As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Chat] with friends.

15253555758100

Posts

  • NecoNeco Worthless Garbage Registered User regular
    🐈
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m now imagining someone buying an enormous gallon bucket of cole slaw and eating from it with a big spoon

    How about eating that same bucket with a comically tiny spoon?

    TuminAtomikaLucedes
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    then of course this vid as well

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    🐈
    evilbob wrote: »
    IIRC the one thing that sometimes really held back Homeworld's campaign was that the difficulty scaling based one what you brought forward from the previous level was pretty screwy. So like if you played like any sensible person would and captured every cruiser possible in the first few missions you'd end up with mission 4? (the one where you fight the fleet that wrecked karak and can stay hidden from sensors in the gas tendrils where the resources are) being absurdly hard.

    Deserts of Kharak, and I think the Remastered Collection, have a setting where you don't have a persistent fleet. The difficulty is much better balanced as it bases the enemy fleet around what the mission gives you at the start and what resources are on the map.

    It feels a lot different but it does fix the screwy difficulty a lot.

    Also another way is to sell your whole fleet at the end of each mission, IIRC the difficulty scaler only looks at your fleet, not your funds.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    🐈
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    then of course this vid as well


    Yeah, this is why the first few missions are so amazing. First, the triumph, then, the gut punch.

    electricitylikesmeRMS OceanicHavelock2.0Alexandier
  • NecoNeco Worthless Garbage Registered User regular
    🐈
    I like the part where batman gives supernintendo chalmers a steamed ham

    HerrCron21stCenturyRMS OceanicLucedes
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    🐕
    Neco wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m now imagining someone buying an enormous gallon bucket of cole slaw and eating from it with a big spoon

    How about eating that same bucket with a comically tiny spoon?

    Costco bucket o’ slaw, espresso spoon.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Neco wrote: »
    I like the part where batman gives supernintendo chalmers a steamed ham

    This Ready Player One sequel sounds weird.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    22 minute walk to the new post pickup place. Bleh.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    evilbob wrote: »
    IIRC the one thing that sometimes really held back Homeworld's campaign was that the difficulty scaling based one what you brought forward from the previous level was pretty screwy. So like if you played like any sensible person would and captured every cruiser possible in the first few missions you'd end up with mission 4? (the one where you fight the fleet that wrecked karak and can stay hidden from sensors in the gas tendrils where the resources are) being absurdly hard.

    in retrospect I think the capture mechanic was a really bad idea as it incentivizes you to play th game in the boringest way possible

    and then, yeah, it also on top of that ends up blowing up in your face

    rRwz9.gif
    KanaelectricitylikesmeMazzyxHahnsoo1
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Homeworld is about a slow, bigass ship that manufactures your fighting ships and the game is universally loved. I never played Command & Conquer 4 but I read that one was also about a slow, bigass ship that manufactures your fighting ships and that one is loathed. What went wrong?

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited April 23
    🐈
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    evilbob wrote: »
    IIRC the one thing that sometimes really held back Homeworld's campaign was that the difficulty scaling based one what you brought forward from the previous level was pretty screwy. So like if you played like any sensible person would and captured every cruiser possible in the first few missions you'd end up with mission 4? (the one where you fight the fleet that wrecked karak and can stay hidden from sensors in the gas tendrils where the resources are) being absurdly hard.

    in retrospect I think the capture mechanic was a really bad idea as it incentivizes you to play th game in the boringest way possible

    and then, yeah, it also on top of that ends up blowing up in your face

    I spent hours on that one level with the hundred or so ion frigates, slowly capturing them. I ended up giving up half way. I also didn't realize I should sell them all so I lagged my poor computer into unplayability.

    -Loki- on
    JacobkoshshrykeOrcaHavelock2.0
  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    Well the trouble started in the Mesozoic era when the first mammals

    Echo
  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    🦬
    Working an extra 2 and a half hours cause a fuckface house keeper decided to call in sick at 7:30am

    So I'm covering Front Desk while asst manager is covering breakfast cause the breakfast girl is doing housekeeping, thankfully we hired someone yesterday

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    🦕
    Speaking of the worth of credit cards with annual fees, I’m going to Austin next month and for $160 I’m getting two nonstop flights in preferred seating, a king mini suite at an upscale hotel in a very chic part of town, and access to the airport lounge with free breakfast and booze.


    Worth.

