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[Xbox] Thread brought to you by the Glitchfinder General.

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  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    For a while, around Xbox One launch I worked at MS and was manually inputting achievements and other game specific back-end data hooks/etc (the system for ingestion was totally broken) leading up to launch. Got a few games spoiled for me based on the Achievements.

    Achievement Unlocked - Help me! I've been kidnapped by Washingtonians to work in an underground dungeon in Redmond!

    The hot new light novel

  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    edited April 30
    Interesting Forza development: The original Forza Horizon and all the DLC(EDIT: DLC was not available, just listed) have re-appeared on the Microsoft Store, after being delisted years ago. It was available for $20 for about 6 hours, but is now no longer purchasable.

    Crippl3 on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Crippl3 wrote: »
    Interesting Forza development: The original Forza Horizon and all the DLC(EDIT: DLC was not available, just listed) have re-appeared on the Microsoft Store, after being delisted years ago. It was available for $20 for about 6 hours, but is now no longer purchasable.

    Wow...weird listing error (I have to assume); we seldom get those for games that old.

    Zilla360Nitsua
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    Dang, I'm disappointed I missed it. =(

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gif
    Crippl3
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Braid and Joe Danger 2 are currently free if you want them.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
    Forever ZefiroBlackDragon480JazzZilla360Andy JoeHeffling
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset when I got my series X but I finally started using it and it’s amazing!

    Having that hooked up to my Xbox while playing a shooter and simultaneously listing to Spotify is a vibe.

    BlackDragon480JazzZonugal
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    JazzZonugalBlackDragon480LBD_NytetraynSynthesisDisco11
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Yeah, I picked one up back in December as a Christmas present to myself after yet more problems with yet another wired headset.

    Holy shit, that thing was a good investment. Best accessory I've bought in more years than I care to count. It's awesome. And it works happily with my PC, my phone, my Switch (since it grew Bluetooth audio), and undoubtedly will go great with my Steam Deck when it arrives. I haven't tried it with my PS4 yet... I assume that's the only thing it won't work with.

    LostNinja
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    I don't remember this, but this sounds like something that would be true.

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gif
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular



    Squeenix just sold their Western studios and a bunch of IPs to Embracer Group (aka the giant games company acquiring megacorp that owns stuff like Gearbox and Deep Silver and more)
    Bet this kills any hope for a Guardians of the Galaxy sequel :(

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Well, on the positive side, that's a lot of cool franchises that will no longer be mismanaged by the clowns at Square Enix.

    No idea if Embracer Group is any better, though.

    JazzShadowfireshoeboxjeddyAndy JoeNitsuaLostNinjaZilla360BlackDragon480BRIAN BLESSED
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    "Imagine having to put on your CV that you sold Tomb Raider to at least partially fund some blockchain shit."

    Quite!

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Wow... That's not a lot of money? They could turn the cranks on their hundred gacha FF games and make that money in a night.

    syndalisAndy JoeHeffling
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    I own an LS35X instead, but I would still recommend Microsoft's option, since it comes with Dolby Atmos.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    I own an LS35X instead, but I would still recommend Microsoft's option, since it comes with Dolby Atmos.

    There are always options and preferences. And since there is always a bigger fish, there is obviously a better headphone solution out there. However, for ~$100 there are certainly worse options.

    I don't think it's perfect, but it works. I got it on sale and would have been just as happy with it at full price.

  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Well, on the positive side, that's a lot of cool franchises that will no longer be mismanaged by the clowns at Square Enix.

    No idea if Embracer Group is any better, though.

    Im going to assume no until proven otherwise.

    bloodatonementCrippl3Zilla360
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited May 2
    Synthesis wrote: »
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    I own an LS35X instead, but I would still recommend Microsoft's option, since it comes with Dolby Atmos.

    It came with a Dolby Atmos trial. To get it permanently I still had to buy Atmos, but on sale it wasn't a lot, like under £10. But it also carried over to Windows 10 for me as well as the Xbox, which was nice.

