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Hell Let Loose and other [Military shooter]s that aren't Battlefield or CoD

-Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered User regular
edited February 2022 in Games and Technology
It looks like there's a few people here who play non-Battlefield military shooters, but not a whole lot of us for individual threads on each game outside of Battlefield or CoD. Here's some to check out:

Hell Let Loose

World War 2. Big maps, 50vs50 games trying to take the majority of points on a map, or get through them successively.

Squad

Modern combat. Huge maps, 50vs50 games... trying to take points on the map.

Insurgency Sandstorm

Modern combat. Smaller 14vs14player matches with limited waves per team... trying to take points on the map. There's a theme going here. Also 8 players vs AI game modes. Somewhat faster paced than the above two, almost more of a more hardcore Counter Strike.

Holdfast: Nations at War
Napoleonic combat, 150 players. Variety of game modes.

Rising Storm 2
Vietnam, 64 players. Be warned that the player base can be a little, how to say, racist at times sadly.

Post Scriptum. Sadly I hear HLL is the wayk to go if you want a WW2 game. I say sadly cause how many WW2 games cover the Fall of France?!

-Loki- on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Personally, I've been playing the ever loving shit out of Hell Let Loose and occasionally dip in for quick rounds of Insurgency. I have Squad installed, but I haven't put in the effort yet to learn it.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Personally, I've been playing the ever loving shit out of Hell Let Loose and occasionally dip in for quick rounds of Insurgency. I have Squad installed, but I haven't put in the effort yet to learn it.

    What system do you play it on?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Personally, I've been playing the ever loving shit out of Hell Let Loose and occasionally dip in for quick rounds of Insurgency. I have Squad installed, but I haven't put in the effort yet to learn it.

    What system do you play it on?

    All on PC.

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    MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Thanks for making the thread!

    Hell Let Loose is my new favorite mp shooter. The matches can take a while, so be prepared to give 1 round a good hour or so. But the payoff when you squeeze out a win after a seesaw battle is so satisfying. Or lose, if it's well fought. The battles feel epic and the sound through my headphones really helps the atmosphere.

    Mulletude on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    It's funny looking at the Hell Let Loose gameplay trailer and seeing how the effects have changed - that was from 2019.

    That bombing run at 1:17 was pretty tame.

    It's pretty brutal now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Ht57CWRg8

    -Loki- on
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I would recommend:

    Holdfast: Nations at War
    Napoleonic combat, 150 players. Variety of game modes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcx4IL7XBRE

    Rising Storm 2
    Vietnam, 64 players. Be warned that the player base can be a little, how to say, racist at times sadly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKWZm_eeF7w

    I really wish I could recommend:
    Beyond the Wire, which is like HLL or Squad but in WW1. Sadly, the player count seems to be in the double digits.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_sLbUJkuo

    Notable:
    Post Scriptum. Sadly I hear HLL is the wayk to go if you want a WW2 game. I say sadly cause how many WW2 games cover the Fall of France?!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2v03mizxU4

    One to keep an eye on:
    '83, which is a Cold War gone hot game. Don't have much info on it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u9oyFkXca4

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Added those, except Hold the Lin e(the game seems like it's pretty much dead, though the concept and trailer looked great) and 83 because it's not out yet. But wow, I'm liking the look of 83.

    -Loki- on
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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    In HLL as a new player you will die a lot in the beginning. A lot, a lot and very suddenly and very often.

    Once things click though, holy shit.

    Communication is important but as a random grunt it isn't that important to you. Just follow your squad leader and of course different servers have different experiences. Plenty are tagged as Newbie Friendly.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Here's some gameplay tips for getting started to help you not die so often in HLL while you learn it.

    1. Crouch run. Keep your head down. Your head is a melon and just as soft, anything that hits it is bad news.

    2. Run along walls, but be careful. Running along a wall means there's a while 180 dgerees you don't need to worry about. However, it silhouettes you against it, so you need to be extra careful about the side that can see you.

