Let's determine the top 50 games of all time.

Kane Red Robe

Hold on, we have divergent lists, what happened?

Lindsay Lohan

I'd like to see Ico put back in for Shadow of the Colossus but can't do it myself. It's a smaller story, I think was the better game, and frankly isn't held back by technology like Shadow is.

#pipe

Lindsay Lohan wrote: »

I'd like to see Ico put back in for Shadow of the Colossus but can't do it myself. It's a smaller story, I think was the better game, and frankly isn't held back by technology like Shadow is.

I cannot disagree harder!

Kelor

The SotC redo on PS4 solves all the frame rate issues it had on PS2, and even if it didn't exist SotC is so good it would have a pretty good chance on this list.

jungleroomx

Kelor wrote: »

jungleroomx wrote: »

Kelor wrote: »

I spent about two hours the other night trying to get a controller working with Sekiro after picking it up on the sale, so we're on bad terms right now.

Edit: I still haven't managed to get it working.

On PC?

What kind of controller, and have you updated to Windows 11 if this IS on PC?

On PC. I tried 360, Xbox1 and PS4 controllers, no luck. Tried through regular, big picture mode, three third party controller programs.

It even would recognise if I hit the system button to open up Steam, but whenever I was in the menus it wouldn't register any button presses but that.

If you go into Big Picture Mode > Sekiro > Manage Game > Controller Configuration, does this pop up?

Kelor

I believe this is the current list from Kanye Red Robe's changes on the page onwards.

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Homeworld
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Xenoblade Chronicles X
-- Zone of the Enders: Fist of Mars

Kelor

jungleroomx wrote: »

Kelor wrote: »

jungleroomx wrote: »

Kelor wrote: »

I spent about two hours the other night trying to get a controller working with Sekiro after picking it up on the sale, so we're on bad terms right now.

Edit: I still haven't managed to get it working.

On PC?

What kind of controller, and have you updated to Windows 11 if this IS on PC?

On PC. I tried 360, Xbox1 and PS4 controllers, no luck. Tried through regular, big picture mode, three third party controller programs.

It even would recognise if I hit the system button to open up Steam, but whenever I was in the menus it wouldn't register any button presses but that.

If you go into Big Picture Mode > Sekiro > Manage Game > Controller Configuration, does this pop up?

Tried that too and all of it's variations, had no luck at all.

I ended up refunding it, I'll get it on some other sale, Elden Ring is just around the corner.

Hoping that the Bloodborne port eventually happens, because it was almost unplayable on PS4. The frame rate was incredibly frustrating.

Speed Racer

tired: the ps2 version of SotC suffers terribly from its godawful framerate, thank god it got ported and then remade because it's cool but borderline unplayable

wired: actually the bad framerate in the original release rules, it gives the colossi a stop-motion animation quality that makes them feel even bigger and more impactful than they already are, the remaster and remake both lose something signficant by having such a smooth framerate

every time i load up a modern version of SotC i see that hawk fly by way too smoothly and immediatley turn my nose up

UnbrokenEva

Kayne Red Robe wrote: »

Remove Sid Meier’s Pirates! (2004)
Add Pirates! Gold

The 2004 remake was pretty faithful but it lost a lot of the charm of the original pixel art.

- snip-

*sees Pirates! (2004) absent from the list, starts frantically checking the last few pages to see who my nemesis is*
*finds this*
*puts knife down, nods in acceptance*

Grislo

Removed: Zone of the Enders: Fist of Mars

Added: Bomberman (94)

The best LAN game of all time. Nothing beats Bomberman when you're playing against people in the same room. Amazing and electric, will end in threats of violence every time.

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Homeworld
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Xenoblade Chronicles X

discrider

Remove: boring Homeworld
Add: Actually good spaceship game Descent

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Descent
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Xenoblade Chronicles X
-- Zone of the Enders: Fist of Mars[/quote]

Polaritie

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Might need to do a little housecleaning - didn't Etrian already get kicked in favor of bringing TF2 back?

Currently deciding who I wanna merc to get Persona 4 or Yakuza 0 in there somewhere

Yes, and it was absolutely criminal, the list should have a proper dungeon crawler on it.

