I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
No we're rejecting the narrative that cops and good guys with guns are the answer because the answer fucking failed 19 kids.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
Actually I think it's supporting the opposite. That someone with a gun being there isn't going to stop a spree killer and the fact that the people who we pay to do this exact thing arent doing it is an perfect encapsulation of why.
+48
Options
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
I think it's more incredulousity at the notion that they can't even do the thing they say we need them for. If they're not there to risk their life to protect us, then what the fuck are they even for.
I agree with Beau's point above, the gear is just dress up for these assholes, they have it to feel like big strong men, they certainly didn't use any of it to save those teachers or those kids. And what's worse is I'm sure if you gave people off the street that shit and said "kids are in danger" they'd be more likely to have rushed in there.
He elaborates that an actual warrior means accepting death, not for those you have to kill but accepting that you might have to die in pursuit of your objective, and if you can't accept that, you shouldn't take that assignment.
I'm in agreement, if you're not willing to put yourself between guns and civilians, why should the state furnish you with a gun
What is the idea we just arm cops to defend themselves? If that's the case, why even hire them and put them on the street, if they're at home they won't have to defend themselves
Also I could do with less people in this thread starting a post with,
"Well you know, when you think about it, the way we talk about this problem is the real probl-"
Yes the people commiserating with each other over a horrible tragedy on a video game forum are the cause of all this strife, not the people in power or the cops or the motherfucker who shot all these kids.
Nope, it's randomguy88 on the fucking PA forums and how he started the first sentence in his post.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
To be clear I’m not blaming them for not saving the day. They weren’t the solution. The odds may have been better if they weren’t cowards, but it wouldn’t have solved the problem.
I’m more just pointing out that when we pour blood on the Altar of the Second Amendment, we’re pretty sparing with police blood. We expect toddlers to die on that altar, but not cops.
Edit: And I say this as somebody who *did* chose a job where getting shot at was part of the description. I was a soldier in a line unit. I feel more than justified in judging these cowardly posers.
I also had a Gun-Bro guy who did some tattoo work for me block me on Facebook. The reason being that he didn't want to go to a wrestling event becuase there was a terrorist threat in the town and he was afraid for his safety. I called him chickenshit because he was always crowing about the only thing that stops a bad guy with gun is good guy with gun and don't tread on me and they'll pry his 1911 from his cold dead hands.
Fucking coward. Of course these kinds of cretins won't put their life on the line to keep a psychopath from murdering a child.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
I don't think it's a particularly good gotcha to say that people shouldn't anticipate police will follow established doctrine for this exact kind of situation
The police in this situation went for gathering more guns and more cops in violation of that doctrine that says to rush in and defuse the situation. That's not expecting them to "save the day", this is expecting them to do what international and federal policing organizations have outlined as the ideal response to limit casualties
They specifically did not do their jobs and children died
It's wild that literally the most legislation that can be reasonably expected to come from this is maybe passing the universal background check law that's already in the hands of the Senate. But probably not.
+1
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
gbrwy if these people don't want to be criticized when they let 20 kids die in a hail of bullets, against their own regulations and training, then they shouldn't be parading their holier than thou "WELL IF YOU DEFUND US WHO WILL YOU CALL WHEN THE CRIMINALS BEGIN CRIMING IN YOUR HOUSE?" shit.
It's wild that literally the most legislation that can be reasonably expected to come from this is maybe passing the universal background check law that's already in the hands of the Senate. But probably not.
Its not really that wild. Like after Sandy Hook america showed we'd never do anything but heap more bodies on the tree of liberty.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
gbrwy if these people don't want to be criticized when they let 20 kids die in a hail of bullets, against their own regulations and training, then they shouldn't be parading their holier than thou "WELL IF YOU DEFUND US WHO WILL YOU CALL WHEN THE CRIMINALS BEGIN CRIMING IN YOUR HOUSE?" shit.
Yeah if anything this event shows the money is literally wasted. They had a chance to be the shining heroes in blue they claim to be and they fucking blew it so badly 19 kids and 2 teachers died.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
gbrwy if these people don't want to be criticized when they let 20 kids die in a hail of bullets, against their own regulations and training, then they shouldn't be parading their holier than thou "WELL IF YOU DEFUND US WHO WILL YOU CALL WHEN THE CRIMINALS BEGIN CRIMING IN YOUR HOUSE?" shit.
Yeah if anything this event shows the money is literally wasted. They had a chance to be the shining heroes in blue they claim to be and they fucking blew it so badly 19 kids and 2 teachers died.
