation to the main character
Which I know the books did with their own arcs and whatnot, but we've got limited episodes
I could see them thinking that but it's just not necessary. Once you move from book to TV, there isn't really a POV unless you want to explicitly make one. You can easily follow all the kids and give them roughly equal screentime and characterize them all and there would be nothing strange about that. Especially since the book doesn't even tip it's hand directly on a lot of this stuff and is just like "They are here to kill you for some reason, let's get you the fuck out of here". The only reason one character is more notable then the others is because one of them is the POV character and so we assume they must be the important one because of how narratives tend to work.
I think for one thing they ended up on different sides of the river.
Perrin and Egwene are in the Caralain Grass, which in the books took them a few days walking to get to from where they washed up. So that's pretty reasonable.
I'm not sure the geography for Mat and Rand lines up with where they should be.
Book 1
They were well out of the mountains and past Baerlon before they reached Shadar Logoth. So either they extend the mountain range eastward more, or farther back Rand and Mat and Thom are going to have to hoof it to meet up with the rest. If only they knew a riverboat captain....
I think there was enough characterisation to go on with - but that might be my knowledge of the books filling in the blanks
One criticism I had while watching, though - I now have no idea of where the characters are geographically
They're all in radically different landscapes which is very epic and dramatic and whatnot, but how did all three biomes exist within floating distance of that city? How long were they escaping?
You can look that up on the Amazon Prime Explore page. There is a map and a timeline. According to that, the journey from Emond's Field to Shadar Logoth took 11 Days. Mat and Rand take another 6 Days to reach Breen's Spring.
I think there was enough characterisation to go on with - but that might be my knowledge of the books filling in the blanks
One criticism I had while watching, though - I now have no idea of where the characters are geographically
They're all in radically different landscapes which is very epic and dramatic and whatnot, but how did all three biomes exist within floating distance of that city? How long were they escaping?
You can look that up on the Amazon Prime Explore page. There is a map and a timeline. According to that, the journey from Emond's Field to Shadar Logoth took 11 Days. Mat and Rand take another 6 Days to reach Breen's Spring.
That's awesome - like how the books all have the glossary in the back
Although I would never look stuff up during the main story and just read the glossary in order once I'd finished the book
The show is a resounding "meh" for me. I'll keep watching it because I loved the books, but I can't see myself recommending it to anybody who didn't in the same way GOT landed at first.
The changes to Perrin in particular fell super flat. It's fine that he's married, that sort of change doesn't bother me much. But then they used his wife as a trope by killing her off and stuffing her into the fridge as motivation/pathos for the man and that just fucking sucks. I would rather she just didn't exist in the first place than for her entire character to be created from whole cloth and used in a stupid sexist dead horse trope.
And having Perrin be the one to kill her! Fuck off with that.
From a narrative perspective I think it also helps give a reason why we should care about the other Two Rivers kids
Otherwise it would just be The Chosen One plus three of his mates
It allows the show to define them in ways beyond their relation to the main character
Which I know the books did with their own arcs and whatnot, but we've got limited episodes
Spending maybe a touch more time giving each of the 5 some actual characterization and motivation before immediately hustling them out from Emmond's Field would have helped, too...
After stewing on it over the weekend, this is the criticism I think most justified - they showrunners were so worried about advancing the plot that they forgot that the characters need to be fleshed out early so that we can identify with, and care about, them.
Agreed, the Characters and the world both need fleshing out more in the show.
I would almost kill for a 5 minute voiceover during some of the opening scenes like where the Reds are chasing down that man, and where Rand and Tam are on the road to town.
There are a bunch of scenes with useless dialogue and a bunch of world building is missing.
I think there was enough characterisation to go on with - but that might be my knowledge of the books filling in the blanks
One criticism I had while watching, though - I now have no idea of where the characters are geographically
They're all in radically different landscapes which is very epic and dramatic and whatnot, but how did all three biomes exist within floating distance of that city? How long were they escaping?
You can look that up on the Amazon Prime Explore page. There is a map and a timeline. According to that, the journey from Emond's Field to Shadar Logoth took 11 Days. Mat and Rand take another 6 Days to reach Breen's Spring.