...OTOH, there's eight valid releases in the series I can use. But V's my favorite.

As to compilations - I think an individual game from a compilation would be valid, e.g. Final Fantasy I from the GBA port.

WeedLordVegeta

Polaritie wrote: »

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Might need to do a little housecleaning - didn't Etrian already get kicked in favor of bringing TF2 back?

Currently deciding who I wanna merc to get Persona 4 or Yakuza 0 in there somewhere

Yes, and it was absolutely criminal, the list should have a proper dungeon crawler on it.

...OTOH, there's eight valid releases in the series I can use. But V's my favorite.

As to compilations - I think an individual game from a compilation would be valid, e.g. Final Fantasy I from the GBA port.

Yeah then you'd just specify the year of release

Speed Racer

discrider wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Well, we're at 50 games on here, so, ya knew this was coming...

-- Remove Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
-- Add Tetris (there's more than one? Gameboy SNES or whatever)

Alright, welp, time to make my case

I think it is entirely reasonable to fight for the original GameBoy Tetris to be on this list. It's not the first Tetris, but it's an early one, and is sort of the posterboy for "classic" Tetris. If you think of Tetris, your mind probably snaps to the GameBoy or the NES version. Basically everyone's played them, and I mean everyone; your grandma might suddenly reveal that she's just low-key one of the best Tetris players in the world, and that rules. It's fuckin' Tetris, it doesn't need me arguing for it.

Some folks tend to balk at modern Tetris, which enshrines former exploits like T-spins into its ruleset and which gives you the option to hold onto a block, or if you're really nitpicky you might be upset about the grab-bag RNG that ensures an equal distribution of pieces. Tetris is a very beloved, very simple, very pure game, so I understand the negative reaction to changing even one hair on its head. That said, if you really spend a lot of time deep into Tetris, these changes all make a lot of sense. They open the game up to a greater degree of strategic decisions, which are particularly valuable in the competitive variation of the game, but which also allow for tactical thought and expressivity even in solo play, without intruding on the core identity of the game; do you go for straightforward Tetrises or higher-scoring T-spins that are more complicated to set up? Do you use your Hold to save a valuable piece or to send an inconvenient piece away? These are absolutely changes for the better. Watching a pro play Old Tetris is still pretty dazzling, because it's like watching someone wrestle a freight train, and it's super impressive to see someone bend such a stubborn, unforgiving game any which way they want to. High-level play of modern Tetris is still beautiful in its own right though. There's an elegance to it, and it moves so fast that you can barely even parse individual moves, even though you can follow the overarching flow of the game. If this appeal fails I'm definitely still gonna be fighting tooth and nail to get some version of modern Tetris on the list alongside the old variety. I think Tetris is a Big Enough Deal that it can justify two slots on the list.

Puyo Puyo is much less popular, especially in the west, but it's a fascinating game. It's extremely simple on its face, with a ruleset that doesn't look that different from say, Candy Crush. But a few key differences in its rulest make it a game with nigh-on infinite depth. Combine that with its focus on two-player versus and it is in my opinion sincerely one of the greatest competitive games ever made, with a skill ceiling that rivals or exceeds most fighting games but controls and rules that are so simple that I understood how it worked when I was 5. Just like with Tetris, if this appeal doesn't do it for anybody I'm prepared to get real annoying and burn a lotta posts to get some version or another of Puyo Puyo on the list.

Puyo Puyo Tetris is the Reese's Cup of competitive puzzlers. Mashing up two of the greatest puzzle games ever made is a brilliant idea, and the PPT games have as much fun with the concept as they can. You can play Tetris vs. someone playing Puyo. You can play party game modes that drop Tetris blocks and Puyos into the same well. You can play my favorite mode, Swap, where you play Tetris against an opponent for 25 seconds before switching over to a Puyo board, which then switches back after another 25 seconds, forcing both players to keep both games in their head simultaneously and allowing for combo chains that extend across both boards. You can just play Tetris vs. Tetris or Puyo vs. Puyo, or play both games in single player. There's a tutorial mode with "lessons" designed by pro-level players of both games to help you get your hands on the lower rungs of the ladder to high-level play. There's an entire story mode that's basically a light-hearted, cartoonish visual novel about the cast of Puyo Puyo meeting aliens from a Tetris dimension; visual novels are generally not really my speed so I'll admit that this mode sort of fails to hold my interest, but my point in bringing it up is that it's really a package that has something for everyone. As for why PPT2 specifically, It's mostly a toss-up between it and PPT1. 2 has more playable characters (which ultimately matter very little, but still) and just a little extra visual flair, but they are functionally the exact same game. I'd be perfectly happy with either of them being here.