    JacobkoshWeaverAlexandier
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    hm, what are the games that have affected me emotionally? now i'm wondering

    i guess i need some criteria. i'm going to say that like, i gotta rule out the simple thrill of accomplishment and overcoming obstacles, because that's nearly every game ever, and I need something more than kind of "fuck yeah" triumphalism, because it's so easy to root for your little avatar when he wins the street fighter tournament or blows up the alien base or whatever, because in your head that's something that *you* did. conversely, making you hate the bad guy isn't really a big deal. I hate the fucking pterodactyl in Joust, that doesn't mean Joust is a triumph of storytelling.

    generally speaking i am skeptical of the incredible moving power of something you played when you were 8. i believe people when they say, idk, link to the past really got them in the feels, but they were also children. it's a lovely charming game - and this is a good time to mention that being emotionally engaging isn't required or the only thing a game needs to be, lots of great games I love don't aim for that - but I don't think someone playing a 30-year-old zelda today without the benefit of childhood memories would find most of them particularly powerful.

    the indie comic book creator eric shanower used to ask people if a comic had ever made them cry. not because sadness or grief is the most elevated or adult emotion (which is the kind of sophomoric mistake I think a lot of modern, pointlessly grim, wannabe-cinematic games like Last of Us 2 make) but I think because if you're crying, either from sadness or through joy or inspiration or whatever, it's a workable proxy for whether you empathized with the characters in a story, whether it touched something in you that's raw or real, etc. that seems like a good criterion.

    so on that theory I'm going to just bash out a quick list here of games that I remember getting verklempt at - quickly, on the assumption that if I have to think too long about whether a thing moved me, it probably didn't. bonus points if it reliably reproduces that feeling (even to a smaller degree) years later, because that indicates it probably wasn't just a fluke.
    LOOM
    Chrono Trigger
    Wing Commander II, Wing Commander IV
    Final Fantasy IV, VI, VII, XIII
    The Last Express
    StarCraft
    Alpha Centauri
    Homeworld
    Baldur's Gate II
    Planescape Torment
    Max Payne, Max Payne 2
    Freedom Force, Freedom Force vs the Third Reich
    KOTOR
    Jade Empire
    Phoenix Wright, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations
    Hotel Dusk: Room 214
    Assassin's Creed II, AC: Brotherhood, AC: Black Flag
    Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3
    Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2, DA:I
    Persona 4
    Red Dead Redemption
    Alan Wake
    Deadly Premonition
    Sleeping Dogs
    The Wolf Among Us
    Tales from the Borderlands
    Blackwell Unbound
    Shadowrun Dragonfall, Shadowrun Hong Kong
    Firewatch
    Gone Home
    Spider-Man (PS4)
    Yakuza 0, Yakuza Kiwami 2, Yakuza 3
    Guardians of the Galaxy

    that's not a whole lot of games for having been doing this shit for almost 40 years! and looking at this, the big conclusions I draw are basically

    - human faces and voices help a lot. some of the oldest games that ended up on my list relied almost exclusively on the performances.
    - barring that, lots and lots of good text helps. spending dozens of hours with a character who's consistently written and characterized will help you get attached.
    - party-based RPGs seem to do well for that reason (duration of attachment). I love the Fallouts but it's usually just you, a cipher, encountering people briefly and not really having very involved interactions.
    - presentation matters. what might otherwise be a trite scene can be really elevated by soaring music and good staging (see nearly every JRPG on the list)
    - lots of my favorite games aren't on this list, not because they're bad, but because I feel like a lot of particularly older Western RPGs don't even try; they aimed for the head more than the heart. Fallout gives you an interesting, mystery-filled world to explore, Deus Ex feels powerfully relevant and prescient, but neither are really out there to move you per se
    - similarly, complex is not the same thing as charming or engaging, and i feel like frequently people who are writing in the game space maybe feel self-conscious about "only" being game writers so get preoccupied with making sure we know how clever they are. your chris avellones and alexis kennedys and whatnot are very tricky, and write people with interesting subtleties, but like, the various super-serious ethical ambiguities of KOTORII might make me thoughtful but don't actually get me in the gut the way that something as simple as "garrus is my buddy" does.

    Ultimately, I think that if you want emotion you have to risk ridicule and actually put yourself and your game out there and make a play for it. I think that's the secret sauce that frequently gets people very into JRPGs despite those games often being kind of rambling or incoherent. They try. They do the thing: give you the hated nemesis, and the sweet if slightly simpering romance, and the lovable buddy, and the cranky but good-hearted old man who sacrifices himself at the end of Act 2, and they set it all to soaring camera angles and thrilling strings. They refuse to be embarrassed by how shameless they are.

