Ah yes, even more effective guns. That's what the 40k faction balance was missing.
Yeah, I'm getting kind of worried about what niche these guys are meant to be filling on the tabletop. "Tau or Ad Mech but kind of tanky" feels like it has the potential to be a real bad time.
I mean, you could technically run the pump to rotate the cylinder and cock the hammer, just like you would with a single action revolver. It's a whole lot more fuss than just having a double-action trigger or something, but mechanically there's no reason why it wouldn't work.
But yes, the pump is because it's a shotgun, and everyone knows that all the coolest shotguns are pump action ones.
I figure they are basically going to be short range necrons without resurrection protocols and the tax that causes. Making them better smaller necrons.
The stat line they showed were a 1 for 1 with a warrior.
I signed up for an apocalypse game specifically to motivate myself to finally build the Warhound that has been sitting in pieces in a box ever since it arrived. The game starts on Saturday, so I basically have a week.
I set out a table specifically for this project in my living room last night, and took a hobby saw to all of the resin gates outside (some of which were enormous). Tonight will be sorting parts, plus sanding/filing, and tomorrow will be drilling for the pins. Then, the actual assembly can begin.
I have blades, saws, a small drill, superglue, brass rods, milliput, JB Weld, sandpaper in various grains, and a whole lot of free time. Wish me luck, lads.
+5
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
Chonky boi action figure finally arrived:
I was actually beginning to wonder what had happened to this until I got the shipping notification last week.
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
So, in pretty much every magnetizing guide I've seen they use a hobby knife or exacto knife to cut the plastic, but is there a reason sprue cutters wouldn't work for it? I'm assuming it's to do with putting stress on the plastic and deforming it, but I also have very little confidence in my accuracy with any kind of razorblade hobby knife.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
So, in pretty much every magnetizing guide I've seen they use a hobby knife or exacto knife to cut the plastic, but is there a reason sprue cutters wouldn't work for it? I'm assuming it's to do with putting stress on the plastic and deforming it, but I also have very little confidence in my accuracy with any kind of razorblade hobby knife.
It's a number of reasons why you want to cut away from the model onto the runner part
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
I mean, you could technically run the pump to rotate the cylinder and cock the hammer, just like you would with a single action revolver. It's a whole lot more fuss than just having a double-action trigger or something, but mechanically there's no reason why it wouldn't work.
But yes, the pump is because it's a shotgun, and everyone knows that all the coolest shotguns are pump action ones.
It's a Pancor Jackhammer
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I mean, you could technically run the pump to rotate the cylinder and cock the hammer, just like you would with a single action revolver. It's a whole lot more fuss than just having a double-action trigger or something, but mechanically there's no reason why it wouldn't work.
But yes, the pump is because it's a shotgun, and everyone knows that all the coolest shotguns are pump action ones.
It's a Pancor Jackhammer
Absolutely this. It just happens to have a squared off fore end to make it look less like an Elysian lasgun: https://youtu.be/-VKGhqIl4Gw
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I was going to make some greenstuff rope to attach some different hanging things to, I was thinking I could use magnets to make the stuff detachable, but my brother suggested string, which seems obvious. So I'm going to get some string and see if I can get it to work that way instead.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Seen the reviews and let’s play of Horus Heresy. In over 25 years of playing GW games, they’ve never released anything I have been less interested in. I expect it to sell well because SPEECE MARINES at least.
But I actually think there is some interesting bits in the game and they did a good job updating the rules a bit but keeping them very old school.
The box is basically a full army so its easy to get me an army.
Just not sure what. I just assume it will be Alpha Legion in the end anyway.
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I'll probably hold off on the box if it's not a super limited time thing, I'm interested in picking up the box set and splitting it with my brother, for my part It'll be part of a major kitbashing project for me so there's no rush.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
Seen the reviews and let’s play of Horus Heresy. In over 25 years of playing GW games, they’ve never released anything I have been less interested in. I expect it to sell well because SPEECE MARINES at least.
