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Penny Arcade - Comic - Fractal Parody

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    beeftruck wrote: »
    Sinners and wrongthinkers had Whedon painted as the embodiment of the gross weird Male Feminist stereotype eons ago. I guess he's become irrelevant and unprofitable enough that people of virtue are allowed on to notice now too.

    This post has some weird buzzwords in it that I'm sure mean something to you, but without context it just sounds like you had a seizure while posting.

    Whedon has had critics for as long as he's been producing content. Feminists critiqued him long before even that story of his serial cheating on his wife came out. Are feminists the "sinners" and "wrong thinkers" you're referring to?

    H3KnucklesRingoAndy JoeDjiemYoungFreyDemonStacey
  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Classic shitpost and run tactics from the remaining goobergators of the forum I see.

    I've always felt something off about Whedon but never really expressed it much, considering how much everyone else seemed to really enjoy the things he made like Buffy and Firefly. Where I thought he finally exposed himself, well before the allegations, was the utterly dreadful Black Widow subplot of Avengers 2. Everything about it was so beyond dumb and awful, which is why I am glad they largely binned that nonsense in future movies bar a couple of references in Thor Ragnarok. I remember getting a tremendous amount of pushback on that at the time about it being from a misogynistic place - after all I was criticizing Joss who created Buffy here! - but I knew that bullshit had to come from somewhere deeply problematic.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Nadav wrote: »
    I just want to mention a typo here, the name is Gadot, not Godot

    I was waiting for this

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    beeftruck wrote: »
    Sinners and wrongthinkers had Whedon painted as the embodiment of the gross weird Male Feminist stereotype eons ago. I guess he's become irrelevant and unprofitable enough that people of virtue are allowed to notice now too.

    A broken clock is right twice a day, and when it's right it's still not because it's working.

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  • NashmiteNashmite Registered User new member
    As a Christian, Joss cheating on his wife is wrong. No deneigning that. Horrible. As for the movie and how he supposedly "treated" the cast... possible, but not likely in my opinion. I think Joss was thrown into a situation that he didn't create and did the best he could while dealing with a bunch of entitled, bitchy celebs. For example; in keeping true to the source material, Wonder Woman is not the lead and therefore should not be front and center in the shots nor in the posters. It's not a stab at her character (she's great), but she's not the leader, despite her ovaries. The guy who played Cyborg was only in a short film before JL and was already bitching about not being taken seriously because of the color of his skin. Sorry man. Go fill out your resume a little, stop being a racist, and then we can talk about your worth on-screen. I think Joss was running a daycare and did a fairly decent job at it, all things considered. When Hollywood and the media are in bed together, you only get to see what they want you to see. And if you're a man like Joss or Mel and you're going against the chosen naritive, you won't be popular, no matter how much money you make.

    "Fortunate circumstances do not equate to high principles." - R. A. Salvatore
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    So anyway...

    If they made a Firefly game, would it use the Nemesis system for all of Mal's crew and old business partners?

    BloodySlothTofystedethAngelHedgieAegeriAndy JoeDemonStacey
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Nashmite wrote: »
    As a Christian, Joss cheating on his wife is wrong. No deneigning that. Horrible. As for the movie and how he supposedly "treated" the cast... possible, but not likely in my opinion. I think Joss was thrown into a situation that he didn't create and did the best he could while dealing with a bunch of entitled, bitchy celebs. For example; in keeping true to the source material, Wonder Woman is not the lead and therefore should not be front and center in the shots nor in the posters. It's not a stab at her character (she's great), but she's not the leader, despite her ovaries. The guy who played Cyborg was only in a short film before JL and was already bitching about not being taken seriously because of the color of his skin. Sorry man. Go fill out your resume a little, stop being a racist, and then we can talk about your worth on-screen. I think Joss was running a daycare and did a fairly decent job at it, all things considered. When Hollywood and the media are in bed together, you only get to see what they want you to see. And if you're a man like Joss or Mel and you're going against the chosen naritive, you won't be popular, no matter how much money you make.

    Yeah, I can see how you'd be defending Joss. Your post is just full of the same kind of bullshit.

