As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Your party, and why its The Worst

Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT.normal (not weird)Registered User regular
edited April 2022 in Debate and/or Discourse
A general thread to discuss political parties, the ways they suck, let us down, and effect our future plans or the plans of others. Including but not limited to: The Democrats, The Republicans, a theoretical British opposition party, baby showers and whatever it is they do in Canada, something involving black face.

Obviously not always a happy topic, but let's try to be civil, keep in mind rules about advocating violence etc
ElJeffe wrote:
go wild

wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
Bogart on
«134567100

Posts

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular



    Video is describing this as bait.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Oh, political parties. I thought you were making fun of my birthday. DON'T JUDGE ME I DON'T LIKE CROWDS! :bigfrown:

  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    The last time I had anything to do with a political party, people kept saying things like "I came here to give you a jello shot, not talk about trans rights" and "fuck off, I'm trying to sing karaoke."

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    The Democrats do have significant structural issues that very much need to be addressed

    For example, the state parties are typically feckless, and the DNC does very little to help win statehouses (the occasional governor's race aside.)

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The Democrats do have significant structural issues that very much need to be addressed

    For example, the state parties are typically feckless, and the DNC does very little to help win statehouses (the occasional governor's race aside.)

    Man, the local unelected political committees and boards for WA Dems are truly atrocious sometimes.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    How do the Communist Parties around the world prevent splintering? Last I heard, there were 86 million Party members in China and they all get a vote on who's in charge. So where are the mini parties within the Party?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Famously non fractious, thats Communism alright

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    It would help if the Dems weren't full of sycophants, suck-ups, and people so old they're actively rotting before our eyes every time they're on camera. They're a corporate party that nominally believes abortion should be kinda legal but are afraid of alienating literally anyone who might case a vote or donate a dollar. They don't seem to realize that by having convictions you are going to generate enemies, and it handicaps them every fucking time.

    Also too many of them would just like to get rich with skin-deep social diversity while attending cocktail parties at swank digs. Hollywood for ugly nerds.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2021
    What is the approved method for political dissent from the left, if pointing out problems and corruption within the Democratic Party is always framed as giving cover to the right?

    tynic on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The Democrats do have significant structural issues that very much need to be addressed

    For example, the state parties are typically feckless, and the DNC does very little to help win statehouses (the occasional governor's race aside.)

    There is some good news implicit in this bad news, which is that the DNC does not have the capacity to police local elections outside of their urban machine strongholds, so lefty candidates can out-organize them.

  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    How do the Communist Parties around the world prevent splintering?

    The honest answer here is ruthless purging of dissidents both domestically and abroad.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Unrelated, but I would like to take this opportunity to say that the Australian Labor Party are a bunch of feckless, spineless weasels who have never seen an opportunity for picking up votes that they couldn't somehow squander. The party's capture by the centre-right neolib-light faction has destroyed all the opportunities set up between 2007-2012 to capitalise on progressive initiatives and our relative unscathed-ness from the 2008 crash, which could have let us address systemic issues while moving the country towards a green economy, and the only reason I do not spend more of my time finding ways to piss on them from a great height is that we also have the LNP, One Nation, and whatever Clive Palmer's shindig is to address, and a girl only has so much pee.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    What is the approved method for political dissent from the left, if pointing out problems and corruption within the Democratic Party is always framed as giving cover to the right?

    This is a challenge for people not even that far left who have serious concerns about dem leadership and corporate influence, too

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    It’s a running joke that The Green Party is a Russian front, but how much of that is true? I've seen stuff that indicates it’s not completely crazy to suspect bad faith Russian involvement in the Green Party.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Mostly it's to point at it directly when you can without immediately jumping to the conclusion that because of the specific incidences the entire apparatus and party is knowingly and similarly corrupt and that voting for them is just as bad as voting for republicans or participating in electoralism at all.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Nobeard wrote: »
    It’s a running joke that The Green Party is a Russian front, but how much of that is true? I've seen stuff that indicates it’s not completely crazy to suspect bad faith Russian involvement in the Green Party.

    Jill Stein definitely had dirty Russian ties, but that seems to be as much just standard grifter / useful idiot spoiler stuff as any sort of active involvement. She had a lot less direct ties to Russia than the Trump Campaign and GOP at large.

    Now the GOP edit - Green Party has absolutely been buoyed and received funding by the GOP and their supporters as a direct spoiler for decades now.

    zagdrob on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    tynic wrote: »
    What is the approved method for political dissent from the left, if pointing out problems and corruption within the Democratic Party is always framed as giving cover to the right?

