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[NFL] Thread: Weak Three Complete. Thank Dog!

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    At least he didn't take a knee. That shit is beyond the pale!

    ElvenshaeDoctor DetroitCaptain Inertiachrono_travellerGnizmotzeentchlingmarajiShawnasee
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Really hoping if they ask Baker to stick around until any suspension is served (expectation is Watson is gonna be suspended for at least a couple games), that Baker tells them to fuck off.

    Heck, any Browns player who wants out, I'd happily cheer on. I thought OBJ forcing his way out was sketchy, but fuck it, any and every player that doesn't want to be around Watson, or work for an organization that not only wants him, but paid the fucking bank for him (both cash, and draft picks), I say good for you, hope you land with an organization that's only minorly terrible, and not the fucking worst.

    And if they try and force him to, either sit out, or go on the field and start handing it off to the opposition.

    Hard to hold any that begrudgingly stay (unless they fully stan for Watson), because a lot of players don't have the leverage to force their way out.

    But congratulations, Browns. You're now worse than Washington. Though I'm sure Snyder will do something fucking assholic between now and the start of the season to reclaim top place.

    MorganV on
    maraji
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    The number of players, former and current, who are congratulating Watson is just a bit on the other side of 'gross'.

    MorganVPreacherBlackDragon480H3KnucklesCaptain InertiazagdrobGnizmomarajiTransporterTheBlackWind
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    The number of players, former and current, who are congratulating Watson is just a bit on the other side of 'gross'.

    I mean people cheered for Ben Rothelisberger and Jameis Winston. Raping/assaulting women is acceptable to the NFL/players/fans no matter how many crying Eli commercials they do.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    H3KnucklesShadowenElvenshaezagdrobchrono_travellerGnizmomaraji
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The number of players, former and current, who are congratulating Watson is just a bit on the other side of 'gross'.

    Lebron James is on this list it’s fucking awful

    TheBlackWind
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    The number of players, former and current, who are congratulating Watson is just a bit on the other side of 'gross'.

    Lebron James is on this list it’s fucking awful

    Yeah, but he hasn’t made a good decision since he went back to the Cavs. So not terribly surprising.

    TheBlackWind
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    The number of players, former and current, who are congratulating Watson is just a bit on the other side of 'gross'.

    Lebron James is on this list it’s fucking awful

    Yeah, but he hasn’t made a good decision since he went back to the Cavs. So not terribly surprising.

    He's going to the league, he's going to the league.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    TheBlackWind
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Matt Ryan to Indianapolis.

    Atlanta signs Marcus Mariota.

    The dance continues...

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Matt Ryan to Indianapolis.

    Atlanta signs Marcus Mariota.

    The dance continues...

    At the very least, Ryan might find the idea of playing behind a good line a novel experience.

    TicaldfjamElvenshaeMulletudecrzyangochrono_travellerAuralynxBlackDragon480SorceiTunesIsEvilmarajiShadowhopeHeir
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    After letting Manning leave to finish his career elsewhere, now Indy is where QBs go to retire.

    Preacher
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    After letting Manning leave to finish his career elsewhere, now Indy is where QBs go to retire.

    And their philosophy is apparently "be mediocre enough where we can't really expect to draft a good QB ever again."

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
    Doctor Detroit
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited March 21
    Butters wrote: »
    After letting Manning leave to finish his career elsewhere, now Indy is where QBs go to retire.

    And their philosophy is apparently "be mediocre enough where we can't really expect to draft a good QB ever again."

    Though, all you gotta do is keep spending resources in it.

    As we've seen of the current standing of the position, you don't need a top three pick to snag a SB calibre QB. Even if we don't count multiples (Brady skews the curve pretty hard), these are the SB winning QB's since 2001 (Brady's first).

    Brady (R6), Brad Johnson (R9?), Roethlisberger (11th), Peyton (1st), Eli (1st), Brees (R2), Rodgers (24th), Flacco (18th), Wilson (R3), Foles (R3), Mahomes (10th), Stafford (1st).

    That's 12 QB's. Three 1st overalls, four mid-ish first round picks, and five that didn't even go first round. And at least four of those players won at least one of those rings playing for a team other than the one which drafted them.

    The idea you need to be first overall to get a QB is clearly wrong.

