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[War] the thread where we all root for Ukraine to rout Russia

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    Okay, so it's almost 3pm my time as they made that announcement.

    Does this mean they'll change their mind again by the time I have dinner, or will they wait until I go to bed?

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Believe it when they're in country after Poland says they're doing it. :P

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Poland has 27 Mig29 according to Jane's.

    That's certainly a sizeable amount, wow

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular

    !!! The "Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Goverment, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the USA."

    Tweeter is an author, for newsline magazine and others

    how many back and forths is this now? 3? 4?

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    According to Times UK, who is in turn reporting from Ukrainian military sources, the "Go fuck yourself" ship has been fucked.

    Russian Warshp that attacked Snake Island has been destroyed

    According to Ukrainian sources the ship came under attack by Ukrainian rocket units on Monday morning and was destroyed. Although reading between the lines it might be more of a case of this ship coming under severe attack on Monday morning, because no outside intel has confirmed it.

    If the Snake Island PoWs were on that ship.. well.. hopefully they weren't.

    He/Him | "We who believe in freedom cannot rest." - Dr. Johnetta Cole, 7/22/2024
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    Double post

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statement-of-the-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-poland-in-connection-with-the-statement-by-the-us-secretary-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine
    The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Goverment, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

    At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

    The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.

    Official statement of the polish government

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Rammstein is something other than a German heavy metal band?

    The band is named after the base (originally named after the 1988 airshow disaster there), which is named after the town of Ramstein-Miesenbach, which was formed from amalgamating the villages of Ramstein and Miesenbach in 1969, the Ramstein half was first mentioned in a document from 1215 and the origin of the name is unknown.

  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    I believe this is the first official confirmation from the Polish government, previously it was all hear say from news organizations or US government officials.

  • R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    *No, Russia, see, we didn't give Ukraine MiGs. We traded them to the US for some F-16s. They gave Ukraine the MiGs. You gotta problem with that, take it up with them! "

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    I know I was kinda depressed with covid, with the joke that if we were attacked by aliens we’d be too busy being selfish to make an actual defence… but now… I’m kinda feeling a bit more hopeful.

    1 day left until Russia’s stock market opens.. tick tock

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    Rammstein is something other than a German heavy metal band?

    It's an American base in Europe that has the Nato allied (air?) command and the command of the US air force for Europe and Africa.

    Over 50k US soldiers I think

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/russian-energy-import-ban/index.html

    Russian Energy Ban is now official

    Also, Unilever has stopped all imports/exports with Russia - which is pretty huge because Unilever is massive

    Wow, this is massive

    It will unfortunately "continue to supply its everyday essential food and hygiene products made in Russia to people in the country", which lessens the impact. Every Russian not suffering as much as possible today is another killed Ukrainian civilian tomorrow, because that is the world we have now.

    This is over the line into gross IMO. My impression of the purpose of the sanctions is a) global solidarity and b) bankrupt their military. Maybe I'm just really wrong, but the suffering of already poorer people isn't something I'm cheering over. I know it's going to happen, but I don't think it's the goal by itself...

    I'm getting increasingly scared that the western world is going to cause a massive humanitarian crisis in Russia (or elsewhere if other places depend on Russia's exports and can't find a replacement). The average person in Russia is already struggling on a good year.

  • DarklyreDarklyre Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    ...At the disposal of the US government? If this timeline gets any weirder...

    Imagine telling someone 40 years ago that US MiGs may see action against Iranian F-14s. :#

    Darklyre on
  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    R-dem wrote: »
    *No, Russia, see, we didn't give Ukraine MiGs. We traded them to the US for some F-16s. They gave Ukraine the MiGs. You gotta problem with that, take it up with them! "

    Yeah, looks like the delays were based on deciding the proper size and color of the fig leaf necessary.

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    notya wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/russian-energy-import-ban/index.html

    Russian Energy Ban is now official

    Also, Unilever has stopped all imports/exports with Russia - which is pretty huge because Unilever is massive

    Wow, this is massive

    It will unfortunately "continue to supply its everyday essential food and hygiene products made in Russia to people in the country", which lessens the impact. Every Russian not suffering as much as possible today is another killed Ukrainian civilian tomorrow, because that is the world we have now.

    This is over the line into gross IMO. My impression of the purpose of the sanctions is a) global solidarity and b) bankrupt their military. Maybe I'm just really wrong, but the suffering of already poorer people isn't something I'm cheering over. I know it's going to happen, but I don't think it's the goal by itself...

    I'm getting increasingly scared that the western world is going to cause a massive humanitarian crisis in Russia (or elsewhere if other places depend on Russia's exports and can't find a replacement). The average person in Russia is already struggling on a good year.

