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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - Tory Crime Week Begins With Tory MP Crime

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I would much, much rather try to put the effort in to fixing the BBC's News division as opposed to letting it disappear and risk GB News filling the vacuum.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    That's literally the definition of neutral.

    No, it's the definition of "balanced". That's where media consistently keeps fucking up.

    Neutral is reporting the truth, without bias, including calling out bad faith.

    Balanced is giving equal weight to both sides even when one side is acting in bad faith.

    Still better than the alternative (as we see with FOX News), but not good.

    That definition of balanced falsely implies that there are exactly two sides to every issue.

    Some issues only have one side. Some issues have many (more than two) sides.

    But this idea of "balance" comes with and from a two-party system. But it is not reflective of reality.

    That's the problem. If there's not two sides, "balanced media" allow the disaffected side (almost always conservatives) to make one up.

    Like as someone mentioned earlier, flat earthers. If conservatives took that up as a serious position, even if it's not fully in the affirmative, and more a "just asking questions, what do we really know?" position, "balanced" media would turn themselves into knots to try to give them a decent amount of time.

    Whereas neutral media would go "these people are crazy".

    In a multi-party system, who is "the other side"?

    This balance-is-exactly-two-sides is an artifact of de-facto two-party systems.

    (What they do in multi-polar systems is either invite a panel of multiple viewpoints, or someone who made an accusation and the one who's defending againts that accusation.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The problem of the destruction of the BBC is that fixing it rather than binning it is the only way “back” to a good British media landscape.

    The Tories installed apparatchiks in BBC leadership and have been using that to justify destroying the institution. And that sucks but you kind of just have to deal with it and fix it when you can because supporting the end of the BBC isn’t going to make things better

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I think tbh the BBC news' impartiality is essentially impossible in the modern political climate. There just aren't the same shared inviolable values any more and the BBC essentially can't deal with things like Brexit, Johnson etc. They're incapable of functionality in a world where one party just lies and breaks the law and the electorate believes it.

    MorganVBigJoeMKayne Red RobeNetscape
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Just thinking, if Sue Grey's legendary enquiry concludes that they technically get away with everything, do they actually think that'll end all this?
    I feel like the most likely outcome is they get accused of whitewashing on top of everything else they're already covered in.

    Going back a few pages, but there's no getting away from this with a weaksauce civil servant's report

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    Surely the leopard won't eat MY face

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    Surely the leopard won't eat MY face

    This leaves Brits dangerously uninformed about communist plots to expand broadband infrastructure

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    You are thinking about this the wrong way.

    Robbie Gibb ran the political output for the benefit of the Conservatives/Brexiters and is quite happy for the BBC to be wiped out as he would be able to het a job for the Cons quite easily (and indeed did so).

    How the BBC hierachy were so stupid as to put in such an important position is a gebnuine mystery.

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  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Would be pretty sad to see the BBCs children's content go, it's nice to not have to worry about a torrent of commercial advertising rammed into the kids eyeballs.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    I mean. The heads of the departments knew what they were doing. So if you’re a grunt your options are to get with the program or get fired now.

    Even if you knew it was coming that doesn’t mean they could stop it.

    Maybe if they unionized. But I doubt they would have had much success there for a variety of reasons
    It is kinda funny that BBC News worked so hard for conservatives and then ate the hatchet anyway

    You are thinking about this the wrong way.

    Robbie Gibb ran the political output for the benefit of the Conservatives/Brexiters and is quite happy for the BBC to be wiped out as he would be able to het a job for the Cons quite easily (and indeed did so).

    How the BBC hierachy were so stupid as to put in such an important position is a gebnuine mystery.

    The government appoints the BBC board* who then makes those primary hiring decisions for the BBC heads. it’s not a mystery. The Tories hold the government so they hold the BBC.

    *whichever iteration you want to go with. The board of Governors until 2007, the Trust until 2017 or the Board after 2017 they’re all appointed by the government of the day.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 16
    It's not a new playbook, it's almost exactly what conservatives are trying to do with the USPS

    Sabotage it to the point where people don't like it, then privatize it.

    Fencingsax on
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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Mirror running with another party revelation

    shrykeZilla360Solar
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Operation Slap Big Dog still going well.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
    Commander ZoomZilla360AntinumericSolar
  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Drip. Drip. Drip.

    Now this is how you do water torture.

    Zilla360
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Frequently during times like these I wonder what BoJo even wants to be PM for? Why is he facing down these constant dramas and shit storms when he could just not?

    Then I remember his reasons, in no particular order, an enormous entitlement that he is born to rule, his constant need to have his ego fed, the fact he has no useful skills or knowledge besides how to be a parasite on this particular society and that he will never have a better opportunity than this to line his pockets. That text message to the millionaire begging for wallpaper just tells you everything about him you'll ever need to know.