    I think that what a lot of game devs may not realize is that the quirks of the medium itself - the graphics that never look quite real no matter how much money you blow on them, the technical limitations, the way narratives have to bend and stretch to accommodate the realities of limited space/resources (NPCs who just have one line, or quickly repeat themselves, etc) as well as the very nature of gameplay, the fact that you might be replaying a hard bit a dozen or three dozen times - all acts as kind of emotional cotton wool that muffles and insulates the audience from the emotions on display. Games might be "immersive" and have a very direct line to some simple emotions, like me getting angry at that fucking pterodactyl, but I think accessing menus, going to the auction house, alt-tabbing to check your build, etc all kind of get in the way of connecting to characters or themes. So instead of just aping Hollywood and doing what works in a movie or TV show, I think devs are well served to maybe oversteer at least a little bit and play to the cheap seats.

    rRwz9.gif
    bloodyroarxxFuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudnavgooseTuminsyndaliselectricitylikesmeA Kobold's KoboldElkiAthenorHavelock2.0MazzyxArchAlexandier
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Fuck. Hate missing two days off work straight.

    Been sick but starting to feel better, kind of exhausted from the ordeal but I can move around but still hacking shit up and my nose is clogged up.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    🐳
    I was thinking about this concept recently too JK. Also a great post you have made here!

    I was wondering why we don't have ham fisted games about depression anymore like the 2010's had so many but maybe because people were learning how to insert authentic emotional states into games then and the only way it was allowed was to be an indie designer. I'm playing Dead Space 3 and it is emotionally also dead -- reminded me that we have come a long way since 2012 in terms of characterization in video games. So I think we HAVE made progress on authentic feelings in video games since the halcyon days of Main Character Jim Who Is Angry being the person in every game.

    JacobkoshTuminAtomika
  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I’m 99% sure that Homeworld 1 didn’t have the difficulty scaling.

    And 90% sure that nobody has ever actually finished Homeworld 2 because it had difficulty scaling.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Fuck. Hate missing two days off work straight.

    I can’t relate

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    🐕
    Gabriel Knight, all three of them, got me pretty good despite the two sequels being somewhat hobbled by also being tech demos for things like FMV gaming or proto-3D engines.

    The writing was always good, and the fact that there will never be closure for Grace and Gabriel remains a sore spot for me.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    Jacobkosh
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    I was thinking about this concept recently too JK. Also a great post you have made here!

    I was wondering why we don't have ham fisted games about depression anymore like the 2010's had so many but maybe because people were learning how to insert authentic emotional states into games then and the only way it was allowed was to be an indie designer. I'm playing Dead Space 3 and it is emotionally also dead -- reminded me that we have come a long way since 2012 in terms of characterization in video games. So I think we HAVE made progress on authentic feelings in video games since the halcyon days of Main Character Jim Who Is Angry being the person in every game.

    oh yeah I compltely agree that we've made progress, that's why the bulk of my list is from like 2008-after

    like it's not atari's fault that Defender doesn't make me think about my dead loved ones, that was just impossible to do in 1983. I think the only 80s games that could really generate feels were text adventures that were basically novels anyway. by contrast, spider-man (2018) for the ps4 got me multiple times and it's, you know, a big budget flagship console-selling title that could have made a billion bucks while still being as soulless as a Gears of Halo or whatever - but it wasn't. things are moving forward.

    rRwz9.gif
    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    The only emotion games ever evoke from me is abject horror that they've, yet again, fridged my loyal horse in the 3rd act despite my horse being immortal in all gameplay and surviving cannon fire, dragon breath, and being ridden off a 500 foot drop

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    My list would probably be something Chrono Trigger, FFVII, Metal Gear Solid, Lunar: SSSC, Celeste

    You can tell when I played video games a lot based on the above

    JacobkoshKamiroWeaver
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    syndalis wrote: »
    Gabriel Knight, all three of them, got me pretty good despite the two sequels being somewhat hobbled by also being tech demos for things like FMV gaming or proto-3D engines.

    The writing was always good, and the fact that there will never be closure for Grace and Gabriel remains a sore spot for me.

    i have immense and undying affection for the characters in those games though they never like, moved me to tears

    if I had a few million lying around I would absolutely pay jane jenson and a bunch of frogrammers to finish the story

    rRwz9.gif
    syndalisamateurhour
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I was wrong but this tracks:

    HW2 had infinite difficulty scaling, so it would always get harder no matter what.

    HW1 had five step difficulty scaling, so if you did harvest all resources on every map (something that would take hours) and capture ships you would end up out scaling it massively.

    I feel like this tracks with my playthroughs of HW1 ending up okay, whereas HW2 always ended up being literally impossible to progress through.

    The remasters based on HW2 engine and thus HW1 Remastered has the infinite difficulty scaling and more on-level resources - making it much more difficult.