That's awesome - like how the books all have the glossary in the back
Although I would never look stuff up during the main story and just read the glossary in order once I'd finished the book
The x-ray feature, at least on PC and Amazon devices, will show some facts like a glossary for stuff in the scene. On other devices it'll show up in the general trivia section instead, though you can then use it to jump to the scene in question. It's not as convenient in that format where it's not just there when you pause.
I think they could have solved the problem with why do we need all these people to go to the White Tower if they spent a little more time on what Ta'veren are.
Moraine is definitely on teh quest to find the Dragon but she ALSO is on the quest to win the final war and having the Ta'veren on her side would have been huge. I'd say not explaining how important those 3 are by themselves whether they are the dragon or not is a big failing of the first three episodes.
Everything would be improved by more time. But with the onset of less is more taking hold in TV land this is what we end up with. I'd rather they split the budget in half and make more episodes. We need more story which wouldn't suffer if it was twice as long at this point and that probably won't change. Though, hopefully it does.
I think the show may have benefitted from introducing Siuan and Moiraine receiving the prophecy and forming their little packet as a story precursor in Ep 1 before kicking off. I know it comes much later in the books
I think they could have solved the problem with why do we need all these people to go to the White Tower if they spent a little more time on what Ta'veren are.
Moraine is definitely on teh quest to find the Dragon but she ALSO is on the quest to win the final war and having the Ta'veren on her side would have been huge. I'd say not explaining how important those 3 are by themselves whether they are the dragon or not is a big failing of the first three episodes.
The problem is the way they've shifted the focus of the narrative. It leads to a lot of weird issues and they never do the work to patch them up. There is zero mention of Taveren at all in the first episode from what I remember. Of much of anything beyond Dragon!Dragon!Dragon! in a way that just comes off as weird because it's never smoothly established so much as just dropped in our laps in the first minute.
In the books:
we don't know exactly what Moraine is even up to and the issue of her searching for the Dragon is not part of the narrative basically at all because she doesn't tell that to anyone. As such the plot is just about "Trollocs are coming to kill you, we gotta get your asses to the Tower so we can be safe".
I think they could have solved the problem with why do we need all these people to go to the White Tower if they spent a little more time on what Ta'veren are.
Moraine is definitely on teh quest to find the Dragon but she ALSO is on the quest to win the final war and having the Ta'veren on her side would have been huge. I'd say not explaining how important those 3 are by themselves whether they are the dragon or not is a big failing of the first three episodes.
The problem is the way they've shifted the focus of the narrative. It leads to a lot of weird issues and they never do the work to patch them up. There is zero mention of Taveren at all in the first episode from what I remember. Of much of anything beyond Dragon!Dragon!Dragon! in a way that just comes off as weird because it's never smoothly established so much as just dropped in our laps in the first minute.
In the books:
we don't know exactly what Moraine is even up to and the issue of her searching for the Dragon is not part of the narrative basically at all because she doesn't tell that to anyone. As such the plot is just about "Trollocs are coming to kill you, we gotta get your asses to the Tower so we can be safe".
They do actually mention Ta'veren in the cold open of the first episode. They're heading to Two Rivers because Moiraine said she's heard rumors of 4 Ta'veren there. Which is weird several ways.
But yeah they proceed to not elucidate on that concept at all.
when nynaeve kills the trolloc in the little sacred pool she'd been cleaning in an earlier ep, the blood came up and swirled in the shape of saidin
the taint!
Yep. And in Ep 1 the sheep killed by the trollocs were also laid out in a dragons fang. It's a little in the nose. Kind of reminds me how that one symbol would always show up in the beginning of an episode of heroes, but I still like it.
when nynaeve kills the trolloc in the little sacred pool she'd been cleaning in an earlier ep, the blood came up and swirled in the shape of saidin
the taint!
Yep. And in Ep 1 the sheep killed by the trollocs were also laid out in a dragons fang. It's a little in the nose. Kind of reminds me how that one symbol would always show up in the beginning of an episode of heroes, but I still like it.
Hmmm have to go back and look at the bats too then.
