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The Kyle Rittenhouse Thread In Which We Take As a Given That Kyle Was Wrong and Stupid

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  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    Knuckle Dragger on
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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    I never trusted Legal Eagle, his face is too big. (and he is a lawyer)

    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    Oh, and for those asking what might have happened if Rittenhouse were black, Buzzfeed recently did a piece on the upcoming Marc Wilson trial:

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/marc-wilson-self-defense-case

    The short of it is that a truck full of white kids pulled up next to an African-American driver and his white girlfriend, and, according to the defendant, began yelling racial slurs, then tried to run them off the road into a ditch. The driver shot under the vehicle, at which point they heard a loud bang (police believe it may have been a beer bottle thrown at the car). Thinking it was gunfire, the driver shot into the cab of the truck and killed a passenger.

    The teens in the truck admitted to having been drinking on the road (though we’re not tested for BAL), and gave stories that conflicted with those of witnesses (and in the case of one who was arrested for obstruction, himself).

    Wilson turned himself in, and his lawyers are claiming self defense. There are third party witnesses to the start of the encounter, where one of the teens leaned out of the truck to yell at Wilson. He was denied bail, on the grounds that he posed a danger to the community. That was two months before Kenosha, and he is still being held without bail. He is expected to go to trial early next year.

    Any bets on whether or not the judge lets the prosecution call the deceased a victim?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    It's also just a really popular american patriotic song. It's not weird or obscure. He could just like shitty country.

    shryke on
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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    shryke wrote: »
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    It's also just a really popular american patriotic song. It's not weird or obscure. He could just like shitty country.
    He is a wealthy lawyer and YouTuber. So in his eyes, even with a shitty President and things to crap he’s doing pretty well in this country.

    zepherin on
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    It's also just a really popular american patriotic song. It's not weird or obscure. He could just like shitty country.

    It was, 20 years ago. It’s recent popularity has been entirely due to its association with Trump.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    It's also just a really popular american patriotic song. It's not weird or obscure. He could just like shitty country.

    It was, 20 years ago. It’s recent popularity has been entirely due to its association with Trump.

    And this guy is 75 and has been on the bench since before most people on this forum were born. From what I can tell looking up the song, he's served on that bench through no less then 5 times the song has been popular. It's a pretty slender reed to build a case on.

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  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Yeah, I remember when the ringtone came up and people immediately started assuming it was a rock solid Trumper tell and I also have reasonable doubts. Trump doesn't own that song and it's been popular in cycles for decades long before Trump was a thing. Lee Greenwood has been a Republican go to celebrity since like Reagan at least too. That's like one of the most popular patriotic songs ever.

    Now, the judge probably is a big Trump lovin far right good old boy Republican and there's plenty of other circumstantial evidence to suggest that, but I really don't think such a big deal should be made of the ringtone. I don't think Trump should get to take that over.

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  • minor incidentminor incident Quincentuple Your Money! Registered User regular
    But also, that song sucks ass and the trump people can keep it.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The song may not mean you’re a trumper but I would posit that the correlation between people who liked the song (especially a lot) and Trumpism is pretty strong. This is probably the case regardless of when they added the ringtone. Or when they came to like the song

    (Also having the ringtone implies that you, as a political and public person, did not realize it would be political in the last 5 years… this is highly unlikely)

    In short, no, the ringtone is pretty good evidence.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The song may not mean you’re a trumper but I would posit that the correlation between people who liked the song (especially a lot) and Trumpism is pretty strong. This is probably the case regardless of when they added the ringtone. Or when they came to like the song

    (Also having the ringtone implies that you, as a political and public person, did not realize it would be political in the last 5 years… this is highly unlikely)

    In short, no, the ringtone is pretty good evidence.

    Yeah, the two most likely probabilities is he's a Trumper, or he's remarkably out of touch for someone who shouldn't be, given the power he has over others.

    Especially given the political nature of the case he was ruling on.

