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Maybe the real [Heroes of the Storm] were the friends we made along the way

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Rehgar has like a 60% winrate this patch. That's about as close to "mandatory first-ban material" as a Hero ever gets in HotS.

    MNC DoverA Dabble Of TheloniusMunkus Beaver
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It's so stupid because it's blatantly obvious how powerful the totem is. The second he plops that thing down, you can't even attack it fast enough to kill it, let alone attack the other team.

    milk ducksMMMig
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    the totem is stupid to kill and its obnoxious what abilities will actually hit it sometimes - the fun part is his other builds are all over 60% wr as well

    PSN SeGaTai
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    It'd be nice if it handed out block instead of AS slow so AA heroes could kill the thing. If I can micro well enough to target it, it shouldn't live through 4 seconds of Raynor AAs.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    TBH he could have ended it a lot earlier but burnt a bunch of time doing meme turret setups

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Rehgar has like a 60% winrate this patch. That's about as close to "mandatory first-ban material" as a Hero ever gets in HotS.

    I play a healer in QP because I am an idiot but I can say I have gotten a lot more wtfs with Rehgar lately
    v2bvr6yjihhc.jpg

    MNC Dovermilk ducksWhelkMMMigApogee
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Rehgar has like a 60% winrate this patch. That's about as close to "mandatory first-ban material" as a Hero ever gets in HotS.

    60% winrate for the playerbase normally means someone in staff is getting fed to a woodchipper.

    But we don't have enough staff left and the woodchipper was let go last march.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    The woodchipper was actually head of employee concerns in HR, too!

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
    milk ducksMNC Dover
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    The woodchipper was actually head of employee concerns in HR, too!

    Tough but fair

    MNC DoverMunkus BeaverfortyApogee
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Evidently, Blizzard is developing a new IP -- some kind of currently unannounced Survival game. I'm curious to find out whether or not this ends up being the world / setting that Qhira is from. It's always bothered me that Heroes of the Storm is a "Blizzard All-Stars"-type of game, but then Qhira's just ... there, for some reason. Orphea is at least from the Nexus. She's tied into the lore of Heroes of the Storm, and I'm okay with that. But I've always wondered if Qhira came from a Map that never ended up releasing for HotS, or if she were from some project that hadn't been announced yet (or was scrapped at some point), or if she was just created from nothing.

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    WhelkIvellius
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The reports are that even the most disillusioned ABK employees think that new game is good.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    I thought Qhira was explicitly from the, uh, the desert realm(?) of the Nexus. On release, wasn't there some lore going along with her? It was brief, not nearly the treatment Orphea got, but I'm pretty sure they talked about where she was supposed to be from and how she became a mercenary(?).

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Saeris wrote: »
    I thought Qhira was explicitly from the, uh, the desert realm(?) of the Nexus.

    Luxoria? Nah, she's from Iresia, which was a once technologically advanced realm full of "ornate orbital sculptures and gilded mega-cities", but was torn apart by a singularity. She escaped the collapse, and is searching the Nexus for other survivors. There's just no other content in the game from Iresia: no Iresian wasteland map; no character skins (outside of Qhira's default set); no announcers; no comic mini-series; etc.

    And don't get me wrong, I don't think it needs those things, necessarily (and we'll almost certainly never get them at this point), I've just always been curious whether or not Iresia was a Nexus-original realm that they never got a chance to develop, or if Qhira came from some other Blizzard game that was in development but got canceled and all the work for HotS was finished so they just kept her, or what.

    I've always figured like, if they wanted to have a character of color from a technologically-advanced culture torn apart by conflict, they could have just had Qhira come from Numbani in Overwatch -- it would have saved them the trouble of having to design her realm from scratch, while also tying her more directly into the rest of the Blizzard universe.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Speaking of Numbani, Orisa is one of the characters I'd most like to see transition into HotS. And Doomfist would fit pretty much perfectly into our existing melee assassin lineup.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It's too bad they couldn't get Reinhardt to work. I'm guessing if they couldn't get the shield to work for him then they wouldn't be able to get it to work for Orisa, either...