    Casual on
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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    At this point I imagine whoever is doing the leaking is screaming "Take the bloody hint already!". There has been enough released that he should have resigned several times over already.

    The defence adviser thing is interesting though, not least because it raises questions over the separation of government and military. He clearly seems to have been quite chummy with the current occupants given the parties he has attended or had thrown for him. To me, it raises questions over the appointment in the first place. While he's likely qualified for the job (having previously commanded HMS Defender from what I can find out), he entered a political role before being assigned possibly the most prestigious command in the Royal Navy. Did No 10 have a say in or directly influence that appointment? I'd rather not have 'politically loyal' stooges appointed to important posts in the military. Granted there's nothing to say that this happened (yet), but it would fit the MO of the current lot. Then of course there's the small matter of military discipline. The commander of HMS Queen Elizabeth was relieved of duty while the ship was at sea over misuse of a MoD car. He left the navy shortly after. If they're willing to go to those lengths over a company car, I'd expect Steve Higham to be removed from command as soon as possible for breaking lockdown rules.

    altid on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    At this point I imagine whoever is doing the leaking is screaming "Take the bloody hint already!". There has been enough released that he should have resigned several times over already.

    The problem is that we all think this kind of thing but rarely ever consider the mechanism that enforces it. Or the lack there of. What's gonna make him resign? The public can't vote him out till another election. All that can happen is his party forces him out. Or shame. Which conservatives have gradually realised is a pointless vestigial emotion in democratic systems. Why resign when you can just say "Fuck you, make me" and keep going.

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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    I'm sure some Tory MPs want Boris gone, but I'm genuinely curious if any of them want to sit in the big chair right now. 3 years, during which we'll continue to get hit by Brexit and while the pandemic still isn't over, isn't a very promising career opportunity.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    I'm sure some Tory MPs want Boris gone, but I'm genuinely curious if any of them want to sit in the big chair right now. 3 years, during which we'll continue to get hit by Brexit and while the pandemic still isn't over, isn't a very promising career opportunity.

    You have to understand that these aren't very bright people, most of whom probably don't quite realize how out of hand things are.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    At this point I imagine whoever is doing the leaking is screaming "Take the bloody hint already!". There has been enough released that he should have resigned several times over already.

    The problem is that we all think this kind of thing but rarely ever consider the mechanism that enforces it. Or the lack there of. What's gonna make him resign? The public can't vote him out till another election. All that can happen is his party forces him out. Or shame. Which conservatives have gradually realised is a pointless vestigial emotion in democratic systems. Why resign when you can just say "Fuck you, make me" and keep going.

    Yep. Even from the outside, Boris's entire political career has been about trying to get to No. 10. Combine that with his lack of shame, and he's not leaving until he's forced to.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    one cabinet member commenting that they can tell the situation is perilous "Because he [Boris] has started reading his briefing papers"

    obF2Wuw.png
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    one cabinet member commenting that they can tell the situation is perilous "Because he [Boris] has started reading his briefing papers"

    Really is the British Trump, for fuck's sake

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    one cabinet member commenting that they can tell the situation is perilous "Because he [Boris] has started reading his briefing papers"

    Really is the British Trump, for fuck's sake

    Well... no.

    Trump wouldn't do that.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    I found the two differences!

    Do I get a prize?

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  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    I get the impression that Johnson doesn't actually understand what apologies are. Like at a deep fundamental level.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    I found the two differences!

    Do I get a prize?

    Well there are several: One off, much more emotionally understandable than a piss up, but yeah, I'm reminded of "eat crow when it is young and tender, or you will eat it when it is old and tough".

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    I found the two differences!

    Do I get a prize?

    Well there are several: One off, much more emotionally understandable than a piss up, but yeah, I'm reminded of "eat crow when it is young and tender, or you will eat it when it is old and tough".

    Also, unless I'm mistaken, the Sturgeon thing was a singular. If this had been one instance of a pissup at Downing Street, it might have been forgiven.

    Instead, it appears to have been common practice, with repeated attendances, and at least knowledge of, by the Prime Minister.

    It's one thing to make a mistake. It's another to think it's OK to continue to do so.

    Gnome-InterruptusJazzFencingsaxRingoShadowen
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    I found the two differences!

    Do I get a prize?

    Well there are several: One off, much more emotionally understandable than a piss up, but yeah, I'm reminded of "eat crow when it is young and tender, or you will eat it when it is old and tough".

    Also, unless I'm mistaken, the Sturgeon thing was a singular. If this had been one instance of a pissup at Downing Street, it might have been forgiven.

    Instead, it appears to have been common practice, with repeated attendances, and at least knowledge of, by the Prime Minister.

    It's one thing to make a mistake. It's another to think it's OK to continue to do so.

    But it's okay because he's going to address the Downing Street culture as if he has had no impact on it at all!

