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Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker! 6.1 releasing April 12th

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Posts

  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    DRK doesn't need gutted like SMN was. No job needs that.

    Just because you don't enjoy how a job plays doesn't mean it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

    DRK maybe needs some adjustments but the idea the class needs trashed and essentially replaced like SMN was is asinine.

    If you don't like the class there's 3 other tanks you can play.

    X22wmuF.jpg
    BahamutZEROMidniteShenl742
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    gutted of what

    destroyah87
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    turtleant wrote: »
    DRK doesn't need gutted like SMN was. No job needs that.

    Just because you don't enjoy how a job plays doesn't mean it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

    DRK maybe needs some adjustments but the idea the class needs trashed and essentially replaced like SMN was is asinine.

    If you don't like the class there's 3 other tanks you can play.

    DRK was massively rebuilt. It's just that it happened in stages, with parts of its old kit doled out to other jobs.

    In Heavensward, the job had a power stance (Darkside) which was maintained by a constant drain of MP. Dark Arts cost a chunk of MP and upgraded or altered certain abilities. Some of them gained potency, and some gained new effects, such as Abyssal Drain's HP drain. The job's whole deal was to use Dark Arts for extra power, without actually hitting 0 MP and losing Darkside. It also had a soft Parry/Evasion focus, back when the game used Evasion as a mechanic. Dark Dance boosted evasion, and DRK had 2 special abilities that could be used after a dodge; Low Blow and Reprisal.

    Just about all of that is gone, now. Darkside is still the name of the job's ATK buff, but it's obtained by spending a set chunk of MP on Edge of Shadow or Flood of Shadow, and can't be lost by losing too much MP; only by forgetting to use it for a while. All the Parry/Evasion stuff is gone. Gunbreaker now has Camouflage as a version of Dark Dance, and both Low Blow and Reprisal no longer have requirements and are available to all Tank jobs. Dark Arts alterations are no longer a thing either. Dark Mind, Abyssal Drain, and Carve & Spit have something like their full effects from the buff always. Edge and Flood are basically just the potency-boost effect of Dark Arts, folded into a single OGCD attack instead of buffing a later move.

    We don't have DRK in its prior form anymore, or even a uniquely DRK job. The job's offensive gimmick from Stormblood onward is literally just the same as WAR's, but WAR has a fancy finisher move to it now, so it's not even like, as interesting as the thing we're comparing it to. The job lost its identity in stages, and now I don't know what its unique selling point is from a gameplay perspective.

    If we're gonna have 4 tanks, we should have 4 tanks. I want us to have WAR, PLD, DRK, and GNB, not WAR, PLD, WAR, and GNB.

    Enlong on
    destroyah87
  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Basically everything the class used to do and replaced with a whole new thing? I don't understand how this needs explained.

    X22wmuF.jpg
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    Yeah. Between HW and SHB, the job was removed of everything it used to do and replaced with a whole old (or at least, current and already established) thing. DRK should be DRK, not WAR with some cosmetic differences. PLD and GNB don't have this problem; their unique gimmicks (in the offense department, at least) aren't comparable to the other tank jobs.

    There's a point where a job's current design philosophy just isn't working for it, and while that's debatable, I believe DRK is there. And I've enjoyed it since HW.

    Enlong on
    destroyah87
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    summoner was massively improved and I'd welcome that kind of change over what drk is now because drk is completely without any sort of theme mechanics besides "mash some ogcds in your burst window then 1-2-3 for 50 seconds"

    destroyah87
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Yeah and that's another thing. It's not objectively true that a job is better off staying to what it currently is in all cases. With SMN in particular, the job was torn between two identities: a mage using DOTs, and a mage focused on big summon attacks. They struck a sort of balance in Heavensward, but the job had been drifting apart from its two focuses and getting really messy in the process. I feel that they really had to pick one course or the other. And you'll never get a consensus on which was the better path to take. Switching over to a more complex and interesting version of the DOT focus would also have been a massive change. A concession I'll give is that they really should bring back a DOT-focused job. But I think it shouldn't have been Summoner in the first place.

    All of which is to say that sometimes a big change is necessary. But it's gonna be a big mess getting people to agree on what that point is.

    destroyah87
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I don't think "Summoner is better now" is going to be a compelling argument to turtleant, but Dark Knight is not Summoner.