    MNC Dovermilk ducks
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    It's too bad they couldn't get Reinhardt to work. I'm guessing if they couldn't get the shield to work for him then they wouldn't be able to get it to work for Orisa, either...

    Was that confirmed as the reason why? I know it was speculated, but I was always a bit suspicious since they had similar tech wayyyyyy back in the SC2 beta. Felt odd that they couldn't adapt that for Reinhardt.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    It's too bad they couldn't get Reinhardt to work. I'm guessing if they couldn't get the shield to work for him then they wouldn't be able to get it to work for Orisa, either...

    Was that confirmed as the reason why? I know it was speculated, but I was always a bit suspicious since they had similar tech wayyyyyy back in the SC2 beta. Felt odd that they couldn't adapt that for Reinhardt.

    All the deets here: https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Reinhardt
    Reinhardt presents several challenges to the team that we haven't been able to cleanly solve in a way we are happy with.

    The first of these is of course, his barrier. Blocking projectiles isn't a huge problem, but blocking AOE abilities is! I think everyone would expect basic attacks or abilities like Frostbolt and Hungering Arrow to be blocked but what about abilities like Cone of Cold or Multishot? Then of course there's the case of abilities like Flamestrike simply being able to be cast behind Reinhardt's barrier. Should basic attacks like Tassadar's beam be blocked by the shield if the targeted hero moves behind it? At the end of the day, we felt there would just be a ton of confusion as to which abilities pass the shield and which shouldn't, plus the fact that it would be a massive amount of work to do a sweep through the game and add special cases for all of the things that shouldn't bypass the shield as well. We wouldn't be able to dedicate a lot of Reinhardt's power pie to his shield which is unfortunate because that's one of the most unique aspects of his overall kit.

    Next is the rest of his kit. His charge is very similar to Diablo's charge or Stukov's heroic Massive Shove. His projectile attack is nearly identical to Varian's Q ability, Lion's Fang. We would have to put a lot of work into redesigning his kit or making it feel uniquely different from other heroes we already have in the game.

    Because of these and several other factors, we ultimately came to the decision that Reinhardt would simply be too much work and require too much engineering time to make everything work the way we wanted it to and in a reasonable time frame. That being said, the team has a long list of Heroes that we would love to bring to the game, so while we are working on new Heroes we'll definitely keep Reinhardt in mind. It's not uncommon to have Heroes on the backburner until we get the right inspiration or ideas to make them the best they can be for Heroes!

    For Orisa the AOE and point-and-click blocking would still be an issue, unfortunately. I haven't played Overwatch in years but if she still has the self-root/barrier effect then I think that's viable just by making her stay in place and then creating an invisible wall around her unit, as a start.

    milk ducksA Dabble Of Theloniusforty
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Would have been real easy to have it block projectiles and give a zone behind the shield that gives armor of some sort. Like a reverse version of DVA's Defense Matrix.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    It's too bad they couldn't get Reinhardt to work. I'm guessing if they couldn't get the shield to work for him then they wouldn't be able to get it to work for Orisa, either...

    Was that confirmed as the reason why? I know it was speculated, but I was always a bit suspicious since they had similar tech wayyyyyy back in the SC2 beta. Felt odd that they couldn't adapt that for Reinhardt.

    All the deets here: https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Reinhardt
    Reinhardt presents several challenges to the team that we haven't been able to cleanly solve in a way we are happy with.

    The first of these is of course, his barrier. Blocking projectiles isn't a huge problem, but blocking AOE abilities is! I think everyone would expect basic attacks or abilities like Frostbolt and Hungering Arrow to be blocked but what about abilities like Cone of Cold or Multishot? Then of course there's the case of abilities like Flamestrike simply being able to be cast behind Reinhardt's barrier. Should basic attacks like Tassadar's beam be blocked by the shield if the targeted hero moves behind it? At the end of the day, we felt there would just be a ton of confusion as to which abilities pass the shield and which shouldn't, plus the fact that it would be a massive amount of work to do a sweep through the game and add special cases for all of the things that shouldn't bypass the shield as well. We wouldn't be able to dedicate a lot of Reinhardt's power pie to his shield which is unfortunate because that's one of the most unique aspects of his overall kit.