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    The other comparison being drawn is that the Scottish Chief Medical Officer resigned over having traveled to her holiday home, without any contact with any other people, in contravention of the guidelines

    When it turns out that at the same time Johnson was constantly commuting between London and Hampshire

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited January 17
    Sometime last year I vaguely recall a hullabaloo in Scotland over Nicola Sturgeon going to a funeral in contravention of the guidelines at the time, but she apologised and everyone moved on. While there is a difference of both kind and scale to this, it's interesting to compare.

    Going to the funeral was within guidelines. What happened was was at the wake after the funeral she briefly removed her mask will speaking to some old ladies at a table on the way out of the venue.

    The political press was absolutely livivd that Sturgeon immediately unreservedly apologised and everyone moved on. They were so furious that a whole week of "Sturgeon under pressure/ Sturgeon Hypocrisy" headlines had to be ditched. Harry Cole was just incandescent with rage, it was glorious.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    A bit of a scandal brewing with regards to Northern Ireland at the minute.
    There's a hard rule for the local assembley that you can not be both an MLA and an MP at the same time - or double jobbing in other words. This was finally impletemented, after years of intertia, in 2016 and was a direct response to certain parties (i.e. the DUP) taking the piss by holding up to three positions at once (MP, MLA, MEP) and collecting the salary for all of them. The restriction is very popular over here and forces people to commit to one institution and job. Apparently this might not be a rule with other devolved parliaments?

    In the past week or so, the government suddently proposed 'temporarily suspending' this provision until the next general election. Why could that be? Well, as you may know, NI has local elections coming up this year and the DUP has a problem. Or rather, Jeffery Donaldson has a problem. He can't take the First Minister role because he isn't an MLA. To stand for election to the assembley he would have to give up his MP's seat and trigger a by election - and it's not one that they'd be guaranteed victory in anymore. The Alliance Party vote surged in the last election and it's much less certain that a replacement would get an easy ride. So the whole purpose is to give the DUP and Donaldson a safety blanket so they can slot him into stormont risk free. The DUP of course claim they had 'no idea' about the plans, despite being tailored exactly to suit them and only them. Coincidentally, they've also been quiet on their threats to bring down the assembly in the last week. Every other party is opposed to the move.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/17/row-erupts-over-plan-to-allow-double-jobbing-in-northern-ireland-politics

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    That's the second significant time in recent memory I've heard of Boris blundering into local affairs here, along with unilaterally declaring an end to Troubles-era investigations. If I were Nicola Sturgeon I'd pay close attention.

    altid
  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    A bit of a scandal brewing with regards to Northern Ireland at the minute.
    There's a hard rule for the local assembly that you can not be both an MLA and an MP at the same time - or double jobbing in other words. This was finally implemented, after years of inertia, in 2016 and was a direct response to certain parties (i.e. the DUP) taking the piss by holding up to three positions at once (MP, MLA, MEP) and collecting the salary for all of them. The restriction is very popular over here and forces people to commit to one institution and job. Apparently this might not be a rule with other devolved parliaments?

    In the past week or so, the government suddenly proposed 'temporarily suspending' this provision until the next general election. Why could that be? Well, as you may know, NI has local elections coming up this year and the DUP has a problem. Or rather, Jeffery Donaldson has a problem. He can't take the First Minister role because he isn't an MLA. To stand for election to the assembly he would have to give up his MP's seat and trigger a by election - and it's not one that they'd be guaranteed victory in anymore. The Alliance Party vote surged in the last election and it's much less certain that a replacement would get an easy ride. So the whole purpose is to give the DUP and Donaldson a safety blanket so they can slot him into Stormont risk free. The DUP of course claim they had 'no idea' about the plans, despite being tailored exactly to suit them and only them. Coincidentally, they've also been quiet on their threats to bring down the assembly in the last week. Every other party is opposed to the move.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/17/row-erupts-over-plan-to-allow-double-jobbing-in-northern-ireland-politics

    I am always astounded at shamelessness of the DUP, they almost succeed in making Johnson look contrite by comparison.

    sig.gif
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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Oh hey, some good news


    Great news! The Government has just lost key votes on its authoritarian #PolicingBill in the House of Lords.

    Let's keep up the pressure so the whole reactionary Bill is kicked into the dustbin of history.

    (Richard Burgdon is the Labour MP for East Leeds)

    Hooray for the unelected house of toffs and sycophants!

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 18
    "Nobody told me about these rules I told you about."


    "I carry full responsibility for what took place, but nobody said to me that this was an event that is against the rules."

    Boris Johnson recalls what he remembers about an alleged party in the Downing Street garden during lockdown.

    Echo on
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Maybe you should have asked?

    GiantGeek2020altidShadowen
  • BogartBogart Turn Around, Bright Eyes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I had no idea parties were against the rules, rules which I set up and which outlawed parties.

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    "I take full responsibility, which is why I'm making an excuse for why I shouldn't be held responsible"

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