    There isn't one of course. One thing that's very valuable to learn is the difference between someone conversing with you and someone exerting power over you. The difference can be subtle and people doing the latter often disguise what they are doing as the former. It's an effective trick but the first step to seeing through it is to let go of any idea that you need someone's approval before criticizing them.

    The Dem Party leadership have shown who they are time and time again. Some folks who are liberal/left-of-center apparently still think they are worth defending. I say don't even bother engaging and just push forward with you want to do, focusing on local elections and -- maybe even more important -- doing politics outside of elections.

    Hachface on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I think really it’s just a mess of a party which makes it easy for all sorts of shitbags to set them up to spoil elections

    This isn’t specific to Greens, Dems will also backchannel (sometimes front channel!) money to 3rd parties on the right to divide their opponents’ votes

  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    clinton's campaign famously boosted trump early in the 2016 GOP primary because they thought he'd be a pushover in general, which, lol

    also let it never be forgotten that obama birtherism originated with clinton's 2008 campaign and then got picked up as useful by the republicans

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Like I said elsewhere, part of the problem we’re seeing with the democrats is a fight that has been going down between its factions since the Clinton days, with the empowerment and domination of the Democratic Leadership Council.

    [the following will be a hard and fast overview of just over thirty years of Democratic Parry internal politics]

    For those unversed in Party history, the DLC was a coalition of conservative, “business-friendly” Democrats (primarily, at its founding, Democratic donors) that formed in the wake of the Reagan victories against the dems. Both Clintons, Al From, Joe Lieberman are among a few noteworthy members, but not anywhere limited to just them of course. Indeed it was From who served as founder of the organization and was its longtime CEO; but it was perhaps Bill Clinton who gave the DLC its major win.

    It’s widely regarded that his 1992 election victory is what set the stage for the post-Reagan restructuring of the party, a restructuring that saw the party abandon decades old constituencies such as labor in exchange for the aforementioned “business-friendlier” approach to corporations*, a harsher approach to crime, slashing welfare programs** and the like; a political philosophy known as “the third way,” trying to seek a middle ground between the old Democratic policies and those of the Right wing. Even following the end of his second term, Bill and Hillary had essentially amassed for themselves a level of power within the party apparatus that served to end the old era of the Democratic Party and entrench the DLC’s hold.

    There was some argument at the time that the rise of Obama and his victory over Hillary Clinton signaled the end for the grip the DLC faction held over the party (particularly with the dissolution of its constituent organizations as formal, discrete entities), but in retrospect it seems more that what happened was the DLC effectively became the Democratic Party’s leadership and organizing structure (and thus, the need for discrete organizations had ended; the job to remake the party in the wake of Reagan vs Carter and Mondale had been complete).

    But, as strong as the DLC’s grip became, and as much as the party was restructured in its founders’ image, there were still left wing Democrats and organizations out there and some still getting elected. And, while these fights were fairly in the background for much of that time, time continued to March on and the fallout of the DLC’s right wing policies began to take hold, supercharged by the efforts of the Right Wing’s pushes in the aughts: economic instability for the working class, the consolidation and monopolization of corporations, etc.

    And, in turn, a lot of old folks started retiring and passing on, making room for a new generation of progressives to start getting elected. Which brings us here, with the modern Congressional Progressive Caucus. For the first time in a while, there is a left wing faction of the Democratic Party that has enough seats to make trouble for those formed by decades of the DLC’s preferences, and fights that were once the shit you only heard about in fairly niche reporting, or inside the beltway political books, are now finally big enough you can see them play out in the mainstream.



    *indeed, Clinton would follow through on this quite well with a marathon of deregulatory bills signed into law, including the 1996 Telecommunications Act that paved the way for mass monopolization in the space, or the repeal of Glss-Steagall, argued by many to be a lynchpin in the general economic crises that would follow over the course of the following decade

    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    The 96 Telecommunications Act and the repeal of Glass-Stegal were both passed with overwhelming veto-proof majorities that are genuinely unbelievable in the modern context. Like the 96 TCA passed the House with over 400 votes and the Senate with like 90. Clinton vetoing or not was academic.

    Monwyn on
    uH3IcEi.png
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The 96 Telecommunications Act and the repeal of Glass-Stegal were both passed with overwhelming veto-proof majorities that are genuinely unbelievable in the modern context. Like the 96 TCA passed the House with over 400 votes and the Senate with like 90. Clinton vetoing or not was academic.

    Yeah the whole party was on board, which IMO to me kind of demonstrates that trying to do electoral politics without a social movement behind it is like putting the cart before the horse. The labor movement didn't collapse because the Dems went corporate -- the Dems went corporate because the labor movement collapsed. The individual politicians were just following the money and the power and the unions lost both.