I'll probably hold off on the box if it's not a super limited time thing, I'm interested in picking up the box set and splitting it with my brother, for my part It'll be part of a major kitbashing project for me so there's no rush.
The leaks from earlier in the year said that the big box was going to be limited, and replaced by the traditional small/medium/large box sets with less stuff inside. This would fit with GW's current pattern for starter boxes.
I want the Terminators, Spartan, and Contemptor solely for my 40K Marine army, but I have no use for 40 more Tactical Marines, the two Praetors, or the rulebook/templates/etc. I thought about trying to find someone to split the box with, but the problem is I'm pretty sure everyone wants the stuff that I want more than they want the stuff that I don't want, unless they are already a 30K player (which doesn't really have a playerbase in my area).
I have Marine/Sisters Rhinos coming out of my ass, but I'm still excited for the mk1 Rhino kit being released in plastic. I have like a thousand points of Death Guard, so if I wanted to turn it into a full sized 1,500 or 2,000 point army I think a couple of those would fit in nicely (and be fairly thematic).
Because my brother is not fond of the the space wolves in 40k at the moment he is far more interested in playing Hersey but smaller games like 500 to 750 it's also a reason to turn his models from long ago and play with them as well as turn his painting project into a playable army
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Then the box might suit you quite well; it’s roughly 2000 points, though the big tank is 400 of those so you can make a pair of 800 point armies no problem.
To be fair, 30K has more than just Marines fighting Marines - you have Talons of the Emperor, Collegia Titanica, Ruinstorm Demons, Admech, and Solar Auxilia as well, with the option to play loyalist or traitor for all of them except demons. While its true that Marines are the only faction getting a major push with new plastic models, there are still other factions to choose from.
Even if you did go Marines as a new army, you have 20 different options to choose from (18 Legions plus Shattered Legions and Blackshields), so its not like every game is going to be Ultramarines vs Ultramarines or something.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Different chapters are still just Ultramarines with a new hat.
I remember playing with the old 30 marines for £30 when I was young; not rules but just playing you soldiers, so I have a very big soft spot for these updates beaky marines.
If I wasn’t spending all my money on a big family holiday in 2 months time, I’d be very tempted but I’ve got to be sensible. I’m sure I’ll get the beakies at some point and get rocket launchers for them.
Breaking it down, I’m not that fussed by the terminators and I think the other tanks appeal to me more (looks like there’s going to be a land raider coming out as well).
I'm pretty sure that my grognardiest opinion about 40k as a hobby is that the Horus Heresy was considerably better off as a half-remembered, half-mythical piece of vague background fluff, as opposed to a full game system that you can play alongside a painstakingly detailed series of 54 different narrative books.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Different chapters are still just Ultramarines with a new hat.
It's okay to be wrong.
Serious comment, though: The Legions have enough different special rules to make each one of them unique enough that Marines vs. Marines isn't the boring slog that it is in 40k. But, I'm also very much into 30k over 40k, so I admit I'm a little biased.
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I like all the 30k mini stuff, and I'm cool with filling the backstory out, but I agree the Horus Heresy novels are terrible overall IMO.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Different chapters are still just Ultramarines with a new hat.
It's okay to be wrong.
Serious comment, though: The Legions have enough different special rules to make each one of them unique enough that Marines vs. Marines isn't the boring slog that it is in 40k. But, I'm also very much into 30k over 40k, so I admit I'm a little biased.
From watching various battle reports, it’s still basically mostly the same stuff against mostly the same stuff. I couldn’t think of anything more boring than 30k, because it’s already bad enough in 40K when you get endless marine vs marine style match ups. Yeah they have different special rules, but they never feel like anything other than marines and are not as unique as individual alien factions.
Seen the reviews and let’s play of Horus Heresy. In over 25 years of playing GW games, they’ve never released anything I have been less interested in. I expect it to sell well because SPEECE MARINES at least.