I will endeavor to be as vague and spoiler free as possible though the entire rest of the post will be in a spoiler to save space and for those who don't even want the vaguest of vagueries. This is all book lore, history, and metaphysics stuff.
As alluded to several times in the show, in monologue, dialogue, and the opening credits sequence, the lives of people are viewed as threads being spun out and woven with others in a Pattern by the Wheel of Time (why it's the Wheel weaving not a loom, iunno. Pleasing alliteration I guess?)
Think of it like a Bayeux Tapestry, but for the entire universe.
Now imagine that tapestry laying flat, and combine it with the rubber sheet with a grid on it used in physics visualizations of the gravitational warping of spacetime. Ta'veren are like massive bodies exerting gravitational influence causing it to warp. People and events are caught up in their orbit and influenced by them more strongly than they normally would be, because the Wheel needs certain events in the Pattern to occur. Like fixed points in time, or nexus events in other fictional works. It is essentially narrative convenience, but as an explicit force of the universe, centered on a person.
Some people may be "minor" ta'veren. Like a large planet or star. Events tend to turn in their favor, or at least in a way that makes Interesting and Important things happen, often improbably.
Others may be very powerful ta'veren. Think a neutron star, or a supermassive black hole. People who have chance encounters with them may have the whole course of their lives changed, even if they never meet them again or take part in the events in question. The warping is so strong, it makes shit Get Weird. Around them improbable stuff happens all the time. Like Domino in Deadpool.
Most known or suspected ta'veren have been important historical figures, among the most notable, Artur Hawkwing who can be thought of as a mix of Alexander the Great and King Arthur, who many centuries before united most of the continent until he died and his empire crumbled and divided into the nations remaining at the time of the books.
And then also this following bit where I relate that to show so far
Which is why its so dang weird that Moiraine mentions rumors of fourta'veren in the Two Rivers. If there was enough ta'vereny shit happening for someone to think there was 1 ta'veren there, much less 4, and then have rumors of that enough to reach Moiraine, then they would not still be random village folk living a bucolic village life at the time show starts.
Posts
Its early still, but whichever ways the writers decided to rewrite the Dragon/One Power stuff to appease Twitter seems to have gutted one of the core narrative tensions out of the story. Whoops *shocked Pikachu face*
All Episodes+pretty vague big theme book stuff
One of the core conflicts through the all books is that the Dragon is always to be feared as well- if not more so than- seen as salvation. He is doomed to go mad for handling the tainted half of the source. The mark of the dragon on someone's door is akin to a medieval accusation of witchcraft. And the response to "One of you is the dragon" seems to be 'um...okay great', also 'Oh the dragon, um whats that?'
The response to "One of you is the Dragon" is so muted. It'd be like if you pulled 4 kids from a bible camp and told them "One of you is actually God returned about to start Revelations", and they are all just 'I hope someone helps my da milk the cows while I'm gone.'
I'm not a big fan of the changes to Matt and Perrin's backstories, they have all the hallmarks of bad writers doing punch up for more DRAMA!!
Although with the changes to the white cloaks
Books
With the whitecloaks being played up as even more evil, and the Perrin killing a few of them seemingly skipped, the entire whitecloaks arc is kind of unneeded at all.
And Gawyn was always useless, so easy cut there.
So pluses and minuses, but more of the later I think.
"Are you an Aes Sedai?"
"...pass."
"Fire up the grill, boys, got another one."
Also I’m not seeing anything really to complain about the Trollocs either.
I’m watching in 4K on a 75” TV so bad CGI should be obvious to me and I’ve not noticed anything blatant.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
"His questioning will be thorough"
"So, where you going?"
"To see my sister"
"K, carry on"
Few thoughts on Whitecloaks (i think this is book spoilers, i'm combining vague memories of the books with what we've seen on-screen)
- They don't believe in the Three Oaths; they think Aes Sedai lie all the time
- On the other hand, if you did consider "Are you an Aes Sedai" to be a litmus test, you would block yourself from threatening to string up any old lady who looked at you wrong -- sort of a non-starter if you're trying to kickstart a fascist-parnoid revival movement :P
The only shot where I was really feeling the cgi budget wail in pain was the look at shadar logoth
The actual CGI I thought looks like good. What they are having the actress do looks quite silly and awkward though. Feels very "standing on a set waving your arms around at CG things". IMO it really just needs to be less.
