I really liked this! If you are looking for multiversal stuff, I think Everything Everywhere All at Once was a better movie, but that is also one of my favorite movies of all time, so I wasn't really expecting anything like that.
I thought Cumberbatch was fantastic, everyone was doing good work actually. Loved how much Raimi just got to do his thing.
I very much doubt she is dead. She's stupidly powerful so she could have easily survived and I mean, she's just a great character and Elizabeth Olsen kills it. I don't see why Marvel wouldn't want more of Wanda in future stuff.
I actually think it's the reason they killed the variant Captain Marvel in the weird underwhelming way they did, to set a precedent that crazy Infinity tier supers can die by smush?
Maybe?
But Wandavision also implied that maybe something something with Maria in the time between Captain Marvel and Infinity War, that is unclear, but lead to her dying, but also whatever was going on had a side effect of leaving Monica fundamentally changed at a cellular level, that presumably also had effected Maria.
Maria as Marvel/Photon/Whoever (did they actually specifically name her as Captain Marvel in this movie, or was it just implied by her outfit? I genuinely don't remember), might simply been a shade of Carol, in regards to power level.
Because, between her visible power levels in Captain Marvel, and Endgame, What if? had two variants of Carol that were casually getting blown through mountains, knocked across the planet, and literally blowing through a planet, all of which would indicate that being crushed by a statue was not even remotely in the cards as a threat to Captain Marvel, except maybe getting some dirt on her costume.
It was easily the weakest death of the Illuminati, given the implication of their powers; while they all got offed pretty trivially, Maria's death didn't really make sense if she was supposed to be fully Captain Marvel and equal to 616's (and a few others based on What if?) Danvers. Everyone else had a character fitting end, and had their own powers turned against them (or their own mythology turned against them with Carter; she had the problem of both being the least "super" of all of them, and saying the line that was immediately going to be turned ironic. Also, you know, dying exactly like Zombie Steve in What If, and I think that was clearly intentional.), but Maria was just..."well, she needs to die so we know how strong Wanda is, so, even though this is a character that can take a punch from a god that can break a planet, I guess a statue is good enough".
Meh. The movie tried to do too much, and at some points was basically a speed run through ideas that could have had a whole movie to flesh out, and it would have probably been good. All the stuff that happened would have been far better served if the whole story had become its own trilogy. But I also think that all things considered, Wanda was completely unnecessary for the story they were trying to tell, and introducing the multiverse to the MCU, and honestly I think having her be the focus (let alone the villain, which is a whole different problem I have with it), took too much time away from a proper introduction and inclusion of America into the story, actually building a relationship between her and Strange, that could have been paid off at the end vs any multiversal threat, including the demonic forces they brought up at the start of the movie and then immediately dropped. Really, it wouldn't have mattered too much, since the resolution would have ultimately still been the same (America gaining the confidence to use her powers, and Strange accepting he isn't, and can't, always be in control, and he's stronger when he works with others). All we really got of the "multiverse" in a movie with "multiverse" in the title, was a montage, a single universe with any attention, and then a third where it was all collapsing because reasons.
The specific plot points of the movie, and the use of some stuff, bothers me, but the further away from seeing it, I think the largest problem with it that keeps striking me, is how...unimportant the entire story felt. Absolutely, down the road, there'll likely be other movies or shows that tie things together and in the end might ultimately be far more important than it feels right now, but at this specific moment, I just have this sense of "nothing's actually changed, and this didn't really introduce anything we weren't already introduced to, even from the D+ shows". I know a lot of that is just personal disappointment that this movie wasn't what I wanted it to be, and I'm making no claims that it was a bad movie, or that what it did, it didn't do well. But I also think it's perfectly legitimate to simply find it "meh" because even if my expectations were too high, or even unrealistic, it's still disappointment all the same. Introducing something as big and important as the multiverse shouldn't also feel like it would be incredibly trivial for them to just never bring any of it up again if they don't want. I was just hoping for something game changing, and I guess time will tell if it actually is.
I very much doubt she is dead. She's stupidly powerful so she could have easily survived and I mean, she's just a great character and Elizabeth Olsen kills it. I don't see why Marvel wouldn't want more of Wanda in future stuff.
I actually think it's the reason they killed the variant Captain Marvel in the weird underwhelming way they did, to set a precedent that crazy Infinity tier supers can die by smush?
Maybe?
But Wandavision also implied that maybe something something with Maria in the time between Captain Marvel and Infinity War, that is unclear, but lead to her dying, but also whatever was going on had a side effect of leaving Monica fundamentally changed at a cellular level, that presumably also had effected Maria.
Maria as Marvel/Photon/Whoever (did they actually specifically name her as Captain Marvel in this movie, or was it just implied by her outfit? I genuinely don't remember), might simply been a shade of Carol, in regards to power level.
Because, between her visible power levels in Captain Marvel, and Endgame, What if? had two variants of Carol that were casually getting blown through mountains, knocked across the planet, and literally blowing through a planet, all of which would indicate that being crushed by a statue was not even remotely in the cards as a threat to Captain Marvel, except maybe getting some dirt on her costume.
It was easily the weakest death of the Illuminati, given the implication of their powers; while they all got offed pretty trivially, Maria's death didn't really make sense if she was supposed to be fully Captain Marvel and equal to 616's (and a few others based on What if?) Danvers. Everyone else had a character fitting end, and had their own powers turned against them (or their own mythology turned against them with Carter; she had the problem of both being the least "super" of all of them, and saying the line that was immediately going to be turned ironic. Also, you know, dying exactly like Zombie Steve in What If, and I think that was clearly intentional.), but Maria was just..."well, she needs to die so we know how strong Wanda is, so, even though this is a character that can take a punch from a god that can break a planet, I guess a statue is good enough".
Meh. The movie tried to do too much, and at some points was basically a speed run through ideas that could have had a whole movie to flesh out, and it would have probably been good. All the stuff that happened would have been far better served if the whole story had become its own trilogy. But I also think that all things considered, Wanda was completely unnecessary for the story they were trying to tell, and introducing the multiverse to the MCU, and honestly I think having her be the focus (let alone the villain, which is a whole different problem I have with it), took too much time away from a proper introduction and inclusion of America into the story, actually building a relationship between her and Strange, that could have been paid off at the end vs any multiversal threat, including the demonic forces they brought up at the start of the movie and then immediately dropped. Really, it wouldn't have mattered too much, since the resolution would have ultimately still been the same (America gaining the confidence to use her powers, and Strange accepting he isn't, and can't, always be in control, and he's stronger when he works with others). All we really got of the "multiverse" in a movie with "multiverse" in the title, was a montage, a single universe with any attention, and then a third where it was all collapsing because reasons.
The specific plot points of the movie, and the use of some stuff, bothers me, but the further away from seeing it, I think the largest problem with it that keeps striking me, is how...unimportant the entire story felt. Absolutely, down the road, there'll likely be other movies or shows that tie things together and in the end might ultimately be far more important than it feels right now, but at this specific moment, I just have this sense of "nothing's actually changed, and this didn't really introduce anything we weren't already introduced to, even from the D+ shows". I know a lot of that is just personal disappointment that this movie wasn't what I wanted it to be, and I'm making no claims that it was a bad movie, or that what it did, it didn't do well. But I also think it's perfectly legitimate to simply find it "meh" because even if my expectations were too high, or even unrealistic, it's still disappointment all the same. Introducing something as big and important as the multiverse shouldn't also feel like it would be incredibly trivial for them to just never bring any of it up again if they don't want. I was just hoping for something game changing, and I guess time will tell if it actually is.
I could be wrong but if I remember correctly Captain Marvel's whole deal is being able to absorb energy and use to to power herself up, the more energy you fire at her, the stronger she gets. So she was able to punch massive alien battleships to death in Captain Marvel and Endgame because those massive alien ships were firing back at her. In the Maria/Wanda fight in Doctor Strange you can see her glowy cosmic energy begin to fade by the end of the fight. I guess the implication is that she can't absorb magical energy, so has to run off whatever energy she has stored. So they really did make Captain Marvel into their Superman, weakness to magic and all.
To your last point I suppose the problem with all multiverse stories is how disposable they are, to quote Teal'c "Our universe is the only one of consequence." They can kill off an entire alternate Earth's Avengers equivalent in a single fight to show how high the stakes are, but we'll never be back to that universe to see the fallout of all their premiere superheroes dying, so what does it matter?
The one thing I would have liked is to have seen the same character played by a different actor, just to reinforce the whole "multiverse variants can look different" that Loki and NWH established.
It would also set up that when we do get more X-Men or FF, to not expect those actors to come back.
+3
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Thinking about it more, I am fine with Shuma-Gorath not being in the movie despite the very obvious Shuma-Gorath appearing demon because the villain was Wanda, and to bring in a force like Shuma/Dorm/etc. directly would have distracted from Wanda and her corruption by the darkhold. I think it is better to leave what the Darkhold was whispering to Wanda up to imagination and inference.
I will note that in classic comic book sense, if you don't see a body, then they aren't 'dead.'
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The one thing I would have liked is to have seen the same character played by a different actor, just to reinforce the whole "multiverse variants can look different" that Loki and NWH established.
It would also set up that when we do get more X-Men or FF, to not expect those actors to come back.
I'm actually curious if the Reed we're getting in the Fantastic Four movie will be played by Jim or if that was a fun fan casting thing they did
The one thing I would have liked is to have seen the same character played by a different actor, just to reinforce the whole "multiverse variants can look different" that Loki and NWH established.
It would also set up that when we do get more X-Men or FF, to not expect those actors to come back.
I'm actually curious if the Reed we're getting in the Fantastic Four movie will be played by Jim or if that was a fun fan casting thing they did
Maybe both. Could have been a paid audition.
I liked the casting, so I hope it sticks.
+5
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Also I think that was the first time I've seen stretch effects on a real person that didn't look horrifying.
10 seconds in a movie vs TV series length and budget.
I had gotten the impression they were struggling with artistic interpretation, not budget.
Are fake energy fists more expensive than fleshy ones?
McRhyno on
PSN: ImRyanBurgundy
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It'll look like crap without a lot of work the longer he has to do it.
+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
He even did the head blob effect!! Like the cartoon!! And the X-Men arcade game!!
If only he shouted "XMEN! XMEN!" just like the game me and my friend would have died on the spot
It's too bad we'll never get more of that from him. They waited too long. Well, it was too late when they got the property back so not much they could do, but he was really the perfect actor for the role.
+2
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It's too bad we'll never get more of that from him. They waited too long. Well, it was too late when they got the property back so not much they could do, but he was really the perfect actor for the role.
I am pretty sure Patrick Stewart would be down to play Picard and Xavier until the moment he croaks.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
yeah, but it's getting a continuation season on Disney Plus
PSN: ImRyanBurgundy
0
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I liked the use of the Days of Future Past line:
Just because someone stumbles and loses their path, doesn't mean they're lost forever.
Felt like an especially apt little meta reference.
Oh brilliant
+12
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
yeah, but it's getting a continuation season on Disney Plus
I imagine "X-Men Theme" is already a licensed track from the movies, so they added the 97
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
yeah, but it's getting a continuation season on Disney Plus
I imagine "X-Men Theme" is already a licensed track from the movies, so they added the 97
Sorry, I'm not following. Please elaborate
PSN: ImRyanBurgundy
0
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I also don't think there is enough talk about professor X appearing in his fuckin 90s cartoon yellow hoverchair and having his music stinger be the 90s X-men theme
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
yeah, but it's getting a continuation season on Disney Plus
I imagine "X-Men Theme" is already a licensed track from the movies, so they added the 97
Sorry, I'm not following. Please elaborate
I responded to the wrong person. I was saying that to tomanta. Sorry
are YOU on the beer list?
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I turned on the movie as soon as I realized they introduced a bunch of characters fans would be excited to see for the sole reason of murdering them gruesomely five minutes later. And if they ever do anything with those characters ever again it will make the entire thing fall apart. The MCU is no longer connected if they can just get another version from another universe and tell that story instead.
The whole story being a character assassination didn't help either.
I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about the interconnectedness of the MCU anymore. It was great for the Infinity Saga, but that story's done, and it's exhausting to try to keep up with everything, so I'm just going to pick and choose whatever seems interesting and ignore the rest.
So, I had no issue with the multiverse counterparts being introduced only to be killed. I'm not thinking about the wider implications anymore, that was just a cool bit that was way more gruesome than I expected from a Marvel movie.
Overall I enjoyed the movie. It's nice to see directors really getting to show off their personal style. I don't normally care about magic stuff in the comics, so I went into this one with no real investment, but it basically started at 100 and never let up. I really didn't expect them to full on turn Wanda into a horror movie monster for several bits but it ended up being a fun ride and I'd really like to see Sam Raimi come back for more.
I turned on the movie as soon as I realized they introduced a bunch of characters fans would be excited to see for the sole reason of murdering them gruesomely five minutes later. And if they ever do anything with those characters ever again it will make the entire thing fall apart. The MCU is no longer connected if they can just get another version from another universe and tell that story instead.
Oddly, for me that was the absolute best part of the movie. One of the things they can do is properly show how threatening a character is without having to break their main timeline/continuum anymore.
Also I am pretty sure the Xavier dying in psychic land to a neck snap is a reference to something from the comics or similar.
Doesn't comic wanda have a history of just royally screwing up the universe?
hahaha OH MAN, like yes, very much so.
They are taking the sort of basis of this story from Avengers: Disassembled, where she destroys the avengers (outright killing Vision and Hawkeye). This led to House of M, where she re-wrote the universe to be one in which Mutants were the controlling force of society. Then, when that got restored, she deleted ALL(most, actually) of the mutant population's powers.
Even she did, when your mother's doppleganger attacks your mother it's time to use those powers.
So I'd say they did not. Though until real mother Wanda used her powers to get out of the in between universe I was half assuming she didn't have powers either.
Posts
That is all.
I thought Cumberbatch was fantastic, everyone was doing good work actually. Loved how much Raimi just got to do his thing.
Maybe?
But Wandavision also implied that maybe something something with Maria in the time between Captain Marvel and Infinity War, that is unclear, but lead to her dying, but also whatever was going on had a side effect of leaving Monica fundamentally changed at a cellular level, that presumably also had effected Maria.
Maria as Marvel/Photon/Whoever (did they actually specifically name her as Captain Marvel in this movie, or was it just implied by her outfit? I genuinely don't remember), might simply been a shade of Carol, in regards to power level.
Because, between her visible power levels in Captain Marvel, and Endgame, What if? had two variants of Carol that were casually getting blown through mountains, knocked across the planet, and literally blowing through a planet, all of which would indicate that being crushed by a statue was not even remotely in the cards as a threat to Captain Marvel, except maybe getting some dirt on her costume.
It was easily the weakest death of the Illuminati, given the implication of their powers; while they all got offed pretty trivially, Maria's death didn't really make sense if she was supposed to be fully Captain Marvel and equal to 616's (and a few others based on What if?) Danvers. Everyone else had a character fitting end, and had their own powers turned against them (or their own mythology turned against them with Carter; she had the problem of both being the least "super" of all of them, and saying the line that was immediately going to be turned ironic. Also, you know, dying exactly like Zombie Steve in What If, and I think that was clearly intentional.), but Maria was just..."well, she needs to die so we know how strong Wanda is, so, even though this is a character that can take a punch from a god that can break a planet, I guess a statue is good enough".
Meh. The movie tried to do too much, and at some points was basically a speed run through ideas that could have had a whole movie to flesh out, and it would have probably been good. All the stuff that happened would have been far better served if the whole story had become its own trilogy. But I also think that all things considered, Wanda was completely unnecessary for the story they were trying to tell, and introducing the multiverse to the MCU, and honestly I think having her be the focus (let alone the villain, which is a whole different problem I have with it), took too much time away from a proper introduction and inclusion of America into the story, actually building a relationship between her and Strange, that could have been paid off at the end vs any multiversal threat, including the demonic forces they brought up at the start of the movie and then immediately dropped. Really, it wouldn't have mattered too much, since the resolution would have ultimately still been the same (America gaining the confidence to use her powers, and Strange accepting he isn't, and can't, always be in control, and he's stronger when he works with others). All we really got of the "multiverse" in a movie with "multiverse" in the title, was a montage, a single universe with any attention, and then a third where it was all collapsing because reasons.
