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[XCOM] is a feeling, not just a game

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Posts

  • Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Terra Invicta looks to be in a weird place. The arc of the game is to create XCOM itself before engaging aliens in space battle. Taking a dozen hours to get to your first ship seems too long. What's the balance here? Is the meat of the game the political stuff or the space fighting?

    Crusader Kings the whole game is the political stuff with the occasional war. But the goal is whatever you set for yourself, you like make your own story.

    Where does TI fit in that spectrum I'm not sure.

    It doesn't really take a dozen hours to get your first ship, it took that streamer 12 hours because he spent like first 3 trying to get Australia to invade New Zealand, got into a nuclear war that necessitated a reload, and was generally just playing with the different systems in the game rather than actually trying to progress. Which is fine, its a beta for a brand new game and he was(self admittedly) drunk and tired, but it shouldn't really be taken for how an actual playthrough is going to go.

    MegaMan001GiantGeek2020RingoElvenshae
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Every time a new 40k strategy game comes out I have to be amazed all over again that nobody’s done anything good with necromunda (I know there’s that rogue factor game recently but /fart)

    It could almost just be an Xcom 2 conversion! God I can see it so perfectly in my mind

    I desperately want a Necromunda XCOM, which is one reason I want Daemonhunters to do well, because the engine could very easily handle a hive ganger refit.

    OrcaGiantGeek2020Mr Ray
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Every time a new 40k strategy game comes out I have to be amazed all over again that nobody’s done anything good with necromunda (I know there’s that rogue factor game recently but /fart)

    It could almost just be an Xcom 2 conversion! God I can see it so perfectly in my mind

    I desperately want a Necromunda XCOM, which is one reason I want Daemonhunters to do well, because the engine could very easily handle a hive ganger refit.

    It's all just so simple, too. The OG game had experience points and new skills and easy to understand stats. You also had those great long standing injuries and then equipment and mods.

    Just bolt everything on from the original game wholesale with skin customization.

    Start with...Van Saar, Escher, Goliath, and what were those super generic gangers in purple? Cawdor?

    Then DLC the rest.

    God I want this game. One of my best, if not absolute best, gaming memories was a solid three months long Necromunda campaign with my four best friends one summer.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    DracomicronSaldonas
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    The lack of a Necromunda XCOM is an absolute travesty. Even the tabletop game has a mid mission 'base' section with wounds, experience, scrounging for stuff, etc. There's even on universe 'boss' fights they can do like the Alien lords and Chosen with the Spyrers - high nobility youths that buy themselves Predator-like high tech suits and go hunting the lowborn.

    DracomicronMr Ray
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited June 18
    I'm surprised I haven't seen talk of King Arthur: Knights Tale here.

    I haven't got the money to grab it yet, but watching some streams and it's pretty much dark fantasy XCOM with a side of RPG (character development has a lot more depth with levelling than XCOM, and every character is named, voiced and develeloped rather than random recruits) abd Daemonhunter style 'every hit lands, randomness comes from damage/crits'.

    Definitely on my shopping list. Maybe the Summer Sale will have a good discount.

    -Loki- on
    IoloRingo
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    The lack of a Necromunda XCOM is an absolute travesty. Even the tabletop game has a mid mission 'base' section with wounds, experience, scrounging for stuff, etc. There's even on universe 'boss' fights they can do like the Alien lords and Chosen with the Spyrers - high nobility youths that buy themselves Predator-like high tech suits and go hunting the lowborn.

    My buddy ran a spyrer gang for that campaign and maaaaaan fuck spyrers.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    I'm surprised I haven't seen talk of King Arthur: Knights Tale here.

    I haven't got the money to grab it yet, but watching some streams and it's pretty much dark fantasy XCOM with a side of RPG (character development has a lot more depth with levelling than XCOM, and every character is named, voiced and develeloped rather than random recruits) abd Daemonhunter style 'every hit lands, randomness comes from damage/crits'.

    Definitely on my shopping list. Maybe the Summer Sale will have a good discount.

    I hesitate to call a game with set characters an "XCOM" per se, but I'm not going to get snobby about it. Part of the joy of XCOMming is recruiting random nobodies and watching them grow to become badasses and/or die horribly. That's harder when your "recruit" is Sir Galahad, the Falcon of Summer, bearer of the red-hilted sword, chosen by God to find the Holy Grail, and who was ultimately born straight to heaven upon his death by Joseph of Aramathia.