    MorganV on
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I'm beginning to think all these huge dead money deals are an attempt to build momentum toward removing the cap or raising it drastically.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    Preacher
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think all these huge dead money deals are an attempt to build momentum toward removing the cap or raising it drastically.

    Every GM in a room dead-eyed staring at each other loading more and more bullets into their revolvers and pointing them at their own heads.

    PreacherCaptain InertiawazillaH3Knuckleschrono_travellerTheBlackWind
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Matt Ryan for a 3rd is a steal. Might be a year too late, what with the entire defensive staff relocating to Chicago, but it's still a good team. I'd rather look into the ark of the covenant than try to make the Super Bowl in the AFC, though.

    TheBlackWind
  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    After letting Manning leave to finish his career elsewhere, now Indy is where QBs go to retire.

    And their philosophy is apparently "be mediocre enough where we can't really expect to draft a good QB ever again."

    Though, all you gotta do is keep spending resources in it.

    As we've seen of the current standing of the position, you don't need a top three pick to snag a SB calibre QB. Even if we don't count multiples (Brady skews the curve pretty hard), these are the SB winning QB's since 2001 (Brady's first).

    Brady (R6), Brad Johnson (R9?), Roethlisberger (11th), Peyton (1st), Eli (1st), Brees (R2), Rodgers (24th), Flacco (18th), Wilson (R3), Foles (R3), Mahomes (10th), Stafford (1st).

    That's 12 QB's. Three 1st overalls, four mid-ish first round picks, and five that didn't even go first round. And at least four of those players won at least one of those rings playing for a team other than the one which drafted them.

    The idea you need to be first overall to get a QB is clearly wrong.
    Not to mention the backup QBs which are probably not first or second rounders either.

    sig.gif

    Backloggery. Yes, it's updated... as of 08/29.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    There’s not enough data points nor good control for the spectrum of awful that is the nepotism failfest of NFL franchises, but a QB taken #1 tends to be the best QB of his class, the first QB taken that isn’t the top pick is poop from an ass, and after that it’s completely random

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited March 22
    There’s not enough data points nor good control for the spectrum of awful that is the nepotism failfest of NFL franchises, but a QB taken #1 tends to be the best QB of his class, the first QB taken that isn’t the top pick is poop from an ass, and after that it’s completely random

    Going back to 1998* and Peyton Manning, here's the list.

    Peyton (obviously), Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence.

    Of those, you've got two QB's who won with the team that drafted them (the Mannings), one who won after more than a decade of mediocrity elsewhere (Stafford), and one who got a ring as a backup for five years and four teams (David Carr).

    Only two others looked like they were true Superbowl calibre talents (Vick and Luck) that were derailed, two more that could have been in the right circumstance (Palmer and Newton), and two of which we don't really have enough information yet (Burrow and Lawrence).

    That leaves a full half that were at best journeyman players, or outright busts (Carr is included in this half, a ring when you didn't play a snap all year? GTFO). That's a pretty shitty guess rate for the most important position and pick in the league.

    * when the whole "QB is drafted first" looks like it started (only 6 of the previous 24 (1973-1997) 1st round picks were QB's, Bartkowski, Elway, Testaverde, Aikman, George, Bledsoe), Sure, two QB's were taken back to back in the few years prior, but a reminder, one of those is old as fuck Terry Bradshaw, just to put how long ago that was into perspective. Since then, it's been 18/24.

    MorganV on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Eli Manning was drafted by San Diego.

    marajiCaptain InertiaH3KnucklesTicaldfjamTheBlackWind
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited March 22
    And anyway, those are a lot of words to simply say that personnel evaluation is fucking atrocious in sports. As well as even if the player is any good, they can't overcome poorly constructed teams built because personnel evaluation is fucking atrocious.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
    marajiCaptain InertiaH3Knuckles
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited March 22
    MorganV wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    After letting Manning leave to finish his career elsewhere, now Indy is where QBs go to retire.

    And their philosophy is apparently "be mediocre enough where we can't really expect to draft a good QB ever again."

    Though, all you gotta do is keep spending resources in it.

    As we've seen of the current standing of the position, you don't need a top three pick to snag a SB calibre QB. Even if we don't count multiples (Brady skews the curve pretty hard), these are the SB winning QB's since 2001 (Brady's first).