But honestly, actual virtues of the game aside, I'd say that someone should put Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 onto the list just to stop me from trying to eat up two slots with different versions of Puyo Puyo and modern Tetris. This is the most efficient way to get both games on the list. This block is droppin' no matter what, and I think we'd all be happier if we just T-spun it into an open cranny instead of letting it pile up on top.

Reese's peanut butter cups taste like vomit though.

I see, so you've chosen violence.

@WeedLordVegeta I'll cut Monster Hunter Rise to put Threes back if you cut Descent for Puyo Puyo Tetris 2

Grislo

Fixing the list, I think Discrider was working on his when I posted:

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Descent
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Xenoblade Chronicles X

Polaritie

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Well, we're at 50 games on here, so, ya knew this was coming...

-- Remove Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
-- Add Tetris (there's more than one? Gameboy SNES or whatever)

Alright, welp, time to make my case

I think it is entirely reasonable to fight for the original GameBoy Tetris to be on this list. It's not the first Tetris, but it's an early one, and is sort of the posterboy for "classic" Tetris. If you think of Tetris, your mind probably snaps to the GameBoy or the NES version. Basically everyone's played them, and I mean everyone; your grandma might suddenly reveal that she's just low-key one of the best Tetris players in the world, and that rules. It's fuckin' Tetris, it doesn't need me arguing for it.

Some folks tend to balk at modern Tetris, which enshrines former exploits like T-spins into its ruleset and which gives you the option to hold onto a block, or if you're really nitpicky you might be upset about the grab-bag RNG that ensures an equal distribution of pieces. Tetris is a very beloved, very simple, very pure game, so I understand the negative reaction to changing even one hair on its head. That said, if you really spend a lot of time deep into Tetris, these changes all make a lot of sense. They open the game up to a greater degree of strategic decisions, which are particularly valuable in the competitive variation of the game, but which also allow for tactical thought and expressivity even in solo play, without intruding on the core identity of the game; do you go for straightforward Tetrises or higher-scoring T-spins that are more complicated to set up? Do you use your Hold to save a valuable piece or to send an inconvenient piece away? These are absolutely changes for the better. Watching a pro play Old Tetris is still pretty dazzling, because it's like watching someone wrestle a freight train, and it's super impressive to see someone bend such a stubborn, unforgiving game any which way they want to. High-level play of modern Tetris is still beautiful in its own right though. There's an elegance to it, and it moves so fast that you can barely even parse individual moves, even though you can follow the overarching flow of the game. If this appeal fails I'm definitely still gonna be fighting tooth and nail to get some version of modern Tetris on the list alongside the old variety. I think Tetris is a Big Enough Deal that it can justify two slots on the list.

Puyo Puyo is much less popular, especially in the west, but it's a fascinating game. It's extremely simple on its face, with a ruleset that doesn't look that different from say, Candy Crush. But a few key differences in its rulest make it a game with nigh-on infinite depth. Combine that with its focus on two-player versus and it is in my opinion sincerely one of the greatest competitive games ever made, with a skill ceiling that rivals or exceeds most fighting games but controls and rules that are so simple that I understood how it worked when I was 5. Just like with Tetris, if this appeal doesn't do it for anybody I'm prepared to get real annoying and burn a lotta posts to get some version or another of Puyo Puyo on the list.