    Bonus points for deciding the first thing you ever post is going to the mat for a dirtbag.

    dennis on
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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    dennis wrote: »
    Nashmite wrote: »
    As a Christian, Joss cheating on his wife is wrong. No deneigning that. Horrible. As for the movie and how he supposedly "treated" the cast... possible, but not likely in my opinion. I think Joss was thrown into a situation that he didn't create and did the best he could while dealing with a bunch of entitled, bitchy celebs. For example; in keeping true to the source material, Wonder Woman is not the lead and therefore should not be front and center in the shots nor in the posters. It's not a stab at her character (she's great), but she's not the leader, despite her ovaries. The guy who played Cyborg was only in a short film before JL and was already bitching about not being taken seriously because of the color of his skin. Sorry man. Go fill out your resume a little, stop being a racist, and then we can talk about your worth on-screen. I think Joss was running a daycare and did a fairly decent job at it, all things considered. When Hollywood and the media are in bed together, you only get to see what they want you to see. And if you're a man like Joss or Mel and you're going against the chosen naritive, you won't be popular, no matter how much money you make.

    Yeah, I can see how you'd be defending Joss. Your post is just full of the same kind of bullshit.

    Bonus points for deciding the first thing you ever post is going to the mat for a dirtbag.

    The implication that he thinks Mel Gibson was merely 'going against the chosen naritive' [sic], and not a hateful drunkard, says a lot. None of it good.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Yeah, I got to "Hollywood and the media" and was a bit collar-tuggy, but then the mask really came off / hood really went on by deciding that what the post needed was a Mel Gibson reference

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Pretty much any time someone starts off a comment in a sociopolitical discussion with "As a Christian", you know they're about to say some things that would have had Yeshua of Nazareth palming his face.

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  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Pretty much any time someone starts off a comment in a sociopolitical discussion with "As a Christian", you know they're about to say some things that would have had Yeshua of Nazareth facepalming.

    It's like "if someone hadn't told me I have to say this is wrong to be part of my group, I would have given him a complete pass."

    As a decent human being, I think all of that shit is wrong. No one needed to tell me this.

    H3KnucklesHahnsoo1AngelHedgieAegeriAndy Joe
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Pretty much any time someone starts off a comment in a sociopolitical discussion with "As a Christian", you know they're about to say some things that would have had Yeshua of Nazareth palming his face.

    It's already been established that there's a pretty insurmountable language barrier between Gal and Joss. Since Yeshua spoke the same language, it's understandable that Joss and Nashmite missed out on the "don't be a greedy manipulative dick" themes in Yeshua's teachings.

    H3Knuckles
  • NashmiteNashmite Registered User new member
    I like conversation and civil debate. It's how we grow as individuals. However, all I'm hearing is "your words are stupid and you're a dummy-head." Not compelling arguments I'm afraid. However, I do like hearing it because it's a fairly good indicator that I'm over the target.

    If a news organization has been caught in a lie, it can no longer be trusted and facts will need to be found elsewhere. It sucks, I know, but that's basic logic. You're stuck in an illusion, and I understand because I was there with you not too terribly long ago. Hopefully I encouraged someone out there to not believe what I'm saying, but rather to just start questioning the world they're being presented. That's the best place to start.

    Don't believe something because a person who looks important and happens to own a website said it. Go deeper. And good luck.

    "Fortunate circumstances do not equate to high principles." - R. A. Salvatore
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    I like conversation and civil debate. It's how we grow as individuals. However, all I'm hearing is "your words are stupid and you're a dummy-head." Not compelling arguments I'm afraid. However, I do like hearing it because it's a fairly good indicator that I'm over the target.

    Much like Whedon has suggested that the problem is that he was too nice, I guess the problem with our responses to your post is that you were just too smart.

    Yep, that's probably it.

    AegeriRhesus Positiveel_vicioAngelHedgieDjiemHahnsoo1YoungFreyAndy JoeDemonStacey
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    I like conversation and civil debate. It's how we grow as individuals.
    Ah yes, please tone-police this conversation and turn it into a performative "debate", that's a new one. So surprised.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    Hopefully I encouraged someone out there to not believe what I'm saying

    I got good news for you.

    Rhesus PositiveAngelHedgiedennisHahnsoo1YoungFreyAegeriAndy JoeDemonStacey
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    "People telling me that I'm stupid and wrong actually means that I'm right" is a hell of a hot take. There's no "deneigning" that. :D

    CSPOhhO.png
    dennisDjiemAegeri
  • NashmiteNashmite Registered User new member
    edited January 2022
    Nashmite was warned for this.
    Gonna stick with the "dummy-head" thing, huh? I guess, if that's working for you. I've looked for any actual rebuttals, but it seems nobody has anything. Just a lot of "Reeeeee!" Don't get me wrong; I love a good "Reeeeeee!" Lifts the spirit.