    My only issues with the headset are a) the battery life isn't stellar (15 hours on a full charge IIRC? Not sure I'm quite hitting that, but I haven't timed it), and b) I wish I could turn it on (to use with just a Bluetooth device, say) without it booting up my Xbox if it's paired. So it does get unpaired/re-paired on occasion. Also, active noise cancellation would've been nice but would've undoubtedly jacked the price higher.

    But it's comfortable, it fits my big head, it sounds great, and the controls are so sensibly designed it's a huge breath of fresh air. It's brilliant.

    Jazz on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    LostNinja wrote: »
    I can’t recall who recommended I get the Xbox wireless headset

    Everybody. The answer is Everybody.

    I own an LS35X instead, but I would still recommend Microsoft's option, since it comes with Dolby Atmos.

    It came with a Dolby Atmos trial. To get it permanently I still had to buy Atmos, but on sale it wasn't a lot, like under £10. But it also carried over to Windows 10 for me as well as the Xbox, which was nice.

    My only issues with the headset are a) the battery life isn't stellar (15 hours on a full charge IIRC? Not sure I'm quite hitting that, but I haven't timed it), and b) I wish I could turn it on (to use with just a Bluetooth device, say) without it booting up my Xbox if it's paired. So it does get unpaired/re-paired on occasion. Also, active noise cancellation would've been nice but would've undoubtedly jacked the price higher.

    But it's comfortable, it fits my big head, it sounds great, and the controls are so sensibly designed it's a huge breath of fresh air. It's brilliant.

    That's more than the LS35X from LucidSound (which also says "up to 15 hours", but I'm using it with the mic and moving it between multiple devices; the relink process probably drains the batteries further). I haven't used it much in a gaming context since I moved (and even before that, I had an LG soundbar with 3.1.2, though Dolby Atmos comes with a very noticeable delay unlike the headset), but I usually use it for Discord communications when hosting two 3 hour events, and generally I'd have to recharge it if I used much longer after that.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Day off from rain? Sure! I think I'll go back to Zoo Tycoon. Corrupted? What. So I have to reinstall it, fine. I'll just check my external HDD...not there. How large is it? 9.3GB.

    Fu-

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Some timely information on various relevant (hopefully) topics:

    1) It's Golden Week in Japan, and there's a corresponding Xbox Game sale on big-name Japanese titles. I may use this as an excuse to pick up Nier Replicant and current Fatal Frame game.

    2) Someone--either Paradox Entertainment or Microsoft--patched a bad BSOD for Crusader Kings 3 (the Xbox on PC version), wherein updating a particular mod ("Syncing playset" in the launcher's parlance) causes hard BSOD (tagged "BAD_POOL_CALLER") every single time at the same time. Normally I blame Microsoft for BSOD issues, but I was a little less inclined after I reproduced the same error not just on my Windows 10 gaming PC, but my Windows 11 Surface Pro which I've barely played any CK3 on, from the same issue. Something about how the Paradox launcher tries to update a mod downloaded from their website.

    The solution, fortunately, was just to delete the mod folder (under "My Documents/Paradox"), though in my case I deleted the whole system folder except for my saves. I wish I had thought about that before reinstalling the whole game and all its DLC, though it was a good idea to run Windows Update anyway. Hopefully someone else sees this and avoids the same mistake (I'll post this on the CK3 thread too).

  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/05/03/game-pass-may-2022-update/
    • Loot River (Cloud, Console, and PC) - Today (Day one on Game Pass)
    • Trek to Yomi (Cloud, Console, and PC) – May 5 (Day one on Game Pass)
    • Citizen Sleeper (Cloud, Console, and PC) – May 5 (Day one on Game Pass)
    • Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair Anniversary Edition (Cloud, Console, and PC) – May 10
    • Eiyuden Chronicle: Rising (Cloud, Console, and PC) – May 10 (Day one on Game Pass) (This is a prequel to the upcoming big Kickstarter game Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes, it is not the main game which is coming in 2023)
    • This War of Mine: Final Cut (Cloud, Console, and PC) – May 10
    • NHL 22 (Console) EA Play – May 12
    Leaving GP:
    Leaving May 10
    • Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas – The Definitive Edition (Cloud and Console)
    Leaving May 15
    • Enter The Gungeon (Cloud, Console, and PC)
    • Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster (Console and PC)
    • Remnant: From the Ashes (Cloud, Console, and PC)
    • Steep (Cloud and Console)
    • The Catch: Carp and Coarse (Cloud, Console, and PC)
    • The Wild at Heart (Cloud, Console, and PC)

