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[D&D Discussion] The World's Greatest Boxed Soup(TM)

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Posts

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    he ended up relenting and said "okay sorry I overstepped, lets backtrack, I did do that mechanic earlier, but it is way too punishing: she will do half necrotic half fire so all your guys' fire resist isn't nullified"

    because everyone had been gearing up for this final fight (I'd hope so! we cant beat a CR 26 boss without it!) and having all that be meaningless would have been a heck of a rug pull

    override367 on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I'm incredibly salty because I just spend like 90 minutes ingame in D&D trying to buy a set of efreeti armor, got it, equipped it, attuned it, and someone else asked "what do we know about what kind of offense zariel has?" and the DM said "you guys know from previous research that she does a special kind of fire damage called hellfire that ignores fire resistance and immunity"

    like I'm so upset I just kind of want to walk away from the game for the last 4 hours, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

    just took it off and threw it on the ground ingame because I guess my character is so fucking stupid they'd blow a campaign's worth of savings on armor that is literally worse than what I was wearing before

    for reference, the fight against zariel is the only thing left to do in this campaign

    Could have been worse; We had a player who was a pyromaniacway of tthe elements monk and... well... most of the things in that campaign were basically made of asbestos...

    override367
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Anybody happen to have a list of the best modules produced for DnD on hand? I've been wanting to put together a little collection for myself but most lists online are pretty dire. The same 8 or so books always make the list and frankly a lot of them are pretty bad. The Temple of Elemental Evil is notoriously bad* and while modules like Homlet have a better reputation that's a very limited style and scope. I want to have more paper books to leaf through when I'm bored and more dungeons and encounters to consider stealing for my homebrew stuff.

    *and lets not even mention Tomb of Horrors. Are you kidding me?

    There’s a late 4e boxed adventure based around the deck of many things that I remember being fairly glowingly reviewed. I’ve not played it but do own it and have flicked through it.

    Madness at Gardmore Abbey.

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Nips wrote: »
    That's seems...weird to me. Is that weird?

    Is PF2 not getting the kind of traction Paizo was hoping for, or is this just "There's another big bucket of money just sitting over there"?
    Check the date.
    Anybody happen to have a list of the best modules produced for DnD on hand? I've been wanting to put together a little collection for myself but most lists online are pretty dire. The same 8 or so books always make the list and frankly a lot of them are pretty bad. The Temple of Elemental Evil is notoriously bad* and while modules like Homlet have a better reputation that's a very limited style and scope. I want to have more paper books to leaf through when I'm bored and more dungeons and encounters to consider stealing for my homebrew stuff.

    *and lets not even mention Tomb of Horrors. Are you kidding me?

    There’s a late 4e boxed adventure based around the deck of many things that I remember being fairly glowingly reviewed. I’ve not played it but do own it and have flicked through it.

    Madness at Gardmore Abbey.

    It must be because it was sold out on Amazon when someone else suggested it.

    Quire.jpg
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Makes some amount of sense, it was among some of the last 4e products released, definitely the last Standalone adventure they put out, and it's still highly regarded, along with having a physical Deck of Many Things prop, makes it a nice collector's item in addition to being a cracking good adventure. If you can find a copy of the text somewhere at least, I'd recommend pulling that down cause that'll have what you really want: The description of the Abbey environs and how they've been affected by the deck and the individuals in possession of it's component cards.

    (Personally, I was fortunate enough to win my copy directly from Wizards doing a DMing competition at PAX when it released)

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Drive thru rpg has the pdfs at least.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
    override367Matev
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Makes some amount of sense, it was among some of the last 4e products released, definitely the last Standalone adventure they put out, and it's still highly regarded, along with having a physical Deck of Many Things prop, makes it a nice collector's item in addition to being a cracking good adventure. If you can find a copy of the text somewhere at least, I'd recommend pulling that down cause that'll have what you really want: The description of the Abbey environs and how they've been affected by the deck and the individuals in possession of it's component cards.

    (Personally, I was fortunate enough to win my copy directly from Wizards doing a DMing competition at PAX when it released)

    I have everything from that adventure except for the set of cards, which is a massive bummer. I guess I could get replacements made somehow.

