There is nothing genre writers enjoy more than having their special boy walk up to a conflict with two defined sides and say 'I can simply make everyone be friends'
It didn't appear first in Fire Emblem Fates but it's what I always associate the idea with
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Guys, stop all this fighting. We can all be friends.
Anime does love to half-ass rehabilitation for villains, even unrepetant ones, out of some kind of misguided both-sidesism. See? Throat Ripper the Orphan Torturer was a former slave. Here's an emotional backstory and montage to weep over.
There are also quite a few "BUT FRIENDSHIP" anime where the relationships are actually deeply toxic bullshit.
The human Z fighters and Gohan have interest in the state of their world and the welfare of human beings, the Saiyans never do. Vegeta blows up a stadium full of people and Goku still fights him "fairly" (aka, holding back and patronizing him) rather than putting him down like a rabid dog.
Anime does love to half-ass rehabilitation for villains, even unrepetant ones, out of some kind of misguided both-sidesism. See? Throat Ripper the Orphan Torturer was a former slave. Here's an emotional backstory and montage to weep over.
There are also quite a few "BUT FRIENDSHIP" anime where the relationships are actually deeply toxic bullshit.
Right but this is partly motivated by how villains are always cooler than protagonists so the only way to have cool protagonists is to have them be villains first and then become good
Everyone shut up I just found out the bad guy in Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad was voiced by Tim Curry. Anyway that's all back to whatever you were fighting about
Watching more MHA now, I'm quickly finding out that, while I love the world and setting, I do not care at all about any of the main characters. I just want to see more of the losers, and also All Might should show up to save the day every few episodes.
Like, Nanoha, okay, you were just hijacking magic gizmos or draining people half to death.
Symphogear, uh, villains turned protagonists? You were unleashing swarms of death monsters onto packed cities. At best, you were apathetic to mass murder.
To be fair, a big part of why Super got good, besides non-terrible animation, is that they actually finished Vegeta's redemption arc:
By actually looking for his family and Cabba, the latter being on his position before Frieza.
By aknowledging Goku as a rival and beating the ass of the body stealing asshole villain and telling him that he will never be as strong as Goku.
By refuting his own dumbass idea on the Buu saga and saying that throwing out the things that matter to him and his pride to beg for scraps of power didn't actually made him stronger.
I liked the most the Cabba bit. Trunks and Bra were raised human, but Cabba is the Saiyan heir on the start of the road that he took, and he made his business to make sure that Cabba ends up becoming a better man that he is.
Watching more MHA now, I'm quickly finding out that, while I love the world and setting, I do not care at all about any of the main characters. I just want to see more of the losers, and also All Might should show up to save the day every few episodes.
Frieren just finished a flashback that is completely unique in any anime flashback I've ever seen.
Nothing's changed, and yet we the reader learned so much more about the current circumstances. Macht was always going to do this, it's who he is, there didn't need to be some 11th hour surprise that wrenched his alignment like so many flashbacks I've seen for antagonist histories. But at the same time it explains why he did it, why he's still doing it, and why he permits Denken and Frieren to visit him while leaving unscathed.
He wants to perish to the Stone Bracelet because if he does it will mean he finally learned what "malice" is and also felt it himself. Considering everything we know about demons no wonder Frieren saw these memories and immediately said there was no chance of victory. Because victory requires a demon to understand and feel emotion, something bordering on the impossible if it's not just flat out impossible.
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.
Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.
I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.
Sorry, Bulma thought Vegeta was cute and invited him to move in with her out of nowhere, so he got automatically forgiven for everything before that point.
Sorry, Bulma thought Vegeta was cute and invited him to move in with her out of nowhere, so he got automatically forgiven for everything before that point.
tbf Bulma is like one of those women who write letters to serial killers in prison
We did just see her getting very excited watching Yamcha beat up a bunch of random karate dudes he antagonized, that had absolutely no chance against him.
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.
Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.
I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.
I think maybe a lot of people don’t define “enemy” quite as rigidly as you are here and that’s where the disconnect in this conversation is happening.
Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real
That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.
Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.
I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.
I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.
Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Why are you trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind if you think the attitude of trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind is bad?
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I watched a few episodes of Wonder Egg Priority, then the first episodes of Yuri Kuma Arashi and Kannazuki no Mito tonight.
I am just a bit overwhelmed at the moment.
+1
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
Welp. I finished the Berserk manga. It was really really good. And yeah, dude's art got way good by the end. It's funny that I was so turned off by it and didn't give his art a chance. Especially cause I'd read those early Ah My Goddess manga where Kosuke Fujishima's art was still really rough and loved that series.
It unfortunately ends on a bit of a cliff hanger. I'm kind of glad I waited till now to check it out. It would have been maddening months and months between volumes.
I also realize that Berserk is now one of only 3 manga I've read in it's entirety. Berserk, Battle Angel, and GITS.
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That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.
It didn't appear first in Fire Emblem Fates but it's what I always associate the idea with
The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.
Guys, stop all this fighting. We can all be friends.
There are also quite a few "BUT FRIENDSHIP" anime where the relationships are actually deeply toxic bullshit.
Right but this is partly motivated by how villains are always cooler than protagonists so the only way to have cool protagonists is to have them be villains first and then become good
That's pretty much how the Buu saga plays out.
Symphogear, uh, villains turned protagonists? You were unleashing swarms of death monsters onto packed cities. At best, you were apathetic to mass murder.
And then there's Terror in Resonance.
I liked the most the Cabba bit. Trunks and Bra were raised human, but Cabba is the Saiyan heir on the start of the road that he took, and he made his business to make sure that Cabba ends up becoming a better man that he is.
Almost certainly not.
Check out Vigilantes.
He wants to perish to the Stone Bracelet because if he does it will mean he finally learned what "malice" is and also felt it himself. Considering everything we know about demons no wonder Frieren saw these memories and immediately said there was no chance of victory. Because victory requires a demon to understand and feel emotion, something bordering on the impossible if it's not just flat out impossible.
vegeta is not friends with goku
no
Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.
Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.
I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.
Tastes like chicken
Sorry, Bulma thought Vegeta was cute and invited him to move in with her out of nowhere, so he got automatically forgiven for everything before that point.
tbf Bulma is like one of those women who write letters to serial killers in prison
I think maybe a lot of people don’t define “enemy” quite as rigidly as you are here and that’s where the disconnect in this conversation is happening.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.
Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?
To be fair wasn't that anime filler?
I am just a bit overwhelmed at the moment.
It unfortunately ends on a bit of a cliff hanger. I'm kind of glad I waited till now to check it out. It would have been maddening months and months between volumes.
I also realize that Berserk is now one of only 3 manga I've read in it's entirety. Berserk, Battle Angel, and GITS.