Can you elaborate?
I am not too much of a fan of the 7th edition rules tbh, but at least they only have a semi weird wound chart. The fact the game is basically just flavours of the same stuff is really boring to me, but I kind of get that GW would love to make a game where they just make the same sculpts (space marines) constantly.
There are some good ideas here, like the various reactions and it’s based on some of the best Warhammer Lore that exists, but it doesn’t make me excited to play it. Also the level of grognard I’ve encountered from looking at 30k discords etc has convinced me to just not bother with it.
In many ways I feel less and less interested in anything 40K or 30k. If we end up with a 10th edition soon that makes most factions bin tier until we get past the year of making marine codexes that is sure to come, I might just be done with it for good.
The leaks from earlier in the year said that the big box was going to be limited, and replaced by the traditional small/medium/large box sets with less stuff inside. This would fit with GW's current pattern for starter boxes.
When it was officially revealed I remember/noted that it was said that it wasn't going to be a limited release, but I've failed to find the source of that observation. (I've managed to find others say it was said on stream, but am not going to rewatch that to verify.)
//
The big alleged leak of the (now-traditional) box sets did get the model content correct for the launch box, but that was roughly known since the original photo leak.
On the other hand, it had the name of the scenario wrong (Battle for Heta-Gladius instead of Cthonia), that the box would be £240 (announced as under £200), the rulebook would be softcover (hardcover), and said that the Legions' rules would be in a Compendium followed by Warzone books (the first including Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Sons of Horus, and World Eaters) instead of the Liber Astartes and Liber Hereticus we now know we're getting. It also said that the smallest set (the equivalent of the Recruit Edition of Indomintus) would be 10 Tactical Marines - which is certainly possible - but which would be weird considering that we now know they come in boxes of 20.
I suppose some differences could come down to decisions changing, and ultimately I do think (and hope) that GW will do smaller starter sets, but the alleged leak is on rocky ground.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
If someone writes off 30k as mirror matches in spite of the unique flavor, rules, units, primarchs, and rites of war (not even taking into account these reaction things they've apparently added) for each legion on top of the non legion factions like talons, militia, solar auxilia, and wildly different from 40k daemons then I don't even know what to tell them.
There's also stuff like black shields and shattered legions but they didn't really fit into the flow of my rant list.
I don't know if the insanely deep pool of narrative scenarios and campaigns are being carried over (or will just still work in the new edition) but goddamn. I was (and remain) a very outspoken critic of 7th edition 40k but the scope of 30k makes it a lot more palatable.
I guess what I'm driving at is don't write it off based on watching a few minutes of probably the most basic gameplay limited to a scant few units.
It's the knight houses ad mech and talons I am curious about in heresy as 2 of the 3 are house armies
The Knight houses are can I play with my chaos knight army in heresy? If so what? the same question for the others.
I play with demons in AoS and less so in 40k but I need get for them other things {Khrone needs some more of the carts and Slaanesh needs the greater demon} But the Ad Mech I would have to see what I can use in heresy for the since the engine War book threw what we were doing with that army into questions
The same for the talons since I will be getting a rhino for the SoS army I am building
There were absolutely traitor Knight Houses during the Horus Heresy. In terms of aesthetics you didn't really have the intense chaos mutations until after the traitors fled into the Eye of Terror, but I don't know if that would be something that opponents would be overly anal about.
Dominus Class Knights and Armigers were both added to 30K a while back, so you can bring them as well, but I don't know if the new chaos specific weapons have rules in 30K yet (which is ironic). You might just have to proxy them as normal knight weapons if they don't.
SmokeStacks on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I’m pretty sure there’s canonically at least one Banelord (Khorne-dedicated corrupted Titan; notably mutated to have a tail) at the Seige of Terra so it seems like that happened pretty fast.
