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The [Labor] Thread: strike while the iron is hot!

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  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    There is no way capital backed unions are good for labor, this is insane. It's just another form of attack on labor.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    So there was an ad during jeopardy tonight that was all "call your state senator and tell them to oppose this law, it'll increase restaurant costs!"

    So I went looking.

    California may have found a way around federal prohibition against sectoral unions.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/8/15/23296481/fast-food-ab257-california-sectoral-labor-unions
    The legislation would establish a new state council with the power to set minimum working standards for fast food restaurants across California. It would also create a means to hold companies like McDonald’s and Pizza Hut legally responsible for any labor violations at individual stores, even if those individual stores are owned by franchisees. Right now, big corporations are generally not liable for their franchisees breaking labor laws.

    In many European countries, unions negotiate working standards that apply to workers across an entire industry, not just one company. This approach, known as “sectoral bargaining,” is particularly useful for protecting workers toiling in industries that rely heavily on part-time staff, contractors, and subcontractors. Sectoral bargaining is prohibited by federal labor law in the US, but the bill in California is a similar idea, and a step that a labor-friendly state can take on its own.

    ...

    The law would establish a 13-member council that includes political appointees from state health and labor agencies, as well as food industry officials, fast food workers, and union representatives. The council would “promulgate minimum standards” for things like wages and working conditions for restaurants where workers aren’t unionized. The bill would also clarify joint liability for the franchisor and franchisee, and establish protections for workers who exercise their rights.

    The standards would apply to any chain in California that has at least 30 stores nationwide that share a common brand.

    Only six votes from the council are required to issue a rule, which means even if all four direct representatives from the business community reject it, the measure could still pass. The California legislature would have an opportunity to reject or change the council’s proposed standards, as would the state’s Occupational Health and Safety Administration.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    There is no way capital backed unions are good for labor, this is insane. It's just another form of attack on labor.

    It's not entirely stupid on paper.

    The stronger the union becomes the more money they make, and they leverage that strength to pay off the union members.

    Also holy fuck what a terrible bad idea with the absolute worse perverse incentives. Like unions arent great (edit- with many having captured/ corrupt leadership) but outsourcing it to venture capital seems like a super bad idea.

    Then again if labor becomes one of the megacorps in our future dystopian hell I guess it beats the alternative slightly.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    There is no way capital backed unions are good for labor, this is insane. It's just another form of attack on labor.

    It's not entirely stupid on paper.

    The stronger the union becomes the more money they make, and they leverage that strength to pay off the union members.

    Also holy fuck what a terrible bad idea with the absolute worse perverse incentives. Like unions arent great (edit- with many having captured/ corrupt leadership) but outsourcing it to venture capital seems like a super bad idea.

    Then again if labor becomes one of the megacorps in our future dystopian hell I guess it beats the alternative slightly.

    The obvious thing to say is that this is a plot to sell data from the labor organization to the mega corps. No need to have moles when you can just data harvest everything and plan accordingly.

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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    So my labor union national has affiliated with another national, which is part of the AFL-CIO. I guess I'm part of big labor now.

    Our local will get one of those Local XXXX numbers and for the first time I'll have a union card and stuff. I'm weirdly giddy about it all.

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  • CidTheSquidCidTheSquid Registered User regular
    Updates on the potential railway labor strike: the PEB report is released, and rail workers are unhappy it doesn't address their major concerns.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/railroads-back-plan-calling-for-24-percent-raises-but-workers-wary
    “It’s clear academic politically motivated labor mediators are out of touch with the reality of working conditions on the railroad today. They chose capital over the needs of workers and our nation,” Union Pacific engineer Ross Grooters said on Twitter.

    Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely congress will allow them to strike.
    Both sides have 30 days to negotiate a new contract before federal law would allow a strike or lockout, but even if they can’t reach an agreement Congress is likely to intervene to prevent a strike that would disrupt the flow of goods across all sectors of the economy.

  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I'm almost surprised forbidding workers to strike on the grounds that their work is too important doesn't backfire in catastrophic fashion so often as to make it pointless.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    I'm almost surprised forbidding workers to strike on the grounds that their work is too important doesn't backfire in catastrophic fashion so often as to make it pointless.