    That said, I'm with you on picking it up when it is on sale.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    That's harder when your "recruit" is Sir Galahad, the Falcon of Summer, bearer of the red-hilted sword, chosen by God to find the Holy Grail, and who was ultimately born straight to heaven upon his death by Joseph of Aramathia.

    Oh so it's got Jane Kelly in it?

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
    DracomicronCarpyInvictusGiantGeek2020MonwynRingoCatalasestopgapElvenshae
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    That's harder when your "recruit" is Sir Galahad, the Falcon of Summer, bearer of the red-hilted sword, chosen by God to find the Holy Grail, and who was ultimately born straight to heaven upon his death by Joseph of Aramathia.

    Oh so it's got Jane Kelly in it?

    Touchè!

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Just finished Daemonhunters in Ruthless Grandmaster (Ironman) mode. I suppose Legendary is next.

    Final battle
    Split into reargard and vanguard phases, I was doing pretty well in both until my Librarian teleported everyone too close to Mortarion, who did some sort of swipe attack and outright killed two of my knights. Kaldor Draigo managed to sneak around him and slice the second to last bloom root, which gives him a fair amount of Willpower. Action moved to the rearguard and my team did well (pure damage and melee works best in the vanguard, but ranged, crowd control, and grenades are king in the rearguard), only letting a couple of Deathguard through, and those that did were pretty wrecked.

    So action goes back to the vanguard, I have two guys dead (Librarian and Paladin, my big AOE damage knights). Draigo has an ability that rezzes the entire team for 4 Willpower and all his action points; hadn't needed it before, but now's the time. He does so, and the knights stand up with full WP... which is 20 on the Librarian and 24 on the Paladin and had been 0 on each before their deaths. My Justicar and Apothicary whittle Morty's stun meter down, the Librarian Vortexes and the Paladin applies Fury of the Ancients. The Librarian Psychic Shrieks for the stun and then moves in for a Force Strike crit, selecting a +5 damage option.

    Down goes Frasier... I mean Mortarion! Roll credits. Good thing we got him, too, because there was a Deathguard dreadnought about to mess up my Justicar's life.

    Fuckin' epic.

    There have been some recent tweakings of the AI, and the Deathguard aren't as loopy as they used to be. They still like to Hazard Spray at odd times, but it's usually after their brothers have already shot at you, making it look more like deliberate crowd control tactics.

    IoloRingo
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Good to hear they touched up the deathguard AI - watching them hazard spray a corner when a knight was out of cover felt pretty silly

    PSN SeGaTai
    Dracomicron
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Terra Invicta looks to be in a weird place. The arc of the game is to create XCOM itself before engaging aliens in space battle. Taking a dozen hours to get to your first ship seems too long. What's the balance here? Is the meat of the game the political stuff or the space fighting?

    Crusader Kings the whole game is the political stuff with the occasional war. But the goal is whatever you set for yourself, you like make your own story.

    Where does TI fit in that spectrum I'm not sure.

    I think the meat of the game is the strategy layer; defending your assets on Earth while grabbing as many space resources as you can to supply your shipyards so that you can start building a fleet. The space combat seems to be mostly a case of the strongest fleet wins; there's not a huge amount of strategy once an interception starts. Its basically a joust where your ships start moving towards each other and you just have to keep your ships pointed at theirs for as long as possible until one of you is dead, or you run out of ammo and delta-V and drift apart.

    Didn't realise that the demo was timed; if you've not played it yet you may have missed your chance, depending on when you're reading this. You can buy into the beta, but if you're not an existing Kickstarter backer you can only buy in at the highest tier, and that's going to set you back $250. Which I would honestly consider if both of my demo runs hadn't been ended by crashes; I think I'll wait until some more bugs have been ironed out so that I can actually play the game as intended.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Dang if its timed Ill have to just wait.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    I played some of Terra Invicta's "skirmish" mode while I still have access to the demo, and... the space combat in this game is super weird. Like, its so different to any other form of combat in any other game that I have absolutely no frame of reference for what I'm supposed to do. You can just put your ships under AI control, and not once did I find a scenario in which I was able to do any better than just putting all of my ships on "auto".