Puyo Puyo Tetris is the Reese's Cup of competitive puzzlers. Mashing up two of the greatest puzzle games ever made is a brilliant idea, and the PPT games have as much fun with the concept as they can. You can play Tetris vs. someone playing Puyo. You can play party game modes that drop Tetris blocks and Puyos into the same well. You can play my favorite mode, Swap, where you play Tetris against an opponent for 25 seconds before switching over to a Puyo board, which then switches back after another 25 seconds, forcing both players to keep both games in their head simultaneously and allowing for combo chains that extend across both boards. You can just play Tetris vs. Tetris or Puyo vs. Puyo, or play both games in single player. There's a tutorial mode with "lessons" designed by pro-level players of both games to help you get your hands on the lower rungs of the ladder to high-level play. There's an entire story mode that's basically a light-hearted, cartoonish visual novel about the cast of Puyo Puyo meeting aliens from a Tetris dimension; visual novels are generally not really my speed so I'll admit that this mode sort of fails to hold my interest, but my point in bringing it up is that it's really a package that has something for everyone. As for why PPT2 specifically, It's mostly a toss-up between it and PPT1. 2 has more playable characters (which ultimately matter very little, but still) and just a little extra visual flair, but they are functionally the exact same game. I'd be perfectly happy with either of them being here.

But honestly, actual virtues of the game aside, I'd say that someone should put Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 onto the list just to stop me from trying to eat up two slots with different versions of Puyo Puyo and modern Tetris. This is the most efficient way to get both games on the list. This block is droppin' no matter what, and I think we'd all be happier if we just T-spun it into an open cranny instead of letting it pile up on top.

Reese's peanut butter cups taste like vomit though.

I see, so you've chosen violence.

@WeedLordVegeta I'll cut Monster Hunter Rise to put Threes back if you cut Descent for Puyo Puyo Tetris 2

Surely there's a different option to cut than Rise.

Brolo

My ego is far too fragile to participate in this thread.

Speed Racer

Polaritie wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Well, we're at 50 games on here, so, ya knew this was coming...

-- Remove Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
-- Add Tetris (there's more than one? Gameboy SNES or whatever)

Alright, welp, time to make my case

I think it is entirely reasonable to fight for the original GameBoy Tetris to be on this list. It's not the first Tetris, but it's an early one, and is sort of the posterboy for "classic" Tetris. If you think of Tetris, your mind probably snaps to the GameBoy or the NES version. Basically everyone's played them, and I mean everyone; your grandma might suddenly reveal that she's just low-key one of the best Tetris players in the world, and that rules. It's fuckin' Tetris, it doesn't need me arguing for it.

Some folks tend to balk at modern Tetris, which enshrines former exploits like T-spins into its ruleset and which gives you the option to hold onto a block, or if you're really nitpicky you might be upset about the grab-bag RNG that ensures an equal distribution of pieces. Tetris is a very beloved, very simple, very pure game, so I understand the negative reaction to changing even one hair on its head. That said, if you really spend a lot of time deep into Tetris, these changes all make a lot of sense. They open the game up to a greater degree of strategic decisions, which are particularly valuable in the competitive variation of the game, but which also allow for tactical thought and expressivity even in solo play, without intruding on the core identity of the game; do you go for straightforward Tetrises or higher-scoring T-spins that are more complicated to set up? Do you use your Hold to save a valuable piece or to send an inconvenient piece away? These are absolutely changes for the better. Watching a pro play Old Tetris is still pretty dazzling, because it's like watching someone wrestle a freight train, and it's super impressive to see someone bend such a stubborn, unforgiving game any which way they want to. High-level play of modern Tetris is still beautiful in its own right though. There's an elegance to it, and it moves so fast that you can barely even parse individual moves, even though you can follow the overarching flow of the game. If this appeal fails I'm definitely still gonna be fighting tooth and nail to get some version of modern Tetris on the list alongside the old variety. I think Tetris is a Big Enough Deal that it can justify two slots on the list.

Puyo Puyo is much less popular, especially in the west, but it's a fascinating game. It's extremely simple on its face, with a ruleset that doesn't look that different from say, Candy Crush. But a few key differences in its rulest make it a game with nigh-on infinite depth. Combine that with its focus on two-player versus and it is in my opinion sincerely one of the greatest competitive games ever made, with a skill ceiling that rivals or exceeds most fighting games but controls and rules that are so simple that I understood how it worked when I was 5. Just like with Tetris, if this appeal doesn't do it for anybody I'm prepared to get real annoying and burn a lotta posts to get some version or another of Puyo Puyo on the list.

