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The [Labor] Thread is entitled to everything it creates

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    The Biden Administration is failing in too many ways for me to celebrate a single success.

    HacksawMan in the MistsMatevThawmusMayabird
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I'd love to see more unionised white collar service industry workers in the UK

    Our manufacturing base is limited and a large amount of people work in relatively low to medium level office jobs, admin, functionary stuff. And that's fine but historically there's so little union representation in those areas

    The unions in the UK that remain have ended up being representative of a relatively specific group of people I.e public sector workers, blue collar service workers, certain privatised sectors like transport, and the last remnants of manufacturing. And that's good that they're unionised but increasingly people are working in jobs covered by none of them.

    White collar workers glacially morph from students into workforce, and as students, they get perks like insurance, housing, on-site health services, and protection from legal liability. In exchange, they work without really earning any money, so they can't do things like pay union dues or whatever. Then after years of working without engaging in union issues, they get positions with a level of seniority organized by how long they spent in education rather than how long they spent working at the same job - so paradoxically people in the highest levels of the hierarchy have the lowest experience with union related issues.

    Even the lower rungs of white collar jobs have experienced educational inflation, becoming experts in the science of their profession while ignoring or deferring the administrative aspect of their profession, to the point that being given the power to make these decisions can be seen as a punishment to people that love their jobs.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited May 9
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Kaputa on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Unionization seems to be finding fertile ground in the service sector. Which considering the growth of the service sector as part of the economy is really good news.

    At least from what I've read it feels like part of this is a generational shift is going on as a lot of younger people are much more open to the idea of labour organization.

    ElvenshaeFencingsaxGnome-InterruptusMoridin889Kayne Red RobeMartini_Philosophernever dieThawmusQuidLord_AsmodeusKaputadispatch.o
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Unionization seems to be finding fertile ground in the service sector. Which considering the growth of the service sector as part of the economy is really good news.

    At least from what I've read it feels like part of this is a generational shift is going on as a lot of younger people are much more open to the idea of labour organization.

    Also a lot of underemployed college grads organizing.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Unionization seems to be finding fertile ground in the service sector. Which considering the growth of the service sector as part of the economy is really good news.

    At least from what I've read it feels like part of this is a generational shift is going on as a lot of younger people are much more open to the idea of labour organization.

    Also a lot of underemployed college grads organizing.

    The only thing they have to lose is their chains

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Unionization seems to be finding fertile ground in the service sector. Which considering the growth of the service sector as part of the economy is really good news.

    At least from what I've read it feels like part of this is a generational shift is going on as a lot of younger people are much more open to the idea of labour organization.

    Also a lot of underemployed college grads organizing.

    The only thing they have to lose is their chains

    And 5-6 figures of student debt per person

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I'm glad the NLRB chose to intervene in favor of Starbucks workers specifically; I'm hella excited about this service industry revolt. This Vice article tells me that, as of two weeks ago, 25 of the 27 votes held had resulted in unionization, which is an astounding success rate. It also says that "More than 200 stores nationwide have filed for union elections with Starbucks Workers United, and new stores are filing most days of the week." 25 stores is small, but if they can maintain close to that rate of success in the hundreds of upcoming votes then that will be pretty major.

    I really hope this can be spread to other companies. If the workers of Starbucks can do it, why not McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, Subway etc.?

    Unionization seems to be finding fertile ground in the service sector. Which considering the growth of the service sector as part of the economy is really good news.

    At least from what I've read it feels like part of this is a generational shift is going on as a lot of younger people are much more open to the idea of labour organization.

    Also a lot of underemployed college grads organizing.
    A new breed of conservative politician was poised to jump on the backlash -- including Nixon, who’d called student protesters “bums” just before the shooting. But the king of the new resentment politics was Ronald Reagan, who’d won a shock victory as California governor in 1966 by railing against chaos on the Berkeley campus and the new hippie “who looks like Tarzan, walks like Jane and smells like Cheetah.” Reagan pushed (and was met with pushback) to end California’s once-cherished tradition of free public university tuition for residents, arguing that “taxpayers shouldn’t subsidize intellectual curiosity.”