    Everyone but Djiem. Glad someone has begun questioning the main stream narrative.

    You go get 'em, buddy. I believe in ya'.

    A duck! on
    "Fortunate circumstances do not equate to high principles." - R. A. Salvatore
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    After googling "Reeee" I'm confident in saying that you've misinterpreted our reactions as much as you misinterpreted Djiem's response

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    @Nashmite I never said you were stupid. What I did say was that your inclusion of Mel Gibson reflected poorly on you. The audio recording of his ill-advised phone call was all over the news. You can find it online for yourself easily enough. The accusations about his character aren't fake.

    Beyond that, I'm not sure what exactly you want people to debate with you, to say nothing of how they are supposed to do so when you make it clear that you won't accept anyone's testimony against Whedon.

    Do you want me to elaborate on my comment about bad-faith Christians?
    The "Discourse on Ostentation" in Matthew 6 makes it pretty clear that you shouldn't tout your faith just to grandstand. Also, you know, there's the whole thing about not throwing stones, and the theme of forgiveness, so your condemnation immediately after bringing up your faith makes you look even more like the hypocrites Christ was speaking out against. That the entire rest of your first post is you ignoring any of the more serious allegations and choosing solely to argue against the most recent ones in order to paint Joss as a victim indicates that you don't even really care about the sexual misconduct in the first place. It's like Dennis said, your post gives the impression that you only mentioned the adultery as a pro-forma thing.

    Do you want me to explain why people took what you said to indicate that you might be a goose?
    There's been quite a lot of people who've spoken out about Joss Whedon by this point. It wasn't just two people on the set of Justice League. Some of it was even discussed earlier in this thread. That you just gloss right past any of those other accusations to paint him as being the target of a conspiracy to defame and cancel Whedon makes you look like either a willfully-blind fanboy or a disingenuous cretin trying push a narrative.

    Your original post lends itself to the latter interpretation, unfortunately. What the hell do Wonder Woman's ovaries have anything to do with whether or not she's the leader? Your need to bring that into the discussion makes you seem sexist. You dismiss out of hand the possibility that the actors who complained might be right, yet you never present an argument for why you have so much faith in Whedon. You also try to DARVO the black actor's claim of racial discrimination, which combined with the lack of any points in support of Whedon's character just makes it look like you are reflexively taking the white man's side out of personal bias.

    Would you like me to go into why people aren't taking your call for 'civil debate' seriously?
    You talk about Hollywood and the media like they're a monolithic entity. The film industry can be insular, but it hasn't stood united on much of anything since the collapse of the Hays Code. If someone gets successfully black-balled, it's strictly motivated by business concerns, and businesses don't manufacture excuses to blackball a successful earner 3 years after a single failure.

    Meanwhile, the news media are regularly at each other's throats. The notion that they are all working together to push a 'chosen narrative' suggests you don't actually pay much attention to the news. Your comment in your second post about 'If a news organization has been caught in a lie, it can no longer be trusted and facts will need to be found elsewhere' is a fancier way of saying 'fake news'. These stories didn't all come from one outlet, or even just from outlets with a shared parent company. So is all the news that portrays Whedon negatively fake? Skepticism is a good thing, but blanket dismissal like that simply isn't rational. Distrust of entire professional fields because of a small number of outliers not only makes you look paranoid, but it is the kind of anti-intellectualism which plays right into the hands of extremist political agendas.
    Nashmite wrote: »
    I like conversation and civil debate. It's how we grow as individuals. However, all I'm hearing is "your words are stupid and you're a dummy-head." Not compelling arguments I'm afraid. However, I do like hearing it because it's a fairly good indicator that I'm over the target.

    If a news organization has been caught in a lie, it can no longer be trusted and facts will need to be found elsewhere. It sucks, I know, but that's basic logic. You're stuck in an illusion, and I understand because I was there with you not too terribly long ago. Hopefully I encouraged someone out there to not believe what I'm saying, but rather to just start questioning the world they're being presented. That's the best place to start.

    Don't believe something because a person who looks important and happens to own a website said it. Go deeper. And good luck.

    This is the crux of the problem, though. You're not going to consider any of what I said above. You won't 'go deeper' and listen to the audio of Mel Gibson screaming racist rhetoric. You don't want to look at the evidence that doesn't confirm your bias, so you cling to trite ways to discount anything that challenges your views. The way you mischaracterized people judging you poorly or disagreeing with you as childish insults to your intelligence, combined with pretentious statements like telling people who dissent that they are 'stuck in an illusion', demonstrate a grandiose sense of self that is fragile & easily threatened.

