The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
WWYD?
Nickle
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I think a majority of people here can agree that the world is pretty messed up right now. We (Americans) have a completely disfunctional government, working to it's own ends. The people are left out of the process completely, aside from deciding which lucky politician is worthy of corporate kick backs. We have massive poverty and unemployment problems around the globe. Epidemics are spreading, and global warming DOES exist. Our culture is caught in a cycle of celebrity worship, glued to our TVs for the next reality show. Seriously, watch Idiocracy, that was the scariest movie I've seen in a long time. Sure, it's comedic hyperbole, but it's a little too plausible.
Actors and Athletes demand Million dollar contracts, for what reason? Why exactly do they DESERVE to be paid that much, while the people who take out our trash, or clean our sewers, people who actually contribute something TANGIBLE to our society earn so little? Why are corporate CEOs allowed to take home billion dollar salaries, while laying off employees and moving operations overseas? I know we rejected communism, but where do we draw the line?
Millions are given away on reality television shows, for guessing numbers on briefcases, or being smarter than a 5th grader, while billions suffer around the world. I bet some people WISH they were smarter than a fifth grader, but unfortunately most education around the world is lacking.
Our elected officials are not working for us any longer, they are working for the lobbyists, and the special intrests. At what point do we, as a people, take our power back. What can we do to remind our representatives that this was a government built FOR the people?
So, to get to the point. The observation of these problems is becoming big business, with shows like The Daily Show/Colbert, and several other outlets. It would seem that a majority of people do agree that we have a problem, and complain quite often, and loudly. But what can we DO, if anything? Complaining is all well and good, and trust me, I do more than my fair share, but I'm interested in what solutions could be presented. If the first step is noticing the problem, we're past that. So, now what?
tl;dr - Stuff is bad. Fix it.
Actors and Athletes demand Million dollar contracts, for what reason? Why exactly do they DESERVE to be paid that much, while the people who take out our trash, or clean our sewers, people who actually contribute something TANGIBLE to our society earn so little? Why are corporate CEOs allowed to take home billion dollar salaries, while laying off employees and moving operations overseas? I know we rejected communism, but where do we draw the line?
Millions are given away on reality television shows, for guessing numbers on briefcases, or being smarter than a 5th grader, while billions suffer around the world. I bet some people WISH they were smarter than a fifth grader, but unfortunately most education around the world is lacking.
Our elected officials are not working for us any longer, they are working for the lobbyists, and the special intrests. At what point do we, as a people, take our power back. What can we do to remind our representatives that this was a government built FOR the people?
So, to get to the point. The observation of these problems is becoming big business, with shows like The Daily Show/Colbert, and several other outlets. It would seem that a majority of people do agree that we have a problem, and complain quite often, and loudly. But what can we DO, if anything? Complaining is all well and good, and trust me, I do more than my fair share, but I'm interested in what solutions could be presented. If the first step is noticing the problem, we're past that. So, now what?
tl;dr - Stuff is bad. Fix it.
Xbox/PSN/NNID/Steam: NickleDL | 3DS: 0731-4750-6906
Nickle on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
well, that was trite, but I'm not sure where to start with your post. The governmental stuff I'll grant you, I have no idea what you're talking about with epidemics apart from malarial spread, which isn't actually an epidemic per se*, you can damn well speak for yourself with regards to celebrity culture and reality TV, and Idiocracy isn't all that, from what I've read.
Actors and athletes have million (its really not worth a capital letter) dollar contracts thrown at them without even having to be asked because their profile generates so much more money for their sponsors. They're not actually evil. Also, welcome to capitalism, where hauling bags around is indeed worth less than living your life in the public spotlight for the amusement of others, or studying difficult things for years, or creating large businesses that employ and feed people. Like garbage collectors. Yes, wealth inequality is icky and social safety nets aren't actually a commie plot, but please don't overstate your case.
Game shows are tacky, but I fail to see what they have to do with rural poverty on the other side of the planet. Emotional outburst = -1 points, even though it would be totally rad if we all picked up and went to africa armed with fat stacks of cash and hugs for everybody. For about a week.
Lobbyists are the devil, I'll give you that point back. A little regulation wouldn't go astray. I'm not sure what your definition of "taking it back" entails, but if we can torch a member of the 700 club, I'm there.