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Matev wrote: »
    Makes some amount of sense, it was among some of the last 4e products released, definitely the last Standalone adventure they put out, and it's still highly regarded, along with having a physical Deck of Many Things prop, makes it a nice collector's item in addition to being a cracking good adventure. If you can find a copy of the text somewhere at least, I'd recommend pulling that down cause that'll have what you really want: The description of the Abbey environs and how they've been affected by the deck and the individuals in possession of it's component cards.

    (Personally, I was fortunate enough to win my copy directly from Wizards doing a DMing competition at PAX when it released)

    I have everything from that adventure except for the set of cards, which is a massive bummer. I guess I could get replacements made somehow.

    I would be highly surprised if there wasn't several different fan-made solutions available at indy shops online.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Jus’ use regular playing cards or tarot cards.

    mrpakuoverride367Thawmus
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Jus’ use regular playing cards or tarot cards.

    Mage the Ascension and/or Awakening has Tarot decks, if you're looking for something more game-y feeling

    Elvenshae
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Spoilered for beating a dead horse.

    ThawmusRhesus PositiveElvenshaegavindelZonugaltzeentchlingMatevDarkPrimusToxDenadaMoridin889A Kobold's Kobold
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    Spoilered for beating a dead horse.

    Feats should be a martial only thing related to this. I want to leap into the clouds.

    ThawmusBrody
  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Just bring back maneuvers from ToB

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
    ThawmusWhelkTox
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    everyone who wants martials to be good, buy A5E player's handbook and just steal the maneuvers

    here's a few
    ITVaa1t.png
    JHt27hb.png
    Kk4feIv.png
    g8U1Wkv.png

    Thawmus
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    everyone who wants martials to be good, buy A5E player's handbook and just steal the maneuvers

    here's a few
    ITVaa1t.png
    JHt27hb.png
    Kk4feIv.png
    g8U1Wkv.png

    Our group is still trying PF2E at the moment but if that turns into a bust and we go back to 5E I'm really going to push A5E, jesus christ.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 11
    Thawmus wrote: »
    everyone who wants martials to be good, buy A5E player's handbook and just steal the maneuvers

    here's a few
    ITVaa1t.png
    JHt27hb.png
    Kk4feIv.png
    g8U1Wkv.png

    Our group is still trying PF2E at the moment but if that turns into a bust and we go back to 5E I'm really going to push A5E, jesus christ.

    I forgot stances (although that's hardly all the maneuvers, theres well over 100 of them, including out of combat maneuvers and a whole host of reactions)
    LJJiEL1.png
    3AxXHNR.png

    in A5E, monks are built entirely around maneuvers, monks can be in more than one stance at a time, all of the monk abilities are just special monk only maneuvers, and they get substantially more maneuver exertion points than everyone else (every martial gets 2x prof exertion dice, fighters pick mastered maneuvers that cost 1 less, monks get a lot more points)

    A monk in A5E can take the brawler subclass who treats improvised weapons as monk weapons and take Farshot Stance and Throwing Stance to huck a tavern chair across town, hit a person, and have it bounce back to them

    override367 on
    ThawmusWhelk
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    capitalism being capitalism

    Whelk
  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    capitalism being capitalism

    Ehh... I... I think that's letting WotC off the hook too quickly here.

    I mean, capitalism is a hellscape that encourages this sort of behavior, but also this is another instance of WotC in particular being a truly terrible company to its employees.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
    webguy20MatevToxThawmusNarbus
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 12
    Zonugal wrote: »
    capitalism being capitalism

    Ehh... I... I think that's letting WotC off the hook too quickly here.

    I mean, capitalism is a hellscape that encourages this sort of behavior, but also this is another instance of WotC in particular being a truly terrible company to its employees.

    I don't think it's letting WOTC off the hook at all, they aren't uniquely terrible, many (most?) employers are horrific. especially to immigrants, female employees, and other marginalized employees. I have horror stories that would turn your stomach

    They might be worse than average for a high profile white collar company though, although *gazes at Ubisoft, Rockstar, Riot, Activision/Blizzard*. We live in a horrible nightmare world where most of the products we consume are produced by monsters

    (but yes, WOTC Is awful)

    the practice of lowballing women is literally standard practice at the last... 3 employers I worked for, by the way, under the umbrella of "you just need to negotiate harder"

    override367 on
    SmrtnikDaenris
  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    capitalism being capitalism

    Ehh... I... I think that's letting WotC off the hook too quickly here.

