Alien planets don't exist, and it's expensive to destroy skyscrapers. But parks and street crossing exist, so you can probably just film actors in those without needing to make them CGI. That's what people talk about when they talk about unnecessary CGI. What is being saved or gained from shooting mundane locations in this way?
Unnoticeable CGI improving things without the audience realising are great. Things that don't exist or that would be too difficult to film being realised through CGI are great. CGI backgrounds of entirely mundane locations that give off weird vibes because the lighting doesn't match whatever the actors are under and fucks up the vibe are bad and unnecessary. It's a clear and understandable argument, and not stupid at all, unless you decide to deliberately misunderstand it. The CGI in the shots above is worse than shooting at the real location. It's a net negative to the finished product.
Mostly the Marvel movies either make their fake backgrounds look real or make their CGI really good but those screenshots look like ass. Marvel have gotten to the point where shooting in real locations is apparently something Feige has to convince Disney is a good idea, judging from what he said about Eternals footage. Look, guys, real sunsets are pretty as well!
But also then you have to get permits and permission, rope off areas of a city, impact traffic, and figure out how to keep leaks from happening when you're shooting in public. The CG simplifies a ton of that by just waving arms and making everything happen in post.
They’re not indy filmmakers borrowing a camera from a film school and shooting on a shoestring budget that needs the savings, though. I know it might be simpler, but the end result just isn’t very good, or at least it wasn’t in this case.
I have to say that in motion I've not found the CGI in recent Marvel films to be as bad as, say, the CGI in what I've seen of Murder on the Nile. At the same time, by and large the films still tend to have a functional aesthetic rather than a striking one. They're okay visually, and they manage the occasional strong image or dynamic scene, but they could do much better in terms of being consistently aesthetically interesting and exciting. They work, but there's nothing there that makes me go wow. In that respect, as bad as the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy got at the end, by and large I'd say all three of those films accomplished more in visual terms. Even the Fantastic Beasts films, which have turned out to be dreadful at telling a worthwhile story, are more visually striking, though they are also inconsistent (the third film has some beautiful images, but it is too murky and indistinct at times, mistaking a dark, muddy look for moody, I guess).
Contrast Dune or Green Knight--both films where that old show "Every Frame a Painting" could damn well be true. As a photographer both are masterclasses in cinematography and just about every scene is visually striking and effective in its own way.
Marvel manages to pull this off on occasion (and occasionally they do so in a way that feels like pure artifice/fan service, as in the Avengers Assemble moment). However, for the most part it's just workmanlike. It gets the job done, it looks flashy in the moment, but it's nothing I want to pull a screengrab from and put it on my wall.
I just found out it was available digitally to rent, so finally got to watch it!
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
I just found out it was available digitally to rent, so finally got to watch it!
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
Agreed. It was mostly a bitter ending with very little to no sweet.
It's kind of a very spider-man ending though.
The silver lining is that they mentioned that some Spider-Mans get happier endings (it sounded like Tobey-verse Spider-Man was still with his MJ and they were happy), so maybe we'll get some happier resolution for Tom-verse Spider-Man (folks remember who he is, or at least Happy does so Peter will have a mentor/older figure - or he'll establish new relationships with the new set of heros)
So if the spell brought over everybody who knew Spider-Man's identity, where was MaguireVerse Mary Jane? I was sure she knew his identity in the movies, but maybe I'm misremembering
I just found out it was available digitally to rent, so finally got to watch it!
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
I don't think you were supposed to like it, but the fact of the matter is that they went with a Spiderman who is a big time vet of the MCU before he's even 18, so you get almost none of the other real classic Peter Parker stuff, and they wanted to set up for that. Spiderman knowing everyone but them not knowing him (and not just MJ/etc) includes ALL of the MCU. I think the real thing is, you can go with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in the next movie or two, and make Peter question if it was his decision to not be in his life that caused Ned to go dark side. There is just a ton of great story telling you can do with this setup if done carefully.
So if the spell brought over everybody who knew Spider-Man's identity, where was MaguireVerse Mary Jane? I was sure she knew his identity in the movies, but maybe I'm misremembering
The spell was threatening to bring everyone who knew his identity, which was what the end of the movie was about stopping. The villains who we got were the few to get through before Strange boxed the spell.
If it had been allowed to continue it would have bought in Kirsten Dunst MJ, as well as pre-death Emma Stone Gwen, her dad, everyone in Spider-Verse, and so on.
So if the spell brought over everybody who knew Spider-Man's identity, where was MaguireVerse Mary Jane? I was sure she knew his identity in the movies, but maybe I'm misremembering
You're trying to make sense of the magic.
It's not going to make any sense.
What matters are the characters and how they react, not the logic of mystic arts.
I just found out it was available digitally to rent, so finally got to watch it!