It's a fucking farce.
+14
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Like, this isn't even like other mass shootings. The cops were on site.
The cops were on site 12 minutes before the shooting.
They did nothing. They beat the parents and handcuffed people scared for their fucking kids, pleading for them to PROTECT AND SERVE.
The parents weren't just pleading with them to do the job, at one point a dad was rallying them to storm the building themselves. Because a goddamn parent will throw themselves on a gun for their kids even if the SWAT team was having snacks and drinks behind the fence under a tree in full view of windows of the school with the active shooter inside.
I've asked gun people to give an exact number on how many dead children we needed before they would even consider gun laws.
The most adamant refused to even believe there was a correlation.
I've seen a few who just own it and say they won't recognize a limit because any amount is The Price Of Freedom.
+8
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I have been angry for so long I went numb to school shootings.
The inhumanity of these cops on display during this crisis is a new level of cruelty. Yes, they've beaten people, and killed people, and done nothing and allowed people to die... but this is like a microcosm of every single fucking thing wrong with American police. Too violent against the people who don't deserve it, too fucking scared to do their job when shit suddenly matters and they might feel the sting a little bit, and absolutely worthless in the single societal problem they claim they're designed to fix.
Being a parent and being forced to watch that happen to your kids. And other parents. And being violently rebuffed when you try to help.
she found a classmate who had already been shot and laid down on the dying body so the shooter would think he had already shot her.
Can we at least make sure these kids never have to pay for mental health treatment again because that image is going to feature in a lot of nightmares.
the worst part is the biden's weak ass assault weapon ban couldn't be passed again in this political climate
that's how much damage the NRA has done to this country
we are further backwards than we were in 1994
Guns are such a goddamn problem here goddamn no joke in rural Massachusetts this morning I get woken up by two explosions at 550am, the junk house two doors down got raided by the cops and FBI for being felons and selling ghost guns with ammunition(9mm pistols).
This guys Facebook of.course was shitting on the reaction to the school shooting causing renewed calls for gun control saying you can't keep people from getting guns. Aparently fucking not if a.convicted felon can just get.parts and build and sell firearms with no serial numbers.
Absolutely wild. I had cops all parked in front of my house all morning.
It's very interesting to see the difference in reaction to this shooting versus the Stoneman Douglas shooting.
Where in Stoneman Douglas the republicans and media friends love to point all the blame at one singular cop who clearly didn't do his job. And the flordia republican government is trying to bring criminal charges against the one cop.
But this shooting, where an entire police department clearly didn't do their job, people are trying to blame an unlocked door, because they cannot admit that all cops are bastards. Only singular cops can be bastards, not all of them.
I think everyone blaming the cops for not saving the day are supporting the idea of a "good guy with a gun" and the idea that this is a problem that'll be solved with more guns and more cops.
No we're rejecting the narrative that cops and good guys with guns are the answer because the answer fucking failed 19 kids.
And the truth is this situation was already a failure before the shooter killed his first teacher/student. A good cop with a gun is not the optimal solution here. The optimal solution is this school shooter never gets a gun in the first place and no amount of good guys with guns are even necessary.
Like, this isn't even like other mass shootings. The cops were on site.
The cops were on site 12 minutes before the shooting.
They did nothing. They beat the parents and handcuffed people scared for their fucking kids, pleading for them to PROTECT AND SERVE.
Absolutely worthless human beings.
According to Forbes there were exchanges of gunfire between police on at least two occasions before the tactical team ended the situation. The first time between the first two police officers on the scene (where the police officers were injured and retreated) and then a second time after more officers had arrived on the scene and tried to enter the building. And the Border Patrol tactical team weren't incompetent either (ending the situation less than 15 minutes after they arrived on the scene).
My take from this. Sure, the cops did not perform perfectly (but neither were they hiding behind their cars). And neither did the school (with security measures failing despite implementing all sorts of security expert advice, including security doors).
But that's not what you should expect either. It means that all of those active shooter plans and safety measures are not enough, they're full on head-in-sand pipedreams, because they're never going to be enough against someone with readily available military grade weapons, military grade bodyarmour and the willingness to kill and die. You got to at least limit those three components. Weapons, body armor, people willing to kill and die. Ie, implement what the US calls socialism and gun control.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
+1
Options
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Forbes is a blogging platform, not a news site
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Yeah I'm not believing a blogging site that is listing two shoot outs no one else is really mentioning and it sounds like more copaganda ass covering. "no no we tried twice we weren't just sitting there the whole time despite video showing us doing exactly that." Like we have video taken during the shooting, point out when we can hear these shoot outs.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
1) the problem is guns
2) given that we have a gun problem bad enough to gather reliable data about what to do, we have a protocol for what to do, and they fucked it up.