    I'll probably make a separate thread for TI closer to the actual release, whenever that is. All the devs will say currently about the release is that it will be "somewhen in the second half of this year... with a reasonable confidence that it won't be too far into the second half". They seem like a fun bunch, very active on their discord and very responsive to feedback and bug reports. When I asked what happens when the demo time limit runs out, one of the devs said that she would be personally breaking into everyone's houses and manually uninstalling the game.

    IoloDracomicronMorninglordmrpakuRingocB557
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited June 20
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    When I asked what happens when the demo time limit runs out, one of the devs said that she would be personally breaking into everyone's houses and manually uninstalling the game.

    Those fiends!

    Edit: I went back to my old Grandmaster save on Daemonhunters and it looks like they fixed the quest that wouldn't proc when researching warp storms by resetting all of the tutorial tips for every save. So it now tells me to scope warp storms, but Ectar is also telling me how to assign knights to missions and Lunette is telling me that repair projects cost servitors. Thanks?

    Dracomicron on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    cB557RingoElvenshaeMr Ray
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    Does anyone have any experience with Xenonauts? I've not played the original X-com, but I have many many hours in XCOM and XCOM 2, including a bunch in Long War.

    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    Does anyone have any experience with Xenonauts? I've not played the original X-com, but I have many many hours in XCOM and XCOM 2, including a bunch in Long War.

    I played a little. Its lack of both polish and intuitive interface made me move on. It is very crunchy though, and is essentially a direct successor to the 90s X-COM games (which I have zero nostalgia for).

    ElvenshaeMr Ray
  • Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    Does anyone have any experience with Xenonauts? I've not played the original X-com, but I have many many hours in XCOM and XCOM 2, including a bunch in Long War.

    Its very 90s design wise, basically a remastered 'original x-com', to the point I wouldn't recommend it for anyone that doesn't have nostalgia for that original game. It has lots of finicky bits, both gameplay and UI, and intentionally has several newb traps under the guise of increasing replayability(which I personally loathe).

    Dracomicron
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)

    Oooohhh tempting.

    DracomicronGiantGeek2020
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)

    Oooohhh tempting.

    I grabbed it. Downloading now.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    Every time a new 40k strategy game comes out I have to be amazed all over again that nobody’s done anything good with necromunda (I know there’s that rogue factor game recently but /fart)

    It could almost just be an Xcom 2 conversion! God I can see it so perfectly in my mind

    I desperately want a Necromunda XCOM, which is one reason I want Daemonhunters to do well, because the engine could very easily handle a hive ganger refit.

    Games Workshop is notoriously averse for doing anything that doesn't favor Space Marines. That's the core of their audiences, and they handle their IP as if anything besides Space Marines exists basically to support Space Marines. The setting is rife with possibility for games involving other factions, but hell if Games Workshop will allow anything non-Imperial to risk pushing more plastic figures on people by dividing attention.

    I'm astonished Darktide is going to be allowed to use Imperial Guard but at the same time, that's as non-Space Marine as Games Workshop gets and it's still solidly within the Imperium armies.
    Last Son wrote: »
    Invictus wrote: »
    Does anyone have any experience with Xenonauts? I've not played the original X-com, but I have many many hours in XCOM and XCOM 2, including a bunch in Long War.

    Its very 90s design wise, basically a remastered 'original x-com', to the point I wouldn't recommend it for anyone that doesn't have nostalgia for that original game. It has lots of finicky bits, both gameplay and UI, and intentionally has several newb traps under the guise of increasing replayability(which I personally loathe).

    I gotta disagree. The user interface is good for what it's doing, it's just not the enormously "streamlined" action-tactical interface of contemporary XCOM games because the game favors granularity of control over making moves go as quickly as possible.