    One word: PATCO.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    With Labor Day in the US coming up some of the analysis of unions in the last year has started to be done.

    In the US its been a good year for unionization.

    Stealing from this Vox Article:
    https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/8/30/23326654/2022-union-charts-elections-wins-strikes

    Unions had a 76.6% win rate with elections this year.
    las8asu1wxq0.png


    And 43,000 more people joined new unions this year which is a huge leap. And as seen below workers are flexing their ability to strike with a lot more strikes over previous years.
    am2upcxkkdqu.png

    And last and one of the most important parts. We have hit the highest approval ratings for Unions since 1965. And there has been basically a reversal from all the post 80's anti-union propaganda.

    hm2uwjmi1fr4.png

    u7stthr17eud.png
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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    So there was an ad during jeopardy tonight that was all "call your state senator and tell them to oppose this law, it'll increase restaurant costs!"

    So I went looking.

    California may have found a way around federal prohibition against sectoral unions.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/8/15/23296481/fast-food-ab257-california-sectoral-labor-unions
    The legislation would establish a new state council with the power to set minimum working standards for fast food restaurants across California. It would also create a means to hold companies like McDonald’s and Pizza Hut legally responsible for any labor violations at individual stores, even if those individual stores are owned by franchisees. Right now, big corporations are generally not liable for their franchisees breaking labor laws.

    In many European countries, unions negotiate working standards that apply to workers across an entire industry, not just one company. This approach, known as “sectoral bargaining,” is particularly useful for protecting workers toiling in industries that rely heavily on part-time staff, contractors, and subcontractors. Sectoral bargaining is prohibited by federal labor law in the US, but the bill in California is a similar idea, and a step that a labor-friendly state can take on its own.

    ...

    The law would establish a 13-member council that includes political appointees from state health and labor agencies, as well as food industry officials, fast food workers, and union representatives. The council would “promulgate minimum standards” for things like wages and working conditions for restaurants where workers aren’t unionized. The bill would also clarify joint liability for the franchisor and franchisee, and establish protections for workers who exercise their rights.

    The standards would apply to any chain in California that has at least 30 stores nationwide that share a common brand.

    Only six votes from the council are required to issue a rule, which means even if all four direct representatives from the business community reject it, the measure could still pass. The California legislature would have an opportunity to reject or change the council’s proposed standards, as would the state’s Occupational Health and Safety Administration.

    Update: Law has passed the legislature.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    What the fuck happened in 2010?

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    What the fuck happened in 2010?

    Republicans blamed unions for the Great Recession

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    What the fuck happened in 2010?

    Guessing that's fallout from the 2008 financial crash.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    There was an undercurrent during the recession that unions were preventing companies from hiring, and unions were villified due to people getting new jobs starting at the bottom of the seniority line, and thus getting less pay.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    There was an undercurrent during the recession that unions were preventing companies from hiring, and unions were villified due to people getting new jobs starting at the bottom of the seniority line, and thus getting less pay.

    The bottom of the seniority mention is a bit of an understatement. In the lead up to the Great Recession a lot of unions accepted two tier systems where existing hires maintained their benefits but new hires were on a different tier with far shittier terms and benefits.

    It wasn't just starting at the bottom with low seniority, the established union membership in many unions explicitly pulled the ladder up behind them. That is of course going to lead to a lot of resentment both among the newer members, and a loss of faith among existing membership that union leadership was acting in the worker's best interests.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    There was an undercurrent during the recession that unions were preventing companies from hiring, and unions were villified due to people getting new jobs starting at the bottom of the seniority line, and thus getting less pay.

    Hostess managed to pretty successfully pin their failure on union workers around that time.

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  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited August 30
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    What the fuck happened in 2010?

    Tea party “movement.”

    AKA racism

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also the automotive unions helped with that industry bailout and also were shitty about ACA stuff around the same time so could catch it from both directions.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    You also have state/municipal unions in general seeing less layoffs then the general populace and in places like NJ and WI you have governors/gubernatorial candidates using them as scapegoats for the failures of private capital

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 7
    BREAKING: US District Judge Reed O’Connor in Texas rules that requiring employers to provide coverage for PrEP drugs (preventing the transmission of HIV) violates the religious rights of employers under federal law (RFRA).