Puyo Puyo Tetris is the Reese's Cup of competitive puzzlers. Mashing up two of the greatest puzzle games ever made is a brilliant idea, and the PPT games have as much fun with the concept as they can. You can play Tetris vs. someone playing Puyo. You can play party game modes that drop Tetris blocks and Puyos into the same well. You can play my favorite mode, Swap, where you play Tetris against an opponent for 25 seconds before switching over to a Puyo board, which then switches back after another 25 seconds, forcing both players to keep both games in their head simultaneously and allowing for combo chains that extend across both boards. You can just play Tetris vs. Tetris or Puyo vs. Puyo, or play both games in single player. There's a tutorial mode with "lessons" designed by pro-level players of both games to help you get your hands on the lower rungs of the ladder to high-level play. There's an entire story mode that's basically a light-hearted, cartoonish visual novel about the cast of Puyo Puyo meeting aliens from a Tetris dimension; visual novels are generally not really my speed so I'll admit that this mode sort of fails to hold my interest, but my point in bringing it up is that it's really a package that has something for everyone. As for why PPT2 specifically, It's mostly a toss-up between it and PPT1. 2 has more playable characters (which ultimately matter very little, but still) and just a little extra visual flair, but they are functionally the exact same game. I'd be perfectly happy with either of them being here.

But honestly, actual virtues of the game aside, I'd say that someone should put Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 onto the list just to stop me from trying to eat up two slots with different versions of Puyo Puyo and modern Tetris. This is the most efficient way to get both games on the list. This block is droppin' no matter what, and I think we'd all be happier if we just T-spun it into an open cranny instead of letting it pile up on top.

Reese's peanut butter cups taste like vomit though.

I see, so you've chosen violence.

@WeedLordVegeta I'll cut Monster Hunter Rise to put Threes back if you cut Descent for Puyo Puyo Tetris 2

Surely there's a different option to cut than Rise.

i'm just offering to reverse the move that they said made them mad, i'll cut whatever they want me to

UnbrokenEva

Remove: Descent (come on, not even Freespace?)
Add: Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Xenoblade Chronicles X

WeedLordVegeta

Polaritie wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

discrider wrote: »

Well, we're at 50 games on here, so, ya knew this was coming...

-- Remove Puyo Puyo Tetris 2
-- Add Tetris (there's more than one? Gameboy SNES or whatever)

Alright, welp, time to make my case

I think it is entirely reasonable to fight for the original GameBoy Tetris to be on this list. It's not the first Tetris, but it's an early one, and is sort of the posterboy for "classic" Tetris. If you think of Tetris, your mind probably snaps to the GameBoy or the NES version. Basically everyone's played them, and I mean everyone; your grandma might suddenly reveal that she's just low-key one of the best Tetris players in the world, and that rules. It's fuckin' Tetris, it doesn't need me arguing for it.

Some folks tend to balk at modern Tetris, which enshrines former exploits like T-spins into its ruleset and which gives you the option to hold onto a block, or if you're really nitpicky you might be upset about the grab-bag RNG that ensures an equal distribution of pieces. Tetris is a very beloved, very simple, very pure game, so I understand the negative reaction to changing even one hair on its head. That said, if you really spend a lot of time deep into Tetris, these changes all make a lot of sense. They open the game up to a greater degree of strategic decisions, which are particularly valuable in the competitive variation of the game, but which also allow for tactical thought and expressivity even in solo play, without intruding on the core identity of the game; do you go for straightforward Tetrises or higher-scoring T-spins that are more complicated to set up? Do you use your Hold to save a valuable piece or to send an inconvenient piece away? These are absolutely changes for the better. Watching a pro play Old Tetris is still pretty dazzling, because it's like watching someone wrestle a freight train, and it's super impressive to see someone bend such a stubborn, unforgiving game any which way they want to. High-level play of modern Tetris is still beautiful in its own right though. There's an elegance to it, and it moves so fast that you can barely even parse individual moves, even though you can follow the overarching flow of the game. If this appeal fails I'm definitely still gonna be fighting tooth and nail to get some version of modern Tetris on the list alongside the old variety. I think Tetris is a Big Enough Deal that it can justify two slots on the list.