On Terra the deathguard was also already full on nurglefied and the world bearers was all about possessed. So chaosified stuff should be free game at that point.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
If someone writes off 30k as mirror matches in spite of the unique flavor, rules, units, primarchs, and rites of war (not even taking into account these reaction things they've apparently added) for each legion on top of the non legion factions like talons, militia, solar auxilia, and wildly different from 40k daemons then I don't even know what to tell them.
I just find it utterly visually boring to look at, except for Daemon armies for obvious reasons (but I have rarely, if ever, seen non-marine armies played in 30k). I'm well aware they have different rules in places, but it's still basically marines. I don't really count the several billion marines in 40k as anything significantly more interesting to play from one another as it is.
This is 100% purely my opinion and comes solely from watching a few games, not just recently either, which has not convinced me it's anything that will ever interest me. Also dislike the 7th edition rules a fair bit and don't want to really go back to them.
I never played 7th so it is one of the things both my brother and I are curious about playing smaller games
Tomorrow should be the world eaters if they are doing the legions in the order I think they are? I know it is a debate about if I do a traitor legion who? As the two of the possibilities are this week
I never played my black templars vs my brother [mostly orks as that paid in tourneys was 500 point games and you can get a lot of orks for that}
It is the weapons [I am still debating if I want to play the part sellers for another set of weapons for my salvage knight or get another kit ?}
The new edition of Kill Team will be up for pre order this week
As well as the chaos knight items that were in the hype box. For me the chaos knights are a force I will build slowly because of storage and cost issues. As it sits I just have to get some more wardogs I think the armigers now are sold with both sets of arms?
Horus Heresy is as much a "historical wargame" as much as it is a fantasy/scifi wargame. It shares a lot in common with the bolt-actions and black-powders in it's design philosophy and target players I think.
As someone who's falling into a ww2 historical wargaming hole, there's something nice in having everyone using the same standard building blocks. Ultramarines vs Sons of Horus is like British vs Germans, they're mostly the same basic tools of riflemen and tanks with some specific varieties to spice them up a bit. It lets the core mechanics of the game shine through a bit more, in the specifics of maneuver, fire, and assaults play out. If everyone is on relatively even ground, then everyone is having to engage with relatively the same game. It's the difference between two people playing chess, vs one person playing chess, and their opponent playing backgammon, which can sometimes feel like the case in 9th.
In 40k, the majority of the complexity is offloaded from the core game rules into the specific faction and unit rules. This can have a huge level of diversity in the individual interactions, but can also lead to some simplifying of the core mechanics. The elimination of vehicle armour facing is a good example of this. in 9th ed, a "vehicle" can be anything from a slightly largeish bike, to a cyborg dragon, to a chariot pulled by a squiggoth, to a humanoid gundam suit. Figuring out how to calculate facings for all those different shapes proved too much, so they dropped the system. In 30k, every vehicle is basically a box. On the unit by unit level, it's may look less diverse, but the core mechanics are able to be more in depth and simulate different things.
I'm not arguing one is better than the other, I think they both have interesting strengths and weaknesses. I do think disregarding Horus Heresy as nothing but boring mirror matches is a bit of an oversimplification though.
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Shrapnel shells. Rocket propelled shrapnel shells. Full of adamantium flechettes or something.
Mr. Shrapnel would be proud.
There is precedent.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Yeah, I'm getting kind of worried about what niche these guys are meant to be filling on the tabletop. "Tau or Ad Mech but kind of tanky" feels like it has the potential to be a real bad time.
But yes, the pump is because it's a shotgun, and everyone knows that all the coolest shotguns are pump action ones.
The stat line they showed were a 1 for 1 with a warrior.
I set out a table specifically for this project in my living room last night, and took a hobby saw to all of the resin gates outside (some of which were enormous). Tonight will be sorting parts, plus sanding/filing, and tomorrow will be drilling for the pins. Then, the actual assembly can begin.
I have blades, saws, a small drill, superglue, brass rods, milliput, JB Weld, sandpaper in various grains, and a whole lot of free time. Wish me luck, lads.