    Shadowfire
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Also there's a new contest to win consoles, gift cards, Game Pass subscriptions, and more: https://xbox-playsweepstakes.promo.eprize.com/#/register
    Register there with your Microsoft account email, and then play 1 hour of a Game Pass game ON CONSOLE every day to earn an entry. There's new prizes every week until the 25th, and then 5 Grand Prize winners will be drawn that win a Series X, a $250 Xbox Gift Card, and $2000 in gift cards to buy a new chair, TV, and speakers.

    cB557
  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    edited May 3
    The design is very MS, but the address is kinda sketchy looking.

    Guess it legit. But not the clearest way to run thing, imho

    bloodatonement on
    Zdy0pmg.jpg
    Steam ID: Good Life
    CarpyLostNinja
  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    edited May 3
    The design is very MS, but the address is kinda sketchy looking.

    Looks super sketch but it's where the tile on the home screen takes you

    Edit: actually it's sketchier, the tile goes to a QR code that links to https://www.xboxplaysweepstakes.com/ which then redirects you to that eprize site

    Carpy on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Yeah, it would appear that Merkle (Inc.) is the corporate partner actually running the sweepstakes, and not Microsoft, but they were given the necessary media assets for their website.

  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    edited May 3
    Its literally linked in the monthly game pass announcement that i posted lol

    Crippl3 on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Carpy wrote: »
    The design is very MS, but the address is kinda sketchy looking.

    Looks super sketch but it's where the tile on the home screen takes you

    Edit: actually it's sketchier, the tile goes to a QR code that links to https://www.xboxplaysweepstakes.com/ which then redirects you to that eprize site

    It is on the Xbox Dashboard, it is not a scam.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Leaving this here because it's kind of shitting on Sony. Digital Foundry tested the newly added VRR features to PS5 and are mostly complaining that there is no system-level Low Framerate Compensation. An effective minimum of 48 FPS, even in 120 FPS mode, isn't really sufficient to keep your games steady in many situations, particularly something as unstable as Elden Ring that dips into the 30s even on performance. They did identify an effective LFC in Spider-Man, but only in the fidelity mode, so it seems that it is on developers to implement their own LFC, and only a handful have bothered so far. Xbox remains the better choice if VRR is an important feature to you, with it's effective system-wide handling of LFC.

    Synthesis
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    120hz and VRR is in the luxury category, yes.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    BlackDragon480ElkiSynthesisBRIAN BLESSED
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    Samsung QN90A, QN90B, Q6FN, Q6, Q6F, Sony X90J, or LG NANO85 would be other options. You're constrained on choice by going small on the size just as much as the features.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    ShadowfireSynthesis
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 4
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    Samsung QN90A, QN90B, Q6FN, Q6, Q6F, Sony X90J, or LG NANO85 would be other options. You're constrained on choice by going small on the size just as much as the features.

    Definitely, unfortunately size is a much more firm requirement than price, I can find more palatable prices at 55” but it’s a definite possibility I’d have to take it back because it won’t fit the space. I’ll look into those.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    Samsung QN90A, QN90B, Q6FN, Q6, Q6F, Sony X90J, or LG NANO85 would be other options. You're constrained on choice by going small on the size just as much as the features.

    Definitely, unfortunately size is a much more firm requirement than price, I can find more palatable prices at 55” but it’s a definite possibility I’d have to take it back because it won’t fit the space. I’ll look into those.