    For far too many people in positions of power, the rights of corporations will always supercede the rights of an individual.

    Healthcare needs to be decoupled from employment and provided to all.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    BREAKING: US District Judge Reed O’Connor in Texas rules that requiring employers to provide coverage for PrEP drugs (preventing the transmission of HIV) violates the religious rights of employers under federal law (RFRA).

    For far too many people in positions of power, the rights of corporations will always supercede the rights of an individual.

    Healthcare needs to be decoupled from employment and provided to all.

    Also, RFRA is horrible Law.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    I think if a corporation is going to claim sincere religious beliefs, then it should have to first demonstrate a commitment to the tenets of the religion on which it bases them, as laid out in the relevant holy book. Let's say minimum one year of strict adherence to Old Testament Judaism or whatever before a religious freedom exemption is granted. If the corp is found to be in violation of the religion at any time after the exemption is granted, the exemption goes away and the clock resets.

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Does that mean if a company is run by Jehovah's Witnesses, they can refuse to provide coverage for blood transfusions? Or is it just that specific set of Christian beliefs that count? Fuck this stupid fucking country.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 7
    Seriously, what religion is pro-HIV?

    I mean I know, but surely this also means that they should not be allowed medical care as obviously that is God's will. Why do they even have insurance of any kind, let alone health, if that's how they feel.

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  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist forever cult Registered User regular
    HIV is a sexually transmitted disease which means only wicked people have it. That includes children or people who had blood transfusions. In this church there is no Christ-like forgiveness.

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    We really need to get a solid test of personal religious freedom vs. corporate "religious freedom".

    Also, completely get rid of anything resembling corporate personhood because it's fucking bullshit. Which would settle the above.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    BREAKING: US District Judge Reed O’Connor in Texas rules that requiring employers to provide coverage for PrEP drugs (preventing the transmission of HIV) violates the religious rights of employers under federal law (RFRA).

    For far too many people in positions of power, the rights of corporations will always supercede the rights of an individual.

    Healthcare needs to be decoupled from employment and provided to all.

    This doesn't read like corporate power over people. It looks like the now standard playbook of US conservative jurisprudence imposing conservative christianity onto everyone because to not do so would be violating the religious freedoms of whatever group happens to be convenient in that specific case. (note: only conservative christian religious freedoms qualify for protection)

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited September 8
    That lets start jailing corporations for murder instead of letting them get away with essentially insignificant fines. Corporations are people? Ok no problem, your Pinto exploding and joking a bunch of people = your corporation goes to jail for 60 years. All assets confiscated and returned at the end of the term. Cannot donate money to PACs for the duration. After it gets out, must put on every contract (including hiring) that they spent time in jail for murder.

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    That it start jailing corporations for murder instead of letting them get away with essentially insignificant fines. Corporations are people? Ok no problem, your Pinto exploding and joking a bunch of people = your corporation goes to jail for 60 years. All assets confiscated and returned at the end of the term. Cannot donate money to PACs for the duration. After it gets out, must put on every contract (including hiring) that they spent time in jail for murder.

    Somewhere a CEO is looking at their company and thinking, "You know, darling. It might be a lesser hit to the stock price if you just go to jail for 60 years."

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 7
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Seriously, what religion is pro-HIV?

    I mean I know, but surely this also means that they should not be allowed medical care as obviously that is God's will. Why do they even have insurance of any kind, let alone health, if that's how they feel.

    Christianity is anti-gay people and pro-dead gay people.
    Edit: Evangelical Christianity

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    We really need to get a solid test of personal religious freedom vs. corporate "religious freedom".

    Also, completely get rid of anything resembling corporate personhood because it's fucking bullshit. Which would settle the above.

    Corporate personhood is just the name given to the idea that corporations can sue, be sued, etc as a legal entity. Or it was until SCOTUS hacks made nonsense of it.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular

    .SenWarren
    is reintroducing a bill that would repeal all ‘right-to-work’ laws, with 18 Dem co-sponsors. Would nullify RTW in 27 states.

    BradSherman is introducing a companion bill on the House side.