I was actually beginning to wonder what had happened to this until I got the shipping notification last week.
It's a number of reasons why you want to cut away from the model onto the runner part
It's a Pancor Jackhammer
Absolutely this. It just happens to have a squared off fore end to make it look less like an Elysian lasgun:
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
But I actually think there is some interesting bits in the game and they did a good job updating the rules a bit but keeping them very old school.
The box is basically a full army so its easy to get me an army.
Just not sure what. I just assume it will be Alpha Legion in the end anyway.
Can you elaborate?
The leaks from earlier in the year said that the big box was going to be limited, and replaced by the traditional small/medium/large box sets with less stuff inside. This would fit with GW's current pattern for starter boxes.
I want the Terminators, Spartan, and Contemptor solely for my 40K Marine army, but I have no use for 40 more Tactical Marines, the two Praetors, or the rulebook/templates/etc. I thought about trying to find someone to split the box with, but the problem is I'm pretty sure everyone wants the stuff that I want more than they want the stuff that I don't want, unless they are already a 30K player (which doesn't really have a playerbase in my area).
I have Marine/Sisters Rhinos coming out of my ass, but I'm still excited for the mk1 Rhino kit being released in plastic. I have like a thousand points of Death Guard, so if I wanted to turn it into a full sized 1,500 or 2,000 point army I think a couple of those would fit in nicely (and be fairly thematic).
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
But I’m willing to accept that’s a ‘me’ problem. People obviously like those games well enough to support a full system.
Mirror matches in general are more boring than the alternative.
Even if you did go Marines as a new army, you have 20 different options to choose from (18 Legions plus Shattered Legions and Blackshields), so its not like every game is going to be Ultramarines vs Ultramarines or something.
If I wasn’t spending all my money on a big family holiday in 2 months time, I’d be very tempted but I’ve got to be sensible. I’m sure I’ll get the beakies at some point and get rocket launchers for them.
Breaking it down, I’m not that fussed by the terminators and I think the other tanks appeal to me more (looks like there’s going to be a land raider coming out as well).
It's okay to be wrong.
Serious comment, though: The Legions have enough different special rules to make each one of them unique enough that Marines vs. Marines isn't the boring slog that it is in 40k. But, I'm also very much into 30k over 40k, so I admit I'm a little biased.
From watching various battle reports, it’s still basically mostly the same stuff against mostly the same stuff. I couldn’t think of anything more boring than 30k, because it’s already bad enough in 40K when you get endless marine vs marine style match ups. Yeah they have different special rules, but they never feel like anything other than marines and are not as unique as individual alien factions.
I am not too much of a fan of the 7th edition rules tbh, but at least they only have a semi weird wound chart. The fact the game is basically just flavours of the same stuff is really boring to me, but I kind of get that GW would love to make a game where they just make the same sculpts (space marines) constantly.
There are some good ideas here, like the various reactions and it’s based on some of the best Warhammer Lore that exists, but it doesn’t make me excited to play it. Also the level of grognard I’ve encountered from looking at 30k discords etc has convinced me to just not bother with it.
In many ways I feel less and less interested in anything 40K or 30k. If we end up with a 10th edition soon that makes most factions bin tier until we get past the year of making marine codexes that is sure to come, I might just be done with it for good.
When it was officially revealed I remember/noted that it was said that it wasn't going to be a limited release, but I've failed to find the source of that observation. (I've managed to find others say it was said on stream, but am not going to rewatch that to verify.)
//
The big alleged leak of the (now-traditional) box sets did get the model content correct for the launch box, but that was roughly known since the original photo leak.
On the other hand, it had the name of the scenario wrong (Battle for Heta-Gladius instead of Cthonia), that the box would be £240 (announced as under £200), the rulebook would be softcover (hardcover), and said that the Legions' rules would be in a Compendium followed by Warzone books (the first including Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Sons of Horus, and World Eaters) instead of the Liber Astartes and Liber Hereticus we now know we're getting. It also said that the smallest set (the equivalent of the Recruit Edition of Indomintus) would be 10 Tactical Marines - which is certainly possible - but which would be weird considering that we now know they come in boxes of 20.