    What if you blow out a wall or two? That'll help the space problem.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    LG only recently brought their OLED's to the sub-48" side, and while they do come with the highest end HDMI 2.1 feature set, they're also the most expensive options (and because it's LG, they appear to be charging a premium on the 42" OLED to bring it up to the price of a 48").

    If you can't accommodate a 55" TV, you can't accommodate a 55" TV. This used to be true for most homes, after all. And if you can't afford LG's exorbitant markup*, your next best gaming television choice is probably is probably either a Samsung QLED, where you'll give up 120hz support at 4K for a 43" set that's actually reasonably priced.

    If money isn't an object, as unlikely as that seems, you have two other options: a Sony Bravia 43" (X85J is the best of those available at that price), which basically has a picture not much better or worse than a Samsung QLED, but at a higher price for the higher refresh rate. Or a Samsung Neo QLED at 43" (QN90A, I think, since there are very few Neo QLED lines as is), which has much superior picture (comparable to OLED in many respects, but way brighter), and is almost twice the price. Given your case, the best 43" Bravia that you can find might really be the best option for you (it's not often I recommend Bravias since, well, you're usually paying a lot more for little or nothing). I know I've quoted myself multiple times on this topic, but really, my breakdown from the start of the year is basically still relevant, with the caveat that inn the 40 to 50" range, there simply are far fewer sets.

    Really, the best options at 43" are Samsung's Neo QLED, and LG C2, in the sense that they're the only two TVs that have all the features (particularly gaming related) of the 55" to 65" models, and costs to reflect that. QLEDs don't, and LG Nanocells definitely don't. The Neo QLED is brighter (and, by the looks of it, cheaper). The C2 has Dolby Vision support. And the Sony Bravia is basically a Samsung QLED that does 120 hz, so it might be the way to go.

    *I can say that, I own a 65" C1, and even I know arranging your entire home around a television is stupid.
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Well, I got a decent tax return and found out that I can snag a series X through the All Access program so I finally bit the bullet. Getting here on Friday!

    Now I gotta upgrade my TV. Anyone have a suggestions? I don't need anything extravagant. Just something in the 42 to 50 range and that displays the games nicely.

    Congratulations. I took several attempts to replace my Samsung QLED (which itself was a perfectly serviceable television, but pre HDMI 2.1; I sold it to a friend who has been enjoying it for $600), and here's what I learned as far as 2021 sets are concerned.

    Vizio: A decent LCD/LED economy option, though an economy option nonetheless. Don't go any cheaper than the M-series, I'd recommend, and do your research to confirm that there's at least one HDMI 2.1 port (right now, the Xbox Series X is the single home console taking most advantage of that technology, between Dolby Vision support and the largest library of 4K/120hz games, including exclusives (and some games missing that mode on PS5). Like a lot of people, my first 4K TV more than five years ago was an Vizio-M; even without HDR10, it was a very nice panel that had good compatibility with third-party soundbars and good CEC implementation. Since then, we're well past the point where any TV over a certain panel size (34" to 40") will be a 4K (or UHD) panel, with or without HDR10, etc. You're going with Vizio because it is a cheaper manufacturer, but not Westinghouse or TCL cheap (though, especially in TCL's case, those options may be superior potentially). I can't weigh in on Vizio's OLED offerings, it could be the least expensive way to get into OLED if that's your goal specifically, and potentially avoid LG's hatred of any other company's soundbars (and their own).