    It is certainly more of a direct successor to the original games, though, in that there's a fair amount of complexity. However, it also means an experience nowhere near as gameified as the new XCOM stuff. Your base layouts are important. Enemies on a map are entirely active before they see you and they don't just wander around in a big dumb clump until they detect you. The maps have elevation that actually matters beyond getting somebody to shoot from a slightly higher position. You will lose soldiers, but it doesn't sting as much because you can bring a lot more soldiers and you aren't trying to build a teensy squad of ultra-soldiers all game. And it's pretty great to get back the gameplay that rewards explosive over-compensation, such as blowing out the entire room of a house because you think that's where some shots came from. Or getting slightly annoyed that a scout vehicle just got burned down... but being far more relieved that it was the replaceable scout that ate the alien grenade instead of the four soldiers nearby.

    If you've not played the original games, watch some Youtube stuff about Xenonauts to see if the game complexity is benefit or drawback for you. It doesn't play out nearly as fast as XCOM combat, but the tactics and strategy are much more complicated than always being in cover 150% of the time and building hugely OP soldiers. I rather enjoy being able to crunch a mini-tank through an alien fortress, or flattening clusters of aliens with early-game rocket launchers.

    Ninja Snarl P on
    RingoElvenshaeMr Ray
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    EDIT: Post le duble

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Every time a new 40k strategy game comes out I have to be amazed all over again that nobody’s done anything good with necromunda (I know there’s that rogue factor game recently but /fart)

    It could almost just be an Xcom 2 conversion! God I can see it so perfectly in my mind

    I desperately want a Necromunda XCOM, which is one reason I want Daemonhunters to do well, because the engine could very easily handle a hive ganger refit.

    Games Workshop is notoriously averse for doing anything that doesn't favor Space Marines. That's the core of their audiences, and they handle their IP as if anything besides Space Marines exists basically to support Space Marines. The setting is rife with possibility for games involving other factions, but hell if Games Workshop will allow anything non-Imperial to risk pushing more plastic figures on people by dividing attention.

    I'm astonished Darktide is going to be allowed to use Imperial Guard but at the same time, that's as non-Space Marine as Games Workshop gets and it's still solidly within the Imperium armies.

    Well, there's a Necromunda FPS and a kinda tedious tactical game out there, and Mechanicus has an XCOM, so I have to believe that a Necromunda XCOM is in the realm of possibility.

  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    Last Son wrote: »
    Invictus wrote: »
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    Does anyone have any experience with Xenonauts? I've not played the original X-com, but I have many many hours in XCOM and XCOM 2, including a bunch in Long War.

    Its very 90s design wise, basically a remastered 'original x-com', to the point I wouldn't recommend it for anyone that doesn't have nostalgia for that original game. It has lots of finicky bits, both gameplay and UI, and intentionally has several newb traps under the guise of increasing replayability(which I personally loathe).

    Yeah, although it's a very good remaster. I played a full campaign and enjoyed it, but I do have original X-COM nostalgia.

    BATTLETECH games also on sale.

    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
    Elvenshae
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    Iolo wrote: »

    BATTLETECH games also on sale.

    Yes, but they have their own well-regarded thread.

    While Battletech may technically be an XCOM, it is well represented. While Wildermyth, not being about shooting space people, at least ticks the "random toons in tactical battles" box while not having an active thread.

    Seriously, people, go get Wildermyth while it's extra cheap.

    EDIT: I played a few minutes of King Arthur, and it actually feels more like an isometric RPG than an XCOM so far...I'm wandering around a dungeon collecting loot and only break into turns when battle starts. I'm intrigued at least.

    Dracomicron on
    MassenaGiantGeek2020
  • SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    Another game I didn't see mentioned there, which I was recently reminded of (and apparently I own it already) is Troubleshooter. XCOM: Anime Style.

    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Saldonas wrote: »
    Another game I didn't see mentioned there, which I was recently reminded of (and apparently I own it already) is Troubleshooter. XCOM: Anime Style.

    Not familiar with that one. How XCOM and how anime are we talking here?

  • SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    Since I haven't played it myself, how about this quote from a Steam review?
    This game takes all the best bits of X-COM 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, then goes further beyond. The characters all have very compelling backstory, which is weaved into the plot in a way that you do end up caring about all of them. The narrative is a vehicle to both provide more world-building and focus on the relationships between the characters. The mechanical customisation of these characters is incredible - it allows full granular control of a boat load of passives, and hunting down where these passives come from will provide good motivation to experience the wealth of different side-content this game has to offer.

