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[Webcomics] What are they Worth to you?

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The ethics I couldn't give less of a shit about because it's a comic made by the company that owns the stupid screenshot.

    It looks like dogshit. And in this particular instance, looks exactly like a traced Greg Land porn cover.

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Tracing can be a powerful tool in an (especially new) artists repertoire as a means to progress but it should never be used as anything but practice.

    Tracing a movie frame is right on the borderline of what I would consider unethical.

    So would you say that tracing is a pathway to success some consider to be unethical?

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Well yeah, but the problem is being bad at choosing what to trace, not the ethics of tracing it

    You should read some licensed comics. You would notice in literally two seconds that doing just regular art interpretation of live action characters is 100% preferable to tracing. Tracing is ugly, lifeless, and unpleasant to look at.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I happen to agree with you but also that's entirely a matter of personal taste

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  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    milski wrote: »
    Well yeah, but the problem is being bad at choosing what to trace, not the ethics of tracing it

    You should read some licensed comics. You would notice in literally two seconds that doing just regular art interpretation of live action characters is 100% preferable to tracing. Tracing is ugly, lifeless, and unpleasant to look at.

    I mean, sure. That panel looks awful and tracing probably winds up looking awful a lot of the time. But I started talking about the ethics of it, and when your job is literally to plagiarize everything the ethics of tracing seem a lot more favorable.

    Like, I'm not saying companies act ethically or make good decisions, but I'm not really sure there's a strong ethical argument against "the people who owned star wars commissioned you to make a bunch of tracings of Star Wars and slap them into a comic."

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Well yeah, but the problem is being bad at choosing what to trace, not the ethics of tracing it

    You should read some licensed comics. You would notice in literally two seconds that doing just regular art interpretation of live action characters is 100% preferable to tracing. Tracing is ugly, lifeless, and unpleasant to look at.

    I mean, sure. That panel looks awful and tracing probably winds up looking awful a lot of the time. But I started talking about the ethics of it, and when your job is literally to plagiarize everything the ethics of tracing seem a lot more favorable.

    Like, I'm not saying companies act ethically or make good decisions, but I'm not really sure there's a strong ethical argument against "the people who owned star wars commissioned you to make a bunch of tracings of Star Wars and slap them into a comic."

    I don't think tracing is ever in Land's job description, that's just the shitty kind of work he provides. Very few of the other artists on the same line of Star Wars comics trace.

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  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Well yeah, but the problem is being bad at choosing what to trace, not the ethics of tracing it

    You should read some licensed comics. You would notice in literally two seconds that doing just regular art interpretation of live action characters is 100% preferable to tracing. Tracing is ugly, lifeless, and unpleasant to look at.

    I mean, sure. That panel looks awful and tracing probably winds up looking awful a lot of the time. But I started talking about the ethics of it, and when your job is literally to plagiarize everything the ethics of tracing seem a lot more favorable.

    Like, I'm not saying companies act ethically or make good decisions, but I'm not really sure there's a strong ethical argument against "the people who owned star wars commissioned you to make a bunch of tracings of Star Wars and slap them into a comic."

    I don't think tracing is ever in Land's job description, that's just the shitty kind of work he provides. Very few of the other artists on the same line of Star Wars comics trace.

    It might not be in his job description, but there's also no way he is being commissioned for this stuff without the understanding he's tracing stuff and that is apparently acceptable for the people paying for the work. It might be lazy, ugly, and devoid of artistic merit, but if the client knowingly wants to pay for that, sure, whatever.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    Gustav wrote: »
    Someone, somewhere must have done a great job translating actor faces to realistic comic art but I haven't seen it.

    they are out there. just not on a monthly book.

    Phil Noto did good star wars actor faces. But I think he mostly did covers, I think.

    He seems to have the market cornered for actor/model like character faces looking straight at you from the page.

    honovere on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Tracing can be a powerful tool in an (especially new) artists repertoire as a means to progress but it should never be used as anything but practice.