    Samsung QLED: A mainstay, and probably the best LED (or conventional LCD) panels overall at the higher range. Even their small sub-40" offerings will be much superior to most of their competitors; they pretty much make the best 34" TV, which is "only" a Q60A (and equivalent), of anyone here since it incorporates many of the features of their largest panel. At 55" onwards, though, you have to decide if it's still competitive. They're popular for a reason, but the features QLED pioneered first--an actual meaningful game mode, VRR, low latency modes, etc., have become mainstream since then. If you can get a Q90 (or equivalent) at the price, or better, of the sets below, it's probably a solid choice, and you'll also manage to avoid the problem of "Why do LG make such good panels and are yet such fucking morons when it comes to everything else?" like a TV that works fine with other manufacturer's soundbars, has HDMI CEC that works immediately, etc., if those things matter to you. They're pretty much the only manufacturer with an 8K panel worth a damn, but that's an even more specific need given how little 8K content there is (the PS5 has the only 8K console game I've heard of, The Touryst, but even that is downscaled to 4K in practice). Overall, Samsung has excellent compatibility with other manufacturers, at least on this list. And the UI, while mediocre, is still better than LG's (and notably more responsive). The QLEDs are generally robust panels, and are designed as such (you can easily handle them without feeling like they're going to bend just enough to destroy the panel), and can even be left on for ambient decor, something even the most stalwart OLED defenders would discourage (not because of burn-in, but because QLED panels lose their brightness much slower than OLEDs with use). However, if you're in Q50 to Q60 territory, pay attention to what features you're missing (Samsung is tricky here) to save price. Colors can be almost as good as OLED, brightness is much superior, contrast isn't as good, and thus, viewing angles are not the best. This is probably the "average" point for fully taking advantage of Xbox Series X features, or close to it. I can't weigh in on their Quantum-OLED panels (effectively the combination of an OLED option with a backpanel; the technological justification seems to be a much brighter picture than you'd ever see with a regular OLED, but it immediately sacrifices Samsung's price advantage and propels them into high-end LG and Sony territory).

    LG: This is what I went with. It just took 3 tries due to a combination of LG's idiocy when it comes to device compatibility (LG's own televisions don't even work well with their own soundbars, a degree of staggering incompetence that it's hard to excuse), and then the bad luck of getting a defective panel (wouldn't power cycle and had an obvious distortion on the bottom third; I don't really blame LG for that, aside from the fact that C1's body is fragile and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if it was damaged in shipping). BTW, moving a 65" C1 is a potentially heart-attack inducing experience; we're talking a television whose body is, without exaggeration, 3/4 as thin or thinner than a smart phone, 1/4 is bulky, and weighs 15 to 20 pounds more than their competitor's 65" panels because LG apparently hired evil masterminds to design the body. Performance wise, as noted this is the television to beat, with both Dolby Vision and HDR10 support, HDMI 2.1 (allowing for 4K/120hz through all ports even on the small size, though I think you get fewer ports at 48"?), very good response (though frankly, even through instrumentation it sounds like LG is trying to oversell this compared to their competitors since they were late implementing VRR), and excellent picture quality (great colors, probably unbeatable contrast overall, excellent viewing angles as a result). The price you pay is a genuinely dim screen (especially if you have any OLED burn-in concerns, though fortunately television panels are far superior to guaranteed-to-burn-in smartphone panels) that, even at its brightest, isn't anywhere close to the brightness of Samsung (and other) LCD/LED panels. In a dim room, this really won't matter (and you'll really like the superior contrast); in a bright room, it's a bummer, buy lots of curtains and blinds. To be honest, I think with LG unless you get a really excellent deal there's no reason to consider anything but their OLED panels (even at the lower end, like the B-series where they are very clearly cutting corners); the LG Nano's are basically inferior versions of Samsung QLED's combined with LG's mediocre-to-terrible WebOS UI, and LG's incompetence with peripheral compatibility. With the G1 (or G-series going forward), you're paying a further premium for a slightly improved but otherwise technologically EVO panel, a body that is more similar to something like a Samsung QLED/Quantum OLED (i.e. not stupid and flimsy)...and no stand or feet, because you're supposed to mount it. LolLG.

    (Addendum: LG recently announced sub-48" OLED panels which, depending on your space needs, is potentially a game changer, since previously you'd be limited to Samsung QLED at best in that size range. These are coming in 2022 I think.)