Puyo Puyo is much less popular, especially in the west, but it's a fascinating game. It's extremely simple on its face, with a ruleset that doesn't look that different from say, Candy Crush. But a few key differences in its rulest make it a game with nigh-on infinite depth. Combine that with its focus on two-player versus and it is in my opinion sincerely one of the greatest competitive games ever made, with a skill ceiling that rivals or exceeds most fighting games but controls and rules that are so simple that I understood how it worked when I was 5. Just like with Tetris, if this appeal doesn't do it for anybody I'm prepared to get real annoying and burn a lotta posts to get some version or another of Puyo Puyo on the list.

Puyo Puyo Tetris is the Reese's Cup of competitive puzzlers. Mashing up two of the greatest puzzle games ever made is a brilliant idea, and the PPT games have as much fun with the concept as they can. You can play Tetris vs. someone playing Puyo. You can play party game modes that drop Tetris blocks and Puyos into the same well. You can play my favorite mode, Swap, where you play Tetris against an opponent for 25 seconds before switching over to a Puyo board, which then switches back after another 25 seconds, forcing both players to keep both games in their head simultaneously and allowing for combo chains that extend across both boards. You can just play Tetris vs. Tetris or Puyo vs. Puyo, or play both games in single player. There's a tutorial mode with "lessons" designed by pro-level players of both games to help you get your hands on the lower rungs of the ladder to high-level play. There's an entire story mode that's basically a light-hearted, cartoonish visual novel about the cast of Puyo Puyo meeting aliens from a Tetris dimension; visual novels are generally not really my speed so I'll admit that this mode sort of fails to hold my interest, but my point in bringing it up is that it's really a package that has something for everyone. As for why PPT2 specifically, It's mostly a toss-up between it and PPT1. 2 has more playable characters (which ultimately matter very little, but still) and just a little extra visual flair, but they are functionally the exact same game. I'd be perfectly happy with either of them being here.

But honestly, actual virtues of the game aside, I'd say that someone should put Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 onto the list just to stop me from trying to eat up two slots with different versions of Puyo Puyo and modern Tetris. This is the most efficient way to get both games on the list. This block is droppin' no matter what, and I think we'd all be happier if we just T-spun it into an open cranny instead of letting it pile up on top.

Reese's peanut butter cups taste like vomit though.

I see, so you've chosen violence.

WeedLordVegeta I'll cut Monster Hunter Rise to put Threes back if you cut Descent for Puyo Puyo Tetris 2

Surely there's a different option to cut than Rise.

I would rather World or Tri be on this list from Rise but I'm not making more cuts yet

Grislo

We can bribe people, right?

Like, I'll pay someone to be all over the thread on page 99 to ensure that any late addition of a Sonic game is replaced with a fun platformer. Let's say Plok!, or Superfrog.

discrider

UnbrokenEva wrote: »

Remove: Descent (come on, not even Freespace?)
Add: Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

(I couldn't remember what Freespace was called. Thanks!)

Kelor

WeedLordVegeta wrote: »

I would rather World or Tri be on this list from Rise but I'm not making more cuts yet

I can get behind World - Iceborne.

UnbrokenEva wrote: »

(come on, not even Freespace?)

I was going to say exactly this but Freelancer.

WeedLordVegeta

Grislo wrote: »

We can bribe people, right?

Like, I'll pay someone to be all over the thread on page 99 to ensure that any late addition of a Sonic game is replaced with a fun platformer. Let's say Plok!, or Superfrog.

Spark the electric jester

MegaMan001

@Kelor grab the "XBox Accessories" app from the cursed Microsoft Marketplace thing on your PC and that ought to fix your controller problems. At least it did for me and Yakuza Zero steam problems.

Now that we have Star Wars Jedi Academy in here /bongrip.