    3. When looking at spawn points, first look for any close to the action (the action being the objective that currently has a black circle around it). This cuts down on walking. Then, eliminate any that have a red exclamation mark - this means enemies are within 100m, so it's probably not safe.

    4. This isn't CoD, or new Battlefield. One rifle hit will very likely kill you. One submachine gun/pistol round will put you into bleeding state. So use cover, use leaning to peek around corners, and crouch behind low walls. If you want to kill someone, you absolutely have to aim down your sights. You can also hold your breath for a short time for a small zoom in and removing gun sway.

    5. You can sprint forever, but it doesn't mean you should. When you are walking, you can fire without aiming. It's not accurate, but with a self loading gun a full magazine should do the trick, so it's goot in desperate situations where you don't have time to aim. When sprinting, the only ways to stop are pressing Sprint again, stopping entirely, or aiming. So quick hip firing doesn't work while sprinting.

    6. Listen to your squad mates. If they're calling out an MG in a certain direction, it's probably a good idea to not go that way.

    7. Tanks. They're a thing in this game. Throwing grenades and firing your rifle at it will do nothing. Firing an AT rocket at it at the front will likely do nothing - you need to get around the sides or preferably the back. If you see a tank, and it's looking at you, just turn around and run away and be thankful they haven't already turned you into mush.

    8. This isn't about survivability, but in general, don't take vehicles unless you're driving a troop transport from the HQ to the line. Support trucks provide resources. Half Tracks are mobile spawn points. They all cost the commander resources to spawn which are also used for bombing and strafing runs, airheads, tanks, etc. So if you see a vehicle sitting there at HQ, it's likely a squad leader requested it and is on his way to get it, so don't jsut randomly take vehicles like you do in Battlefield.

    -Loki- on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    I'd like to point out for the OP that HLL so far seems mechanically super accessible, it's just the tactics/strategy side that'll get your shit rocked. The transition from Battlefield to HLL mechanically is pretty gentle. Insurgency even more so since it's just a straight shooter. Grab gun, shoot mans, cap points, win match. If you ever played shit like Firearms back in the day you'll hit your rhythm super quick in Insurgency.

    Squad is a bit more involved with having to worry about loading up logi trucks, getting them to places so things can be built, and all that nonsense so it's more crunchy and thus has a higher learning curve. Community can be kinda stuffy too since it's a mix of actual vets and wanna be hoorah ding dongs.

    I kinda wanna try Holdfast just cause I remember the Battlegrounds HL1 mod and if those communities are anything alike Holdfast is gonna be a fucking meme fest in proxy chat.

    Oh, and don't forget World War 3 for the OP!

    https://youtu.be/r0yvnL7Thrs

    It's what you'd get if Battlefield and COD had a baby with Rainbow Six Vegas as the godparent. It's got some mild jank (mostly due to the audio having some glitches) but it's honestly super fucking fun. Mixing COD streak points that persist through death with Battlefield gameplay and that R6ish quality tactical movement (Leaning! Going prone and being able to flip onto your back!) means even if you're doing kinda shit, you'll still eventually get to hop in a tank without having to camp a spawn point for one. It's an awesome "you got your peanut butter in my chocolate" idea. My only complaint with it is it's matchmaking instead of server browser based. I think it's going F2P in a couple months too so we'll have to see how that pans out. Still though, it's only 15 bucks. Hard to argue with that.

    TOGSolid on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Yeah that’s why I mentioned Insurgency feels like a more hardcore Counter Strike. Small maps, small teams, go shoot each other and try to cap points.

    If you want to write up some better game descriptions, feel free and PM them to me and I’ll edit them in.

    -Loki- on
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I played Holdfast tonight, chat was a mix of actual funny dudes and people blasting music. Luckily you can individually mute people.

    Especially fun when we had an officer dedicated to actually making sure we group up and charge in mass on fortress maps in order to get enough men on the point, or when enemy holdouts in a fort where yelling at us.

    It was cool to see how people would naturally group up, cause if the enemy rush you en mass and you're alone you will die. Same with cavalry, they can cut down lone solider with ease. You know, just like it would of been in reality.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    I'll see what I can do later! Tbh I love making thread OPs and get all fancy with them, it's just that I just started chugging whisky and downloading Musket Simulator 2022 so I'm about to be very drunk in Holdfast, lol.

