I'm getting a ton of EXP and AP and the enemies really aren't that hard (thanks to Terra and Celes absolutely WRECKING these bad guys) so it's not a big deal.
Without getting specific, there’s a bit of a trick to the final part of that section that you might want to be aware of since it can cause you to permanently miss some content. I’ll include the bare bones in spoilers in case you want to know what to do:
Hint: When you get the chance to wait, you should wait.
Specific Mechanics Explanation:
Right before you leave, you’ll be asked if you want to wait or leave. Select wait, and then let the timer run down. You have to select the option and THEN wait, just waiting won’t work.
OneAngryPossum on
+3
21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Also, thanks for the updates on your play through, @urahonky, it’s got me working on mine again after I stalled out. Just about to wrap up the Magitek factory!
I dunno if it was like this in the original game, but in FFIV DS and the sequel, Slow is pretty much required for a lot of fights. In the DS remake, I also used Hold and Stop a lot in random fights in the final dungeon.
A lot of early FFs treat Osmose like it's the most OP forbidden fruit in existence.
In FF2 you can only find one copy of it in a late game dungeon, or rarely dropped from late game wizards.
In FF4 it's like they're afraid of how amazing it is to let casters refill their MP so it almost always restores only 1 MP.
In FF5 it's a top tier spell alongside Death and Flare that you don't get until the end of the game.
my recollection (which is probably wrong) is that in 4 osmose only really works against pure magic type enemies. so using it on a turtle won't get you anything but using it on a wizard will get you quite a bit.
I was always fine with it being the MP equivalent of HP drain, in that you couldn't take more than the enemy had, and that there were plenty of enemies that just didn't have MP. It was a fun mini game learning which enemies you could get big refills out of. And which enemies you could empty their MP to negate dangerous/annoying attacks.
I just don't get the FF5 logic, as a mage actually living in that world, I spend a lifetime studying magical texts to learn the most powerful, expensive, forbidden spells in existence, and...one of them is much less effective at it's goal than simply getting a good night's sleep.
The Coliseum can net you some really, really nice items, but it's not a random gamble - it's a very strict list of what items the coliseum will accept and not result in Typhon dicking you out of your bet, so you're 100% going to want a guide if you plan to use it at all.
(it is possible to kill Typhon before he boots you out, but by the time you can do it you likely don't need anything from it)
The Coliseum can net you some really, really nice items, but it's not a random gamble - it's a very strict list of what items the coliseum will accept and not result in Typhon dicking you out of your bet, so you're 100% going to want a guide if you plan to use it at all.
(it is possible to kill Typhon before he boots you out, but by the time you can do it you likely don't need anything from it)
But it's 1 character and auto battle. I went in and Sabin tried to cast sleep, slow, and fire on something. It seems like you're in trouble for mastering too many Espers.
Yes, what they use is random so there are often cheese builds to help lower RNG, like equipping Gogo with three tool commands and selling every tool except for the Drill, or never teaching Shadow any magic and since he never uses Throw in the Coliseum he'll only ever auto-attack.
Yeah, probably don't bother with the Coliseum when you first encounter it. Wait till you have grabbed some party members who are better suited to the dumb mechanics you have already noticed. Also, most of the good rewards are for wagering rare-ish items that you probably don't have yet (IIRC your wager is gone win or lose, so bear that in mind)
If you have access to quick save/load, definitely use that imo
Assuming you haven't intentionally been building a character for the Coliseum by not teaching them any magic, imo the King of the Coliseum is
Thanks all. I love a good Coliseum (spent lots of time in it in FF7) so I was really happy they had it here... But when they said it was auto battle I figured I would just move on.
+1
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Nothing worse than getting excited about an arena/coliseum in a game(because they're awesome) only to see its got all sorts of weird restrictions and settings that make it not actually play like the combat system you were excited to be using!
Nothing worse than getting excited about an arena/coliseum in a game(because they're awesome) only to see its got all sorts of weird restrictions and settings that make it not actually play like the combat system you were excited to be using!
I'll just never understand why that happens.
Yeah I get the single party member (sorta... why not let me use the full team) but the auto-battle is baffling.