Daypigeon

Kaputa wrote: »

Daypigeon , I request that you explain your shocking decision to replace ZoE2 with the GBA SRPG spinoff.

sure thing @Kaputa

fundamentally, zone of the enders is a series that has two parts: the fast-paced, smooth yet extraordinarily chaotic feel of mecha combat, and the big ol' drama of space opera (borrowing heavily from mecha anime series in particular). These are the essential pieces, right?

The "mainline" entries largely are memorable for the former, and because of the way they're structured (plus what surely was a limited budget) they sort of have to be. They're games you can roll through in an afternoon. This isn't bad, but it means the second element, the big dramatics, wind up heavily compressed and, i would argue, suffer greatly as a result

even just mechanically, a tactics rpg has more time to breathe, and Fist of Mars/Testament 2173 certainly understands this (the game is literally segmented into "episodes," for example). It's a better fit that means the game has to borrow less shorthand from existing stories, and instead can establish more of an identity of its own beyond "the cockpit is a weiner". (Though there is still plenty of borrowing). The chaotic action is toned down as a result but I would argue the heart of it is still there - especially in late game the real-time shooting and dodging segments are lengthy enough that mistakes will happen and a kind of frenzied exhaustion mounts for the player as the members of your crew who don't have the big fancy orbital frames start getting picked off.

Ultimately I think this is a more satisfying unification of gameplay, narrative, aesthetic and feel. The mainline ZoE games just don't quite get to the feeling of playing through a big sad (branching!) mecha anime about depressed terrorists on mars, but Fist of Mars does, and-

Grislo wrote: »

Removed: Zone of the Enders: Fist of Mars

wow okay fuck you

UnbrokenEva

MegaMan001 wrote: »

@Kelor grab the "XBox Accessories" app from the cursed Microsoft Marketplace thing on your PC and that ought to fix your controller problems. At least it did for me and Yakuza Zero steam problems.

Now that we have Star Wars Jedi Academy in here /bongrip.

I didn’t notice that a hurricane took out power at my house until the battery on my laptop died because was so into Jedi Academy

Grislo

WeedLordVegeta wrote: »

Grislo wrote: »

We can bribe people, right?

Like, I'll pay someone to be all over the thread on page 99 to ensure that any late addition of a Sonic game is replaced with a fun platformer. Let's say Plok!, or Superfrog.

Spark the electric jester

I'll ignore that it's a game, and assume it's an euphemism for '"sure, start some shit".

PaperLuigi44

Driver: San Francisco is much more than a gimmick, the ability to shift into other cars on the fly is a fantastic mechanic that turns the open-world car game on its head. Shift into incoming traffic to take out the competition, jackknife a longer vehicle to block them, it's a whole new dimension.

The story is goofy in a fun way too, blending Quantum Leap with Life on Mars (the show) with quests that range from helping some dunderheads who keep getting involved in street racing to Leaping across the city to disarm bombs under trucks to snagging whatever car you can as a weapon in a tower defence mission (you're in a coma so it's ok). And because you're in a coma your mental fortitude is tied to upgrades. So you can drive a firetruck and nitro boost it off a car ramp truck with the power of your mind.

MegaMan001

UnbrokenEva wrote: »

MegaMan001 wrote: »

@Kelor grab the "XBox Accessories" app from the cursed Microsoft Marketplace thing on your PC and that ought to fix your controller problems. At least it did for me and Yakuza Zero steam problems.

Now that we have Star Wars Jedi Academy in here /bongrip.

I didn’t notice that a hurricane took out power at my house until the battery on my laptop died because was so into Jedi Academy

Jedi Academy filled the online community game that TF2, Counterstrike, or whatever original shooters did for other people. Just the number of mods and modes and even the game was pretty good! I think one of the only Star Wars games I did both light and dark side.

Using Force Choke to grab an enemy then flixki in f your wrist in a direction and having them ragdoll over all of those steep Star Wars railings was fucking great.