    That movement gained steam in 1970, around the time of the Kent State massacre. That year, a Hoover Institution economist who advised both Nixon and Reagan named Roger Freeman said the quiet part out loud when he told the San Francisco Chronicle, “We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow to go through higher education.”

    https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/attytood/kent-state-anniversary-college-debt-student-loans-20220503.html

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 9
    Paladin wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I'd love to see more unionised white collar service industry workers in the UK

    Our manufacturing base is limited and a large amount of people work in relatively low to medium level office jobs, admin, functionary stuff. And that's fine but historically there's so little union representation in those areas

    The unions in the UK that remain have ended up being representative of a relatively specific group of people I.e public sector workers, blue collar service workers, certain privatised sectors like transport, and the last remnants of manufacturing. And that's good that they're unionised but increasingly people are working in jobs covered by none of them.

    White collar workers glacially morph from students into workforce, and as students, they get perks like insurance, housing, on-site health services, and protection from legal liability. In exchange, they work without really earning any money, so they can't do things like pay union dues or whatever. Then after years of working without engaging in union issues, they get positions with a level of seniority organized by how long they spent in education rather than how long they spent working at the same job - so paradoxically people in the highest levels of the hierarchy have the lowest experience with union related issues.

    Even the lower rungs of white collar jobs have experienced educational inflation, becoming experts in the science of their profession while ignoring or deferring the administrative aspect of their profession, to the point that being given the power to make these decisions can be seen as a punishment to people that love their jobs.

    I would not agree that it is axiomatically true that these people gain seniority based on education rather than time working at the job. I think that's true of people working in high paid white collar areas like tech and higher education. I don't believe it's true for lower paid white collar service industries. It's not true for the industry I work in which is a major employer of lower middle class office workers. I also don't agree that even if you are right it would have that impact on "union issues"

    Incidentally I predict that rather than talk about white collar unionisation we will now be derailed into an argument over this tangential matter.

    Solar on
    tynic
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I'd love to see more unionised white collar service industry workers in the UK

    Our manufacturing base is limited and a large amount of people work in relatively low to medium level office jobs, admin, functionary stuff. And that's fine but historically there's so little union representation in those areas

    The unions in the UK that remain have ended up being representative of a relatively specific group of people I.e public sector workers, blue collar service workers, certain privatised sectors like transport, and the last remnants of manufacturing. And that's good that they're unionised but increasingly people are working in jobs covered by none of them.

    White collar workers glacially morph from students into workforce, and as students, they get perks like insurance, housing, on-site health services, and protection from legal liability. In exchange, they work without really earning any money, so they can't do things like pay union dues or whatever. Then after years of working without engaging in union issues, they get positions with a level of seniority organized by how long they spent in education rather than how long they spent working at the same job - so paradoxically people in the highest levels of the hierarchy have the lowest experience with union related issues.

    Even the lower rungs of white collar jobs have experienced educational inflation, becoming experts in the science of their profession while ignoring or deferring the administrative aspect of their profession, to the point that being given the power to make these decisions can be seen as a punishment to people that love their jobs.

    I would not agree that it is axiomatically true that these people gain seniority based on education rather than time working at the job. I think that's true of people working in high paid white collar areas like tech and higher education. I don't believe it's true for lower paid white collar service industries. It's not true for the industry I work in which is a major employer of lower middle class office workers. I also don't agree that even if you are right it would have that impact on "union issues"

    Incidentally I predict that rather than talk about white collar unionisation we will now be derailed into an argument over this tangential matter.

    The purpose of my statement was to try and provide internal factors explaining why white collar workers don't unionize, because those are more modifiable than external ones, which we all know.