    Tracing a movie frame is right on the borderline of what I would consider unethical.

    So would you say that tracing is a pathway to success some consider to be unethical?

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Adam Hughes is rather famous for doing good likenesses that aren't just tracing.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

    He might have seen him in the comic at some point, maybe camera footage or something

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

    The particular comic series has Luke attempt to throw hands with Vader after the death star in before hot. It does not end well and hes only saved by Han driving an ATAT through the

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  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Proud Father House GardenerRegistered User regular
    I'm not convinced there's even an ethical argument against tracing art and making new art outside of practice,
    outside of a extremely narrow 20th century copywrite legalism.

    More to say about the ethics of what you choose to copy than the act of copying itself.

    trace a murder victim's photo into a NFT

    Trace a persons work to use to compete within the same media and industry, without reference.

    Trace a blockbuster film into a comic scene

    Trace a celeb into a painting you intend to sell or put in a gallery

    All very different ethical scenarios which actual ethics that have nothing to do with tracing.

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

    There is actually a confrontation between Luke and Vader in the comics before this. It includes this great line:

    NtOGb.png

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Vader doesn't even need the saber, at that point in time he can just Force Choke someone who can't wield the Force well enough to stop him.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

    There is actually a confrontation between Luke and Vader in the comics before this. It includes this great line:

    NtOGb.png

    Now my question is was this written before or after Batman Beyond?
    Batman: You killed my father.
    Blight: ...Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    My bigger issue with that panel is that Vader is apparently remembering something that never happened. He never saw Luke with a lightsaber until Cloud City.

    I mean, the original "NO!" moment after he killed Kenobi seems like a better choice.

    There is actually a confrontation between Luke and Vader in the comics before this. It includes this great line:

    NtOGb.png

    Now my question is was this written before or after Batman Beyond?
    Batman: You killed my father.
    Blight: ...Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?

    Long after.

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  • ElaroElaro Threadkiller, Harbinger of the Lock GodsRegistered User regular
    I think the question of the ethics of tracing is more a question of professional ethics than actual harm? Like the ethics question of "Is it okay for an engineer to get paid the same price for the same work by two different clients?" It's like... "put in the artistic effort that you're paid for", I guess?

    Of course, in this case, this guy's working for Disney, a known exploiter of professionals, so minimal effort for maximum pay is good praxis, so I have no complaints about this particular instance.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Speaking of, is Disney still refusing to pay the royalties to EU authors for EU books those authors wrote which Disney continues to sell?

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  • Andy JoeAndy Joe The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
  • AlanF5AlanF5 Registered User regular
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  • statlerstatler Registered User regular

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular


    May 15, 2002 / Workplace tendencies / alt-text: We are not sure if this is a problem https://t.co/52u6CAn0Lx

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
  • JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    I think it's sweet of Gorton to visit his wife at school after a long day catching fish sticks on the open sea.

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  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    what a strange way to wrap up this story, which ultimately felt like the crux of the conflict was Ian and Helen's conversation that we didn't actually get to see

    like I guess we'll spend the rest of the week recapping the ending with Mary? but i doubt there's much more to it from here

    maybe we can retcon Wilbur back into the ocean in june

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited May 15
    Brainleech wrote: »

    starting that off with a Camus quote is a weird choice

    is the bending heart the teen heartthrob would wanted to throb her heart?

    Depressperado on
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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited May 15
    Brolo wrote: »

    May 15, 2002 / Workplace tendencies / alt-text: We are not sure if this is a problem https://t.co/52u6CAn0Lx

    Beef called it Rays drinking killed the strip

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Brainleech wrote: »

    Dropping a Camus quote?

    In my Mary Worth?

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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    New Oglaf is finally up, very NSFW. Honestly, that one guy was right for the majority of wars.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Make sure you click through to the second page, it's a two-parter!

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This discussion has been closed.