Crippl3

Remove: Xenoblade Chronicles X
Add: Metroid Prime (If we can have more than one Final Fantasy, we can have more than one Metroid)
(Also, specifying that CoH is the final version when the game was shutdown)

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes (Issue 23)
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Dead Cells
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Metroid Prime
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)

Elderlycrawfish

Remove: Dead Cells
Add: Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
-- Metroid Prime
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Terraria
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)[/quote]

Sorry Dead Cells fans, but if anyone could appreciate starting over it's y'all.

Crippl3

Hm, actually...would people be opposed to me putting the final unreleased City of Heroes update, Issue 24 on there instead of the final release (Issue 23) or the launch version of the game (Issue 0)?
It was never fully finished or released, but it was available to play on the public test server, and the near-final version from the PTS is what the current private servers are built off of. It was extremely close to being released when the game was ordered to shut down.

Matev

Remove: Terraria, as I feel like there are several other games on the list that cover it's general style and aesthetics as I understand them. If someone wants to make the case for it, go ahead.
Add: Yakuza 0, cause it's a game that drips with style and does a fantastic job of conveying a very specific time and culture that even goobers like me can appreciate.

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- City of Heroes
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
-- Metroid Prime
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Yakuza 0

Grislo

PaperLuigi44 wrote: »

Driver: San Francisco is much more than a gimmick, the ability to shift into other cars on the fly is a fantastic mechanic that turns the open-world car game on its head. Shift into incoming traffic to take out the competition, jackknife a longer vehicle to block them, it's a whole new dimension.

The story is goofy in a fun way too, blending Quantum Leap with Life on Mars (the show) with quests that range from helping some dunderheads who keep getting involved in street racing to Leaping across the city to disarm bombs under trucks to snagging whatever car you can as a weapon in a tower defence mission (you're in a coma so it's ok). And because you're in a coma your mental fortitude is tied to upgrades. So you can drive a firetruck and nitro boost it off a car ramp truck with the power of your mind.

Given the amount/lack of driving games on the list, I can't see Driver being the one to survive regardless. There's some good shit you could add.

Kelor

Cut: City of Heroes
Add: Life Is Strange

I came to Life Is Strange I think four years after it had been completed.

I was pleasantly surprised and delighted that I ended up playing it. The friendship is touching, it has a quality that is at times meandering and others absolutely breakneak as you are hammering on the button to find out what is happening next. The soundtrack adds to this mixture wonderfully.

I haven't moved onto any of the other games in the series, but I'm still happy to just percolate in the first couple of episodes and the mood they generate doing dumb kid things.

ElderlyCrawfish wrote:

Sorry Dead Cells fans, but if anyone could appreciate starting over it's y'all.

I'm unsurprised that someone who would put Metal Gear on a list like this would cut a game that eschews story for quality of gameplay. :P

-- 999
-- Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
-- Bomberman (94)
-- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
-- Cave Story
-- Celeste
-- Cities: Skylines
-- Chrono Trigger (DS)
-- Dark Souls 2
-- Deus Ex
-- Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction
-- Disco Elysium
-- Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker
-- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
-- Guild Wars: Factions
-- Hitman 3
-- Hollow Knight
-- Katamari Damacy
-- Legend of Mana
-- Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past
-- Life Is Strange
-- Mario Kart: Double Dash
-- Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
-- Metroid Prime
-- Monster Hunter Rise
-- Outer Wilds
-- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
-- Pathologic 2
-- Persona 4
-- Pirates! Gold
-- Quake
-- Radiant Silvergun
-- Resident Evil 2 (2019)
-- Rock Band
-- Shadow of the Colossus
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
-- Sims 3 (PC)
-- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles)
-- Spelunky
-- Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
-- Super Metroid
-- Super Smash Bros. Melee
-- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
-- Team Fortress 2
-- Tetris (Game Boy)
-- Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
-- Undertale
-- Wasteland (1988)
-- XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)
-- Yakuza 0

PaperLuigi44

I'm all about the dark horse victories.

jungleroomx

If I was to add a driving game, it would be very difficult to pick anything but Burnout 3

RT800

This is the list of 50 best games of all time, right?

What is happening in here!?

jungleroomx

RT800 wrote: »

This is the list of 50 best games of all time, right?

What is happening in here!?

Pick your games and remove something else.