    Next is the rest of his kit. His charge is very similar to Diablo's charge or Stukov's heroic Massive Shove. His projectile attack is nearly identical to Varian's Q ability, Lion's Fang. We would have to put a lot of work into redesigning his kit or making it feel uniquely different from other heroes we already have in the game.

    Because of these and several other factors, we ultimately came to the decision that Reinhardt would simply be too much work and require too much engineering time to make everything work the way we wanted it to and in a reasonable time frame. That being said, the team has a long list of Heroes that we would love to bring to the game, so while we are working on new Heroes we'll definitely keep Reinhardt in mind. It's not uncommon to have Heroes on the backburner until we get the right inspiration or ideas to make them the best they can be for Heroes!

    For Orisa the AOE and point-and-click blocking would still be an issue, unfortunately. I haven't played Overwatch in years but if she still has the self-root/barrier effect then I think that's viable just by making her stay in place and then creating an invisible wall around her unit, as a start.

    Ahhh, that explanation makes a ton of sense yeah.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The problem goes back to them using the Starcraft II engine for this game.

    Other MOBAs can handle the 'wall that blocks projectiles only' fine.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
    WhelkMNC Dover
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The problem goes back to them using the Starcraft II engine for this game.

    Other MOBAs can handle the 'wall that blocks projectiles only' fine.

    That they can do! The issue was "blocks projectiles and other things that aren't technically projectiles but that it makes sense the wall would block anyways yeah?"

    The SC2 engine could block projectiles in Beta.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    kime wrote: »
    The problem goes back to them using the Starcraft II engine for this game.

    Other MOBAs can handle the 'wall that blocks projectiles only' fine.

    That they can do! The issue was "blocks projectiles and other things that aren't technically projectiles but that it makes sense the wall would block anyways yeah?"

    The SC2 engine could block projectiles in Beta.

    That quote just said they had a hard time differentiating between 'projectiles' and 'aoe' and things like Tassadars AA. Which is not a problem in the other MOBAs.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    The problem goes back to them using the Starcraft II engine for this game.

    Other MOBAs can handle the 'wall that blocks projectiles only' fine.

    That they can do! The issue was "blocks projectiles and other things that aren't technically projectiles but that it makes sense the wall would block anyways yeah?"

    The SC2 engine could block projectiles in Beta.

    That quote just said they had a hard time differentiating between 'projectiles' and 'aoe' and things like Tassadars AA. Which is not a problem in the other MOBAs.

    Or like Multishot. Or some other AOE which isn't a projectile.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it. I'm saying you saying they couldn't block "projectiles" specifically was wrong :P

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    kime wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The problem goes back to them using the Starcraft II engine for this game.

    Other MOBAs can handle the 'wall that blocks projectiles only' fine.

    That they can do! The issue was "blocks projectiles and other things that aren't technically projectiles but that it makes sense the wall would block anyways yeah?"

    The SC2 engine could block projectiles in Beta.

    That quote just said they had a hard time differentiating between 'projectiles' and 'aoe' and things like Tassadars AA. Which is not a problem in the other MOBAs.

    Or like Multishot. Or some other AOE which isn't a projectile.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it. I'm saying you saying they couldn't block "projectiles" specifically was wrong :P

    ...ok we're kinda talking around each other here. I'm saying that the other MOBAs define certain attacks as projectiles regardless of whether they are ranged or not. The AoE aspect is irrelevant, as is the ranged aspect.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
    Smrtnik
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    It's not that they can't, they certainly can code every ability for its interaction with a shield - it's that it will probably feel oddly arbitrary for some things - are all skill shots projectiles; does multi-shot get stopped by the shield, does hunter's arrow? Does that make sense to the player or is it only basic attacks?

    Either way - the direct conversion of Reinhardt's shield to hots is such a powerful ability they would have to make his shield relatively weak, and not actually the huge function of his kit. It would either be busted or useless; so there is no possible win for the dev team. They have to spend a bunch of time coding each ability and the result is either something everyone complains about being OP or is trivial and no one likes using.