    So, basically, it doesn't really matter if it was malice or ignorance.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Eh he can have whatever ringtone

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  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Xantomas wrote: »
    Yeah, I remember when the ringtone came up and people immediately started assuming it was a rock solid Trumper tell and I also have reasonable doubts. Trump doesn't own that song and it's been popular in cycles for decades long before Trump was a thing. Lee Greenwood has been a Republican go to celebrity since like Reagan at least too. That's like one of the most popular patriotic songs ever.

    Now, the judge probably is a big Trump lovin far right good old boy Republican and there's plenty of other circumstantial evidence to suggest that, but I really don't think such a big deal should be made of the ringtone. I don't think Trump should get to take that over.

    I agree with the strong correlation between liking that song and being a Trumper/Republican, and think it is a stretch to automatically assume anyone using it, especially someone that does appear as out of touch as this judge, knows that it’s the Trump rally song.

    Maybe it’s because I’m out of touch or not a Trumper, but I wouldn’t know off the top of my head that he uses the song until I was told.

    LabelXantomas
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The ringtone, as with several other things, suggests in the least he's a Republican i.e. a scumbag

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Holy shit it's a ringtone who cares?

    The judge has done plenty of real actual things to show he is a shithead we don't need to read the tea leaves on his choice of ringtone which happens to be a fairly common jingoistic song. Maybe he is secretly signaling to the white supremacist fascists that he is really on their side, or maybe he just likes the song.

    Either way, he sucks independently of the use of that song.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The point was “should you have been worried when you heard that song” the answer was yes. It is indicative information

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    You should always keep your phone on vibrate. Even just using a ringtone is what malevolent misanthropes do.

    *no offense to any malevolent misanthropes in the thread

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    There's an entire subset of Conservative America that is probably less racist than the most vocal Trumpkins, but have this weird genuine belief in all the jingoistic garbage about America The Beautiful. They're usually really well-off, educated, and successful.

    The part that makes them horrible is because this country caters to them specifically, they don't think anything should ever change and fight back against said change, and remain intentionally oblivious to anything like say Ahmed Arbery.

    I can easily see this judge being in that group.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles.

    Anyways, the OK sign has been understood by civil rights groups for years now as an intentional trolling shibboleth for alt-righters to own the libs with.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles

    Yeah so don't help them out

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
    valhalla130
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    Yeah, I was pretty on board with his first video, which was mostly a defense of the jury, but this one is way too unwilling to point out clearly objectionable behavior. His handwaving of the zoom incident in particular was pretty bad. I mean, yeah, prosecution should be ready with expert witnesses, but I don't think a reasonable person would have expected to need an expert witness to explain fucking zooming in on a picture, and giving them 20 minutes to produce one was insulting.

    You wouldn't expect to need an expert witness to explain televisions because when you push a button, the magic picture box shows you an image of evidence. You wouldn't expect to need one to prove that the evidence bag isn't altering light waves to make the piece of evidence look different. And this one is roughly as stupid as those examples.

    I object to this legal video.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles

    Yeah so don't help them out

    As the SPLC article I linked (and you removed from your quote of my post) points out, context is key for understanding if ambiguous gestures have an intended nefariousness or not.

    While I don't believe that the judge's phone going off during the trial was a deliberate troll, his choice of ringtone is not irrelevant when discussing if the judge had a bias because of the obvious political associations of the song.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles

    Yeah so don't help them out

    As the SPLC article I linked (and you removed from your quote of my post) points out, context is key for understanding if ambiguous gestures have an intended nefariousness or not.

    While I don't believe that the judge's phone going off during the trial was a deliberate troll, his choice of ringtone is not irrelevant when discussing if the judge had a bias because of the obvious political associations of the song.

    I didn't think it was relevant because he wasn't flashing hate signs in court.

    Step 2 of the process is to establish context. Step 1 is to determine which signs should raise a flag. If you want to establish some country song as a flag raiser, get consensus first.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    What consensus do you want in a forum topic past it being notable enough to warrant discussion from multiple users?