    Saldonas on
    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Saldonas wrote: »
    Since I haven't played it myself, how about this quote from a Steam review?
    This game takes all the best bits of X-COM 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, then goes further beyond. The characters all have very compelling backstory, which is weaved into the plot in a way that you do end up caring about all of them. The narrative is a vehicle to both provide more world-building and focus on the relationships between the characters. The mechanical customisation of these characters is incredible - it allows full granular control of a boat load of passives, and hunting down where these passives come from will provide good motivation to experience the wealth of different side-content this game has to offer.

    So pregenerated characters like FF...I wonder if the mentioned side content is randomly generated missions, or if all that is preordained as well. My extremely snobbish definition of an XCOM is that most of the characters and missions be roguelite-style randomized so that each run could not be the same, given similar choices and performance.

    That said, someone in the reviews said that they had 100 hours in and was not done, so that certainly implies a... mass... of content.

  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I think @Orphane likes Troubleshooter?

    Dracomicron
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Bumping because: Steam Summer Sale:

    XCOM: Enemy Unknown - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM: Enemy Within - $7.49 (-75%)
    XCOM 2 - $8.99 (-85%)
    XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - $9.99 (-75%)
    XCOM: Chimera Squad - $4.99 (-75%)
    Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters - $40.49 (-10%)
    Wildermyth - $18.74 (-25%)
    Phoenix Point: Year One Edition - $14.99 (-50%)
    King Arthur: A Knight's Tale $29.24 (-35%)
    Xenonauts - $6.24 (-75%)

    Also Hard West is 90% off.

    DracomicronMegaMan001RingoGiantGeek2020
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Iolo wrote: »

    BATTLETECH games also on sale.

    While Battletech may technically be an XCOM, it is well represented. While Wildermyth, not being about shooting space people, at least ticks the "random toons in tactical battles" box while not having an active thread.

    I'm coming in a bit late on this, but I really don't think Battletech and XCOM should be in the same conversation. To me, XCOM is almost a puzzle game where you are dropped into a mission and there is an optimal way to complete that mission that will prevent any of your units from taking damage, and figuring out that solution is the key to the game. Battletech, meanwhile, is a game where there is no optimal solution and instead its about attrition and just managing that attrition so that the mission does not cost you more then the reward. They really are very different mindsets and attitudes towards strategy, and trying to play one like the other will lead to constant failure. I love both of them (been playing XCOM since a friend loaned me the original on something like 17 3.5" floppies back in the '95) but I really feel like they are different games and probably shouldn't be compared.

    Also, Wildermyth was my second favorite game last year, but I would file it as Tactical RPG and not a Strategy game like XCOM.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Iolo wrote: »

    BATTLETECH games also on sale.

    While Battletech may technically be an XCOM, it is well represented. While Wildermyth, not being about shooting space people, at least ticks the "random toons in tactical battles" box while not having an active thread.

    I'm coming in a bit late on this, but I really don't think Battletech and XCOM should be in the same conversation. To me, XCOM is almost a puzzle game where you are dropped into a mission and there is an optimal way to complete that mission that will prevent any of your units from taking damage, and figuring out that solution is the key to the game. Battletech, meanwhile, is a game where there is no optimal solution and instead its about attrition and just managing that attrition so that the mission does not cost you more then the reward. They really are very different mindsets and attitudes towards strategy, and trying to play one like the other will lead to constant failure. I love both of them (been playing XCOM since a friend loaned me the original on something like 17 3.5" floppies back in the '95) but I really feel like they are different games and probably shouldn't be compared.

    Also, Wildermyth was my second favorite game last year, but I would file it as Tactical RPG and not a Strategy game like XCOM.

    As I said, I'm not the XCOM police, so your thoughts on the subject of "what is an XCOM?" are perfectly welcome.

    That said, Wildermyth is totally an XCOM. It's got a strategy layer (the overland map), a tactical layer, random soldiers, unit management, permadeath...all the things a good XCOM has.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    'What is an XCOM' is a hard one to answer.

    Turn based combat and a strategy layer are cornerstones. But there's so many different ways to do it. XCOM has a lot of mechanics that others just eschew completely or expand on greatly, like the two action economy, ammo and hit percentages, random soldiers, permadeath of those soldiers, etc.