    If these internal factors of general knowledge of unions are not really important, then there's no need to address them.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I think its better to talk about ways we could get white collar workers to unionise. There's no culture of it, and how can that change? I have to say the existing unions seemingly have zero interest in promoting the value of unions in other sectors, which would help imo.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Is there a website where you can shop around and compare rates and benefits?

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    I think the UK issue is that the union that represents them is so large and vague that it doesn't seem particularly relevant and it's not obvious to join. Especially the low level jobs where you're expecting to switch jobs fairly often between areas covered by different unions.

  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    So, I have arrived at a point where I think it's time to organize my workplace. Based on sentiments and some counting, I think we have a good chance of success. However, I have never worked a union shop or been directly involved in an organization campaign, so I'm requesting guidance from people here with more experience.

    My understanding of the rules are that 1/3rd of the workers must sign a form/cards to trigger a vote. But I don't know where to find these forms or cards. Do we write them up ourselves? Do I get them from my state's labor relations board's website? Am I just supposed to print a bunch out and surreptitiously distribute them?

    After getting cards/forms filled out, am I just supposed to mail them to the state labor board to get an official vote scheduled?

    Additionally we don't want to join one of the major trade unions; we want to create our own union. The recent Starbucks saga, and a few other smaller successes, shows me that this is more than possible. But does this entail extra steps to gain official recognition?

    Lastly, our workplace relies on migrant workers during the summer and fall (not totally sure which visa program they fall under). How does this factor in? I have no idea how labor law or common organization practices interface with workers on visa programs, or what I am supposed to do in that regard.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer any of my questions.

    Kaputa on
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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Paging @Hacksaw since this should be in his wheelhouse.

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Even if you dont want to join as part of them, I would recommend looking into other local or regional unions for advice and to see what items might come up as potential opportunities or pitfalls.

    As we saw with a number of otherwise liberal businesses with otherwise liberal ownership, there can still be acrimonious pushback.

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Even if you dont want to join as part of them, I would recommend looking into other local or regional unions for advice and to see what items might come up as potential opportunities or pitfalls.

    As we saw with a number of otherwise liberal businesses with otherwise liberal ownership, there can still be acrimonious pushback.

    Fair point, I am of course totally down to recieve advice from any established unions in my area, so long as they are willing to advise me.

    And mine is not a liberal business, if the bosses catch on I will probably be fired.

  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Given that last part, you will definitely want to make sure you stay vague, because as is oft repeated, this is a publicly indexed forum, so we do show up in Google search results.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I would go so far as to say since your discussing this on the forums to air gap your forum usage from your work devices and review your post history to make sure there is nothing that would closely link your account to you/ your workplace.

    Depending on your company once they get the hint of unionization they may hire a PI to determine who is organizing and culling through social media for hints is a tried and true step.

    But talking to established unions in your area / field is a good first step. General organization and knowledge can be handy but the specifics of your industry and area will be key and you will want as much help as you can get. Just be careful and don't use work resources for anything related to this effort.

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    I have no social media or any internet presence with my real name, so I'm not super worried about being traced back here, but I appreciate the warnings nonetheless, and information identifying my state and the country of origin of our migrant workers has been edited out of my initial post just in case they hire Batman or something.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I have no social media or any internet presence with my real name, so I'm not super worried about being traced back here, but I appreciate the warnings nonetheless, and information identifying my state and the country of origin of our migrant workers has been edited out of my initial post just in case they hire Batman or something.

    Just to be clear, you need to check your entire post history, because it's relatively easy to find, and info can (and probably will) be gathered.

    Bullhead
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    For example the posts where you describe yourself as a communist.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    *Appears in a puff of smoke, cracks knuckles*

    So you want to form a union do you? B)

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  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    More unions for everyone.

    Actually I was in a bizarre management meeting where one of the sites was going to hold a union (CBA) vote, and some of the olds were considering various tactics to dissuade it. But me and two of my peers ran through how we would actually get paid more because it was a govt contract, and if they unionize we can apply for equitable adjustment, so let them do whatever they plan to and we’ll just ask for the Delta.