Also I have nitpicky issues with how they are presenting the magic in that the way it's animated seems to suggest they are drawing the power from the world around them.
The Trollocs are A+ for the most part though.
That’s all Book though. That’s what traditional tower based channeling looks like.
Book and hopefully show spoilers
There's some hand motions with some things (eg - throwing motions with things you shoot out) but it's not described generally as a lot of hand-waving around most of the time. They aren't swinging their arms wildly about most of the time.
But this is a different medium anyway and there's always the question of what looks good on screen. And the floaty handwaving just does not look good on screen.
What on earth does appeasing Twitter mean in this context?
Book discussion, especially of content that has not yet been covered in the show, should be still be closed spinners, though minor deviations such as "No droopy mustache for Thom?" are fine cause they're not gonna ruin anyone's day and the spoiler tags are annoying to type out on mobile.
More medium range stuff like
Future episodes will be closed spoilers until the next episode releases.
And this is generally the kind of visual language used in film and television for this stuff because it actually works on screen. When someone is a bad-ass in film, especially with magic or psychic powers or whatever, the tendency is to minimize motion and distill it down to strong punchy gestures.
And given what seem like the the heavy influences of things like samurai films on the book series, RJ is probably importing that stuff from there. Consciously or not.
I'm pretty sure what they are talking about is a big spoiler from the end of the first book, so I'll spoil it.
Yeah I think they just went too dang big on a lot of stuff. Even the weaves generally associated with actions tend to be more understated.
I'm mostly fine with the CG on channeling though I wish they'd added color to distinguish the elements. And made it look more "weavy" since metaphysical weaving is such a thing across the series.
If you re-watch that it only looks like the power is being drawn out of the world because
I actually think its purposely understated so far
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
I didnt mind any of the changes to the characters really as a vast majority of the meat of the story was in there. The events of the first few books are so overshadowed by the later ones that the "beginnings" do not really mean much and so adding weight to the origins is a general bonus to me. I guess if I were to pick an unfavorite it would be Mat. His da being a pretty good side character through the later books and a solid point of reference to him when he needed centering. Him being changed to the poor kid of the town, while a suitable change, I disliked more than the others. Even Rand and Egwene being on lovers terms.
As for the whitecloaks. They left her alone because her story had evidence. The trolloc wound. Ii can see the argument that book questioners would have most likely taken an individual such as that into question. But the scene was a setup scene and I felt it showed the different aspects of the whitecloaks fine. The temperate commander. And the sadistic questioner.
For me I feel it was as strong an opening as we could have hoped and I give a solid B+ as it was 90%+ there.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
The Wheel of Time turns
What once was griping about expected changes passes into griping about completely different actual changes but also griping about expected changes
Yes I’m aware of this but it’s still a baffling statement
Ok. I don't really agree with it but I don't find it baffling either. I don't think it's a good change overall but I think it was likely done in some kind of attempt to inject more of a mystery and drama plot into the first season while also making Egwene more central from the start. But I can see why someone would think it was an attempt to try and deal with some of the series' views on gender.
Otherwise it would just be The Chosen One plus three of his mates
It allows the show to define them in ways beyond their relation to the main character
Which I know the books did with their own arcs and whatnot, but we've got limited episodes
Spending maybe a touch more time giving each of the 5 some actual characterization and motivation before immediately hustling them out from Emmond's Field would have helped, too...
After stewing on it over the weekend, this is the criticism I think most justified - they showrunners were so worried about advancing the plot that they forgot that the characters need to be fleshed out early so that we can identify with, and care about, them.
One criticism I had while watching, though - I now have no idea of where the characters are geographically
They're all in radically different landscapes which is very epic and dramatic and whatnot, but how did all three biomes exist within floating distance of that city? How long were they escaping?