    Warren says RTW’s “one goal” is to “destroy unions”

    Hell

    Yeah

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Oh man, if that passes, the Supreme Court is gonna strike that down SO fast. It's exactly the kind of "federalism doesn't exist except when we want it to" bullshit they love to rule against. Though who knows, I guess we'll see, hopefully it sticks around if it passes cause that sounds rad.

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  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    As has been brought up months ago in this thread: Large railroad strike might be coming. The two largest railroad unions haven't reached an agreement yet and the cool-off period ends Friday. 8 of the 12 unions have made temporary agreements, but these two make up 50% of all railroad workers, have not made such an agreement, and they have clauses that let the other unions benefit from their negotiations:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/12/large-rail-labor-unions-move-closer-to-a-strike.html

    The contention is mostly over the attendance system, which the unions are calling inhumane and brutal. One example given in the article is that if someone takes a day off to attend a funeral, they're penalized.

    If they strike, effect on the economy would be $2B/day, and 40% of our long-distance trade. American Trucking Association (ATA) has urged Congress to do something because they can't carry the load if the trains are down, stating they'd need 460,000 more trucks on the road every day to accommodate the loss.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    Twin Cities and Duluth MN nurses have begun a three day strike for all the usual reasons (increase in pay, safer nurse to patient ratios, benefits).

    This is all coming to a head in just about every division of hospital care. Staff are being asked to do a lot more in a pandemic world than before and are given fewer and fewer resources. This leads to a revolving door of staff where no one stays in the job for long and experienced staff aren't given any retention benefits.

    Strikes within nursing are a unique dynamic. You can't just walk out, cause you'll kill people. So this follows the dance of notifying management you intend to strike on this date so they can hire temporary staff at insane rates (recruiters are offering up to $10,000 a week for a week of staffing).

    The goal is to keep the strike going to bleed the institutions from both ends, on one hand you lose hospital billing because no nurses in revenue generating areas (elective procedures) and on the other management pays insane wages for temporary staff.

    I hope they get everything they want.

    https://mssi.com/twin-cities-nurse-strike

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    As has been brought up months ago in this thread: Large railroad strike might be coming. The two largest railroad unions haven't reached an agreement yet and the cool-off period ends Friday. 8 of the 12 unions have made temporary agreements, but these two make up 50% of all railroad workers, have not made such an agreement, and they have clauses that let the other unions benefit from their negotiations:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/12/large-rail-labor-unions-move-closer-to-a-strike.html

    The contention is mostly over the attendance system, which the unions are calling inhumane and brutal. One example given in the article is that if someone takes a day off to attend a funeral, they're penalized.

    If they strike, effect on the economy would be $2B/day, and 40% of our long-distance trade. American Trucking Association (ATA) has urged Congress to do something because they can't carry the load if the trains are down, stating they'd need 460,000 more trucks on the road every day to accommodate the loss.

    I thought the Federal government and courts stepped in and forbid the strike. Are they striking illegally?

    Calica
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/starbucks-adds-benefits-non-union-us-workers-ahead-investor-day-2022-09-12/
    Starbucks announced new student loan repayment tools and a savings account program for all U.S. employees who are not union members, the company said on Monday, amid a growing union drive and soaring demand for coffee.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I don't understand how that doesn't just immediately get added to the list of Union demands when contract negotiation comes up. It feels like in an effort to short circuit the union drive they're locking themselves into a compensation inflation cycle. They make it clear there is more money on the table for compensation in the face of the Union.

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  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    I don't understand how that doesn't just immediately get added to the list of Union demands when contract negotiation comes up. It feels like in an effort to short circuit the union drive they're locking themselves into a compensation inflation cycle. They make it clear there is more money on the table for compensation in the face of the Union.

    Everyone knows there is more money. Starbucks is just trying to short circuit the Union. It's literally a little money now instead of constant money down the road.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I don't understand how that doesn't just immediately get added to the list of Union demands when contract negotiation comes up. It feels like in an effort to short circuit the union drive they're locking themselves into a compensation inflation cycle. They make it clear there is more money on the table for compensation in the face of the Union.

    It's also going to show other employees in other businesses that unionizing works which is the best.

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