    You entered the thread with an acknowledgement of Whedon's cheating, which he has admitted to in interviews. While he tried to put his own spin on things, he didn't deny the core of the allegations coming from people who had worked with him prior to Justice League. So Occam's Razor, which is more likely; That the guy who admits to being a creep continued to be a creep in other ways, or that a bunch of actors (including Jason Momoa, who you seem to have forgotten about) and competing media outlets are conspiring against him?

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited January 2022
    Yeah... that was definitely a take. Gal's handling of her Joss issue seems to be very high level and not well published, so there's not much say about it other than she got it fixed. Jeremy Irons also seemed to have issues with the shooting, though he really only recently went so far as to call the movie itself "dreadful" in an interview about another movie (Source, though many more words have been written about that line than he said about the movie and his experience).

    Ray Fisher's beef was substantial though. Quoting the reporting done on this, there isn't really any room to doubt that Snyder's original intent (even as realized with his cut) was to center the movie on Cyborg:
    When it comes to the new guys, “they’re each such awesome personalities in the movie,” Snyder promises. “You have Jason stomping around as this inked hairy man, just this mythic figure. And you’ve got Ezra, who’s full of life and hilarious and all over the place and amazing — a really fun and also poignant Flash. And Ray’s story is in a lot of the ways the heart of the movie.”

    Snyder, USA Today 03/27/2017
    The Justice League that Fisher had signed up for was a far cry from the film that Whedon ended up finishing. Snyder had Fisher talk at length with screenwriter Chris Terrio before there was even a script. “Zack and I always considered Cyborg’s story to be the heart of the movie,” Terrio tells THR. “He has the most pronounced character arc of any of the heroes,” beginning from a place of despair and ending with a feeling that “he is whole and that he is loved.” And Terrio says he and Snyder took the portrayal of the first Black superhero in the DC film universe “very seriously,” adding, “With a white writer and white director, we both thought having the perspective of an actor of color was really important. And Ray is really good with story and character, so he became a partner in creating Victor,” referring to the character’s given name.

    (Source)

    There's many other articles where they reinforce the whole Cyborg origin story/big part of the movie thing before Whedon.

    Cut to Whedon:
    The actors, at least some of them, felt Whedon had been rude, too. Ray Fisher, a young Black actor, played Cyborg; it was his first major role. Snyder had centered the film on his character — the first Black superhero in a DC movie — and he’d treated Fisher as a writing partner, soliciting his opinions on the film’s representations of Black people. Whedon downsized Cyborg’s role, cutting scenes that, in Fisher’s view, challenged stereotypes.​​ When Fisher raised his concerns about the revisions in a phone call, Whedon cut him off. “It feels like I’m taking notes right now,” Whedon told him, according to The Hollywood Reporter, “and I don’t like taking notes from anybody — not even Robert Downey Jr.”

    (Source)

    Ray Fisher's issue also extended beyond Whedon, in that he was being enabled by higher-ups and etc, etc. Whedon was just the face of the ass that was his treatment by DC films when Snyder was gone. The Hollywood Reporter article points to one specific instance of that:
    ...

    The tension only escalated when the issue of having Cyborg say “booyah” arose. That phrase had become a signature of the character thanks to the animated Teen Titans shows, but the character had never said it in the comics or in the original script. Fisher says that Johns had approached Snyder about including the line, but the director didn’t want any catchphrases. He managed the situation by putting the word on some signs in his version of the film, as an Easter egg. But Johns’ rep says the entire studio believed the booyah line was “a fun moment of synergy.”

    Fisher says he doesn’t see the word in itself as an issue, but he thought it played differently in a live-action film than the animated series. And he thought of Black characters in pop culture with defining phrases: Gary Coleman’s “Whatchoo talkin’ ’bout, Willis?”; Jimmie Walker’s “Dy-no-mite!” As no one else in the film had a catchphrase, he says, “It seemed weird to have the only Black character say that.”

    ...

    The characterization that was left and/or "added", was the issue. Not that it matters because Whedon it was an open-secret that Whedon wasn't what he seemed and now it's not so secret anymore. You would also need to see the issue from the offended parties' perspective here and you either don't or have willingly chosen to dismiss it via the "he's the racist" route. IDK.