    If someone else wants to be very drunk in Holdfast with me plz ping me on the PA Discord. https://discord.gg/2P6SKZcCmv

    TOGSolid on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    And yeah World War 3 was brought up but since it’s not out yet I’ll keep it out of the OP.

    It does look incredibly good though.

    -Loki- on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Oof, there's only two hopping servers for Holdfast. One is full and the other is at 50%.

    I really wanna do silly musket shit but this game might turn into a refund real quick if it's this dead.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I wouldn't say it's dead, in fact it seems the peak player count was 600. Last month was 400 some.

    But I'm kinda used to playing games here the player count is only high enough to maintain a few servers.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Yeah that’s putting me off as well. Like HLL gets 4-5k per night and in Australia that manages to get 2-3 full servers reliably.

    Something in the hundreds might not even get one full Australian server.

    -Loki- on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    I wouldn't say it's dead, in fact it seems the peak player count was 600. Last month was 400 some.

    But I'm kinda used to playing games here the player count is only high enough to maintain a few servers.

    Yeah, but with stuff like that I only generally play it if I have other people going in on it with me. Otherwise it's kinda of a meh experience.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Just played a round on Omaha beach that was a perfect example of why you need to communicate in HLL.

    Trying to take WIN7, we just couldn’t crack the bunker, because half the team decided to try to flank to the south which is protected by barbed wire.

    After a while, that half of the team just gave up and started milling around in the fields not knowing what to do, until we spammed text chat to get them back to the objective.

    Then we couldn’t take Church Road because the commander had no resources and needed nodes to be built. But he didn’t actually tell any squad leaders and by the last 5 minutes we had no garrisons and were relying entirely on squad leaders putting down OPs.

    Then with two minutes left he ragequit.

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    MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    Just a heads up but HLL doesn't have all the features on console yet that the PC side has.

    Road map from devs says eastern front and British forces this year though.

    And flame throwers :bigfrown:

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Post Scriptum is seeing a little bit of a resurgence so while it isn't near the player count of HLL I usually don't have a problem getting into a full server. But longevity wise if you're looking to pick one of the two up I'd have to say HLL.

    Beyond the Wire was somehow dead as soon as it launched which is a bummer.

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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Being DOA is the biggest risk of an indie multiplayer shooter. Gone are the days of hopping on a random Halflife mod and expecting buckets of servers.

    I picked up HLL and played a round on Foy last night as Germans. Took a few minutes of squad hopping to find one with anyone on mic, but once I did it was pretty fun. We weren't doing anything galaxy brain, but at least we were trying to stick together and call out targets and laugh when getting wiped out by arty. We had some good band of brothers moments of bumbling into american squads at point blank and both sides fumbling for guns and cover.
    I leveled up to rank 9 in one game (got rifleman to rank 2), I don't know if that's a lot or this game just hands out XP. I didn't feel like I was contributing that much, but I got a good handful of kills and captures. I have some hours in squad and post scriptum so the gameplay felt pretty familiar.

    I have a few random questions about the game structure (which I'm sure I could look up with some guides, but asking here is more fun):
    -There doesn't seem to be a ticket or reinforcement system? Is the victor just decided on who owns the most zones when the timer runs out?
    -I don't really understand the resource/nodes/supply mechanics (I'm not ever going to play commander, so I don't really have to). I get that the commander uses munitions to call in arty and airstrikes and whatever airheads(?) are, but I'm not sure what manpower or fuel does (spawns vehicles?) or how these resources are generated. I've seen supply trucks driving around, but not sure what they do or where they're going.
    -What are airheads?
    -Is there a specific reason for playing as a rifleman? The squad classes seem pretty generous and not dynamic to the size of the squad. There's more than enough classes to not have any riflemen at all, and pretty much all the support classes come with rifles anyway, plus whatever specialized gadgets they have.