    So yeah, it's kind of a murky sub-genre to define. But the salient point I think, is Battletech has a very active thread separate to this one.

    cB557Dracomicron
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Turned based tactics games are enough I think.

    As is BT having its own dedicated and busy thread.

    No further demarkation is required.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Iolo wrote: »

    BATTLETECH games also on sale.

    While Battletech may technically be an XCOM, it is well represented. While Wildermyth, not being about shooting space people, at least ticks the "random toons in tactical battles" box while not having an active thread.

    I'm coming in a bit late on this, but I really don't think Battletech and XCOM should be in the same conversation. To me, XCOM is almost a puzzle game where you are dropped into a mission and there is an optimal way to complete that mission that will prevent any of your units from taking damage, and figuring out that solution is the key to the game. Battletech, meanwhile, is a game where there is no optimal solution and instead its about attrition and just managing that attrition so that the mission does not cost you more then the reward. They really are very different mindsets and attitudes towards strategy, and trying to play one like the other will lead to constant failure. I love both of them (been playing XCOM since a friend loaned me the original on something like 17 3.5" floppies back in the '95) but I really feel like they are different games and probably shouldn't be compared.

    Also, Wildermyth was my second favorite game last year, but I would file it as Tactical RPG and not a Strategy game like XCOM.
    XCOM is definitely geared towards puzzley fights where you turn the tide with a clever move, but deliberate management of attrition was definitely a big part of X-com.

    Elvenshae
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I just want "XCOM" to become the understood name of the genre with everybody. Like Kleenex is the name of facial tissues, even when they're Puffs.

    CarpyMegaMan001RingoElvenshaeMr RayGiantGeek2020
  • OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    Saldonas wrote: »
    Since I haven't played it myself, how about this quote from a Steam review?
    This game takes all the best bits of X-COM 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, then goes further beyond. The characters all have very compelling backstory, which is weaved into the plot in a way that you do end up caring about all of them. The narrative is a vehicle to both provide more world-building and focus on the relationships between the characters. The mechanical customisation of these characters is incredible - it allows full granular control of a boat load of passives, and hunting down where these passives come from will provide good motivation to experience the wealth of different side-content this game has to offer.
    Saldonas wrote: »
    Since I haven't played it myself, how about this quote from a Steam review?
    This game takes all the best bits of X-COM 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, then goes further beyond. The characters all have very compelling backstory, which is weaved into the plot in a way that you do end up caring about all of them. The narrative is a vehicle to both provide more world-building and focus on the relationships between the characters. The mechanical customisation of these characters is incredible - it allows full granular control of a boat load of passives, and hunting down where these passives come from will provide good motivation to experience the wealth of different side-content this game has to offer.

    So pregenerated characters like FF...I wonder if the mentioned side content is randomly generated missions, or if all that is preordained as well. My extremely snobbish definition of an XCOM is that most of the characters and missions be roguelite-style randomized so that each run could not be the same, given similar choices and performance.

    That said, someone in the reviews said that they had 100 hours in and was not done, so that certainly implies a... mass... of content.

    Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children is definitely inspired by XCOM, but it takes the base formula of squad-based tactics and basically adds an asian rpg's story and character building systems. The game is a very slow burn initially, as depending on how fast you go through the story you have only 2 out of 9 total characters in the base game for a considerable amount of time, with the game supplementing your numbers with faceless grunts until you start filling out your squad. However, as you get towards the end of the game, it opens up quite a bit and you start to unlock customizations that allow you to pull off some things that are extremely bonkers. Some of the missions can very much drag on because you are fighting entire gangs of mooks instead of the few numbers of pods a XCOM player might be used to, but aforementioned customizations can really shave your time down assuming you put together proper builds. Since it's a character rpg telling a predetermined story, mission failures are only temporary setbacks; you don't lose characters permanently unlike XCOM and maps aren't randomly genned other than enemy placement can vary as they patrol around, so it's not really a roguelite experience in the way XCOM is either.

    There's also a free dlc that adds a side story with plenty of new missions and recruits 2 characters who were only playable guests in the main story.

    DracomicronRingo
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    BATTLETECH doesn't quite grab me for XCOM cause XCOM is all about missing or making that one shot. BATTLETECH you're launching like five weapons at once.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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