I suppose some differences could come down to decisions changing, and ultimately I do think (and hope) that GW will do smaller starter sets, but the alleged leak is on rocky ground.
There's also stuff like black shields and shattered legions but they didn't really fit into the flow of my rant list.
I don't know if the insanely deep pool of narrative scenarios and campaigns are being carried over (or will just still work in the new edition) but goddamn. I was (and remain) a very outspoken critic of 7th edition 40k but the scope of 30k makes it a lot more palatable.
I guess what I'm driving at is don't write it off based on watching a few minutes of probably the most basic gameplay limited to a scant few units.
Or do. I'm not your mother.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
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The Knight houses are can I play with my chaos knight army in heresy? If so what? the same question for the others.
I play with demons in AoS and less so in 40k but I need get for them other things {Khrone needs some more of the carts and Slaanesh needs the greater demon} But the Ad Mech I would have to see what I can use in heresy for the since the engine War book threw what we were doing with that army into questions
The same for the talons since I will be getting a rhino for the SoS army I am building
Dominus Class Knights and Armigers were both added to 30K a while back, so you can bring them as well, but I don't know if the new chaos specific weapons have rules in 30K yet (which is ironic). You might just have to proxy them as normal knight weapons if they don't.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I just find it utterly visually boring to look at, except for Daemon armies for obvious reasons (but I have rarely, if ever, seen non-marine armies played in 30k). I'm well aware they have different rules in places, but it's still basically marines. I don't really count the several billion marines in 40k as anything significantly more interesting to play from one another as it is.
This is 100% purely my opinion and comes solely from watching a few games, not just recently either, which has not convinced me it's anything that will ever interest me. Also dislike the 7th edition rules a fair bit and don't want to really go back to them.
Tomorrow should be the world eaters if they are doing the legions in the order I think they are? I know it is a debate about if I do a traitor legion who? As the two of the possibilities are this week
I never played my black templars vs my brother [mostly orks as that paid in tourneys was 500 point games and you can get a lot of orks for that}
It is the weapons [I am still debating if I want to play the part sellers for another set of weapons for my salvage knight or get another kit ?}
The new edition of Kill Team will be up for pre order this week
As well as the chaos knight items that were in the hype box. For me the chaos knights are a force I will build slowly because of storage and cost issues. As it sits I just have to get some more wardogs I think the armigers now are sold with both sets of arms?
As someone who's falling into a ww2 historical wargaming hole, there's something nice in having everyone using the same standard building blocks. Ultramarines vs Sons of Horus is like British vs Germans, they're mostly the same basic tools of riflemen and tanks with some specific varieties to spice them up a bit. It lets the core mechanics of the game shine through a bit more, in the specifics of maneuver, fire, and assaults play out. If everyone is on relatively even ground, then everyone is having to engage with relatively the same game. It's the difference between two people playing chess, vs one person playing chess, and their opponent playing backgammon, which can sometimes feel like the case in 9th.
In 40k, the majority of the complexity is offloaded from the core game rules into the specific faction and unit rules. This can have a huge level of diversity in the individual interactions, but can also lead to some simplifying of the core mechanics. The elimination of vehicle armour facing is a good example of this. in 9th ed, a "vehicle" can be anything from a slightly largeish bike, to a cyborg dragon, to a chariot pulled by a squiggoth, to a humanoid gundam suit. Figuring out how to calculate facings for all those different shapes proved too much, so they dropped the system. In 30k, every vehicle is basically a box. On the unit by unit level, it's may look less diverse, but the core mechanics are able to be more in depth and simulate different things.
I'm not arguing one is better than the other, I think they both have interesting strengths and weaknesses. I do think disregarding Horus Heresy as nothing but boring mirror matches is a bit of an oversimplification though.