    Sony Bravia: These are extremely hard to justify for me, especially in the wake of LG C1, and Sony openly deciding they don't give a crap about PSNow, thereby removing the in-built Playstation streaming option. For near-G1 prices, you're getting worse HDMI support (some of the Sony OLED panels only have one of their ports that supports HDMI 2.1, though at least all are HDMI 2.0 capable; some have fewer HDMI ports in general), comparable or slightly worse response time performance, all for...Sony's apparently amazing AI-equipped rendering chip? Which I'm assured is totally game changing? These are probably boneheaded decisions Sony will get around to correcting as some point, hopefully with their 2022 sets if they haven't already. At least they probably don't have LG's absurd incompatibility issues. This would be easier if Sony at least tried to match C1 prices considering their set is...slightly less capable multiple ways. There are probably Bravia owners who can put me in my place.

    Hopefully there's some useful advice here.
    [/quote]

    Synthesis on
    Elki
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Leaving this here because it's kind of shitting on Sony. Digital Foundry tested the newly added VRR features to PS5 and are mostly complaining that there is no system-level Low Framerate Compensation. An effective minimum of 48 FPS, even in 120 FPS mode, isn't really sufficient to keep your games steady in many situations, particularly something as unstable as Elden Ring that dips into the 30s even on performance. They did identify an effective LFC in Spider-Man, but only in the fidelity mode, so it seems that it is on developers to implement their own LFC, and only a handful have bothered so far. Xbox remains the better choice if VRR is an important feature to you, with it's effective system-wide handling of LFC.

    Watching the whole video, this really is...the most insider baseball of insider baseball. But that aside; I wonder if we're seeing unanticipated results of of Microsoft spending almost 3 decades as a graphics API programming company (a central, if overlooked, feature of their operating systems becoming the de facto standard globally), versus Sony's frankly more limited experience and implementation (and also relying on things like Vulkan instead, which don't have investments in millions of dollars over decades the way DirectX has).

    Like, Sony is the home console video game platform holder, as much as there is one. Excluding the Playstation 3, which never quite recovered from a disastrous launch and had to rely on carving out a loyal audience in Japan and Europe for being distantly behind in the Americas, they have enjoyed a steady stream of success stories (I'm going to ignore the handheld space here; in other words, like Sony does). But all their consoles--including the very successful ones--have histories of making various technological concessions on the graphics processing side. The Playstation 1 was woefully underpowered, as was the Playstation 2, and both were painfully obviously behind their contemporaries (though the PS1 was saved by good use of the optical medium at least); even though both were hugely successful. The Playstation 3, effectively Sony's most earnest attempt at "home console supercomputing" was basically a long string of graphics flops; even the best games (Heavenly Sword, Killzone 2, Motorstorm) are really just as good as the best looking games on Microsoft's year-older, and cheaper, home console--and the comfortable majority of multiplatform titles look worse on Plasytation 3. The PS4 had a genuine hardware advantage over Xbox One (especially in GPU, though I think the memory was marginally slower?), and at least made use of it, but again Microsoft was capable of matching the PS4 visually for first party games, then made a point of clearing the PSFro with the XB1X.

    All that time in the past (well, except on PS3), Sony was still able to maintain comfortable leadership in the marketspace, but they've always been playing catch-up graphically one way or another. There are individual Playstation 2 titles that are visually stunning, but they still don't hold up next to the early high-definition titles on the original Xbox, and they were largely the products of grueling optimization and programming. With PS5, you get games that have a framerate edge on Xbox Series X (and sometimes the reverse too); I wonder if we're looking at not a hardware issue but just the nature of the tools Sony distributes to its programmers; things that 99% of the audience will probably never notice, but are ultimately flawed in ways that Sony may or may not bother to correct (like the years it took them to allow installations on external drives, versus Microsoft having them on the console's day one).