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
I don't think you were supposed to like it, but the fact of the matter is that they went with a Spiderman who is a big time vet of the MCU before he's even 18, so you get almost none of the other real classic Peter Parker stuff, and they wanted to set up for that. Spiderman knowing everyone but them not knowing him (and not just MJ/etc) includes ALL of the MCU. I think the real thing is, you can go with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in the next movie or two, and make Peter question if it was his decision to not be in his life that caused Ned to go dark side. There is just a ton of great story telling you can do with this setup if done carefully.
Oh. That is why Ned can use magic.
Yeah. They also had Betty Brant in this one. I see.
Krathoon on
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Ned can't be Hobgoblin, he promised to never go evil against Peter. Interdimensional magic is nothing compared to the power of Friendship.
Ned can't be Hobgoblin, he promised to never go evil against Peter. Interdimensional magic is nothing compared to the power of Friendship.
Hate to break it to you. Ned is totally going Hobgoblin. That is some pretty dark stuff too. It involves the occult if I remember correctly.
Apparently, he was not the real Hobgoblin, but they will probably make him the real one to keep it simple. The comic book story is kinda icky. Typical Spiderman. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Leeds
I just found out it was available digitally to rent, so finally got to watch it!
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
I don't think you were supposed to like it, but the fact of the matter is that they went with a Spiderman who is a big time vet of the MCU before he's even 18, so you get almost none of the other real classic Peter Parker stuff, and they wanted to set up for that. Spiderman knowing everyone but them not knowing him (and not just MJ/etc) includes ALL of the MCU. I think the real thing is, you can go with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in the next movie or two, and make Peter question if it was his decision to not be in his life that caused Ned to go dark side. There is just a ton of great story telling you can do with this setup if done carefully.
Well if I wasn't supposed to like the ending of the movie, I guess they succeeded.
I swear there is an occult, magical storyline involving the Hobgoblin, but I can't find it.
I think I owned that issue. It seems like that is the way they are going with it. Making him supernatural.
Comics are messier than soap operas.
...and then they reboot everything.
Krathoon on
0
Options
MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
I swear there is an occult, magical storyline involving the Hobgoblin, but I can't find it.
I think I owned that issue. It seems like that is the way they are going with it. Making him supernatural.
Comics are messier than soap operas.
...and then they reboot everything.
Pretty sure you’re thinking of Demogoblin who, if memory serves, was created after Jason Macendale cut a deal with demons.
I always found it real weird that Spiderman has all these science animal villains and then....goblins. Lots of goblins in all kinds of flavors. Some of them are science-y to start but mostly they're just assholes.
I always found it real weird that Spiderman has all these science animal villains and then....goblins. Lots of goblins in all kinds of flavors. Some of them are science-y to start but mostly they're just assholes.
Are you trying to argue that goblins are science!?!?
And GG is one of Spider-Man's top villains, I'm not 100% if he's his arch nemesis but it's likely given his Joker-like obsession with Spider-Man just because. So when he's out of commission they tend to throw another Goblin in there for the heck of it, usually another Green Goblin, Hobgoblin is just as a guy as far as I know but he took some of GG's gear to be a pro thief, and Red Goblin is just GG with Carnage. The new Queen Goblin is moving into some severe redundancy however, it's just GG with a depression version of Penance stare.
0
Options
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
Ned in the movies is more Ganke Lee than Ned Leeds, I think we're Hobgoblin-safe.
I always found it real weird that Spiderman has all these science animal villains and then....goblins. Lots of goblins in all kinds of flavors. Some of them are science-y to start but mostly they're just assholes.
Are you trying to argue that goblins are science!?!?
Green was something of a scientist himself! Hob...not so much. Definitely not animal themed though.
And GG is one of Spider-Man's top villains, I'm not 100% if he's his arch nemesis but it's likely given his Joker-like obsession with Spider-Man just because. So when he's out of commission they tend to throw another Goblin in there for the heck of it, usually another Green Goblin, Hobgoblin is just as a guy as far as I know but he took some of GG's gear to be a pro thief, and Red Goblin is just GG with Carnage. The new Queen Goblin is moving into some severe redundancy however, it's just GG with a depression version of Penance stare.
Before Venom he might have had a serious case as his Arch. Then he kind of got eclipsed by the nega-spiderman of Venom. Norman ran off and started having his own non-spiderman storyline by the time Venom had gone anti-hero-y. Not sure who I'd say it would be now. So many of Pete's foes are tragic characters it's hard to label them as an arch-nemesis.
I always found it real weird that Spiderman has all these science animal villains and then....goblins. Lots of goblins in all kinds of flavors. Some of them are science-y to start but mostly they're just assholes.
Are you trying to argue that goblins are science!?!?
Green was something of a scientist himself! Hob...not so much. Definitely not animal themed though.