Yeah I'm not believing a blogging site that is listing two shoot outs no one else is really mentioning and it sounds like more copaganda ass covering. "no no we tried twice we weren't just sitting there the whole time despite video showing us doing exactly that." Like we have video taken during the shooting, point out when we can hear these shoot outs.
It aligns with what AP, BBC and CBS are reporting.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
0
Options
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Victor Escalon, Regional Director, South Texas, Department of Public Safety literally just said of cops involved: "I'm a father. I can't go home tonight and hug my kids. That hurts. The members behind me--our family members. Their kids. It's tough. It's hard." What the holy fuck.
He can't hug his kids because he had to investigate a mass murder. That is similar to not being able to hug your kids because they are dead?
Yeah I'm not believing a blogging site that is listing two shoot outs no one else is really mentioning and it sounds like more copaganda ass covering. "no no we tried twice we weren't just sitting there the whole time despite video showing us doing exactly that." Like we have video taken during the shooting, point out when we can hear these shoot outs.
It aligns with what AP, BBC and CBS are reporting.
It aligns with what they said two days ago, the current line is" we have have conflicting reports about it. After he ran into the school he shot at two cops that were outside and injured them"
So basically the cops are trying to cover their asses and claim shootouts happened and that's why they weren't letting kids be murdered. Sure I believe them its not like the Police literally don't lie about everything and bystanders weren't shouting at them to do their job that we have on video.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yeah I'm not believing a blogging site that is listing two shoot outs no one else is really mentioning and it sounds like more copaganda ass covering. "no no we tried twice we weren't just sitting there the whole time despite video showing us doing exactly that." Like we have video taken during the shooting, point out when we can hear these shoot outs.
It aligns with what AP, BBC and CBS are reporting.
It aligns with what they said two days ago, the current line is" we have have conflicting reports about it. After he ran into the school he shot at two cops that were outside and injured them"
I think they're dawning on the optics of this by now.
Victor Escalon, Regional Director, South Texas, Department of Public Safety literally just said of cops involved: "I'm a father. I can't go home tonight and hug my kids. That hurts. The members behind me--our family members. Their kids. It's tough. It's hard." What the holy fuck.
He can't hug his kids because he had to investigate a mass murder. That is similar to not being able to hug your kids because they are dead?
Has anyone told these chucklefucks that the big cowboy hat is inappropriate when you're trying to be serious?
Posts
No we're rejecting the narrative that cops and good guys with guns are the answer because the answer fucking failed 19 kids.
Actually I think it's supporting the opposite. That someone with a gun being there isn't going to stop a spree killer and the fact that the people who we pay to do this exact thing arent doing it is an perfect encapsulation of why.
I think it's more incredulousity at the notion that they can't even do the thing they say we need them for. If they're not there to risk their life to protect us, then what the fuck are they even for.
He elaborates that an actual warrior means accepting death, not for those you have to kill but accepting that you might have to die in pursuit of your objective, and if you can't accept that, you shouldn't take that assignment.
I'm in agreement, if you're not willing to put yourself between guns and civilians, why should the state furnish you with a gun
What is the idea we just arm cops to defend themselves? If that's the case, why even hire them and put them on the street, if they're at home they won't have to defend themselves
"Well you know, when you think about it, the way we talk about this problem is the real probl-"
Yes the people commiserating with each other over a horrible tragedy on a video game forum are the cause of all this strife, not the people in power or the cops or the motherfucker who shot all these kids.
Nope, it's randomguy88 on the fucking PA forums and how he started the first sentence in his post.
To be clear I’m not blaming them for not saving the day. They weren’t the solution. The odds may have been better if they weren’t cowards, but it wouldn’t have solved the problem.
I’m more just pointing out that when we pour blood on the Altar of the Second Amendment, we’re pretty sparing with police blood. We expect toddlers to die on that altar, but not cops.
Edit: And I say this as somebody who *did* chose a job where getting shot at was part of the description. I was a soldier in a line unit. I feel more than justified in judging these cowardly posers.
Fucking coward. Of course these kinds of cretins won't put their life on the line to keep a psychopath from murdering a child.
Like, fuck cops but handling mass shootings has typically been the one thing they're actually good at.
I don't think it's a particularly good gotcha to say that people shouldn't anticipate police will follow established doctrine for this exact kind of situation
The police in this situation went for gathering more guns and more cops in violation of that doctrine that says to rush in and defuse the situation. That's not expecting them to "save the day", this is expecting them to do what international and federal policing organizations have outlined as the ideal response to limit casualties
They specifically did not do their jobs and children died
3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
gbrwy if these people don't want to be criticized when they let 20 kids die in a hail of bullets, against their own regulations and training, then they shouldn't be parading their holier than thou "WELL IF YOU DEFUND US WHO WILL YOU CALL WHEN THE CRIMINALS BEGIN CRIMING IN YOUR HOUSE?" shit.
Its not really that wild. Like after Sandy Hook america showed we'd never do anything but heap more bodies on the tree of liberty.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The most adamant refused to even believe there was a correlation.
Yeah if anything this event shows the money is literally wasted. They had a chance to be the shining heroes in blue they claim to be and they fucking blew it so badly 19 kids and 2 teachers died.
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's a fucking farce.
The cops were on site 12 minutes before the shooting.
They did nothing. They beat the parents and handcuffed people scared for their fucking kids, pleading for them to PROTECT AND SERVE.
Absolutely worthless human beings.
Wouldn't surprise me if Texas just issues a gun to everyone, even the goldfish
I've seen a few who just own it and say they won't recognize a limit because any amount is The Price Of Freedom.
The inhumanity of these cops on display during this crisis is a new level of cruelty. Yes, they've beaten people, and killed people, and done nothing and allowed people to die... but this is like a microcosm of every single fucking thing wrong with American police. Too violent against the people who don't deserve it, too fucking scared to do their job when shit suddenly matters and they might feel the sting a little bit, and absolutely worthless in the single societal problem they claim they're designed to fix.
Being a parent and being forced to watch that happen to your kids. And other parents. And being violently rebuffed when you try to help.
I'm aghast at how fucking disgusting this is.
Can we at least make sure these kids never have to pay for mental health treatment again because that image is going to feature in a lot of nightmares.
that's how much damage the NRA has done to this country
we are further backwards than we were in 1994
This guys Facebook of.course was shitting on the reaction to the school shooting causing renewed calls for gun control saying you can't keep people from getting guns. Aparently fucking not if a.convicted felon can just get.parts and build and sell firearms with no serial numbers.
Absolutely wild. I had cops all parked in front of my house all morning.
Where in Stoneman Douglas the republicans and media friends love to point all the blame at one singular cop who clearly didn't do his job. And the flordia republican government is trying to bring criminal charges against the one cop.
But this shooting, where an entire police department clearly didn't do their job, people are trying to blame an unlocked door, because they cannot admit that all cops are bastards. Only singular cops can be bastards, not all of them.
And the truth is this situation was already a failure before the shooter killed his first teacher/student. A good cop with a gun is not the optimal solution here. The optimal solution is this school shooter never gets a gun in the first place and no amount of good guys with guns are even necessary.
According to Forbes there were exchanges of gunfire between police on at least two occasions before the tactical team ended the situation. The first time between the first two police officers on the scene (where the police officers were injured and retreated) and then a second time after more officers had arrived on the scene and tried to enter the building. And the Border Patrol tactical team weren't incompetent either (ending the situation less than 15 minutes after they arrived on the scene).
My take from this. Sure, the cops did not perform perfectly (but neither were they hiding behind their cars). And neither did the school (with security measures failing despite implementing all sorts of security expert advice, including security doors).
But that's not what you should expect either. It means that all of those active shooter plans and safety measures are not enough, they're full on head-in-sand pipedreams, because they're never going to be enough against someone with readily available military grade weapons, military grade bodyarmour and the willingness to kill and die. You got to at least limit those three components. Weapons, body armor, people willing to kill and die. Ie, implement what the US calls socialism and gun control.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Yeah I'm not believing a blogging site that is listing two shoot outs no one else is really mentioning and it sounds like more copaganda ass covering. "no no we tried twice we weren't just sitting there the whole time despite video showing us doing exactly that." Like we have video taken during the shooting, point out when we can hear these shoot outs.
pleasepaypreacher.net
1) the problem is guns
2) given that we have a gun problem bad enough to gather reliable data about what to do, we have a protocol for what to do, and they fucked it up.
It aligns with what AP, BBC and CBS are reporting.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.
It aligns with what they said two days ago, the current line is" we have have conflicting reports about it. After he ran into the school he shot at two cops that were outside and injured them"
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think they're dawning on the optics of this by now.
Has anyone told these chucklefucks that the big cowboy hat is inappropriate when you're trying to be serious?