    That's all just pure speculation though.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Which of PS1's "contemporaries" were better at drawing polygons? Infamously not the Saturn. The 3DO? The Jaguar? Maybe the Nuon? Yes you had some weird texture warping, but nothing in the home console space was able to push more polys till the N64 three years later, which learned the hard way how dead cartridge media was. Sony is primarily responsible for making 3D console gaming a success and facilitating the transition with easier development tools at a time when studios were struggling to abandon 2D art, and the original PS1 was the excellent hardware that made that possible.

    The PS2 went down a weird path because they eschewed a traditional and more expensive GPU for what was mostly a big shader pipeline. This did allow some remarkable efficency as this was the only console that could actually render interlaced fields, as opposed to everyone else who rendered a full frame and discarded half the information. When the majority of consumer displays were still 480i that's just a waste, at least for 60 FPS games. Their custom solution thoroughly trounced the Dreamcast that came before them for cheaper, and had time to cement market dominance against the slightly stronger systems that came later. (XBox was supposedly a response to Sony's PS2 *announcement*: who was playing catch-up?)

    PS3 was their first real technical faux pas. According to rumors the Cell processor alone was supposed to *be* the GPU, but they took so long developing the thing that it fell behind standard GPU technology and so they had to throw in a stock small GPU to keep up. So then software devs had to figure out what to do with all these extra cores that weren't taking on much graphics rendering, and they often came up blank, given that it was way more cores than any other system had. Meanwhile the cell consumed space, heat, and money that could've gone into a better traditional GPU. Other companies around them sailed to victory precisely because they didn't pour their efforts into a highly custom CPU design.

    Don't know much about the PS4 but it seems that both them and Microsoft kind of phoned it in, expecting the console market to shrink. But everything I've seen about the PS5 suggets they worked closer with AMD on customizations than Microsoft has. They have fewer tflops than the Series X, but can usually keep pace in games FPS with their higher dynamic clocks. They put more effort into maximizing fewer resources, and probably ended up with something that's a little cheaper to manufacture than a Series X. They also developed that custom SSD that outpaces Microsoft, I don't know how much that's practically going to be taken advantage of, but it's a tech advantage nonetheless.

    In short Sony has made some goofs, and yes they sometimes pick price over performance, but I would not overall characterize them as being behind the ball technically. The PS3 was their big moment of hubris where they tried to push their home designed CPU and that dragged down the rest of product, and it's the same moment they failed in the market. The rest has been success they largely earned by making smart custom optimizations using other's tech.

    If anything here it's probably more to do with their TV division dragging their feet on VRR, and the Playstation division not getting out ahead of that. I don't think it's coincidence that we get the first PS5 VRR update around the same month when Sony's TVs do, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get better LFC support later once they've had more time.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Which of PS1's "contemporaries" were better at drawing polygons? Infamously not the Saturn. The 3DO? The Jaguar? Maybe the Nuon? Yes you had some weird texture warping, but nothing in the home console space was able to push more polys till the N64 three years later, which learned the hard way how dead cartridge media was. Sony is primarily responsible for making 3D console gaming a success and facilitating the transition with easier development tools at a time when studios were struggling to abandon 2D art, and the original PS1 was the excellent hardware that made that possible.

    Actually, yes, I was immediately thinking of the Nintendo 64, which had such obvious advantages in this area (and serious disadvantages in audio, texture, and other asset storage, since they couldn't leverage the CD-ROM). You can actually see this in comparatively early 3D games on Nintendo 64 games able to render larger 3D worlds--without the Playstation's trademark massive texture warping and shimmering.

    It was a year and a half later, by the way, not three: the Nintendo 64 launched in June 1996, the Playstation in December 1994. If that's not "contemporary", then the Playstation 3 isn't with the Xbox 360 either.

    (There's also the contemporary generation of 3D accelerator hardware, but given the costs involved, I'm reluctant to compare them. Still, as bleem! more than adequately demonstrated--a mid-range PC with a first-generation consumer 3D accelerator could effectively imitate a PS1; a higher-range PC could do the same, at quadruple the resolution, while the Playstation 1 was still being manufactured. But a mid-range PC was, what, twice the cost of a Playstation console or more?)

