In my younger days I was all about criticizing peoples food choices as part of some stupid asshole why do you care phase. But now outside of needing to know should I be like making you food, you do you man, if you want to tell me you went vegan? Awesome with my health I'm sure I'll probably end up having to do it at some point anyway.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
My lovely wife this morning trying to encourage me to try streaming "See darling even old people get into twitch!" I just turned 40 this week god damn it let me adjust to being old!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Veganism as a moral/political stance I have legit reasons to disagree with, veganism as a culinary preference I'm okay with as long as they remember to take the supplemental vitamins that aren't available in a purely plant-based diet.
Of course, any enemy of the factory farm/monoculture complex is welcome to sit at my table.
My lovely wife this morning trying to encourage me to try streaming "See darling even old people get into twitch!" I just turned 40 this week god damn it let me adjust to being old!
40 isn't old! It's middle-aged! You now have the historical right to put on your colorful tunic and work less than 40 hours a week! Wait, that last part's disputed, nvm
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Children's rights are human rights.
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
My petty Vegan/Vegetarian complaint is that a lot of vegan/vegetarian places are more expensive than non-vegan/vegetarian places.
Which irks me because:
1. It hurts adoption, some folks are already reluctant to give up their meat; and then the meal costs more?
2. One of the whole appeals or vegan/vegetarian food to me is that it is more energy efficient , their is less waste, it should be cheaper to make.
((I understand hyper processed vegan fake meat foods being expensive but, I also avoid those for the same reason I tend to stay away from hyper processed anything. Thinking more just vegan/vegetarian restaurants where just a basic salad is crazy pricy))
My counter argument to veganism would just be that I'm not particularly well off and depressed and sometimes a burger or something is the only thing that keeps me going as the only small joy I'm allowed to have in my life
If we lived in a perfect world where I didn't feel the way I do all the time and had the support and accomodations to contribute meaningfully to society and be rewarded with physical and emotional security then I might be a vegan too but until that happens I'm going to have to eat some cows and chickens.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
A lot of current arguments for veganism are predicated on our existing food production systems and just take them as a given, which leads to some assumptions about carbon production with farming and meat production that absolutely aren't givens.
A lot of much smarter people than me have written about this and of course I can't find any of that right now :rotate: the biggest upshot is that there are completely carbon neutral methods of livestock farming that are already being put into practice in multiple areas of the world, so it's fundamentally incorrect to start with the assumption that all meat farming carries with it emission issues.
That said, we massively overproduce and overeat meat and that is itself part of the problem.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Separately, I am personally unswayed by the ethical arguments, but that's just a choice for everyone to make for themselves.
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
What about the cow farts
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
You mean the problem we largely cause by feeding them cheap, rich food that also results in more methane production?
That's part of the carbon neutral beef production practice is stopping doing that.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
You can cancel out a bunch of the cow farts if you feed them the right kind of seaweed, and efforts are underway to ramp up sustainable production of said seaweed that will be a reasonably affordable additive to cow feed when combined with carbon-credit-style incentives.
Once again, the thing that will inevitably doom us is political will. I don't think this is particularly good news, but there you have it.
A lot of current arguments for veganism are predicated on our existing food production systems and just take them as a given, which leads to some assumptions about carbon production with farming and meat production that absolutely aren't givens.
A lot of much smarter people than me have written about this and of course I can't find any of that right now :rotate: the biggest upshot is that there are completely carbon neutral methods of livestock farming that are already being put into practice in multiple areas of the world, so it's fundamentally incorrect to start with the assumption that all meat farming carries with it emission issues.
That said, we massively overproduce and overeat meat and that is itself part of the problem.
I’d be interested in said studies if you can find them.
Personally I’ve gone mostly with the route of working more fruits and veggies in, and meat out. Usually it’s meat and fish on the weekends for me, and no or minimal meat during the week as my balance. Combining that with carbon neutral live stock farming sounds nice.
I am guessing the carbon neutral stuff probably takes more time/space/money, so, overall meat production would need to go down, current approaches like force feeding cows corn is to make meat fast for the huge demand.
But yeah, if you do find those studies please share them as it’s always nice to have more info.