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    One thing these conversations are revealing to me is how little many workers understand about unions.

    "Yeah that sounds cool, but there's no way [the CEO] will ever go for that."

    "I wouldn't be against it, but management would definitely say no."

    No fucking shit guys. There is an absurd but seemingly common misunderstanding that we would need permission from the boss to unionize. The fact that there would never have been any unions if it worked this way doesn't occur to people because apparently none of them were ever taught any labor history.

    "I'm pretty sure our employment contract says we can't."

    I wanna punch whatever lying asshole spread that information. Aside from being false in this case, it is also illegal, but of course no one knows that.

    "What exactly is a union? What does it do?"

    Well at least that one's just a question and not a horrific misunderstanding, but damn, that is something everyone of working age should know.

    I am flabbergasted by the self-injurious ignorance of my coworkers. It's a lesson I've learned before but it never fails to shock and disturb me. I'd say "they should teach more labor history in schools" but I think it's pretty obvious why they do not; the situation I am complaining about is very beneficial to, say, our CEO and owners.

    Despite this, I haven't actually encountered opposition or negative sentiment yet. Of course I'm avoiding those workers who seem to worship our CEO (folks I would describe as having a propensity for boot-licking), so there's a fair amount of self-selection bias here.

    Kaputa on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    There has been a concerted effort by media, a chunk of our government, and businesses to spread misinformation and suppress information on how unions work, how they are formed, and the legal rights around unionization.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

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  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

    They need both.

    I'm nearly 40 years old and I've learned a ton of shit from this thread alone, that I stood next to no chance of learning on my own. I think a lot of people would feel very differently about unionization and unions if they knew labor history, and would wring their hands a bit less about their favorite manager being mad at them.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

    They need both.

    I'm nearly 40 years old and I've learned a ton of shit from this thread alone, that I stood next to no chance of learning on my own. I think a lot of people would feel very differently about unionization and unions if they knew labor history, and would wring their hands a bit less about their favorite manager being mad at them.

    Oh yeah. But this sounds like a lot of people who don't even really understand what a union is in the first place. Like they are entirely unfamiliar with the concept in any real or practical manner.

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Most recent labor history is about how leadership was coopted by slugs and the mob, and that portrayal has been prevailing in pop culture since at least Reagan if not earlier. And because of leadership being rotten, unions are useless so why bother having them if they won't do anything for you, specifically?

    My mom is part of a union as a schoolworker and she's always thrilled to tell me what idiocy and backwards policies they introduce to make her job making school lunches more difficult or putting up with someone's petty power play cause of seniority and that's the image every union has to fight against, in addition to working for worker's rights against increasingly hostile management.

    5 day work week? 8 hour work days? What's a union done for 'em lately? As I've said elsewhere, it's not enough to stop erosion of rights from occurring, you have to actively offer people better things as you go on to have them in your corner.

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Seniority seems like a toxic system in general.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

    They need both.

    I'm nearly 40 years old and I've learned a ton of shit from this thread alone, that I stood next to no chance of learning on my own. I think a lot of people would feel very differently about unionization and unions if they knew labor history, and would wring their hands a bit less about their favorite manager being mad at them.

    I had no idea until a year or two ago that the actual first time bombs were dropped on American soil was during a strike/war and they were dropped by America on Americans.

    Labor history is not taught at all.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

    They need both.

    I'm nearly 40 years old and I've learned a ton of shit from this thread alone, that I stood next to no chance of learning on my own. I think a lot of people would feel very differently about unionization and unions if they knew labor history, and would wring their hands a bit less about their favorite manager being mad at them.

    I had no idea until a year or two ago that the actual first time bombs were dropped on American soil was during a strike/war and they were dropped by America on Americans.

    Labor history is not taught at all.