Why would I get excited about an arena. It's a game where the primary method of interaction is fighting, and I am rewarded with the privilege of getting to do more fighting.
Why would I get excited about an arena. It's a game where the primary method of interaction is fighting, and I am rewarded with the privilege of getting to do more fighting.
"Come to the coliseum where you can fight monsters to your heart's content!"
Oh you mean that thing I can do for free right outside? That thing I've been doing for 40+ hours and will continue to do for another 40+?
"You can earn a new limit break!"
...fuckin' limit break better be worth it...
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Why would I get excited about an arena. It's a game where the primary method of interaction is fighting, and I am rewarded with the privilege of getting to do more fighting.
"Come to the coliseum where you can fight monsters to your heart's content!"
Oh you mean that thing I can do for free right outside? That thing I've been doing for 40+ hours and will continue to do for another 40+?
"You can earn a new limit break!"
...fuckin' limit break better be worth it...
The gambling aspect is fun too. :P
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Why would I get excited about an arena. It's a game where the primary method of interaction is fighting, and I am rewarded with the privilege of getting to do more fighting.
Well if one enjoys the combat of a game a specific location with specially built optional combat challenges at various points through the game is awesome.
And then I get rewards for taking on these special challenges? Oh hell yea thats what its all about!
I'd even say that building up characters to take down the biggest combat challenges for sweet rewards is the number #1 gameplay draw of the genre for me. And an arena is basically a big glowing sign saying "hey, we got that right here!"
There are also sometimes unique fights in such locations.
Like, in the Tales Of series, arenas, in addition to having endurance challenges unlike normal battles, also tend to be where you fight cameo heroes as a bonus boss fight.
This conversation does raise something of a question. Is the combat in your RPG fun to do? Or is it something you're doing just to get to the next plot point? And does it switch from one to another after a certain amount of repetition? The combat tneds to be the most gameplay-y part of these games, so I feel it kinda needs to be enjoyable on its own.
If I like the combat I'll enjoy the random battles. But for some reason Bravely Default 1 and 2 never clicked with me so every time I got into a fight I would get annoyed lol.
Huh! I really liked the way that BD1 and BS did its turn-based system, but maybe it only really clicked once I found ways to break the resource system over my knee.
This is just a list of important must-haves for me in a JRPG with random battles:
Good Battle Music
Fun combat
Time from beginning of the enter the fight to actual fighting needs to be short
That last one is probably the most critical. There's nothing more annoying then hitting a fight and then like 10-15 seconds later you're actually in the combat doing things.
+4
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
RPG combat also has a lot of factors to consider that all are weighted differently by people.
Like for me the progression is just as important as the actual combat itself when it comes to enjoying combat.
And I dont just mean I prefer games with fun progression but the actual experience of playing a battle will directly be more fun if there's a good progression system backing up.
If you take a game with the most perfect battle system ever and a second with a serviceable battle system then head to head the former would be more fun. But you give the second a fantastic progression system and the other a barebones system and I will actively enjoy the actual combat and have more fun playing the combat in the game thats just serviceable.
And then animations are also huge for me in any kinda RPG. I dont care how well put together your combat is if its boring to look at and my character isn't doing exciting things. I'm gonna get bored.
There's gradations to be sure, but honestly I think the only rpg I can recall with thoroughly enjoyable combat throughout the game was Valkyrie Profile, and we've basically never(except Indivisible, sort of) seen its ilk since.
There's gradations to be sure, but honestly I think the only rpg I can recall with thoroughly enjoyable combat throughout the game was Valkyrie Profile, and we've basically never(except Indivisible, sort of) seen its ilk since.
Also Exist Archive (low budget Valkyrie Profile with the serial numbers filed off by tri-Ace and Spike Chunsoft) and Super Neptunia RPG.
There's gradations to be sure, but honestly I think the only rpg I can recall with thoroughly enjoyable combat throughout the game was Valkyrie Profile, and we've basically never(except Indivisible, sort of) seen its ilk since.
Due to my love of progression as noted above RPGs tend to have the most enjoyable combat out of any games I play.