    BahamutZERO
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    Enlong wrote: »
    Yeah and that's another thing. It's not objectively true that a job is better off staying to what it currently is in all cases. With SMN in particular, the job was torn between two identities: a mage using DOTs, and a mage focused on big summon attacks. They struck a sort of balance in Heavensward, but the job had been drifting apart from its two focuses and getting really messy in the process. I feel that they really had to pick one course or the other. And you'll never get a consensus on which was the better path to take. Switching over to a more complex and interesting version of the DOT focus would also have been a massive change. A concession I'll give is that they really should bring back a DOT-focused job. But I think it shouldn't have been Summoner in the first place.

    All of which is to say that sometimes a big change is necessary. But it's gonna be a big mess getting people to agree on what that point is.

    Honestly, I never had a problem with the "two identities" thing for SMN. It was pretty obvious to me from the start that the job was meant as kind of an analog to WoW's Warlock, which also relied on pets and DoTs. But then again, the emphasis on pets kind of fell out for Affliction and Destruction, and DoTs fell out for Demonology, so I guess the dislike for both is fairly universal.
    admanb wrote: »
    I don't think "Summoner is better now" is going to be a compelling argument to turtleant, but Dark Knight is not Summoner.

    Yeah, as someone who liked old SMN, and likes DRK, I'm kind of iffy on the idea of DRK needing a massive overhaul.

    Then again, if I don't like a hypothetical new DRK, I can fall back on GNB, whereas I'm still unsure what to play as my main caster.

    Zython on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I like dots but they were hardly a job feature from HW onwards. ARR is the only time summoner really had to manage its dots besides throwing them up once every 30s, and not even that once tridisaster because what it was

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    In HW, I felt like it was the most balanced between the two. You wanted to use your powerful Bahamut form to put up the strongest DOTs you could, and then start blasting withe verything else.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Honestly, I think Dark Arts as a stance would work fine - it's when it was a oGCD before every damned attack that it was an issue.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    destroyah87
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    A brief recap of the Endwalker MSQ:

    EchoDonnictonCormac
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    I waited with the new raids for the new week, because of bad experiences in the past with trying to beat mechanics on a weekend. So now I'm actually kinda hyped to blast through P1-P4 on my tank.

    I also think I'm going to hit 90 MIN (and be able to level my retainer to 90 as well) and WHM this week, so that would end most of my leveling. There's still so much content to do, but I'll be glad with this stuff out of the way.
    My weekly planning is now:
    to hit cap on the highest level tomestones through A-train,
    do weekly custom deliveries to slowly level my DoHs and BTN,
    do Wondrous Tails for resources and leveling RPR,
    do P1-P4 for gear

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    SabreMau wrote: »
    A brief recap of the Endwalker MSQ:

    am ded

  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    So I've been wondering this since I beat Endwalker...

    (Endwalker Final Boss Spoiler!)
    Why is the song for the final boss's first phase "Beef Soft Tacos"? Isn't that song for Weapons?

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    Lars wrote: »
    So I've been wondering this since I beat Endwalker...

    (Endwalker Final Boss Spoiler!)
    Why is the song for the final boss's first phase "Beef Soft Tacos"? Isn't that song for Weapons?
    it's a medley going through all the last boss themes, so it starts with ultima weapon

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
    Midnitedestroyah87AldoNeveronSkeithTransporter
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    So I've been wondering this since I beat Endwalker...

    (Endwalker Final Boss Spoiler!)
    Why is the song for the final boss's first phase "Beef Soft Tacos"? Isn't that song for Weapons?
    it's a medley going through all the last boss themes, so it starts with ultima weapon
    Ah, I must have zoned out with the music and not noticed the other parts until the transition to phase 2.

    BahamutZEROEcho
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Yeah the first part is the only bit you can hear before you have to concentrate on the fight

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I didn't really notice the music because when my focus is on visually avoiding mechanics everything else just doesn't exist to my senses

  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    I beat the main questline yesterday!

    Also I'm still suck in isolation over on Faerie.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Beat first tier of the level 90 raids with zero wipes. I died twice throughout all 4 fights, but once was because someone didn't do their part in P4. Got 2 new rings out of it.
    The bit where you have to eat the tether of another role. I grabbed one, but then no one cleared mine. *splat*

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I didn't really notice the music because when my focus is on visually avoiding mechanics everything else just doesn't exist to my senses
    On my first time through, I had to wait in queue long enough that I got to hear the whole track loop at least once. Also I have BGM set to 100 and everything else turned down so it doesn't get in the way of the music anyway.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    you know I expected chainsaw to basically be drill except with a saw blade and a whirrrrr. the actual animation is a little disappointing

  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    So I've been wondering this since I beat Endwalker...