    Hachface on
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The 96 Telecommunications Act and the repeal of Glass-Stegal were both passed with overwhelming veto-proof majorities that are genuinely unbelievable in the modern context. Like the 96 TCA passed the House with over 400 votes and the Senate with like 90. Clinton vetoing or not was academic.

    It's because the democrats were putting forward and passing republican legislation.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    I think the money and power angle gets real interesting when you consider the DLC’s founders, like before From courts Clinton in ‘89, were literally a bunch of party donors pissed about losing twice to Reagan.


    It feels like you can trace a thirty year line of Democratic policy making, candidate choices and practices from the present back to 1988 to “twenty donors decide to remake the party in their image”

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I think discussions of political parties should keep in mind the "iron law of institutions."
    The people who control institutions care first and foremost about their power within the institution rather than the power of the institution itself. Thus, they would rather the institution "fail" while they remain in power within the institution than for the institution to "succeed" if that requires them to lose power within the institution.

    This is true of the GOP, true of the Democrats, true of the UK Labor Party and the Tories. We see it in unions too; ask some Teamsters how they feel about Hoffa's leadership and you'll probably hear a description of something similar. National governments and corporations fall prey to this as well.

    Kaputa on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I think discussions of political parties should keep in mind the "iron law of institutions."
    The people who control institutions care first and foremost about their power within the institution rather than the power of the institution itself. Thus, they would rather the institution "fail" while they remain in power within the institution than for the institution to "succeed" if that requires them to lose power within the institution.

    This is true of the GOP, true of the Democrats, true of the UK Labor Party and the Tories. We see it in unions too; ask some Teamsters how they feel about Hoffa's leadership and you'll probably hear a description of something similar. National governments and corporations fall prey to this too.

    Without a doubt.

    One thing that's very encouraging about the current strike wave is that a lot of it is being driven by rank-and-file union members who are demanding more of leadership. I hope the militancy continues!

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The 96 Telecommunications Act and the repeal of Glass-Stegal were both passed with overwhelming veto-proof majorities that are genuinely unbelievable in the modern context. Like the 96 TCA passed the House with over 400 votes and the Senate with like 90. Clinton vetoing or not was academic.

    It's because the democrats were putting forward and passing republican legislation.

    To be clear, both the Telecommunications Act of 96 and the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act that repealed Glass-Stegal were originated by Republicans, and G-L-B got out of the Senate with a single D vote (though many more views for it after conference.)

    Like, not trying to whitewash the Democrats' ultimate complicity, just making sure we have the objective facts straight.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

    Even knowing its coming its astounding watching an entire apparatus dedicated to white washing class interests for the wealthy turn identity politics on the left.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

    Even knowing its coming its astounding watching an entire apparatus dedicated to white washing class interests for the wealthy turn identity politics on the left.

    Who would ever believe Sanders is racist? Isn’t there a pic of him being arrested at a civil rights rally?

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    The problem with the "Democrats suck and are hopeless" meme is its a self-fulfilling prophecy: it encourages people to turn off politics altogether.

    The reason why the Democrats suck is inherent in a big tent party: they address a lot of interest groups, and they aren't always focusing on yours. Meanwhile the Republicans are fairly united in white Christian nationalism, so their cultural appeals work a lot better for their core audience. Because they have less groups to focus on, they can address their feelings a lot more effectively.

    CelestialBadger on
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

    Even knowing its coming its astounding watching an entire apparatus dedicated to white washing class interests for the wealthy turn identity politics on the left.

    Who would ever believe Sanders is racist? Isn’t there a pic of him being arrested at a civil rights rally?
    The narrative I remember wasn't that Bernie was racist - I did see dumb posts like that, but only a couple - but that he talked about class too much and/or racism not enough. Which, for his first attempt, might have been a legitimate criticism, though I think he did well at promoting a more explicitly intersectional message during his second campaign.

    Kaputa on
  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    The problem with the "Democrats suck and are hopeless" meme is its a self-fulfilling prophecy: it encourages people to turn off politics altogether.

    The reason why the Democrats suck is inherent in a big tent party: they address a lot of interest groups, and they aren't always focusing on yours. Meanwhile the Republicans are fairly united in white Christian nationalism, so their cultural appeals work a lot better for their core audience. Because they have less groups to focus on, they can address their feelings a lot more effectively.

    why should laying out the reasons a political party sucks and is hopeless turn people off politics altogether? there are a lot of ways to be engaged politically that don't involve the democrats, and there's a bunch more besides that don't involve engaging with electoral politics at all. this is part of the problem, people in the democrat machine making like they're the only game in town and if you don't do it their way it's your fault personally when trump 2 gets in. that's a dogshit way of engaging people, they suck the life out of any alternative. that's a self-fulfilling prophecy

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

    Even knowing its coming its astounding watching an entire apparatus dedicated to white washing class interests for the wealthy turn identity politics on the left.