    Brady (R6), Brad Johnson (R9?), Roethlisberger (11th), Peyton (1st), Eli (1st), Brees (R2), Rodgers (24th), Flacco (18th), Wilson (R3), Foles (R3), Mahomes (10th), Stafford (1st).

    That's 12 QB's. Three 1st overalls, four mid-ish first round picks, and five that didn't even go first round. And at least four of those players won at least one of those rings playing for a team other than the one which drafted them.

    The idea you need to be first overall to get a QB is clearly wrong.

    Nice strawman here, bro. Meanwhile most of the up-and-coming starting QBs are still highly drafted like: Josh Allen (6th), Joe Burrow (1st), Justin Herbert (6th), Kyler Murray (1st), etc.

    It's not a requirement to spend a high first but it definitely helps to be able to prioritize your needs in the drafts over what's left available. Since Luck retired, the Colts have prioritized getting veterans to keep them competitive but here they are three years later not any closer to having a future and that's not even taking into account the extra pick that most recent veteran cost them for being just bad enough to miss the playoffs in their shitty division.

    Butters on
    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
    Captain Inertia
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Yeah a 30% “success” rate is worth going for when the alternative is 10% or worse

    Player evaluation, especially QB evaluation, is infuriatingly atrocious (and also still racist!), it’s about improving your odds

    Butters
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    I think you probably need to factor in the condition of the o-line

    There seems to be far too many teams that think drafting a hotshit QB will fix everything despite having a subpar offensive line which, well, no.

    MorganVMulletude
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Yeah a 30% “success” rate is worth going for when the alternative is 10% or worse

    Player evaluation, especially QB evaluation, is infuriatingly atrocious (and also still racist!), it’s about improving your odds

    I think it is objectively difficult to measure college quarterback accuracy based on their personnel and scheme though. It's tough to know if they can't fit a ball in a tight window on a pro-style route if they've never needed to do that.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
    MorganVAtlas in Chains
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Yeah a 30% “success” rate is worth going for when the alternative is 10% or worse

    Player evaluation, especially QB evaluation, is infuriatingly atrocious (and also still racist!), it’s about improving your odds

    Understood, I was just disagreeing with what looked like the idea that you need to draft high, or even first, to get a franchise QB, when nearly all the better QB's in the league haven't been. You need to be lucky, and you need to be a good team overall, for it to make that difference. But you can't just "Ehh, fuck it, why bother" on the position either.

    I mean, I hate giving credit to the Pats (*spits*), but despite having one of the best QB's in the league, they never stopped trying either. They spend draft capital in 2008 (3rd Kevin O'Connell), 2011 (3rd Ryan Mallett), 2014 (2nd Jimmy Garoppolo), 2016 (3rd Jacoby Brissett), and 2019 (4th Jarrett Stidham). While none have been standout successes, several have had decent enough careers that a gamble on them wasn't a bad idea.

    Sure, this is especially harder when as Happy mentions, your team is generally shit, or badly managed, or both, and you just slot in QB's as the panacea to all your problems (see the infamous Browns QB shirt).

    The Colts haven't really missed big (only pick that "could have been" based on performance since Luck was passing over Jalen Hurts twice in 2020), but they also haven't tried in the draft. I didn't kill them for the Wentz trade, even though in hindsight it was bad.

    The issue with QB's over any other position, is that they're just so dang expensive at the top, especially on a true "sure thing". You're talking multiple first round picks for a veteran, or paying a fortune to retain, and moving up to get one in the draft is often expensive as shit too (RG3 was three firsts). So you need to keep taking swings, and have a decent enough team that you can slot one in when you get the chance, and not get him killed.

    Captain Inertia
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    It's got to be incredibly demoralizing for Mayfield to see all these teams with a need for QB going " we don't want that guy"

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    It's got to be incredibly demoralizing for Mayfield to see all these teams with a need for QB going " we don't want that guy"

    That's a sword that cuts both ways. Mayfield and the Panthers are reported to have "mutual disinterest" in each other. I can't tell which party should be more insulted.

    MorganVmarajiBlackDragon480TheBlackWind
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    It's got to be incredibly demoralizing for Mayfield to see all these teams with a need for QB going " we don't want that guy"

    There can't be anything more demoralizing than a top flight WR requesting a trade mid-season and immediately integrating into a SB winning offense in an impactful way.