    3r40xehk06pq.jpeg

    Pictured: the Blair Mountain miners, having brought the bomb to court in their case against the mine owners and their lackies (it, thankfully, had not gone off when dropped by the authorizes and security hired by the owners; they were made from leftover WWI munition and were fairly ramshackle)

    MatevMan in the MistsShadowfireHacksawThawmusHefflingdurandal4532Mayabird
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It sounds less like they need labour history and more like they need labour information. Which isn't surprising really considering how low the rates of unionization are in the US workforce. And that small number is concentrated in older labourers as well. And school history, at least from what I've ever seen, seems to less vilify labour history then it does simply ignore it all together.

    They need both.

    I'm nearly 40 years old and I've learned a ton of shit from this thread alone, that I stood next to no chance of learning on my own. I think a lot of people would feel very differently about unionization and unions if they knew labor history, and would wring their hands a bit less about their favorite manager being mad at them.

    I had no idea until a year or two ago that the actual first time bombs were dropped on American soil was during a strike/war and they were dropped by America on Americans.

    Labor history is not taught at all.

    3r40xehk06pq.jpeg

    Pictured: the Blair Mountain miners, having brought the bomb to court in their case against the mine owners and their lackies (it, thankfully, had not gone off when dropped by the authorizes and security hired by the owners; they were made from leftover WWI munition and were fairly ramshackle)

    So THAT'S where they got the end of Cars 2 from.....

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Seniority seems like a toxic system in general.

    It's not the best system that could ever possibly exist, but it is one of the least corruptible. You can't game the system to get greater seniority, you can only accumulate it. Short of rank corruption and/or fraud, there's no way to become more senior than any other worker you started alongside if you both have matching start dates.

    Merit and skill systems are absolutely a different matter. Boy howdy don't even get me started on the pitfalls of those systems ability to determine a worker's worth or viability.

    ShadowfireThawmusFANTOMASdestroyah87kimeMartini_PhilosopherMoridin889KaputaMan in the Mists
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    It's always good to remember that unions are a power structure inhabited by barely evolved apes. Same as management or government or your local HOA.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    ThawmusSmrtnikElvenshaeMan in the Mists
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited May 11
    Matev wrote: »
    Most recent labor history is about how leadership was coopted by slugs and the mob, and that portrayal has been prevailing in pop culture since at least Reagan if not earlier. And because of leadership being rotten, unions are useless so why bother having them if they won't do anything for you, specifically?

    My mom is part of a union as a schoolworker and she's always thrilled to tell me what idiocy and backwards policies they introduce to make her job making school lunches more difficult or putting up with someone's petty power play cause of seniority and that's the image every union has to fight against, in addition to working for worker's rights against increasingly hostile management.

    5 day work week? 8 hour work days? What's a union done for 'em lately? As I've said elsewhere, it's not enough to stop erosion of rights from occurring, you have to actively offer people better things as you go on to have them in your corner.

    It seems that any organization that lasts more than a few years just eventually rots as it focuses more on its continued existence than its original goals.

    Would love to be wrong on this one.

    Thawmus on
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    It's always good to remember that unions are a power structure inhabited by barely evolved apes. Same as management or government or your local HOA.

    Yeah, but the union apes are on my side.

    Usually.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    It's always good to remember that unions are a power structure inhabited by barely evolved apes. Same as management or government or your local HOA.

    Yeah, but the union apes are on my side.

    Usually.

    a5y4b793ohhb.jpeg

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    Kayne Red RobeIncenjucarTefThawmusnever dieGnome-InterruptusFencingsaxminor incidentMatevMartini_PhilosopherShadowfireHacksawMoridin889ironsizideVegemytetynicMan in the MistsElendilMayabird
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    There has been a concerted effort by media, a chunk of our government, and businesses to spread misinformation and suppress information on how unions work, how they are formed, and the legal rights around unionization.

    And Public Education. Like my education on the Appalachian worker revolts was "company scrip bad, but labor was suppressed anyway."

    DoodmannMartini_Philosopher
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