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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    the main stream narrative.

    So the thing that people are discussing primarily, the new piece of news, is an interview with Whedon. It is literally his words that are being judged. Not what any "narrative" says about him. Except, perhaps, for what we can glean from the narrative *he* chooses to present.

    Rhesus PositivedennisH3KnucklesDjiemAegeriAndy JoeDemonStacey
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    the main stream narrative.

    So the thing that people are discussing primarily, the new piece of news, is an interview with Whedon. It is literally his words that are being judged. Not what any "narrative" says about him. Except, perhaps, for what we can glean from the narrative *he* chooses to present.

    That's really unfair. If you want to call him a misogynist douchebag just because his actual literal words sound like something a misogynist douchebag would say then... wait, what was I saying again?

    H3KnucklesAegeriAndy JoeDemonStacey
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Nashmite wrote: »
    the main stream narrative.

    So the thing that people are discussing primarily, the new piece of news, is an interview with Whedon. It is literally his words that are being judged. Not what any "narrative" says about him. Except, perhaps, for what we can glean from the narrative *he* chooses to present.

    That's really unfair. If you want to call him a misogynist douchebag just because his actual literal words sound like something a misogynist douchebag would say then... wait, what was I saying again?

    Like lobsterdaddy Peterson, whatever bad thing you see in Whedon's words is totally not what he was actually saying.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

    dennisAegeri
  • Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Nashmite wrote: »
    Gonna stick with the "dummy-head" thing, huh? I guess, if that's working for you. I've looked for any actual rebuttals, but it seems nobody has anything. Just a lot of "Reeeeee!" Don't get me wrong; I love a good "Reeeeeee!" Lifts the spirit.

    As someone on the autism spectrum I am going to have to demand that you apologize for this language.

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    Andy Joe wrote: »
    Nashmite wrote: »
    Gonna stick with the "dummy-head" thing, huh? I guess, if that's working for you. I've looked for any actual rebuttals, but it seems nobody has anything. Just a lot of "Reeeeee!" Don't get me wrong; I love a good "Reeeeeee!" Lifts the spirit.

    As someone on the autism spectrum I am going to have to demand that you apologize for this language.

    Huh, I did not know about this connection. Never used the phrase myself, but I'd seen it around the internet. Thanks for the heads up. Don't know who this tweeter is, but this was the top google search result I got.

    H3Knuckles on
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  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    Geth, kick @Nashmite from the thread

    el_vicio
  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Affirmative DJ Eebs. @Nashmite banned from this thread.

  • Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Andy Joe wrote: »
    Nashmite wrote: »
    Gonna stick with the "dummy-head" thing, huh? I guess, if that's working for you. I've looked for any actual rebuttals, but it seems nobody has anything. Just a lot of "Reeeeee!" Don't get me wrong; I love a good "Reeeeeee!" Lifts the spirit.

    As someone on the autism spectrum I am going to have to demand that you apologize for this language.

    Huh, I did not know about this connection. Never used the phrase myself, but I'd seen it around the internet. Thanks for the heads up. Don't know who this tweeter is, but this was the top google search result I got.

    Yes.

    If you've ever seen anyone refer to "autistic screeching" it's the same concept.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Nashmite wrote: »
    the main stream narrative.

    So the thing that people are discussing primarily, the new piece of news, is an interview with Whedon. It is literally his words that are being judged. Not what any "narrative" says about him. Except, perhaps, for what we can glean from the narrative *he* chooses to present.

    That's really unfair. If you want to call him a misogynist douchebag just because his actual literal words sound like something a misogynist douchebag would say then... wait, what was I saying again?

    Like lobsterdaddy Peterson, whatever bad thing you see in Whedon's words is totally not what he was actually saying.
    “When I say a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that’s all.”

    dennisel_vicio
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    “When I say a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that’s all.”

    One of my all-time favorite quotes.

    Another I think of often (though it doesn't 100% apply here, it's still somewhat relevant):
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. -- Nineteen eight-four.

    dennis on
    V1mel_vicio
  • shadowysea07shadowysea07 Registered User regular
    when did humpty dumpty ever meet alice?

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    when did humpty dumpty ever meet alice?

    In the book Through The Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll, the sequel to Alice In Wonderland.

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    H3KnucklesV1m
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    when did humpty dumpty ever meet alice?

    In the second book, Through the Looking-Glass.

    TofystedethH3Knuckles
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