    McGibs on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Mulletude wrote: »
    And flame throwers :bigfrown:
    https://youtu.be/hqVXi_UVkTs

    I can't fucking wait

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    McGibs wrote: »
    I have a few random questions about the game structure (which I'm sure I could look up with some guides, but asking here is more fun):
    -There doesn't seem to be a ticket or reinforcement system? Is the victor just decided on who owns the most zones when the timer runs out?
    -I don't really understand the resource/nodes/supply mechanics (I'm not ever going to play commander, so I don't really have to). I get that the commander uses munitions to call in arty and airstrikes and whatever airheads(?) are, but I'm not sure what manpower or fuel does (spawns vehicles?) or how these resources are generated. I've seen supply trucks driving around, but not sure what they do or where they're going.
    -What are airheads?
    -Is there a specific reason for playing as a rifleman? The squad classes seem pretty generous and not dynamic to the size of the squad. There's more than enough classes to not have any riflemen at all, and pretty much all the support classes come with rifles anyway, plus whatever specialized gadgets they have.

    No ticket system. There's 2 game modes, Offensive and Warfare. Offensive you attack/defende each objective insuccession, and have half an hour. The timer resets whe the attacking team takes it, and you move on to the next one. Warfare is sort of the same, but the atttacking team has to defend their last objective as well as attack the next so the defender can push back. This one has an hour and a half time limit, and the winner either holds at least 3 out of the 5 points at the end or manages to get all points, which ends the game early.

    Nodes generate 10 of their specific resource a minute for the comander to use. These are purely commander resources - munitions, manpower, fuel. Supplies can be called in by the commander as an airdrop, driven to a location with a supply truck, or dropped by a Support squad member and are used by engineers and squad leaders to build things - garrisons, fortifications, AT guns, etc.

    Airheads are a commander called spawn point that can be dropped anywhere, usually used to drop pretty far back for rear attacks or flanking. Very situational, usually used to break a deadlocked objective by dropping it in an advantageous position and getting 2-3 squads to redeploy on it for an unexpected attack direction. They don't last very long, even if the enemy doesn't destroy it.

    Rifleman has problems, yeah. They drop basic ammo, which is their thing, but as you noticed, some classes have plenty. Some classes don't though and really need their ammo boxes - like the Assault class for the US's Thompson only gets 4 magazines and those go quick, and the medic only gets 2 for their M1. Also MG's - they chew through ammo and if you go drop an ammo box near one and tell them you'll usually get a relieved 'thank you' back.

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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    XP in HLL is weird. The actual levels are pretty easy to attain, but class levels that unlock cosmetic uniforms go soooo slow.

    I kind of get it, a lot of the uniforms are meant to signify veteran players but I've got 200 ish hours in the game and I've almost got my most used class (mg) to level 7.

    That said, an easy way to gain experience (unless theyve changed it since and I didnt hear about it) is to deploy as an engineer, build nodes and then come back as whatever you want when that's done. The nodes generate continuous xp for the player even after you've swapped to a different class, so if you want to eek out a little more xp for your AT class to get that sweet, sweet Russian canvas cape (level fuckin 8) you can build a bunch of resource nodes and then go use your AT class. It's kind of a win/win. Commander gets nodes you get XP.

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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Oh also you can "commend" players on your team or squad at the end of round scoreboard. There's a little circle with a 0 in it that you can click on to give them a commendation if they did a good job in their role and I think it gives an extra 10% xp boost.

    Most players use it to help out lower levels. Once you hit level 100 it doesn't matter anymore.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Mulletude wrote: »
    Just a heads up but HLL doesn't have all the features on console yet that the PC side has.

    The devs January update on Steam said that with the extra resources provided now that they're owned by Team17, their first priority is getting the console release to parity with the PC release.

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    MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    XP in HLL is weird. The actual levels are pretty easy to attain, but class levels that unlock cosmetic uniforms go soooo slow.

    I kind of get it, a lot of the uniforms are meant to signify veteran players but I've got 200 ish hours in the game and I've almost got my most used class (mg) to level 7.