    It was Putin who caused it.

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular


    💸 Leonardo DiCaprio sent $ 10 million to the Armed Forces of Ukraine — this is currently the largest donation from one person, according to GSA News

    Tweeter is a Ukrainian news page

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    Krieghund on
  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    R-dem wrote: »
    *No, Russia, see, we didn't give Ukraine MiGs. We traded them to the US for some F-16s. They gave Ukraine the MiGs. You gotta problem with that, take it up with them! "

    Took them long enough to come up with this loophole but i'll allow it.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Almost at 100, anyone got a new OP lined up?

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".

    I think that's the point, no?

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".

    It'd be F-16s. The specific replacement's come up a few times, and the US has like eighty billion of the things.

  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    Also now everyone is going to want to test their new toys.

    Russia is suuuuper fucked.

  • This content has been removed.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you'd have thought from this thread it was closer to 70% =p

    That "5%" is out of the total stockpile, I believe. So it's more like 15-25% of operational vehicles. That is
    Darklyre wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    NatSec reporter, Foreign Policy, from US defense press gathering.

    "NEW: U.S. believes that 5 percent of Russia's invading weapons and vehicles have been destroyed or "rendered inoperable" in nearly two weeks of war in Ukraine: senior U.S. defense official"

    What's the normal rate after two weeks for a foreign invasion?

    Well. Usually 10% is cited as the point where armies start to suffer from mass desertions.

    That's for casualties - the 5% number is for materiel.

    I don't think the number is too useful because it also depends on what percentage of losses Ukraine is taking. Losing 5% in two weeks sounds bad, but if in return you destroy 10% of the enemy's materiel then it was a good trade, attrition-wise.

    Unless you just made like 37 more enemies

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    Also now everyone is going to want to test their new toys.

    Russia is suuuuper fucked.

    Their armored vehicles were already hosting the international ATGM Olympics

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Darklyre wrote: »
    ...At the disposal of the US government? If this timeline gets any weirder...

    Imagine telling someone 40 years ago that US MiGs may see action against Iranian F-14s. :#

    Anecdotally, I want to say after World War 2 a lot of warplanes were sold / handed off and at one point, Israeli B-17s were being escorted by Israeli Messerschmitts.

    Egyptian Air Force attacked them with Spitfires.

    War and where shit ends up is crazy.

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  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    Rammstein is something other than a German heavy metal band?

    It's an American base in Europe that has the Nato allied (air?) command and the command of the US air force for Europe and Africa.

    Over 50k US soldiers I think

    It has the largest population of Americans outside of the USA. It's a very big base, and has a lovely BX, I might add.

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  • OdinOdin Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    Also now everyone is going to want to test their new toys.

    Russia is suuuuper fucked.

    Their armored vehicles were already hosting the international ATGM Olympics

    Ukraine hoarding all the javelin throw medals

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Rammstein is something other than a German heavy metal band?

    Yes, it was also the site of the Rammstein Air Show disaster
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_air_show_disaster
    Which is where the band takes its name



    Rammstein is also the key USAF airbase in Europe.

    Mostly transport and Sigint, but it also used to be a key fighter base during the cold war.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    NatSec reporter, Foreign Policy, from US defense press gathering.

    "NEW: U.S. believes that 5 percent of Russia's invading weapons and vehicles have been destroyed or "rendered inoperable" in nearly two weeks of war in Ukraine: senior U.S. defense official"

    What's the normal rate after two weeks for a foreign invasion?

    Well. Usually 10% is cited as the point where armies start to suffer from mass desertions.

    just to add to that: Each piece of equipment, usually corresponds with 1 soldier becoming a casualty. Sure there are stuff abandoned in the mud, but there are also BMPs and tanks filled with soldiers getting killed. so its a good rule of thumb.

    So if that is true, then Russia has lost about 5% of their soldiers out of the fight, which comes to around 10k. That's in line with Ukrainian claims.

    However, we don't know what the loses are on the Ukrainian side and even if they are lower, Ukraine does not have the ability to replace their loses like Russia can. Worse, the Ukrainian forces fighting now(and they are fighting hard, both North, South and East) are the regular forces aka the highly trained professionals with the best equipment. That is what is worrying here.

    See, the thing about a proxy war, is that all they have to do is pop over to Poland and borrow a cup of explosions. Everyone who's spent the last N years pissed off seems to be more than happy to offer some spare explosions, no no don't worry, we've got lots, help yourself.