I don't know. You could try understanding a little more by going beyond the Daily Show for your entire grasp of human affairs.
*lol latin!
Do you think that celbrities would have to deal with so much attention if they didn't live the lifestyles they lead? Sure, I'm fine with them making all the money they want, but when the definition of 'giving something back' is throwing 5,000 dollars at a random charity, and then driving home to one of your six mansions, then that definition is flawed. I never said they were evil, just maybe a bit selfish (but isn't everyone, to an extent?)
I can appreciate that we disagree on many points, but just to focus on the government, sure, we're all complaining. But my point was that we need solutions, not just broad pessimism. As far as 'taking it back', I'm not calling people to arms or anything, but what can we do within the current system? The point of my post wasn't that 'omg people suck', it was 'omg people suck, what can we DO?'
EDIT: Holy snap judgments, Batman! I guess I should have expected it.
And its human to have things and compete with each other. From the time of Cavemen we have been going around making people poorer so that our lives would be easier. Yes its selfish, but then agian humans are and nothing changes that not even religion.
No, I haven't really done anything, and I never said I did. I don't know WHAT to do, and I admit that I'm no Saint, not by a long stretch. All I'm saying is that I can't be the only one who feels disenfrachised, and as far as I can see, no one really knows what to do about it. That's it, that's all.
I know that a mjority of these problems are due to basic human nature, really. But does that make them OK? Can we not change?
Also, what is being done? I don't mean that sarcastically, I'm truly interested.
well i guess we could start by forcing salary caps on the music and movie industry? that should help things out.
staving/brutal countries are just going through the motions of being new, uncivilized countries. time will sort them out as it will sort us out.
[IDEA] Brutal dictator reality shows! YES.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
As I have said. People have thier own problems to deal with before looking into the larger picture. Sorry but thats the way it is. You projecting your problems and felling "sorry for it". I suggest you improve your own live to the point where you can say "Ok, I am stable, my problems have been fixed, lets see about the others" and do it. To my knowledge no human has reached this point and none will because its not human to reach that point. We are only concerned about survival for ourselves and thats where most Human's draw the line. "If I can bring food back to my table I am happy" is what most people think.
Stop sucking yourself, for one. You talk as if you are above the Earth looking down on it. Start by acknowledging that you are "people" too, just like everyone else, and as far as we can tell, you are just as much part of the sucking as ev everyone else.
All in all, The Cat is right - you're wrong to think that nothing good is being done already to make things better, and you're wrong to subscribe all of these problems to some kind of selfishness that is above and beyond plain old human behavior.
Those game shows you despise play their role. They employ hundreds of people, provide exposure for sponsors who also employ people. It's not like the banker on Deal or no Deal is giving away money that would have gone to anything more "constructive".
I'm currently in the UK, and the "cult of Celeb" is insane. As far as I'm concerned, you cant take a 17 year old footballer, or some skinny pretty socialite that wears next to nothing, give them more money in a week than most people see in a lifetime, adore them and raise them above other people because they are pretty or can kick a ball... And then cry foul when they dont blossom into well rounded, caring people.
Yes, I'd love to think that if I were that privileged - I'd spend my days making the world a better place. But I cant bring myself make the leap between "Wow, brad was pretty ace at playing Tyler Durden" and thinking that I'm in any way qualified to judge how he handles fame.
/rant.
If we gave money to the people that deserved it, I'd conceed the point. Until that time when Nurses, Ambulance Staff, and Policemen are paid as much at Paris Hilton... I'll quietly sit here trying not to judge, but never buying a tabloid mag.
Maybe we could raise taxes on the wealthy (if our leaders weren't wealthy, themselves, that is), and put that money back into the system? All I'm doing here is demonstrating my ignorance, and asking for your help. That's the point, if you missed it. Maybe we could eliminate the loopholes that allow corporations to avoid paying their share? Maybe eliminate the Lobby system? If you have any ideas, please share.
What can you do? Depends on your income level and how much time you have. But once agian you will do nothing but make yourself happy which in itself defeats the point. There will always be suffering, there will always be murder and such. Thats somethign we can't help with. Live is not a game where if you defeat the evil guy the world will be saved. There will always be evil as there always will be good and there will always be points where there is not clear area of right and wrong.