    That said, an easy way to gain experience (unless theyve changed it since and I didnt hear about it) is to deploy as an engineer, build nodes and then come back as whatever you want when that's done. The nodes generate continuous xp for the player even after you've swapped to a different class, so if you want to eek out a little more xp for your AT class to get that sweet, sweet Russian canvas cape (level fuckin 8) you can build a bunch of resource nodes and then go use your AT class. It's kind of a win/win. Commander gets nodes you get XP.

    Can you build the nodes anywhere or are there specific spots for them?

    I may need to try this out next time I play.

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    You can build them anywhere as long as it's friendly territory, IIRC. You also need supplies, so someone needs to be Support to drop those for you, which is the reason not everyone rushes to do this.

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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Yeah they've reworked the node/supply meta a bit so I'm not 100% but I think it varies depending on if you're playing offensive or warfare. Offensive you have to capture the first point for the nodes to count, with warfare I think it's anywhere within friendly territory, typically the edge of the map in a secluded spot so any sneaky recons don't find and dismantle them.

    Ideally you'd work with a support but it's often more economical to tell your squad lead where you're going and have him request supplies in that area from the commander. They're usually more than happy to do that.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Man, World War 3 is consistently just so damn fun. They've really nailed the flow of that game and even if players can just buy a tank outta thin air, it's not an I win button cause Anti-Armor players are running around harvesting SMG kills and just looking for any excuse to shoot rockets at something until they run out of ammo packs. Driving a tank actually takes some team support so you don't get fucked. Airstrikes take some finesse to use too.

    Meanwhile the infantry combat is just super well tuned. The TTK is perfect, customizing a gun to do weird things as you level it up is fun, and even with starter gear you're still a pretty big threat so total newbies will still have a ball. Playing the objective is super incentivized since capping/decapping points gives you call in points to spend on whatever strike package you picked so even if you're not a great shot, you can still be dropping UAVs, airstrikes, and tanks with the best of em. I really hope this game doesn't die cause it really is the perfect place for Battlefield refugees.

    TOGSolid on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I really wish they'd put up some oceanic servers for WW3. I really want to give it a go, but the servers are all US or EU which means 250+ ping.

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    MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    Tried my hand as a tank crewman in HLL

    Got into a couple tanks with some nice guys who taught me what to do.

    We get moving and I put a 20mm into an anti tank soldier and they both just vanish. Sat there for a while traversing the turret before I realized I was alone. Lol, wat happen

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    The only time I tried tanking in HLL, I did not have a mic.

    This was not a good idea, but I was the gunner so I just had to listen for called targets.

    The spotter had also never tanked before, and was not reading text chat.

    The driver was the only one who had tanked, and was also not reading text chat.

    After the two of them managed to get us on a road, I managed to turn a few enemies into small bits, before we somehow managed to get the tank pointing straight up to the sky after hitting a small rock.

    We all bailed and went back to infantry squads.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    -Loki- wrote: »
    servers are all US or EU which means 250+ ping.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

    EDIT: Oh shit this game has BF3 tier sniping

    Hahahahahahhaahahhaha

    TOGSolid on
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    SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Yeah I've had WW3 place me in Euro servers more often than not, no idea why.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Ok, so the shotguns in WW3 are fucking orgasmic.

    You've gotta work for your kills cause getting into close range is hairy as shit but you can rely on that 12 gauge delivering thermonuclear levels of "get off my lawn" when you do get up on someone, and it's not point blank only either. You have some distance to play with with these things. Nothing "viking sniper" tier but enough that you're gonna sweep buildings like a champion.

    TOGSolid on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Hmmm. It's only $21au. Dare I give it a shot...

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Hmmm. It's only $21au. Dare I give it a shot...

    I wouldn't unless you have some godlike internet for playing on NA/EU servers. Not cause it's bad, but just cause you're gonna have a laggy time and I don't want you to get soured on this game

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Guess I could play a few rounds on HLL US servers to see if I can handle the lag.

    Bear in mind, I spent a good chunk of my life dealing with bad lag living in Australia, so it wouldn't be a new experience.

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