    Then they basically admit they would probably have to do something like probius - where they invent a kit for a character that doesn't actually fit what everyone thinks of for that hero, which again neither the players or the devs getting anything out of they feel good about.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    AOE effects are clearly fundamentally different to projectiles in the in-game engine. This actually makes a lot of sense, and I wouldn't be surprised if even a from-the-ground-up engine had the same problem.

    Flamestrike, for example, doesn't have an associated projectile. It probably works by defining an area on the ground and checking if you are touching the circle at Time T - if so then you take X Damage. So the workaround to this would likely be something along the lines of "if Reinhardt's shield is touching the Flamestrike circle, then the damage is negated".

    Actually, in the case of Flamestrike it's probably OK because the decision there would be to allow the damage to go through regardless, since it's coming up "from the ground". A better example may be Living Bomb, which has a directionality component. The game now has to compute Reinhardt's shield placement in relation to anything behind it in order to prevent the damage. Which may be feasible but likely requires a ton of extra work, or may even require the addition of extra parameters that didn't previously exist, which could in turn impact the actual performance of the game.

    forty
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I still think my solution is the easiest. Could also just do a shield that covers everyone but shares the damage similarly to that Alexstrasza ult until the shield breaks.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I seem to remember they also had issues with creating a wall that blocked projectiles from one way only using the SC2 engine.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I seem to remember they also had issues with creating a wall that blocked projectiles from one way only using the SC2 engine.

    pfffft

    OK I didn't think this was the case, but it'd be hilarious if it were. If so I bet that's part of the reason they removed this ability wayyyy back in SC2!

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I wouldn't be surprised if they removed it in SC2 simply because it was too OP. The original concept was ridiculous when you think about it for more than 30 seconds:
    https://youtu.be/B-g07jrJeOc

    It also dramatically increases the number of potential objects on the screen, which is always something that needs to be managed.

    kimeforty
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    "and here I thought a new hero was announced..."
    - Dibby, circa every friggin time

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    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Someone here had asked which ult in the game does the most damage?

    Someone answered theoretically it could be Mal'Ganis' Dark Conversion.

    I just realized the theoretical answer tonight: Orphea's Eternal Feast.

    MrBody on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Bronze, where theory becomes reality.

    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Eternal Feast on a Molten Core Rag is my favorite thing

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    There was that short period of time where Eternal Feast would infinitely proc on the Volskaya Protector, which would not only eventually kill it but would also prevent people from getting in the damn thing in the first place.

    Munkus BeaverSmrtnikkimefortyMNC Dovermilk ducksA Dabble Of TheloniusMMMigtyrantula22Whelk
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I love how this thread feels like geezers reminiscing about the World Series from 50 years ago, but it's "the time this bug was in the game for a week" or "the time QM made real comps for a week".

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    The real geezer member berries are the moments like Thrall's first couple weeks.

    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
    Smrtnik
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    There was that short period of time where Eternal Feast would infinitely proc on the Volskaya Protector, which would not only eventually kill it but would also prevent people from getting in the damn thing in the first place.

    lmao I forgot about that

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    I've been thinking a lot lately about Tassadar's original kit, and I actually think it would be like giga-OP if it were reintroduced today. For those who don't remember, it was: Plasma Shield on Q (chunky shield, similar to Zarya's); then W was Psionic Storm (decent waveclear and fake-damage poke); E was Dimensional Shift (personal defensive, invisibility and invulnerability); then at 10 he could choose between Archon and Force Wall (both similar to the way they work today). That's ... real fucking strong, actually. In retrospect, I think the only issue was ever that he had been classified as a Support, which at that time just meant Healer. Blizzard would later subdivide that category, with proper Healers like Alex and Stukov and Li Li, and Supports as others like Zarya and Medivh and Abathur. I honestly believe that OG Tassadar would have fit into the current Support category really well, and that his original kit, which was much derided at the time, would probably be considered overpowered in today's game.

    Imagine Zarya's ability to provide external defensives to others on a similar (as I recall, shorter) cooldown, but with built-in waveclear, and a personal defensive baked into the core abilities that gave you Invis and Invuln. Plus the ability to check bushes and reveal invis targets with Oracle.

    And everyone used to think he was trash, lol.

    milk ducks on
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