  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    notya wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/russian-energy-import-ban/index.html

    Russian Energy Ban is now official

    Also, Unilever has stopped all imports/exports with Russia - which is pretty huge because Unilever is massive

    Wow, this is massive

    It will unfortunately "continue to supply its everyday essential food and hygiene products made in Russia to people in the country", which lessens the impact. Every Russian not suffering as much as possible today is another killed Ukrainian civilian tomorrow, because that is the world we have now.

    This is over the line into gross IMO. My impression of the purpose of the sanctions is a) global solidarity and b) bankrupt their military. Maybe I'm just really wrong, but the suffering of already poorer people isn't something I'm cheering over. I know it's going to happen, but I don't think it's the goal by itself...

    I'm getting increasingly scared that the western world is going to cause a massive humanitarian crisis in Russia (or elsewhere if other places depend on Russia's exports and can't find a replacement). The average person in Russia is already struggling on a good year.

    It was Putin who caused it.

    And Putin who can stop it!

  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    Do the people asking for a no-fly zone realize that if America engages in a battle with Russia in the skies above Ukraine the entire country will be a smoking crater within a few hours?

    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    F-16s or F-35s (most likely F-16s) since those are aircraft they're already flying and have training capacity for. The media buzz says F-16s.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Scooter wrote: »
    Seems I'm not the only one confused:


    Researchers at
    @CITeam_ru
    disagree with recent Pentagon intel released to journos. The researches say Russia is in fact sending reinforcements into Ukraine. A lot of heavy equipment is westbound on trains. https://t.me/CITeam/2391

    pls remember to say who tweeters are

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    F-16. Which is more or less the direct equivalent. It’s better BVR defensive. The key stat here is operational range. The more fuel something carries the more of an offensive weapon it is.

    The F-15 is the equivalent/superior to the SU-27. The thing that matters most here is operational range where the F-15 and SU-27 are larger and have more fuel. And the F-16 and Mig-29 are smaller and carry less.

    This distinction is why the US no longer flies F-16 but many European nations still do. The F-16 just isn’t valuable for air defense anymore with updating to the F-22. But also because the scope of US short range air defense is like… we aren’t exactly expecting to have to defend the US from the air over the US anymore.

    But in terms of Polish air defense? The F-16 is pretty much an idea plane. And trading the MiGs for 16s is easily a good deal for them.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    edited March 2022
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    F-16s or F-35s (most likely F-16s) since those are aircraft they're already flying and have training capacity for. The media buzz says F-16s.

    Poland has 32 F-35s on order specifically to replace their MiG-29s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement#Poland

    And apparently 48 F-16s currently in service

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon_operators#Poland

    Smurph on
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    F-16. Which is more or less the direct equivalent. It’s better BVR defensive. The key stat here is operational range. The more fuel something carries the more of an offensive weapon it is.

    The F-15 is the equivalent/superior to the SU-27. The thing that matters most here is operational range where the F-15 and SU-27 are larger and have more fuel. And the F-16 and Mig-29 are smaller and carry less.

    This distinction is why the US no longer flies F-16 but many European nations still do. The F-16 just isn’t valuable for air defense anymore with updating to the F-22. But also because the scope of US short range air defense is like… we aren’t exactly expecting to have to defend the US from the air over the US anymore.

    But in terms of Polish air defense? The F-16 is pretty much an idea plane. And trading the MiGs for 16s is easily a good deal for them.

    I'd also be willing to bet they will be getting modernized avionics and targeting systems to let them better integrate with US/NATO systems, which will also help with those BVR capabilities. Most likely an upgrade all around for defensive operations.

  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    McDonald's is at least temporarily closing its stores in Russia now.

    AP reporter:


    I wonder how much of it has to do with supply issues

    I mean McDonald's primarily operates on a franchise system - meaning they take Royalty revenue from the store and have a vertically integrated sales chain. The fact that there is no way to pay thar Royalty or pay for goods means to any entity outside the country means that unless McDonald's wants to own a lot of worthless Russian currency in perpetuity, they aren't going to continue shipping goods in or providing the franchise support required by its contracts. It's surprising it took this long for this to happen honestly.

    steam_sig.png
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 2022

    Krieghund wrote: »
    What would we give Poland as an equivalent to a MiG 29? F-16s or F/A-18s? F-15s would be a bit more capable, I'd imagine. Does Poland have the infrastructure to maintain a F-16? Training can happed on the job, I guess, but you really want the fuel system to match up, all the little details that you really don't think about. Though this would be funny if Poland is using this to upgrade their airforce for "free".


    Also, would this see US pilots in MiGs flying missions like the Soviets did in Korea and Vietnam?

    Most likely ukrainian pilots. The MiGs will just happen to fall off a truck in Lviv.

    Jealous Deva on
This discussion has been closed.