    (Endwalker Final Boss Spoiler!)
    Why is the song for the final boss's first phase "Beef Soft Tacos"? Isn't that song for Weapons?
    it's a medley going through all the last boss themes, so it starts with ultima weapon
    It starts with Worm's Tail, that's the bit with you riding Zenos :winky:

    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited February 8
    Lars wrote: »
    So I've been wondering this since I beat Endwalker...

    (Endwalker Final Boss Spoiler!)
    Why is the song for the final boss's first phase "Beef Soft Tacos"? Isn't that song for Weapons?
    it's a medley going through all the last boss themes, so it starts with ultima weapon
    It starts with Worm's Tail, that's the bit with you riding Zenos :winky:
    oh you're right, I guess that's allowed since he's participating and all. Then it does a quick refrain of the FF main theme then launches into beef soft tacos. In fact it doesn't even do the Shadowbringers theme, goes from HW theme/Thordan to Shinryu then FF refrain and back to Ultima Weapon.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    it absolutely does do Invincible, hades boss theme

    SYhhzZG.jpg?2?8605
  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    there's like a whole section of the song that's that

    SYhhzZG.jpg?2?8605
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    you're right, I missed it

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    the gnb rotation is definitely a little more complex, but man does it feel like you are swinging a cannon attached to a sword around now

  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    How long do I have to play before I stop getting tripped up by references to "BLM"

  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    I don't think that will ever happen.

  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    How long do I have to play before I stop getting tripped up by references to "BLM"

    Just wait till the DNCs start showing up

    X22wmuF.jpg
    BahamutZEROMidnite
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    DNC sometimes partners with BLM, but not always

    Skeith
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    How long do I have to play before I stop getting tripped up by references to "BLM"

    Just wait till the DNCs start showing up

    The DNC doesn't support BLM because the latter's cast times are too slow.

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    Steam: pazython
  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Zython wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »
    How long do I have to play before I stop getting tripped up by references to "BLM"

    Just wait till the DNCs start showing up

    The DNC doesn't support BLM because the latter's cast times are too slow.
    Jokes aside...

    See, you'd think, but hextuplecast and a SpS focus actually makes the opener pretty fast. It's lower on the priority list than its raw damage would indicate, but it's still up there. It's below SAM and RPR/MNK, but it's in the big blob of non-ranged DPS in terms of the priority list. If you have the choice between e.g. BLM and DRG, either is a good option.

    The issue isn't that the BLM has too slow cast times, it's that the focus on SpS means that they have lower Crit (and critical damage multiplier) and thus get smaller benefit from Devilment. They're some of the best partners outside burst windows but not fantastic within them, basically.

    (There *might* also be some cursed theories flying around about Dark Knight burst dance partners, followed by using Tillana to rebuff the DPS you're normally partnered with, but I honestly don't know where that burst window ranks.)


    but anyways uhhh the DNC supports uncle SAM over BLM, did I do this right

    BahamutZERO
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    Neveron wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »
    How long do I have to play before I stop getting tripped up by references to "BLM"

    Just wait till the DNCs start showing up

    The DNC doesn't support BLM because the latter's cast times are too slow.
    Jokes aside...

    See, you'd think, but hextuplecast and a SpS focus actually makes the opener pretty fast. It's lower on the priority list than its raw damage would indicate, but it's still up there. It's below SAM and RPR/MNK, but it's in the big blob of non-ranged DPS in terms of the priority list. If you have the choice between e.g. BLM and DRG, either is a good option.

    The issue isn't that the BLM has too slow cast times, it's that the focus on SpS means that they have lower Crit (and critical damage multiplier) and thus get smaller benefit from Devilment. They're some of the best partners outside burst windows but not fantastic within them, basically.

    (There *might* also be some cursed theories flying around about Dark Knight burst dance partners, followed by using Tillana to rebuff the DPS you're normally partnered with, but I honestly don't know where that burst window ranks.)


    but anyways uhhh the DNC supports uncle SAM over BLM, did I do this right

    A little sweaty, but the spirit’s there.

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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I wasn't very hot on the Radiant Maiming set, but the chestpiece plus what I happened to have glamoured looks pretty dapper.
    tnehqxs5v7fv.png

    Midnitedestroyah87CormacAldoJaysonFourturtleantSkeithDonnicton
  • DidgeridooDidgeridoo Registered User regular
    My previous raiding group asked me to rejoin, which is very cool. But my damage is not great. I gotta work on that!

    I'm taking myself back to Reaper preschool, practicing my rotation and all that jazz. My raid leader made me a macro to play danger bongos when Death's Design is about to expire, which is actually super dang helpful. I'll claw my way to being a halfway decent raider yet, so help me Zodiark

    MadicanBahamutZERO
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