    PSN: Honkalot
    Yoshisummons
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    🦐
    Absolutely lovely spring weather today

    Sunny and calm yet not too hot yet - only thing missing is that it is very early spring yet, if I look up I see snow on the mountains and little green

    But shopping is fun sometimes

    Also, so many absolutely adorable kids around, my manvaries* are burning up


    *they're like ovaries except metaphorical

    ftOqU21.png
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Hmmmm emotionally impactful games.

    Majora's Mask
    Outer Wilds
    Gone Home
    No Man's Sky (release version)
    the Halo theme

    WinkyOrcacB557
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Well the trouble started in the Mesozoic era when the first mammals

    In West Mesozoica born and raised...

    nibXTE7.png
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    The only emotion games ever evoke from me is abject horror that they've, yet again, fridged my loyal horse in the 3rd act despite my horse being immortal in all gameplay and surviving cannon fire, dragon breath, and being ridden off a 500 foot drop

    You have a little marker buddy in Descent 3 that drops markers on command to light up your path through the maze. It is indestructible, it doesn't aggro enemies, it doesn't sing or dance but I still cried manly tears when it sacrifices itself to save your ship in the end.

    Athenor
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    🐕
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Gabriel Knight, all three of them, got me pretty good despite the two sequels being somewhat hobbled by also being tech demos for things like FMV gaming or proto-3D engines.

    The writing was always good, and the fact that there will never be closure for Grace and Gabriel remains a sore spot for me.

    i have immense and undying affection for the characters in those games though they never like, moved me to tears

    if I had a few million lying around I would absolutely pay jane jenson and a bunch of frogrammers to finish the story

    I felt genuinely bad for Gabe at the end of both 1 and 2 -
    In both cases someone he felt a great deal of affection for - either love/lust or fraternal/paternal love - had to die and he had to be responsible for it in some way. The conversation at the end of 2 on the bridge where Grace tells him that he would keep being tested like this, and him hollowly stating that it was going to get easier and asking for validation was kind of devastating.

    So yeah, less tears and more just feels.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    Jacobkosh
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    🦐

    AbdhyiusAthenorcB557Havelock2.0Kana
  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    The feels when you give your waifu a rose-colored stone and she says "...thanks..." and your romance window closes

    Winky
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Hmmmm emotionally impactful games.

    Majora's Mask
    Outer Wilds
    Gone Home
    No Man's Sky (release version)
    the Halo theme

    7ce8df0c387471ddf83299bf537f70d2.jpg

    TuminJebusUDHerrCron
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    i never really get emotionally attached to game characters or stories

    i just don't feel the same way towards a bunch of pixels that i do real people on a screen in a tv show or movie

    JebusUD
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    🦐
    Tav wrote: »
    i never really get emotionally attached to game characters or stories

    i just don't feel the same way towards a bunch of pixels that i do real people on a screen in a tv show or movie

    what about books

    ftOqU21.png
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    hm, what are the games that have affected me emotionally? now i'm wondering

    I just did a certain dungeon in FFXIV: Endwalker with a friend who is playing through it, and a lot of the stuff in Endwalker has just wrecked me. I've had plenty of tears in my eyes at certain points.

    The way they've built up storylines through several expansions that now came to a close is just amazing.

    JacobkoshAlexandier
  • 21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    🦉
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Hmmmm emotionally impactful games.

    Majora's Mask
    Outer Wilds
    Gone Home
    No Man's Sky (release version)
    the Halo theme

    Real answer

    Transistor (not actually trans but still good)
    Butterfly Soup (Very queer, much yuri)
    A Story About My Uncle (Come for the swinging, stay for the touching story)
    Battle Chef Brigade (THAT CHEF LOVES HIS KIDS SO MUCH)
    One Shot (Do not miss your chance, this opportunity comes once in a lifetime)
    Sayonara Wild Hearts (Made me understand breakup stories despite not having had any at the time. unashamedly queer)
    If Found... (TRAAANS. Made me projectile cry at my screen.)
    Paper Mario: Origami King (no, this isn't a joke. No I will not spoil it.)
    Secret Little Haven (TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANS)
    Spiritfarer (The nicest, warmest, coziest game about death and loss.)
    Pyre (Choice matter (for the ending))

  • TavTav Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    i never really get emotionally attached to game characters or stories

    i just don't feel the same way towards a bunch of pixels that i do real people on a screen in a tv show or movie

    what about books

    i only read dumb thrillers for idiots

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    i never really get emotionally attached to game characters or stories

    i just don't feel the same way towards a bunch of pixels that i do real people on a screen in a tv show or movie

    Emotional doesn't mean just sad. Do you mean to say you don't feel powerful playing Doom 2016 or scared playing Resident Evil?

This discussion has been closed.