    You'd have to be delusional to not be devastated by that.

    Psn:wazukki
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    The thing that worries me a bit is I keep hearing pundits say "Seattle is a great fit"

    Just...no. We don't want a prima donna who spends all his time filming commercials.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    TheBlackWind
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    The thing that worries me a bit is I keep hearing pundits say "Seattle is a great fit"

    Just...no. We don't want a prima donna who spends all his time filming commercials.

    Aren't you pushing for Minshew? Like be honest Knitdan you want the hawks to coug it.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    chrono_travellerTicaldfjamTheBlackWindButters
  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    The thing that worries me a bit is I keep hearing pundits say "Seattle is a great fit"

    Just...no. We don't want a prima donna who spends all his time filming commercials.

    ...how long do you think it takes to film an average TV commercial?

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
    Shadowhope
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    edited March 23
    Mvrck wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    The thing that worries me a bit is I keep hearing pundits say "Seattle is a great fit"

    Just...no. We don't want a prima donna who spends all his time filming commercials.

    ...how long do you think it takes to film an average TV commercial?

    Gotta be at least all his practice time, right?

    Atlas in Chains on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Or, you know, the off-season, days off, that kind of thing.

    Mulletude
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I think Jedrick Wills is the one spending too much time commercializing, that dude hasn’t had a PFF grade over 60 yet and Mayfield’s at least done that maybe

    Also Progressive might need to drop him…they’re based in Mayfield, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, it was all way too cute by many halves

  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    The thing that worries me a bit is I keep hearing pundits say "Seattle is a great fit"

    Just...no. We don't want a prima donna who spends all his time filming commercials.

    There’s plenty to complain about with his on field talents, don’t think his endorsements really matter much. I’m also not sure he’s really a prima donna so much as a “try hard and inspire” guy. That attitude can grate if the person with it is clearly a part of the problem or success doesn’t follow.

    Basically he has always been one of the best players in the room and leveraged that and effort to try and lead, but in the pros he wasn’t good enough and his colleagues weren’t as easily inspired.

    The OBJ stuff was the cap to this, as he realized he was too good for a team held back by Mayfield’s limitations (both talent and injury), and while I’m not blaming him for the locker room collapse (he was right) I think it accelerated the process.

    Mayfield isn’t a bad quarterback, player, or teammate, but he wasn’t the answer* Cleveland was looking for. Put in a different situation, with different expectations about leadership and the experience of the past two years to inform his attitude, I don’t think he’s a bad option for a team that needs to build up other areas. Assuming he has recovered from that shoulder injury, of course.


    * - They needed someone with more experience at sexual assault.

  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    KC's looking to trade Tyreek?



    (Schefter gargles NFL owners' balls and occasionally provides news)
    Jets and Dolphins are in serious talks to trade for Chiefs’ WR Tyreek Hill, per league sources. Hill and Chiefs are mulling what to do but Hill’s time in KC looks like it could be coming to an end.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    KC's looking to trade Tyreek?

    (Schefter gargles NFL owners' balls and occasionally provides news)
    Jets and Dolphins are in serious talks to trade for Chiefs’ WR Tyreek Hill, per league sources. Hill and Chiefs are mulling what to do but Hill’s time in KC looks like it could be coming to an end.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/tyreek-hill-19119/
    Looks like he's only contracted for this year. I can't see why either team would want him at a high price, neither are in real contention, and then they'll either have to restructure his contract, or franchise him.

    I wonder what the Chiefs are asking?

    Davante Adams got GB a 1st and 2nd (being No. 22 and No. 53). But that was with Vegas willing to go all in on getting things to the next level, and offering him a career contract.

  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    Both teams have young qbs on favorable contracts, makes a lot of sense for either of them.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    lazegamer wrote: »
    Both teams have young qbs on favorable contracts, makes a lot of sense for either of them.

    This is the Jets perpetual situation

    Wilson appears to be more poop than Darnold

    Ticaldfjam
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    C’mon Browns! Go all in on the villain role!
    Oh.
    Wow.

    Dolphins got Hill for 5 picks:
    2022 1st 2nd 4th
    2023 4th 6th

    Some of this supposedly came from the Niners trade up for Trey Lance .

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