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#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
Speaking of gas prices, I watched this video the other day and it made a massive amount of sense to me
TLDR: Gas prices are high (and they're going to stay high) because the writing is on the wall for the death of the oil and gas industry and instead of taking profits and reinvesting in production like they always have, they're taking profits and just keeping them, because reinvesting doesn't make sense anymore. Renewables are already cheaper to produce and electrification is well on its way. This video convinced me to start taking the bus to work instead of driving and also convinced me that I will never buy an internal combustion car again.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
TLDR: Gas prices are high (and they're going to stay high) because the writing is on the wall for the death of the oil and gas industry and instead of taking profits and reinvesting in production like they always have, they're taking profits and just keeping them, because reinvesting doesn't make sense anymore. Renewables are already cheaper to produce and electrification is well on its way. This video convinced me to start taking the bus to work instead of driving and also convinced me that I will never buy an internal combustion car again.
Yeah, our car probably has a lot of life left but the next future car is 100% an EV.
This goes into more detail and specifically breaks down to Livestock & Manture at 5.8%, Road Transport at 11.9%. We'd have to from that take as a given that road transport carbon comes from >50% trucks, which I would be uncomfortable assuming given the ratio of cars:trucks on the road (a quick google suggests there are ~2 million semi trucks registered in the US, compared to 284 million cars).
I do not see EVs being widely adopted, even with price decreases, until there's reliable ways to charge it for people who rent apartments. I certainly don't have a plug for one.
I do not see EVs being widely adopted, even with price decreases, until there's reliable ways to charge it for people who rent apartments. I certainly don't have a plug for one.
Yeah, it was cool to see a lot of EV chargers just on the street outside of apartments in Amsterdam, but even that wasn’t enough for everyone on the block to have an EV.
This goes into more detail and specifically breaks down to Livestock & Manture at 5.8%, Road Transport at 11.9%. We'd have to from that take as a given that road transport carbon comes from >50% trucks, which I would be uncomfortable assuming given the ratio of cars:trucks on the road (a quick google suggests there are ~2 million semi trucks registered in the US, compared to 284 million cars).
Yeah, and only a subset of livestock and manure would be cows specifically. And that also estimates passenger vehicles being 60% of road transport.
So yeah, seems rather unlikely that cows are a bigger problem than cars.
I eat meat and when I die, as is the natural order of things, I expect to be eaten. I don't much care by what. Tiger. Pack of coyotes. Some crabs. Armie Hammer.
I eat meat and when I die, as is the natural order of things, I expect to be eaten. I don't much care by what. Tiger. Pack of coyotes. Some crabs. Armie Hammer.
So long as I too, become protein as God intended.
Sky burials are pretty rad, imo.
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#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
I do not see EVs being widely adopted, even with price decreases, until there's reliable ways to charge it for people who rent apartments. I certainly don't have a plug for one.
Most major cities in north America require new apartment buildings to have charging infrastructure in the parking lots, but you're right, it is definitely a hurdle.
But still it depends on what your definition of "widely adopted" is, because percentage of the new vehicle market for EVs went from 4% to 8.5%, just in the last year.
I eat meat and when I die, as is the natural order of things, I expect to be eaten. I don't much care by what. Tiger. Pack of coyotes. Some crabs. Armie Hammer.
So long as I too, become protein as God intended.
Sky burials are pretty rad, imo.
Again, don't much care what eats me. If the sky eats me then that's fine.
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pleasepaypreacher.net
We should go to the vegan place down the street this week.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I feel like that’s a big deal for some reason.
Like I snuck in just under the wire or something.
Of course, any enemy of the factory farm/monoculture complex is welcome to sit at my table.
40 isn't old! It's middle-aged! You now have the historical right to put on your colorful tunic and work less than 40 hours a week! Wait, that last part's disputed, nvm
Smells like teen spinach?
My counter-argument usually consists of just not thinking about it.
Which irks me because:
1. It hurts adoption, some folks are already reluctant to give up their meat; and then the meal costs more?
2. One of the whole appeals or vegan/vegetarian food to me is that it is more energy efficient , their is less waste, it should be cheaper to make.
((I understand hyper processed vegan fake meat foods being expensive but, I also avoid those for the same reason I tend to stay away from hyper processed anything. Thinking more just vegan/vegetarian restaurants where just a basic salad is crazy pricy))
If we lived in a perfect world where I didn't feel the way I do all the time and had the support and accomodations to contribute meaningfully to society and be rewarded with physical and emotional security then I might be a vegan too but until that happens I'm going to have to eat some cows and chickens.
You're missing out on spinster Island though.
A lot of much smarter people than me have written about this and of course I can't find any of that right now :rotate: the biggest upshot is that there are completely carbon neutral methods of livestock farming that are already being put into practice in multiple areas of the world, so it's fundamentally incorrect to start with the assumption that all meat farming carries with it emission issues.
That said, we massively overproduce and overeat meat and that is itself part of the problem.
That's part of the carbon neutral beef production practice is stopping doing that.
Once again, the thing that will inevitably doom us is political will. I don't think this is particularly good news, but there you have it.
I’d be interested in said studies if you can find them.
Personally I’ve gone mostly with the route of working more fruits and veggies in, and meat out. Usually it’s meat and fish on the weekends for me, and no or minimal meat during the week as my balance. Combining that with carbon neutral live stock farming sounds nice.
I am guessing the carbon neutral stuff probably takes more time/space/money, so, overall meat production would need to go down, current approaches like force feeding cows corn is to make meat fast for the huge demand.
But yeah, if you do find those studies please share them as it’s always nice to have more info.
TLDR: Gas prices are high (and they're going to stay high) because the writing is on the wall for the death of the oil and gas industry and instead of taking profits and reinvesting in production like they always have, they're taking profits and just keeping them, because reinvesting doesn't make sense anymore. Renewables are already cheaper to produce and electrification is well on its way. This video convinced me to start taking the bus to work instead of driving and also convinced me that I will never buy an internal combustion car again.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
My car isn't paid off for another two years
Some dude at rehab got really upset when I offhandedly mentioned that cows were a bigger problem for the environment than cars.
Yeah, people usually get upset when you tell them stuff that isn't true.
https://epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
That's not true, though.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
Fossil fuels are the single biggest issue.
Yeah, our car probably has a lot of life left but the next future car is 100% an EV.
At a glance that shows transport vs agriculture (and which is interesting because agriculture includes transport).
Also in the original statement it wasn’t about all of fossil fuels, it was about cows vs cars specifically.
A cursory Google produced this: https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/claim-about-climate-impacts-of-cows-vs-cars-needs-a-little-explanation-financial-times/ which shows cow burps as more pronounced than cars specifically short term, but cars overtake in the long term. Though I have no idea of the rigor behind this website and this claim.
Something they focuses specifically on cows vs cars with established rigor would be interesting to read.
I get your point, but I dispute your claim. Many people love being told wonderful lies
https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
This goes into more detail and specifically breaks down to Livestock & Manture at 5.8%, Road Transport at 11.9%. We'd have to from that take as a given that road transport carbon comes from >50% trucks, which I would be uncomfortable assuming given the ratio of cars:trucks on the road (a quick google suggests there are ~2 million semi trucks registered in the US, compared to 284 million cars).
Yeah, it was cool to see a lot of EV chargers just on the street outside of apartments in Amsterdam, but even that wasn’t enough for everyone on the block to have an EV.
Yeah, and only a subset of livestock and manure would be cows specifically. And that also estimates passenger vehicles being 60% of road transport.
So yeah, seems rather unlikely that cows are a bigger problem than cars.
So long as I too, become protein as God intended.
Sky burials are pretty rad, imo.
Most major cities in north America require new apartment buildings to have charging infrastructure in the parking lots, but you're right, it is definitely a hurdle.
But still it depends on what your definition of "widely adopted" is, because percentage of the new vehicle market for EVs went from 4% to 8.5%, just in the last year.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
Again, don't much care what eats me. If the sky eats me then that's fine.
it is because of them that I can't take skeletons seriously in any medium. that and their laugh in Everquest
*xylophone noises and cackling*