And GG is one of Spider-Man's top villains, I'm not 100% if he's his arch nemesis but it's likely given his Joker-like obsession with Spider-Man just because. So when he's out of commission they tend to throw another Goblin in there for the heck of it, usually another Green Goblin, Hobgoblin is just as a guy as far as I know but he took some of GG's gear to be a pro thief, and Red Goblin is just GG with Carnage. The new Queen Goblin is moving into some severe redundancy however, it's just GG with a depression version of Penance stare.
Before Venom he might have had a serious case as his Arch. Then he kind of got eclipsed by the nega-spiderman of Venom. Norman ran off and started having his own non-spiderman storyline by the time Venom had gone anti-hero-y. Not sure who I'd say it would be now. So many of Pete's foes are tragic characters it's hard to label them as an arch-nemesis.
Some would probably argue Mephisto at this point which is terrible for our street-level, every-man hero, but Mephisto seems to be personally invested in making Parker's life miserable. Goblin is out of the game again because he's been rehabbed by Sin-Eater in an almost entirely terrible Kindred storyline that I can't fully hate because it undoes Gwen Stacy banging Norman.
Octopus is probably the most arch-nemesisy at the moment for his Superior Spider-Man arc but his most recent usages make him seem like a fairly incompetent foe so obsessed and blinded with his own perception of his greatness that all other interdimensional Octopi look down on him.
For some reason I thought The Hobgoblin was Harry Osborne
Was that in the 90s cartoon? I dipped in and out so the wider plot wasn't always obvious
Pretty sure Hobgoblin was Jason Macendale in the cartoon. I think Harry went Green Goblin after seeing Norman’s “ghost” that was just him stuck in another dimension.
The 90s cartoon got weird.
Edit: Ultimate Universe had Harry go Hobgoblin I think.
Octopus is probably the most arch-nemesisy at the moment for his Superior Spider-Man arc but his most recent usages make him seem like a fairly incompetent foe so obsessed and blinded with his own perception of his greatness that all other interdimensional Octopi look down on him.
I only read the original Superior run but didn't it end up with that Oct basically heroically letting Parker get back in control? He's the archtypical "tragic backstory" thing that makes the arch thing hard to justify. Though he sure starts the Superior run as a complete asshole.
Octopus is probably the most arch-nemesisy at the moment for his Superior Spider-Man arc but his most recent usages make him seem like a fairly incompetent foe so obsessed and blinded with his own perception of his greatness that all other interdimensional Octopi look down on him.
I only read the original Superior run but didn't it end up with that Oct basically heroically letting Parker get back in control? He's the archtypical "tragic backstory" thing that makes the arch thing hard to justify. Though he sure starts the Superior run as a complete asshole.
I think that version of Ock died when he let Parker take back his body. The version we have now is a backed up copy he stored in a robot, pre Spider-Man takeover.
Octopus is probably the most arch-nemesisy at the moment for his Superior Spider-Man arc but his most recent usages make him seem like a fairly incompetent foe so obsessed and blinded with his own perception of his greatness that all other interdimensional Octopi look down on him.
I only read the original Superior run but didn't it end up with that Oct basically heroically letting Parker get back in control? He's the archtypical "tragic backstory" thing that makes the arch thing hard to justify. Though he sure starts the Superior run as a complete asshole.
I think that version of Ock died when he let Parker take back his body. The version we have now is a backed up copy he stored in a robot, pre Spider-Man takeover.
There was also a version where mephisto agreed to free Otto of some baggage holding him back if Otto also agreed to let go of some lingering Parker influence.
The challenge was whether or not Otto would have what it takes to be a good guy on his own if he didn't have any excuses to rely on.
0
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (2018)
Ned going evil would be the dumbest twist in a subsequent movie like come ON
Posts
But also then you have to get permits and permission, rope off areas of a city, impact traffic, and figure out how to keep leaks from happening when you're shooting in public. The CG simplifies a ton of that by just waving arms and making everything happen in post.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Contrast Dune or Green Knight--both films where that old show "Every Frame a Painting" could damn well be true. As a photographer both are masterclasses in cinematography and just about every scene is visually striking and effective in its own way.
Marvel manages to pull this off on occasion (and occasionally they do so in a way that feels like pure artifice/fan service, as in the Avengers Assemble moment). However, for the most part it's just workmanlike. It gets the job done, it looks flashy in the moment, but it's nothing I want to pull a screengrab from and put it on my wall.
It was really really good!
Except the resolution. I'm really torn on the "erase everyone's memory" thing. Like, they've essentially just deleted multiple movies worth of characterization for several people. Also when you magically erase someone's memory to that extent it's a WHOLE lot like killing them just sayin'.