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Legal Eagle did another video, this time regarding the Nudge’s (you know what… I’m leaving that typo) actions:



    Several points are reasonable, but he completely avoids the dismissal of the curfew and weapons charges. Also his appeal to ridicule regarding the ringtone incident made me lose a lot of respect for him. (it wasn’t a “racist ringtone”; it was literally the MAGA entrance theme)

    Yeah, I was pretty on board with his first video, which was mostly a defense of the jury, but this one is way too unwilling to point out clearly objectionable behavior. His handwaving of the zoom incident in particular was pretty bad. I mean, yeah, prosecution should be ready with expert witnesses, but I don't think a reasonable person would have expected to need an expert witness to explain fucking zooming in on a picture, and giving them 20 minutes to produce one was insulting.

    You wouldn't expect to need an expert witness to explain televisions because when you push a button, the magic picture box shows you an image of evidence. You wouldn't expect to need one to prove that the evidence bag isn't altering light waves to make the piece of evidence look different. And this one is roughly as stupid as those examples.

    I object to this legal video.
    They did have an expert witness there the previous day. But the prosecution could have listed the evidence as a line item.
    Drone video.
    Drone video zoomed in using pinch and zoom.

    He took that for granted because it’s pretty established technology that folks use every day. And the defense used a tickey tack objection to fuck up the prosecutions flow. I don’t think he expected the objection to be sustained. And the defense would have objected to something else if it was overruled. The point was to be disruptive. Did the prosecution lose anything by just throwing it on a big tv in front of the jury? Not really it still showed Kyle pointing his gun. And Rosenbaums hands in the air.

    zepherin on
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    What consensus do you want in a forum topic past it being notable enough to warrant discussion from multiple users?

    Get at least most people here to agree it's a dogwhistle if you're gonna assume it's a dogwhistle I guess, because if you can't do that, going beyond this bubble is a non-starter.

    I have no control over what is discussed here, which is great. I just got set off by Goumindong's comment because I was like "isn't that the definition of prejudice, dude? Shouldn't we be careful around stuff like that?"

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles

    Yeah so don't help them out

    As the SPLC article I linked (and you removed from your quote of my post) points out, context is key for understanding if ambiguous gestures have an intended nefariousness or not.

    While I don't believe that the judge's phone going off during the trial was a deliberate troll, his choice of ringtone is not irrelevant when discussing if the judge had a bias because of the obvious political associations of the song.

    I didn't think it was relevant because he wasn't flashing hate signs in court.

    Step 2 of the process is to establish context. Step 1 is to determine which signs should raise a flag. If you want to establish some country song as a flag raiser, get consensus first.

    The song is not being used as a “this man is clearly a white supremacist and he is signaling to other white supremacists” but “this man probably has bias and this is an identifier of that bias.”

    Is every person that tells you “heritage not hate” dog whistling? No. But are you able to infer other political leanings from that statement? Yes.

    LegalEagle saying to ignore it is wrong. It’s evidence of the judges bias.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    The judge has been pretty open and up front about his bias and how hard he was sandbagging the prosecution. It's all there in court records and testimony. The ringtone might be bias or just a song some old white dude likes.

    You don't need to go all Pepe Silva with a ringtone when there are like 100 more clear and obvious signs of him being biased to the white murderer.

    Like arguing that ignorance of the law is like, not Kyle's fault man. Or blocking evidence that establishes prior intent to go and kill people. Etc.

    Its frankly an exhausting discussion and maybe it was a right wing shibboleth but also maybe a old ass well off white judge is just as he appears - a old ass well off white dude in a position of power. Either way.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    What consensus do you want in a forum topic past it being notable enough to warrant discussion from multiple users?

    Get at least most people here to agree it's a dogwhistle if you're gonna assume it's a dogwhistle I guess, because if you can't do that, going beyond this bubble is a non-starter.

    I have no control over what is discussed here, which is great. I just got set off by Goumindong's comment because I was like "isn't that the definition of prejudice, dude? Shouldn't we be careful around stuff like that?"

    Isn’t what the definition of prejudice? Making inferences from someone’s statements and preferences is not prejudice. The judge was not born with a political ringtone on his phone. Nor am I preventing the judge from achieving anything or serving them in a public establishment as a result of their choices not relevant to the position or service.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    What consensus do you want in a forum topic past it being notable enough to warrant discussion from multiple users?