    Who would ever believe Sanders is racist? Isn’t there a pic of him being arrested at a civil rights rally?

    I've never seen anyone with actual influence call Sanders racist, or even imply it. What they did say is exactly the sort of thing Lanz is talking about. 2016 Sanders in particular (and large swathes of the Dem party in general, including both progressives and moderates) have been focusing away from race issues. He was significantly better about it in 2020.

    And it is a real problem. 538 had a pair of relevant articles about this recently. A lot of pro-POC policies scare white people. Those policies might even lose us elections here and there. But if the Dem party is seen as abandoning Black and Latino voters, it's going to cause a long term collapse in the party. That's before even getting to the fact that pro-POC policies are, you know, a great thing to have regardless of the politics.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    The problem with the "Democrats suck and are hopeless" meme is its a self-fulfilling prophecy: it encourages people to turn off politics altogether.

    The reason why the Democrats suck is inherent in a big tent party: they address a lot of interest groups, and they aren't always focusing on yours. Meanwhile the Republicans are fairly united in white Christian nationalism, so their cultural appeals work a lot better for their core audience. Because they have less groups to focus on, they can address their feelings a lot more effectively.

    Democrats sucking encourages it more than people calling it like it is.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I don’t think Democratic policy particularly reflects a strained, pulled in all directions lack of focus thanks to disparate interest groups their juggling. By and large they keep their donors happy, and back people who can keep the money flowing into the party and donate large portions of their schedule to keeping that money flowing and keeping up relationships with the party’s donors.


    Democratic leadership doesn’t have a “we can’t focus, there’s just too many people to serve problem;” they have a “we serve our wealthy donors” problem

    Which makes sense when, again, the post-Reagan reformation of the party was a project headed up by a group of party donors tired of losing

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    The whole "Democrats are a big tent" is an overrated truism I think

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    **arguably, another of the DLC’s turnabouts was its abandonment of the Black Community; it was never particularly shy about joining in with the right in cutting programs or outright attacking those that just so coincidentally happened to primarily benefit black Americans. Jesse Jackson once referred to the DLC as "Democrats for the Leisure Class,” and you could potentially make the argument that the DLC could be seen as a resurgence of the southern democrat, given its foundational members and their racial priorities

    Interesting. Especially interesting since it was the strategy of the conservative Democrats to call Bernie Sanders racist (either directly or through layers of abstractions and innuendo). This never passed the smell test but it was very effective at putting well-intentioned but naive left-wingers on their back foot.

    Even knowing its coming its astounding watching an entire apparatus dedicated to white washing class interests for the wealthy turn identity politics on the left.

    Who would ever believe Sanders is racist? Isn’t there a pic of him being arrested at a civil rights rally?

    He also responded "all lives matter" when asked to say "black lives matter" at a rally and handled a couple of protestors demanding justice for Sandra Bland pretty poorly. In a general sense he did a decidedly mediocre job tying his labor-populist message to institutional racism in his first go-round. It didn't come completely out of nowhere.

    Full disclosure, I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.

    Monwyn on
    uH3IcEi.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Monwyn wrote: »
    The 96 Telecommunications Act and the repeal of Glass-Stegal were both passed with overwhelming veto-proof majorities that are genuinely unbelievable in the modern context. Like the 96 TCA passed the House with over 400 votes and the Senate with like 90. Clinton vetoing or not was academic.

    I think this is a bit simplistic, the president and leader of his party being against something tends to steal votes for an intiative like that on his side of the aisle. Overriding Clinton's filibuster when he's more popular than you as a democratic politician would have been a gamble if you planned to run again

    override367 on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    It’s a running joke that The Green Party is a Russian front, but how much of that is true? I've seen stuff that indicates it’s not completely crazy to suspect bad faith Russian involvement in the Green Party.

    Jill Stein definitely had dirty Russian ties, but that seems to be as much just standard grifter / useful idiot spoiler stuff as any sort of active involvement. She had a lot less direct ties to Russia than the Trump Campaign and GOP at large.

    Now the GOP edit - Green Party has absolutely been buoyed and received funding by the GOP and their supporters as a direct spoiler for decades now.

    Yeah the Green Party is a Russian and GOP asset rather than a front because it can be so easily manipulated.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
This discussion has been closed.