If they do another one and they resolve it well enough, then fine. It's not very satisfactory right now though. I think in writing this post I'm no longer torn :P . I don't like that conclusion.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Agreed. It was mostly a bitter ending with very little to no sweet.
It's kind of a very spider-man ending though.
The silver lining is that they mentioned that some Spider-Mans get happier endings (it sounded like Tobey-verse Spider-Man was still with his MJ and they were happy), so maybe we'll get some happier resolution for Tom-verse Spider-Man (folks remember who he is, or at least Happy does so Peter will have a mentor/older figure - or he'll establish new relationships with the new set of heros)
I don't think you were supposed to like it, but the fact of the matter is that they went with a Spiderman who is a big time vet of the MCU before he's even 18, so you get almost none of the other real classic Peter Parker stuff, and they wanted to set up for that. Spiderman knowing everyone but them not knowing him (and not just MJ/etc) includes ALL of the MCU. I think the real thing is, you can go with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in the next movie or two, and make Peter question if it was his decision to not be in his life that caused Ned to go dark side. There is just a ton of great story telling you can do with this setup if done carefully.
If it had been allowed to continue it would have bought in Kirsten Dunst MJ, as well as pre-death Emma Stone Gwen, her dad, everyone in Spider-Verse, and so on.
You're trying to make sense of the magic.
It's not going to make any sense.
What matters are the characters and how they react, not the logic of mystic arts.
Curious to see where they go after this.
Oh. That is why Ned can use magic.
Yeah. They also had Betty Brant in this one. I see.
Hate to break it to you. Ned is totally going Hobgoblin. That is some pretty dark stuff too. It involves the occult if I remember correctly.
Apparently, he was not the real Hobgoblin, but they will probably make him the real one to keep it simple. The comic book story is kinda icky. Typical Spiderman.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Leeds
Well if I wasn't supposed to like the ending of the movie, I guess they succeeded.
If Ned goes evil, that's gonna be even worse tbh
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I think I owned that issue. It seems like that is the way they are going with it. Making him supernatural.
Comics are messier than soap operas.
...and then they reboot everything.
Pretty sure you’re thinking of Demogoblin who, if memory serves, was created after Jason Macendale cut a deal with demons.
Are you trying to argue that goblins are science!?!?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
And GG is one of Spider-Man's top villains, I'm not 100% if he's his arch nemesis but it's likely given his Joker-like obsession with Spider-Man just because. So when he's out of commission they tend to throw another Goblin in there for the heck of it, usually another Green Goblin, Hobgoblin is just as a guy as far as I know but he took some of GG's gear to be a pro thief, and Red Goblin is just GG with Carnage. The new Queen Goblin is moving into some severe redundancy however, it's just GG with a depression version of Penance stare.
Green was something of a scientist himself! Hob...not so much. Definitely not animal themed though.
Before Venom he might have had a serious case as his Arch. Then he kind of got eclipsed by the nega-spiderman of Venom. Norman ran off and started having his own non-spiderman storyline by the time Venom had gone anti-hero-y. Not sure who I'd say it would be now. So many of Pete's foes are tragic characters it's hard to label them as an arch-nemesis.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Was that in the 90s cartoon? I dipped in and out so the wider plot wasn't always obvious
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogoblin
If I remember right, the 90's cartoon had the unique wrinkle of the Hobgoblin coming first before the Green Goblin. But Osborn was always Green.
Some would probably argue Mephisto at this point which is terrible for our street-level, every-man hero, but Mephisto seems to be personally invested in making Parker's life miserable. Goblin is out of the game again because he's been rehabbed by Sin-Eater in an almost entirely terrible Kindred storyline that I can't fully hate because it undoes Gwen Stacy banging Norman.
Octopus is probably the most arch-nemesisy at the moment for his Superior Spider-Man arc but his most recent usages make him seem like a fairly incompetent foe so obsessed and blinded with his own perception of his greatness that all other interdimensional Octopi look down on him.
Pretty sure Hobgoblin was Jason Macendale in the cartoon. I think Harry went Green Goblin after seeing Norman’s “ghost” that was just him stuck in another dimension.
The 90s cartoon got weird.
Edit: Ultimate Universe had Harry go Hobgoblin I think.
It let me say the line though, so I'm fine with that.
I only read the original Superior run but didn't it end up with that Oct basically heroically letting Parker get back in control? He's the archtypical "tragic backstory" thing that makes the arch thing hard to justify. Though he sure starts the Superior run as a complete asshole.
I think that version of Ock died when he let Parker take back his body. The version we have now is a backed up copy he stored in a robot, pre Spider-Man takeover.
There was also a version where mephisto agreed to free Otto of some baggage holding him back if Otto also agreed to let go of some lingering Parker influence.
The challenge was whether or not Otto would have what it takes to be a good guy on his own if he didn't have any excuses to rely on.
“I have Sony Pictures on Line 1.”