I play a little bit of everything but I'm always going to enjoy the gameplay in a game like Kingdom Hearts over a game like DMC just due to that. I like em both but I need them stats/levels/gear/skills to really love it.
0
21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
My favorite RPG battle systems require you to leverage the parts they put in without anything useless.
I don't want to have to deal with status effects that don't do anything or summons that are just hit point shields.
On the other end: if you have an extra turn gimmick, but using it well makes the game too easy I hate it. I want it to be an edge not an "I win" strat.
Good arenas can have fights that are much more challenging than the game's normal or boss encounters, and it's ok because not being able to complete one of the arena battles won't stop you from progressing the game. Stuff that makes you come up with clever strategies or party builds.
Yeah to build on that: Status effects that don't have a 10% chance to land are great. I'm okay if a blind enemy still has a 50% chance to hit but at least it's better than me wasting my time casting it to never land.
Yeah to build on that: Status effects that don't have a 10% chance to land are great. I'm okay if a blind enemy still has a 50% chance to hit but at least it's better than me wasting my time casting it to never land.
At this point I feel like status effect should always hit as long as the enemy isn't immune, but also only last a reasonable number of turns.
I flip flop on whether I think effects should linger after battle for the party. FF itself has been so wildly inconsistent on this that it's a new discovery every time I play or re-play one. Generally if an effect can wear off during battle then I think it should wear off afterward, just implying that I took enough time to catch my breath that it went away. But I have played RPGs where poison sticks after battle and keeps hurting you, but eventually wears off if you just wait around in combat. Some really weird decisions out there.
I mean, am I really having "fun" having to use Eye Drops in FF5? It's menu busywork, right?
But a lot of modern games have nothing stick around after battle, even poison. And then I'm just thinking, why the heck do I have all these curatives in inventory? I'll just soldier through the blindness and poison for that one fight and heal up afterward. The healing is cheaper than curing poison and getting re-poisoned and trying to cure it again and then having to heal anyway.
I feel like a lot of games could use a real hard look at their own numbers, and where optimal strategy naturally leads players.
Yeah to build on that: Status effects that don't have a 10% chance to land are great. I'm okay if a blind enemy still has a 50% chance to hit but at least it's better than me wasting my time casting it to never land.
At this point I feel like status effect should always hit as long as the enemy isn't immune, but also only last a reasonable number of turns.
I flip flop on whether I think effects should linger after battle for the party. FF itself has been so wildly inconsistent on this that it's a new discovery every time I play or re-play one. Generally if an effect can wear off during battle then I think it should wear off afterward, just implying that I took enough time to catch my breath that it went away. But I have played RPGs where poison sticks after battle and keeps hurting you, but eventually wears off if you just wait around in combat. Some really weird decisions out there.
I mean, am I really having "fun" having to use Eye Drops in FF5? It's menu busywork, right?
But a lot of modern games have nothing stick around after battle, even poison. And then I'm just thinking, why the heck do I have all these curatives in inventory? I'll just soldier through the blindness and poison for that one fight and heal up afterward. The healing is cheaper than curing poison and getting re-poisoned and trying to cure it again and then having to heal anyway.
I feel like a lot of games could use a real hard look at their own numbers, and where optimal strategy naturally leads players.
Posts
Without getting specific, there’s a bit of a trick to the final part of that section that you might want to be aware of since it can cause you to permanently miss some content. I’ll include the bare bones in spoilers in case you want to know what to do:
Specific Mechanics Explanation:
Ayeu ayeu.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
edit:
I dunno if it was like this in the original game, but in FFIV DS and the sequel, Slow is pretty much required for a lot of fights. In the DS remake, I also used Hold and Stop a lot in random fights in the final dungeon.
In FF2 you can only find one copy of it in a late game dungeon, or rarely dropped from late game wizards.
In FF4 it's like they're afraid of how amazing it is to let casters refill their MP so it almost always restores only 1 MP.
In FF5 it's a top tier spell alongside Death and Flare that you don't get until the end of the game.
my recollection (which is probably wrong) is that in 4 osmose only really works against pure magic type enemies. so using it on a turtle won't get you anything but using it on a wizard will get you quite a bit.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
(it is possible to kill Typhon before he boots you out, but by the time you can do it you likely don't need anything from it)
But it's 1 character and auto battle. I went in and Sabin tried to cast sleep, slow, and fire on something. It seems like you're in trouble for mastering too many Espers.