    I mean, capitalism is a hellscape that encourages this sort of behavior, but also this is another instance of WotC in particular being a truly terrible company to its employees.

    I don't think it's letting WOTC off the hook at all, they aren't uniquely terrible, many (most?) employers are horrific. especially to immigrants, female employees, and other marginalized employees. I have horror stories that would turn your stomach

    They might be worse than average for a high profile white collar company though, although *gazes at Ubisoft, Rockstar, Riot, Activision/Blizzard*. We live in a horrible nightmare world where most of the products we consume are produced by monsters

    (but yes, WOTC Is awful)

    I just think a comment like "capitalism being capitalism" sort of... papers over the incident? Especially when made immediately after the initial post?

    And this is especially compounded because I don't really hear these kinds of stories about other TTRPG companies, heightened by the frequency that these stories seem to always come out regarding WotC.

    In summary my concern is that I think we should be more conscious as a community to throw out larger societal-cultural critiques as they can be interpreted as almost excusing the behavior of a TTRPG company.

    I don't know... I'm sensitive and I...

    I JUST HATE WOTC SO MUCH!

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 12
    Okay

    Well I stopped buying WOTC books a while ago if it makes you feel better

    I would please ask that you not warp what I said into an endorsement for misogynistic business practices

    override367 on
  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Okay

    Well I stopped buying WOTC books a while ago so

    As did I!

    I think the last dollars that WotC got from me were because I purchased Keith Baker's Exploring Eberron via the DM's Guild.

    Definitely considering getting A5E though.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
    override367Thawmus
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Pasio was apparently a nightmare, hopefully after the unionization it's better.

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    Zonugaloverride367ElvenshaeThawmusWhelk
  • Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    I love A5E's manoeuvres but there are some that I just can't see many people taking.

    Like Adamant Mountain 1st degree you can pick 'catch your breath' (i.e. second wind) and 'cleaving swing' so almost every berserker is going to pick those over something like 'heavy stance' where you basically just get an expertise die on strength athletics checks and strength saves (against combat manoeuvres only).

    Got around this by just giving players access to all of the 1st degree manoeuvres of the traditions they've unlocked when they reached 2nd degree, then gave them all of the 2nd degree manoeuvres when they reached 3rd degree, etc.

    Elvenshaeoverride367
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Maneuvers just aren’t that great in a system that does not focus on forced movement.

    Like 4e fighters had “CC or forced movement” and as you went up in level it was “better CC or forced movement”. Which works.

    But in 5e it’s a little iffy

    wbBv3fj.png
    MatevNips
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Yah, A5E seems try to lean into more tactical play, which 5e actively eschewed cause a vocal group of fans got upset that 4e was very difficult (not impossible, but was definitely crafted with the idea you'd have maps and a table to play on) to theater of the mind.

    Not to say I don't mind going in the tactical direction (far from it, I like clear movement, status effects, and martials actually mattering aside from being ablative armor) just there's only so much you can do before you might as well try to figure out how to make another Not!4e heartbreaker.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
    Nips
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    If I was to make a5e today I would basically take 4e and tune up it’s bounded accuracy structure ala with 5e and give it a balance pass.

    I might keep wizards and some prepared casters the same as 5e so that they feel different. But in general the problems with 4e are mechanical or thematic and not structural.

    The thematic issue you cannot get away from. You cannot really make a “deeper 5e system” that retains the feel of 5e. By making it deeper you necessitate the type of fights that will exist make use of that. And you have a hard time having fights that don’t make use of it.

    So if you’re going to have to make a more tactical game why not just… use 4e and then clean it up? Each class gets two strong, one regular, one weak defense and the difference between each tier is 4 or 5. Everything scales with your proficiency bonus to differentiate tiers in accuracy advantage and the primary balancing construction is then HP. (Better powers do more damage and have stronger effects, you get HP/lvl as normal). Things that would give bonuses instead give advantage/disadvantage which doesn’t stack so you don’t have to track so many stacking penalties.

    Boom, fixed.

    wbBv3fj.png
    Nips
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I think there's a lot of stuff that they really broke open in a good way with fifth edition. Just off the top of my head I would keep...

    Subclasses. These things rule. I love the idea of having a mechanical center point that diverges wildly. I disagree with several of the specific choices they made but I definitely keep the concept*.