    Get at least most people here to agree it's a dogwhistle if you're gonna assume it's a dogwhistle I guess, because if you can't do that, going beyond this bubble is a non-starter.

    I have no control over what is discussed here, which is great. I just got set off by Goumindong's comment because I was like "isn't that the definition of prejudice, dude? Shouldn't we be careful around stuff like that?"

    Isn’t what the definition of prejudice? Making inferences from someone’s statements and preferences is not prejudice. The judge was not born with a political ringtone on his phone. Nor am I preventing the judge from achieving anything or serving them in a public establishment as a result of their choices not relevant to the position or service.

    I consider judging people by their taste in music to be similar to judging them by their taste in food or clothes. Especially if it's something that was popular way before Donald Trump was relevant. I am willing to bet that there are a lot of people who like some Lee Greenwood song that was really popular in 2001 or who like fast food, steak, and diet coke who hate Donald Trump. Why alienate them for no reason?

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    edited November 26
    I think I'd have more of a reaction if it was Toby Keiths shitkicker anthem from 2002 instead of some played out standard from the early 80's. Lee Greenwood's garbage saccharine song about a country he wasn't even a citizen of is as ubiquitous and overdone as any other "patriotic" song you've ever heard.

    Plus, as others have pointed out, his actions perfectly described what his beliefs are. I don't know what people expect to extract out of his shitty ringtone choices that he already hasn't made clear and proper in his actions.

    jungleroomx on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    I refuse to be worried about anything that would make me look like an idiot should I report it to HR

    That’s generally how the best dog whistles work.

    Dog whistles work even better when people are raising flags left and right on post hoc associations. That's why there are lists of hate speech and symbols - to remove the ambiguity.

    ...the ambiguity is the point with dog whistles

    Yeah so don't help them out

    As the SPLC article I linked (and you removed from your quote of my post) points out, context is key for understanding if ambiguous gestures have an intended nefariousness or not.

    While I don't believe that the judge's phone going off during the trial was a deliberate troll, his choice of ringtone is not irrelevant when discussing if the judge had a bias because of the obvious political associations of the song.

    I didn't think it was relevant because he wasn't flashing hate signs in court.

    You don't have to exhibit Snidely Whiplash levels of mustache twirling villainy to be a racist and requiring that level of proof before you consider someone as acting improperly is one of the ways these people make dogwhistles work for them.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks 😉Registered User regular
    edited November 27
    SmokeStacks was warned for this.
    Its good to see that without any dissenting opinions in this thread you guys have time to laser focus on the parts of the case that really matter - the Judge's ringtone.

    Did anybody get a look at his shoes to see if they are New Balance?

    ElJeffe on
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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Its good to see that without any dissenting opinions in this thread you guys have time to laser focus on the parts of the case that really matter - the Judge's ringtone.

    Did anybody get a look at his shoes to see if they are New Balance?

    Idk if you ask me a judge shouldn't even have a cell phone in there, let alone it being on. Seems to me at the very least it shows the dude wasn't taking his job seriously. Maybe if the judge hadn't made the courtroom do stupid, insipid shit for the whole thing people wouldn't be so quick to add it to the list of 'weird dumb ass shit' the judge did during the trial.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    The judges ringtone is a bit of tangent, to be sure. Or at least it normally would be.

    But when you take it in context with the fact that he had it out and was indeed using during trial, along with his other decisions and behavior... It becomes a point of discussion.

    You know. Taking things in context. A process that is important but was not allowed by this judge in this trial.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Its good to see that without any dissenting opinions in this thread you guys have time to laser focus on the parts of the case that really matter - the Judge's ringtone.

    Did anybody get a look at his shoes to see if they are New Balance?

    It is such a shame that this particular devil won’t continue to get an advocate on the Penny Arcade forums.

    Or a vocal fanbase, as the last thread enjoyed.

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  • Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    Before this thread gets shut down too can I offer the suggestion of just reporting the low effort bait attempt, ignore him, and move on.

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