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 4
    I think the DF guys are unfortunately right in that it is unlikely Sony is going to make the changes they want to the VRR implementation.

    That video got me thinking about my eventual main TV upgrade (not the bedroom one). As I was looking at reviews yesterday, a consistent thing I kept seeing was complaints about local dimming performance with VRR turned on, which DF talked about. It seems imminently solvable, since the culprit would be a weak SoC, but that’s the precise area most manufacturers would cut back on for costs. Also, the Hisense UG7 that the NYT loves is outside my size range, but I was seeing complaints that its mediatek SoC struggles with 120hz 4k gaming (degradation of IQ) even though it’s a listed feature along with 2.1 HDMI.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I think the DF guys are unfortunately right in that it is unlikely Sony is going to make the changes they want to the VRR implementation.

    That video me thinking about my eventual main TV upgrade (not the bedroom one). As I was looking at reviews yesterday, a consistent thing I kept seeing was complaints about local dimming performance with VRR turned on, which DF talked about. It seems imminently solvable, since the culprit would be a weak SoC, but that’s the precise area most manufacturers would cut back on for costs. Also, the Hisense UG7 that the NYT loves is outside my size range, but I was seeing complaints that its mediatek SoC struggles with 120hz 4k gaming (degradation of IQ) even though it’s a listed feature along with 2.1 HDMI.

    Unfortunately, specifically for 4K/120hz functionality, everything that isn't an LG C or G-series OLED is going to have an obvious compromise--and the market is really not positioning smaller OLED television favorably (there was some outcry about the 42" LG C2 costing slightly more than the 48" model from retailers, while having one fewer HDMI ports). And that's putting aside that an OLED panel...is kind a type of compromise in of itself ("not very bright"), just one that a lot of people (myself included) have learned to live with. The full HDMI 2.1 functionality is the way to go for future-proofing; it just happens that right now isn't a great time to buy into that on smaller panels, despite the fact that television shortages really haven't been a thing in the way other hardware has (I bought my first LG C1--the one I had to return--during the height of the GPU shortage, effectively the first time it went on sale). You could buy a Samsung Neo QLED, but you'd be paying a premium and giving up Dolby Vision support (which...is kind of a esoteric thing even on Xbox, literally the only game in town for playing games in Dolby Vision, unless you owned a DV-compatible bluray player or streaming device). At least you wouldn't need to worry abought brightness.

    On top of that, the large majority of Playstation 4 and 5 games don't support 120 hz gameplay at any resolution--so do Xbox titles, but even more so, since there's no Playstation equivalent of the FPS Boost program. If Sony is comfortable taking a few years to implement a basic QOL fix like "Let us install games on USB storage" on the Playstation 4, for something this nuanced I don't really see them being faster. Being preoccupied with supply issues probably won't help.

    Really, the best advice in this situation is basically the same thing 99% of the time when television shopping: if you can afford to wait, do so. I wouldn't have bought my LG C1 (especially after having to return an earlier purchase) if it hadn't been discounted by $600 from MSRP. If I had waited until now, I could probably get that discount closer to $900. You can almost guarantee that the C2 is going to see similar discounts, including the 42" panel, unless LG decides that it's not interested in meeting demand (as oppose to generating large amounts of surplus Evo panels in every other size).

    It sucks (considering how inexpensive many small 4K panels from Samsung, etc., can be, you might be able to justify that as a provisional television until either OLEDs or Neo OLEDs go down in price).

  • nusunusu Registered User regular
    edited May 5
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m shopping for a new TV for the bedroom, but I can’t find too many options. I’m looking for something that’s 42-50”, 120hz + vrr, with local dimming. The only thing that fits the criteria is the 42” LG C2, but it’s bit pricey for a secondary TV and it doesn’t look like it’s a available yet. I can either settle for 60hz, or pay up.

    The 48" C1 is on clearance sale for ~$1k (for as long as you can find it in stock) if that fits your budget a bit better. It has all the gaming stats you're looking for.

    nusu on
    Elki
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