    Backgrounds. Honestly if I have my way backgrounds become as big a part of the character as your class or your race. I want a scholarly fighter and I want it now.

    Bounded accuracy. There is just a part of my brain that desperately wants any player to die if I throw enough orcs at them.

    I would specifically change....

    Spellcasting. Specifically I don't like that they all work the same. Call Divine magic miracles and make them function differently than arcane. This also makes psionics and easier edition to the game in my opinion.

    Classes. Somebody needs to figure out if classes are supposed to be extremely generic concepts or extremely specific ones because we have a bit of both. Also I'm not sure that warlocks and sorcerers both need to exist. I'm equally dubious about druids being an entire separate class now that subclasses exist.

    And yeah maneuvers or something similar to the things that people have been posting.

    *Specifically I don't think it was the correct choice at all to give sorcerers Metamagic. That's just obviously a wizard thing to me. I know that some people were specifically upset with 4th edition for making sorcerers the blasters and not wizards but not just seems like the obvious choice? Sorcerer's work on a more intuitive level so they can pull out big flashy stuff. They overwhelm you with power. Wizards learn their spells and therefore have to have a greater full understanding of their spellcasting therefore they get meta magic.

    Quire.jpg
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    I can't see it both ways: Wizards have studied magic and can therefore be more creative with its applications, but also most Wizards follow the precise instructions for a spell created. by somebody else, while a Sorcerer's more instinctive usage allows them to be a bit looser with working the magic. A bit like a chemist vs. a cook.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    capitalism being capitalism

    Ehh... I... I think that's letting WotC off the hook too quickly here.

    I mean, capitalism is a hellscape that encourages this sort of behavior, but also this is another instance of WotC in particular being a truly terrible company to its employees.

    WotC is owned by Hasbro which means that they're basically a sub department of the board game version of EA. Take it as a blessing that this is the least bad thing they could be doing.

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I think there's a lot of stuff that they really broke open in a good way with fifth edition. Just off the top of my head I would keep...

    Subclasses. These things rule. I love the idea of having a mechanical center point that diverges wildly. I disagree with several of the specific choices they made but I definitely keep the concept*.

    Backgrounds. Honestly if I have my way backgrounds become as big a part of the character as your class or your race. I want a scholarly fighter and I want it now.

    Bounded accuracy. There is just a part of my brain that desperately wants any player to die if I throw enough orcs at them.

    I would specifically change....

    Spellcasting. Specifically I don't like that they all work the same. Call Divine magic miracles and make them function differently than arcane. This also makes psionics and easier edition to the game in my opinion.

    Classes. Somebody needs to figure out if classes are supposed to be extremely generic concepts or extremely specific ones because we have a bit of both. Also I'm not sure that warlocks and sorcerers both need to exist. I'm equally dubious about druids being an entire separate class now that subclasses exist.

    And yeah maneuvers or something similar to the things that people have been posting.

    *Specifically I don't think it was the correct choice at all to give sorcerers Metamagic. That's just obviously a wizard thing to me. I know that some people were specifically upset with 4th edition for making sorcerers the blasters and not wizards but not just seems like the obvious choice? Sorcerer's work on a more intuitive level so they can pull out big flashy stuff. They overwhelm you with power. Wizards learn their spells and therefore have to have a greater full understanding of their spellcasting therefore they get meta magic.

    4E had subclasses (in the form of Paragon Paths) and backgrounds.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
    ElvenshaeMatev
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Pasio was apparently a nightmare, hopefully after the unionization it's better.

    Yeah, I'm hoping so. At the very least, Paizo is a bit of an open book whereas I feel it is safe to assume their nightmare occurs pretty much everywhere else, and with a union I have some hope that things will be addressed beyond a company letter saying they promise to be better.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I think there's a lot of stuff that they really broke open in a good way with fifth edition. Just off the top of my head I would keep...

    Subclasses. These things rule. I love the idea of having a mechanical center point that diverges wildly. I disagree with several of the specific choices they made but I definitely keep the concept*.

    Backgrounds. Honestly if I have my way backgrounds become as big a part of the character as your class or your race. I want a scholarly fighter and I want it now.

    Bounded accuracy. There is just a part of my brain that desperately wants any player to die if I throw enough orcs at them.