The specific plot points of the movie, and the use of some stuff, bothers me, but the further away from seeing it, I think the largest problem with it that keeps striking me, is how...unimportant the entire story felt. Absolutely, down the road, there'll likely be other movies or shows that tie things together and in the end might ultimately be far more important than it feels right now, but at this specific moment, I just have this sense of "nothing's actually changed, and this didn't really introduce anything we weren't already introduced to, even from the D+ shows". I know a lot of that is just personal disappointment that this movie wasn't what I wanted it to be, and I'm making no claims that it was a bad movie, or that what it did, it didn't do well. But I also think it's perfectly legitimate to simply find it "meh" because even if my expectations were too high, or even unrealistic, it's still disappointment all the same. Introducing something as big and important as the multiverse shouldn't also feel like it would be incredibly trivial for them to just never bring any of it up again if they don't want. I was just hoping for something game changing, and I guess time will tell if it actually is.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
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I could be wrong but if I remember correctly Captain Marvel's whole deal is being able to absorb energy and use to to power herself up, the more energy you fire at her, the stronger she gets. So she was able to punch massive alien battleships to death in Captain Marvel and Endgame because those massive alien ships were firing back at her. In the Maria/Wanda fight in Doctor Strange you can see her glowy cosmic energy begin to fade by the end of the fight. I guess the implication is that she can't absorb magical energy, so has to run off whatever energy she has stored. So they really did make Captain Marvel into their Superman, weakness to magic and all.
To your last point I suppose the problem with all multiverse stories is how disposable they are, to quote Teal'c "Our universe is the only one of consequence." They can kill off an entire alternate Earth's Avengers equivalent in a single fight to show how high the stakes are, but we'll never be back to that universe to see the fallout of all their premiere superheroes dying, so what does it matter?
It would also set up that when we do get more X-Men or FF, to not expect those actors to come back.
I will note that in classic comic book sense, if you don't see a body, then they aren't 'dead.'
I'm actually curious if the Reed we're getting in the Fantastic Four movie will be played by Jim or if that was a fun fan casting thing they did
Maybe both. Could have been a paid audition.
I liked the casting, so I hope it sticks.
Funny because they completely ducked it on Ms. Marvel.
I had gotten the impression they were struggling with artistic interpretation, not budget.
Are fake energy fists more expensive than fleshy ones?
I mean, it also was like half a second and not the focus of the frame.
And then the very next instance was of him being spaghettified.
He even did the head blob effect!! Like the cartoon!! And the X-Men arcade game!!
If only he shouted "XMEN! XMEN!" just like the game me and my friend would have died on the spot
I am pretty sure Patrick Stewart would be down to play Picard and Xavier until the moment he croaks.
Interestingly, I think it was labeled in the credits was labeled as X-Men '97 Theme. Which, yeah, that's a show they are doing that will have the same theme but I wonder why that's the one that got the credit.
I think that's just what they are calling that era of X-men cartoons.
yeah, but it's getting a continuation season on Disney Plus
Felt like an especially apt little meta reference.
I imagine "X-Men Theme" is already a licensed track from the movies, so they added the 97
Sorry, I'm not following. Please elaborate
I responded to the wrong person. I was saying that to tomanta. Sorry
They also I think want her to have slightly different powers than another person. I dunno, it's fine.
The whole story being a character assassination didn't help either.
Yes. In at least one instance she just wrote all mutants out of reality.
Which was her solution to fix the universe after she monkey pawed everyone's deepest wishes.
So, I had no issue with the multiverse counterparts being introduced only to be killed. I'm not thinking about the wider implications anymore, that was just a cool bit that was way more gruesome than I expected from a Marvel movie.
Overall I enjoyed the movie. It's nice to see directors really getting to show off their personal style. I don't normally care about magic stuff in the comics, so I went into this one with no real investment, but it basically started at 100 and never let up. I really didn't expect them to full on turn Wanda into a horror movie monster for several bits but it ended up being a fun ride and I'd really like to see Sam Raimi come back for more.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I like larger, longer, over-arching storylines.
Basically what I want is a television series, but the episodes are movies.
Oddly, for me that was the absolute best part of the movie. One of the things they can do is properly show how threatening a character is without having to break their main timeline/continuum anymore.
Also I am pretty sure the Xavier dying in psychic land to a neck snap is a reference to something from the comics or similar.
hahaha OH MAN, like yes, very much so.
They are taking the sort of basis of this story from Avengers: Disassembled, where she destroys the avengers (outright killing Vision and Hawkeye). This led to House of M, where she re-wrote the universe to be one in which Mutants were the controlling force of society. Then, when that got restored, she deleted ALL(most, actually) of the mutant population's powers.
Original:
Forum Battle Picture:
One thing I haven’t seen anyone talk about or ask was about the kids. Do they not have powers in 838?
If they do, 838 Wanda taught them not to use them unsupervised, like a responsible adult. Using powers makes you a target.
So I'd say they did not. Though until real mother Wanda used her powers to get out of the in between universe I was half assuming she didn't have powers either.