I could see them thinking that but it's just not necessary. Once you move from book to TV, there isn't really a POV unless you want to explicitly make one. You can easily follow all the kids and give them roughly equal screentime and characterize them all and there would be nothing strange about that. Especially since the book doesn't even tip it's hand directly on a lot of this stuff and is just like "They are here to kill you for some reason, let's get you the fuck out of here". The only reason one character is more notable then the others is because one of them is the POV character and so we assume they must be the important one because of how narratives tend to work.
Perrin and Egwene are in the Caralain Grass, which in the books took them a few days walking to get to from where they washed up. So that's pretty reasonable.
I'm not sure the geography for Mat and Rand lines up with where they should be.
Book 1
You can look that up on the Amazon Prime Explore page. There is a map and a timeline. According to that, the journey from Emond's Field to Shadar Logoth took 11 Days. Mat and Rand take another 6 Days to reach Breen's Spring.
That's awesome - like how the books all have the glossary in the back
Although I would never look stuff up during the main story and just read the glossary in order once I'd finished the book
The changes to Perrin in particular fell super flat. It's fine that he's married, that sort of change doesn't bother me much. But then they used his wife as a trope by killing her off and stuffing her into the fridge as motivation/pathos for the man and that just fucking sucks. I would rather she just didn't exist in the first place than for her entire character to be created from whole cloth and used in a stupid sexist dead horse trope.
And having Perrin be the one to kill her! Fuck off with that.
Agreed, the Characters and the world both need fleshing out more in the show.
I would almost kill for a 5 minute voiceover during some of the opening scenes like where the Reds are chasing down that man, and where Rand and Tam are on the road to town.
There are a bunch of scenes with useless dialogue and a bunch of world building is missing.
MWO: Adamski
The x-ray feature, at least on PC and Amazon devices, will show some facts like a glossary for stuff in the scene. On other devices it'll show up in the general trivia section instead, though you can then use it to jump to the scene in question. It's not as convenient in that format where it's not just there when you pause.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
The problem is the way they've shifted the focus of the narrative. It leads to a lot of weird issues and they never do the work to patch them up. There is zero mention of Taveren at all in the first episode from what I remember. Of much of anything beyond Dragon!Dragon!Dragon! in a way that just comes off as weird because it's never smoothly established so much as just dropped in our laps in the first minute.
In the books:
They do actually mention Ta'veren in the cold open of the first episode. They're heading to Two Rivers because Moiraine said she's heard rumors of 4 Ta'veren there. Which is weird several ways.
But yeah they proceed to not elucidate on that concept at all.
the taint!
Yep. And in Ep 1 the sheep killed by the trollocs were also laid out in a dragons fang. It's a little in the nose. Kind of reminds me how that one symbol would always show up in the beginning of an episode of heroes, but I still like it.
Hmmm have to go back and look at the bats too then.
The hell even is a ta'veren?
I will endeavor to be as vague and spoiler free as possible though the entire rest of the post will be in a spoiler to save space and for those who don't even want the vaguest of vagueries. This is all book lore, history, and metaphysics stuff.
Think of it like a Bayeux Tapestry, but for the entire universe.
Now imagine that tapestry laying flat, and combine it with the rubber sheet with a grid on it used in physics visualizations of the gravitational warping of spacetime. Ta'veren are like massive bodies exerting gravitational influence causing it to warp. People and events are caught up in their orbit and influenced by them more strongly than they normally would be, because the Wheel needs certain events in the Pattern to occur. Like fixed points in time, or nexus events in other fictional works. It is essentially narrative convenience, but as an explicit force of the universe, centered on a person.
Some people may be "minor" ta'veren. Like a large planet or star. Events tend to turn in their favor, or at least in a way that makes Interesting and Important things happen, often improbably.
Others may be very powerful ta'veren. Think a neutron star, or a supermassive black hole. People who have chance encounters with them may have the whole course of their lives changed, even if they never meet them again or take part in the events in question. The warping is so strong, it makes shit Get Weird. Around them improbable stuff happens all the time. Like Domino in Deadpool.
Most known or suspected ta'veren have been important historical figures, among the most notable, Artur Hawkwing who can be thought of as a mix of Alexander the Great and King Arthur, who many centuries before united most of the continent until he died and his empire crumbled and divided into the nations remaining at the time of the books.
And then also this following bit where I relate that to show so far