    I would specifically change....

    Spellcasting. Specifically I don't like that they all work the same. Call Divine magic miracles and make them function differently than arcane. This also makes psionics and easier edition to the game in my opinion.

    Classes. Somebody needs to figure out if classes are supposed to be extremely generic concepts or extremely specific ones because we have a bit of both. Also I'm not sure that warlocks and sorcerers both need to exist. I'm equally dubious about druids being an entire separate class now that subclasses exist.

    And yeah maneuvers or something similar to the things that people have been posting.

    *Specifically I don't think it was the correct choice at all to give sorcerers Metamagic. That's just obviously a wizard thing to me. I know that some people were specifically upset with 4th edition for making sorcerers the blasters and not wizards but not just seems like the obvious choice? Sorcerer's work on a more intuitive level so they can pull out big flashy stuff. They overwhelm you with power. Wizards learn their spells and therefore have to have a greater full understanding of their spellcasting therefore they get meta magic.

    4E had subclasses (in the form of Paragon Paths) and backgrounds.

    Looking it up it looks like while backgrounds started as only a flavor thing they did add mechanical ability to them in the PBH2 so fair enough but either way they need to go harder on them

    I don't agree that Paragon paths serve the same purpose as subclasses though. There are many reasons for this but the biggest is how late it starts. A good number of 4E players probably never even got to pick a Paragon path. I'm not sure I ever did.

    Quire.jpg
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I think there's a lot of stuff that they really broke open in a good way with fifth edition. Just off the top of my head I would keep...

    Subclasses. These things rule. I love the idea of having a mechanical center point that diverges wildly. I disagree with several of the specific choices they made but I definitely keep the concept*.

    Backgrounds. Honestly if I have my way backgrounds become as big a part of the character as your class or your race. I want a scholarly fighter and I want it now.

    Bounded accuracy. There is just a part of my brain that desperately wants any player to die if I throw enough orcs at them.

    I would specifically change....

    Spellcasting. Specifically I don't like that they all work the same. Call Divine magic miracles and make them function differently than arcane. This also makes psionics and easier edition to the game in my opinion.

    Classes. Somebody needs to figure out if classes are supposed to be extremely generic concepts or extremely specific ones because we have a bit of both. Also I'm not sure that warlocks and sorcerers both need to exist. I'm equally dubious about druids being an entire separate class now that subclasses exist.

    And yeah maneuvers or something similar to the things that people have been posting.

    *Specifically I don't think it was the correct choice at all to give sorcerers Metamagic. That's just obviously a wizard thing to me. I know that some people were specifically upset with 4th edition for making sorcerers the blasters and not wizards but not just seems like the obvious choice? Sorcerer's work on a more intuitive level so they can pull out big flashy stuff. They overwhelm you with power. Wizards learn their spells and therefore have to have a greater full understanding of their spellcasting therefore they get meta magic.

    4E had subclasses (in the form of Paragon Paths) and backgrounds.

    Looking it up it looks like while backgrounds started as only a flavor thing they did add mechanical ability to them in the PBH2 so fair enough but either way they need to go harder on them

    I don't agree that Paragon paths serve the same purpose as subclasses though. There are many reasons for this but the biggest is how late it starts. A good number of 4E players probably never even got to pick a Paragon path. I'm not sure I ever did.

    To be honest, 11-20 gets to be a bit of a rough area anyways, and 21-30 gets pretty dumb.

    Combats start taking millenia. We had one combat take 1.5 sessions.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I think there's a lot of stuff that they really broke open in a good way with fifth edition. Just off the top of my head I would keep...

    Subclasses. These things rule. I love the idea of having a mechanical center point that diverges wildly. I disagree with several of the specific choices they made but I definitely keep the concept*.

    Backgrounds. Honestly if I have my way backgrounds become as big a part of the character as your class or your race. I want a scholarly fighter and I want it now.

    Bounded accuracy. There is just a part of my brain that desperately wants any player to die if I throw enough orcs at them.

    I would specifically change....

    Spellcasting. Specifically I don't like that they all work the same. Call Divine magic miracles and make them function differently than arcane. This also makes psionics and easier edition to the game in my opinion.