If you have access to quick save/load, definitely use that imo
Assuming you haven't intentionally been building a character for the Coliseum by not teaching them any magic, imo the King of the Coliseum is
I'll just never understand why that happens.
Yeah I get the single party member (sorta... why not let me use the full team) but the auto-battle is baffling.
"Come to the coliseum where you can fight monsters to your heart's content!"
Oh you mean that thing I can do for free right outside? That thing I've been doing for 40+ hours and will continue to do for another 40+?
"You can earn a new limit break!"
...fuckin' limit break better be worth it...
The gambling aspect is fun too. :P
Well if one enjoys the combat of a game a specific location with specially built optional combat challenges at various points through the game is awesome.
And then I get rewards for taking on these special challenges? Oh hell yea thats what its all about!
I'd even say that building up characters to take down the biggest combat challenges for sweet rewards is the number #1 gameplay draw of the genre for me. And an arena is basically a big glowing sign saying "hey, we got that right here!"
Like, in the Tales Of series, arenas, in addition to having endurance challenges unlike normal battles, also tend to be where you fight cameo heroes as a bonus boss fight.
This conversation does raise something of a question. Is the combat in your RPG fun to do? Or is it something you're doing just to get to the next plot point? And does it switch from one to another after a certain amount of repetition? The combat tneds to be the most gameplay-y part of these games, so I feel it kinda needs to be enjoyable on its own.
That last one is probably the most critical. There's nothing more annoying then hitting a fight and then like 10-15 seconds later you're actually in the combat doing things.
Like for me the progression is just as important as the actual combat itself when it comes to enjoying combat.
And I dont just mean I prefer games with fun progression but the actual experience of playing a battle will directly be more fun if there's a good progression system backing up.
If you take a game with the most perfect battle system ever and a second with a serviceable battle system then head to head the former would be more fun. But you give the second a fantastic progression system and the other a barebones system and I will actively enjoy the actual combat and have more fun playing the combat in the game thats just serviceable.
And then animations are also huge for me in any kinda RPG. I dont care how well put together your combat is if its boring to look at and my character isn't doing exciting things. I'm gonna get bored.
Also Exist Archive (low budget Valkyrie Profile with the serial numbers filed off by tri-Ace and Spike Chunsoft) and Super Neptunia RPG.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Due to my love of progression as noted above RPGs tend to have the most enjoyable combat out of any games I play.
I play a little bit of everything but I'm always going to enjoy the gameplay in a game like Kingdom Hearts over a game like DMC just due to that. I like em both but I need them stats/levels/gear/skills to really love it.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I don't want to have to deal with status effects that don't do anything or summons that are just hit point shields.
On the other end: if you have an extra turn gimmick, but using it well makes the game too easy I hate it. I want it to be an edge not an "I win" strat.
Heck in earlier Fire Emblems it was the only way to consistently level without being pushed into further story progress.
At this point I feel like status effect should always hit as long as the enemy isn't immune, but also only last a reasonable number of turns.
I flip flop on whether I think effects should linger after battle for the party. FF itself has been so wildly inconsistent on this that it's a new discovery every time I play or re-play one. Generally if an effect can wear off during battle then I think it should wear off afterward, just implying that I took enough time to catch my breath that it went away. But I have played RPGs where poison sticks after battle and keeps hurting you, but eventually wears off if you just wait around in combat. Some really weird decisions out there.
I mean, am I really having "fun" having to use Eye Drops in FF5? It's menu busywork, right?
But a lot of modern games have nothing stick around after battle, even poison. And then I'm just thinking, why the heck do I have all these curatives in inventory? I'll just soldier through the blindness and poison for that one fight and heal up afterward. The healing is cheaper than curing poison and getting re-poisoned and trying to cure it again and then having to heal anyway.
I feel like a lot of games could use a real hard look at their own numbers, and where optimal strategy naturally leads players.
Mandatory speedrunning lessons.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy