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Science thread for space and earth and life and just all of that

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Posts

  • sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    Fuck, those rule.

    That should have been the palette and vibe of the Cowboy Bebop show, with a nice layer of rust and dust smeared all over everything.

    Captain InertiaDisruptedCapitalist3cl1ps3furlionvalhalla130SkeithOlivaw
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2023
    https://pubs.aip.org/aapt/ajp/article/91/10/819/2911822/All-objects-and-some-questions

    I just saw an image from this paper which is extremely cool. Figure 2 shows a bunch of information, most of which i don't understand, but i do understand the ratio between mass and radius. Maybe some of you have seen it already but i think it is very cool. Seeing how the density plotted logarithmically forms such sharp straight lines is very neat. Anyways i think it is neat and hopefully the rest of you do.

    furlion on
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  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2023
    my brain is too puny to understand most of that but I spotted the sentence "gravity and quantum uncertainty create large forbidden triangular regions where no known objects can exist" and that's a pretty cool sentence

    Houk the Namebringer on
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  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    my brain is too puny to understand most of that but I spotted the sentence "gravity and quantum uncertainty create large forbidden triangular regions where no known objects can exist" and that's a pretty cool sentence

    Ah yes

    The Board

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  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    my brain is too puny to understand most of that but I spotted the sentence "gravity and quantum uncertainty create large forbidden triangular regions where no known objects can exist" and that's a pretty cool sentence

    Everything above and to the left of the black line that says black holes is impossible because of how gravity works. As far as we know there can't be anything more dense then a black hole. Everything down and to the left of the Compton line might exist but we will never know because quantum uncertainty means we can't measure them (or something like that). So basically the top left and bottom left are the "Here there be dragons" of the universe.

    Honestly i have no idea how the eV part of the scale comes into it. Maybe something to do with the mass energy equivalence? It's a lot lol.

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    my brain is too puny to understand most of that but I spotted the sentence "gravity and quantum uncertainty create large forbidden triangular regions where no known objects can exist" and that's a pretty cool sentence

    We actually have a name for those areas.

    They are Time Knives.

  • ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    edited September 2023
    NASA's OSIRIS-REx probe is returning an asteroid sample in a few minutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdwyqctp908

    Will it be rocks? Black goo that moves on its own? Grated parmesan reggiano? Only time will tell.

    Butler on
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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Andromeda Strain, here we come!

    mrpakuhonovereZilla360
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    https://pubs.aip.org/aapt/ajp/article/91/10/819/2911822/All-objects-and-some-questions

    I just saw an image from this paper which is extremely cool. Figure 2 shows a bunch of information, most of which i don't understand, but i do understand the ratio between mass and radius. Maybe some of you have seen it already but i think it is very cool. Seeing how the density plotted logarithmically forms such sharp straight lines is very neat. Anyways i think it is neat and hopefully the rest of you do.

    Ok so I talked about how the uncertainty principle comes about previously in this post:
    Heffling wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf If you a want a mostly-lay-language walk through of a lot of quantum mechanics, general relativity, all that mind bending fun stuff, Brian Greene's books are a decent starting point (heads up, he did go deep down the string theory rabbit hole for a while there).

    IIRC the usual argument for the existence of localized order is non uniform entropy decay rates, and the idea that locally entropy can be temporarily reduced through an external energetic input, but when analysed as part of a broader or more complete system will still result in an overall increase, eg the sun blasting out mind boggling amounts of energy allows for local entropic reversal within some parts of the solar system but these local effects are dwarfed by the solar system's overall entropy measure. (The corollary is that the starting point of the universe was an incredibly compacted, highly ordered state with an unimaginable amount of stored potential energy). I have no idea how quantum complexity theory ties into this at all, but I bet its interesting.

    My favorite part of quantum mechanics is that, because I’m dumb, it all sounds like the wild ramblings of someone on psychedelics describing universal truths. like I can still kinda get what they’re laying down conceptually (if not mathematically) and see that they put the work into it. There’s just like no way to talk about it in anything but dry academic tones without sounding mad as a hatter.

    Think of it like dropping a rock into a pond. If you want to measure the speed at which the waves propagate, you would focus on a section of the pond, and measure how many waves pass through that section in a given time period. Since you know the length you are observing and are measuring the time interval between waves, you can calculate the speed as length divided by time. If you want a more accurate speed reading, you would measure multiple waves passing through. Once a wave passes through your area, though, you know longer know where it is.

    Conversely, when you want to know the position of the wave, you are just looking at one of the waves. Since you need measurements from at least two waves to establish the speed, you can't garner any information about the speed of the wave.

    Applying this analogy to electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light), and you find out that the more you know about the speed of a particle, the less you can know about the position of it. For a particle, you can measure position by bouncing off a light ray and determining where the bounce occurred at. However, the change in direction of the light also causes a change in speed in the particle.

    Conversely, to measure the speed, you use the fact that light is a wave and can travel around the particle rather than interacting with it, so you can use the wavelength of the light to determine the speed of the particle, but in this way it can't determine the position, because there is no interaction.

    This sets a lower boundary on our combined knowledge of position and speed, or to state it another way, it limits our accuracy.

    What quantum mechanics does is recognize that there is this limitation, and takes a statistical approach to any information below this threshold. I/E what is the chance that a particle is in a location or at a speed.

    This is why things like the old model of an atom with the electrons flying around the nucleus in set patterns has been abandoned, and now physicists talk about the electron cloud. Because we can either know very well the position or the speed of an electron in orbit around the nucleus, but not both.

    This leads us to the ability to model things like nuclear decay, because we can calculate the probability that nuclear decay will occur by modeling the electrons around the nucleus and calculating the probability that they will group up sufficiently such that their repulsive force against the protons in the nucleus causes the ejection of a proton helium atom (alpha decay) and this decay results in the splitting of an atom (like uranium). The reason that all very high atomic number particles undergo nuclear decay is that the nucleus has grown large enough to interact more easily with the electron cloud, thus increasing the probability of an event over a given time period.

    Mathematically this is expressed as:

    3yhgwq1jh767.png

    Where sigma-x and sigma-p are the uncertainties in position and velocity. The value of h is:

    yipkys5ws2db.png

    Using this value and applying it to photons moving at the speed of light, we can derive minimum values for length, mass, and time, and a maximum value for temperature (because molecules would have to vibrate faster than the speed of light) as:

    c6i859bauf3t.png

    What the chart is describing is that, at the beginning of the universe, we had near infinite energy (thus near infinite mass) in an infinitely small radius. The universe didn't expand to a sufficient size to cool below the planck temperature until about 300,000 years old, or roughly 10^13 seconds. You can see this in Figure 1 as this is where the blue matter-dominant region begins. This also coincides with a universal temperature of 10^32 Kelvin on the temperature scale. Prior to this are all of the conjectured mechanisms for universal growth and formation.

    Figure 2 is a plot of universal mass-energy versus radii. Items above the hubble radius (top line) are outside of our universe because of gravity (black holes), and below the Compton Limit line are outside of our universe due to quantum mechanic limitations (goes back to planck units). The mass scale in grams shows on the vertical line the 10^-4 value of mass, which if you convert kilograms to grams is the planck mass. Likewise, the vertical dashed line represents the planck length.

    It seems like they are trying to answer the question on whether our universe will expand infinitely, or collapse back on itself at some point. If it's the latter, then to an outside observer our universe would appear to be a black hole. They also hint that the key to understanding gravitational quantum mechanics is in the region where both gravity and quantum mechanics would bar something from being a part of our universe.

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    Look at John Kerbal ova here

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Heat death is what I call going outside in July heyooooo

    SirToastyToxChallHefflingZilla360
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    see it's ironic that you say that because heat death is actually when every bit of energy and matter in the universe is so spread out it is in perfect entropy, the coldest it is possible for the universe to be

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  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Oh so more like early February

    BahamutZEROThroZilla360
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    It can only do one or the other, no?

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited September 2023
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    It can only do one or the other, no?

    When everything expands enough there's no way for energy to transfer, so everything winds down with only its own energy to work from until they cease to be with the only things remaining in the universe being black holes, though they'll also eventually die on a long enough timescale.

    Madican on
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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    It can only do one or the other, no?

    When everything expands enough there's no way for energy to transfer, so everything winds down with only its own energy to work from until they cease to be with the only things remaining in the universe being black holes, though they'll also eventually die on a long enough timescale.

    Well, at least until AC manages to figure out how to reverse entropy from inside hyperspace

    JtgVX0H.png
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  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited September 2023
    Madican wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    It can only do one or the other, no?

    When everything expands enough there's no way for energy to transfer, so everything winds down with only its own energy to work from until they cease to be with the only things remaining in the universe being black holes, though they'll also eventually die on a long enough timescale.

    to answer clearly and directly: no, it is not one or the other - more the opposite. A universe that expands forever would have heat death as the ultimate fate. It's kind of a requirement. Kind of.


    also: The timescale is so long that the universe going from only black holes left to the last black hole having evaporated is essentially an instantaneous event - the black hole era will "only" last about a googool years, 10100, but would take place between 101026 and 101076 years* from now



    *to quote the pretty great note on the wiki article: "Although listed in years for convenience, the numbers at this point are so vast that their digits would remain unchanged regardless of which conventional units they were listed in, be they nanoseconds or star lifespans."

    Abdhyius on
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited September 2023
    I guess the term heat death makes people think of a death that is really hot, but it's actually the death OF heat, the death of the possibility of there being energy gathered in one place so that anything can happen

    BahamutZERO on
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    The dark souls ending of the universe

    BahamutZERO.gif
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  • destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    It can only do one or the other, no?

    When everything expands enough there's no way for energy to transfer, so everything winds down with only its own energy to work from until they cease to be with the only things remaining in the universe being black holes, though they'll also eventually die on a long enough timescale.

    Well, at least until AC manages to figure out how to reverse entropy from inside hyperspace

    SUFFICIENT DATA

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  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    I thought it was already pretty certain from experimental findings that the universe is going to expand forever and experience heat death

    nah, all three (big chill, big crunch, and big rip) have pretty sizable evidence in their favor and it really requires a better understanding of what the fuck dark energy and matter actually are and how they act

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    That sounds like wishful thinking from people who find the idea of the universe eventually winding down forever depressing

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  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    I figure we'll figure out the exact form the death of the universe takes exactly one day before it happens.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    It will be extremely obvious for ~1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years that the universe is headed for heat death so don't worry too much about it, the universe has only existed for ~12000000000 years so far. We certainly won't be there to see the final rest state, since we are part of the universe.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Nah, it'll be about a day. Maybe two.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    At least twelve

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  • destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    What a wild Thursday that will be.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited September 2023
    Very depressing, I just hold on to a naive belief that given enough time, something improbably weird will happen and start any number of new universes before ours farts itself into non-existence

    Captain Inertia on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    My posts are too good for the Heat death

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    It will be extremely obvious for ~1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years that the universe is headed for heat death so don't worry too much about it, the universe has only existed for ~12000000000 years so far. We certainly won't be there to see the final rest state, since we are part of the universe.

    This is what you get for not living in logarithmic time.

    Thro
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    The dark souls ending of the universe

    DS1 or DS3. DS1 leaves open the possibility of reigniting the "flame" someday after everything is dark, though through an unknown means by physics as we currently understand it. DS3 is more what if a "cycle" of heat death and revival is occurring and is itself trending to entropy on a cosmic scale and once it's all gone that's it forever.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    The dark souls ending of the universe

    DS1 or DS3. DS1 leaves open the possibility of reigniting the "flame" someday after everything is dark, though through an unknown means by physics as we currently understand it. DS3 is more what if a "cycle" of heat death and revival is occurring and is itself trending to entropy on a cosmic scale and once it's all gone that's it forever.

    What about DS9?

  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    DS9’s take: The Big Crunch? It’s a fake. Heat death? Don’t you understand—*it’s real*

    l3icwZV.png
  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    I 'solved' it, y'all. Why people invented 'woke-ism' You can box it up and put it in a museum basement, just like how Indy would want.


    Fig. 1. The mechanism of spin-selective crystallization due to the CISS effect and the experimental setup.
    (A) As molecules approach a surface, they transiently acquire an induced charge polarization. Because of the CISS effect, transient charge polarization of a chiral molecule is accompanied by spin polarization. The spin state associated with the charge poles is determined by the handedness of the chiral molecule. Because the magnetic surface itself is spin-polarized, it kinetically favors (akin to a seed crystal) the enantiomer whose transient spin state results in a lower-energy spin-exchange interaction. The lower-energy overlap with the magnetic surface is singlet-like (red, ↑↓) and the higher-energy overlap is triplet-like (blue, ↑↑). The energy difference between these two configurations is higher than the room temperature, kBT; therefore, the effect robustly manifests itself. (B) Schematic of the setup used in the crystallization experiments and a sample microscope image of the RAO crystals on a magnetite surface from a direct crystallization experiment. The image shows the magnetite surface as the black background and the needle-shaped conglomerate crystals of RAO formed on the surface, as well as the twinned crystals with stochastically arranged needles of D- and L-RAO, and racemic RAO in the form of a flaky powder suspended in the water column above the surface.

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adg8274

    Remember that every neuron in your brain, and every other human brain is composed of organic molecules.
    Molecules that you're completely free to use to tell me I'm wrong and full of shit.

    That's the very definition of the scientific method, bitches! B):D

    This forum is very left-leaning (spinning), though...

    Zilla360 on
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    I was hoping to not have a nosebleed on my birthday, but thank you nonetheless, I guess?

    Captain Inertia
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I would be very, very hesitant to chalk extremely complex traits like behavior up to very basal level molecular interactions like that, and in any case at absolute best those hypotheses are totally unfalsifiable so the most anyone can do is go "neat idea! anyway."

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  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    I would be very, very hesitant to chalk extremely complex traits like behavior up to very basal level molecular interactions like that, and in any case at absolute best those hypotheses are totally unfalsifiable so the most anyone can do is go "neat idea! anyway."

    I have an entirely rational dislike of that one xkcd comic about applied sciences

    3cl1ps3Zilla360Munkus Beaver
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    But have you considered simultaneous 4-sided days? Timecube has the answers you seek

    BahamutZERO.gif
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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    I would be very, very hesitant to chalk extremely complex traits like behaviour up to very basal level molecular interactions like that, and in any case at absolute best those hypotheses are totally un-falsifiable so the most anyone can do is go "neat idea! anyway."
    For example, scenario: You're wet because you stood outside in the rain.

    You're right that whatever you do next because of that is purely subjective. I just find it interesting to think about, regardless. Thanks for the critique! B)

    NH844lc.png | PSN | GACSALB.jpg My Blog |🏳️‍⚧️♥️
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