    Classes. Somebody needs to figure out if classes are supposed to be extremely generic concepts or extremely specific ones because we have a bit of both. Also I'm not sure that warlocks and sorcerers both need to exist. I'm equally dubious about druids being an entire separate class now that subclasses exist.

    And yeah maneuvers or something similar to the things that people have been posting.

    *Specifically I don't think it was the correct choice at all to give sorcerers Metamagic. That's just obviously a wizard thing to me. I know that some people were specifically upset with 4th edition for making sorcerers the blasters and not wizards but not just seems like the obvious choice? Sorcerer's work on a more intuitive level so they can pull out big flashy stuff. They overwhelm you with power. Wizards learn their spells and therefore have to have a greater full understanding of their spellcasting therefore they get meta magic.

    4E had subclasses (in the form of Paragon Paths) and backgrounds.

    Looking it up it looks like while backgrounds started as only a flavor thing they did add mechanical ability to them in the PBH2 so fair enough but either way they need to go harder on them

    I don't agree that Paragon paths serve the same purpose as subclasses though. There are many reasons for this but the biggest is how late it starts. A good number of 4E players probably never even got to pick a Paragon path. I'm not sure I ever did.

    They may be thinking of Themes, which started in Dark Sun and sort of spread into general settings very late in 4e's lifespan. They aren't really subclasses either.

    The subclasses in 4e were usually class feature choices. Which looks really light until you realize that a whole bunch of powers leverage having those class features, either explicitly or just through synergy. Like a whole lot of 4e the class power list weren't just a spell list so much as a giant extension of the class.

    Others lacked features but had de facto ones by having two attack stats where, for example, a strength Paladin plays very different than a charisma Paladin.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 13
    From extensive playtesting, my players very much enjoy A5E's maneuvers. Although sometimes they ask for custom ones, but since we have a framework it's not any harder than coming up with custom spells. I just let them know any maneuver they ask for, other skilled fighters they encounter might also have.

    there are some rough edges for certain, I do feel like A5E needs more playtesting, but I absolutely think it "works" in 5th edition. Some maneuvers are really bad and need buffs for sure, a few are a bit too strong, but largely they're really good - the fact that a few are bad isn't that big of a deal given that every martial gets 2 schools they're proficient in (or more)

    One thing I've done is, since you can research new spells during downtime in a5e, I allow martials to research new maneuvers during downtime, makes sense after all

    override367 on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    I can't see it both ways: Wizards have studied magic and can therefore be more creative with its applications, but also most Wizards follow the precise instructions for a spell created. by somebody else, while a Sorcerer's more instinctive usage allows them to be a bit looser with working the magic. A bit like a chemist vs. a cook.

    More importantly you need to balance power without allowing large discrepancies in the number of spells that can be utilized. Because the number of spells utilized is a very blunt instrument and because combat doesn't tend to last enough rounds to make the lower level spells terribly relevant.

    That is. Sorcerers need empower.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    I can't see it both ways: Wizards have studied magic and can therefore be more creative with its applications, but also most Wizards follow the precise instructions for a spell created. by somebody else, while a Sorcerer's more instinctive usage allows them to be a bit looser with working the magic. A bit like a chemist vs. a cook.

    More importantly you need to balance power without allowing large discrepancies in the number of spells that can be utilized. Because the number of spells utilized is a very blunt instrument and because combat doesn't tend to last enough rounds to make the lower level spells terribly relevant.

    That is. Sorcerers need empower.

    Mechanically I figured 5E Sorcerers got Metamagic to add a little flexibility and complexity to their relatively rigid spells known. Wizards aren't exactly lacking there with a decent spellbook.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited May 13
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    I can't see it both ways: Wizards have studied magic and can therefore be more creative with its applications, but also most Wizards follow the precise instructions for a spell created. by somebody else, while a Sorcerer's more instinctive usage allows them to be a bit looser with working the magic. A bit like a chemist vs. a cook.

    More importantly you need to balance power without allowing large discrepancies in the number of spells that can be utilized. Because the number of spells utilized is a very blunt instrument and because combat doesn't tend to last enough rounds to make the lower level spells terribly relevant.

    That is. Sorcerers need empower.

    They certainly need something. There's a lot of stuff that wizards get that I wouldn't necessarily give them.

    If the game ever successfully breaks out of the idea that wizards need to basically have all options all the time that will probably be a huge game changer.

    nightmarenny on
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