Those are all great things, and before you judge me, you might want to know that I do volunteer a good deal of my time with youth baseball, we've even adopted a highway (!). I do monitor the things that I watch (and I mostly avoid network TV, and reality television because of this). I HAVE donated to several charities (not $5,000, you know, because I can't throw around that kind of cash). All these things are great, and they do make a difference. I just don't think it's quite 'enough'. I don't FEEL like I'm really accomplishing anything, in the grand scale, and I doubt I'm alone in that. If you don't think there's a severe problem with the balance of wealth and power in the world, that's fine, but this isn't the thread for you.
As far as game shows 'serving their purpose', maybe they could just grab homeless people off the street for a chance at the money? Maybe Deal or No Deal could have a 'random poor people' week? I don't know. Yes, they do employ people, but so would relief efforts in New Orleans, or around the globe. Is the money really better served for use as entertainment?
Sorry about that, it's a joke because I'm pissed they got Mario Strikers before us. :P Also, it would seem that 'hating the US' is not a problem that is exclusive to US residents.
1. Decide what's really important. What do you really, truly care about? What do you truly believe will lead to meaningful changes? Knowing the world sucks doesn't help. It's knowing HOW it sucks, that's important.
2. Find people who care about the same things you do. Talk to them. Organize. Protest.
3. Find people in power who care about the same things you do. Talk to them. Maybe, hopefully, you can convince enough of them to do something worthwhile.
4. ?
5. Profit!
Please pardon me for the ultra-lame Internet meme at the end. I've just never had a chance to actually use it.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
That's pretty much my point. 'Knowing the world sucks doesn't help.' Finding people who care about these things, is also not a problem, but organizing and protesting seem to be much tougher hurdles. Everyone jokes about how our system is 'in the shitter', but the real problem seems to be getting anyone to do anything about it. Myself included, because I'm a lazy bastard.
And don't get me started on finding people in power who care about these things...
I think my real problem is that I've been re-reading alot of Vonnegut since he died, and it's making me restless and bitchy. :P
Another question: Aside from hackers, with the growth of the internet, what is keeping us from having more control over the actions of our government? Why can we not be involved in the votes that affect our country, aside from (most times) voting for the lesser of two evils?
This is such a fantastic line
We call this 'internet activism.'
Guess how useful internet activism is.
I liked your earlier quote, but this one is completely the opposite of what I'm trying to say. I know that there is no easy fix, and I know that 'internet activism' isn't accomplishing anything. What will, though? That's the point.
And please, refrain from telling me what I do or do not do. Why so quick to judge?
As your Confucious quote read, we need to change ourself on a personal level to change the world. As the Cat said, most of the problems are a result of human nature. But is there nothing that can be done to change this? Can we not find better role models than Paris Hilton? Or are we just trapped within our natures, destined for ruin? Yes, we're primates with delusions of grandeur, but does that keep us from living up to our own hype, at least a little bit?
Sports/Media are probably the two primary forms of entertainment in this country, and as such generate tons and tons of money. The actors/athletes who bring the views/fill the seats at the stadium then demand more money because they have the ability to earn more for their investors.
It's no different in any way from getting out of college, working for 5 years at an entry level job and then demanding 10k more when you apply for a senior-level job and 20k more when you become a team lead, not to mention periodic raises along the way. It's the same principal on a different scale.
Yes, they get paid alot as a reult of the industry they are involved in, but should the industry itself be so inundated with money? Are there not other industries that should be rewarded? Do movies really cost so much money to make, or is the cost just inflation based on the industry? Would they cost so much if the actors didn't get $20 million, and the cost of materials used (lights, cameras) weren't high because they CAN be? Like our government spending 10 million on a hammer. It doesn't make the hammer any better, but the government can afford it, so that's how much it costs. The cost of technologies steadily decreases, but the salaries of those in the industry, and the cost to the consumer have both risen. Or rather, consumer costs that remain steady, but would be cheaper if it weren't for the aforementioned high salaries.
Human nature aside, our government is something that we CAN change. I think most would agree that the current system is not working, and a great deal of our elected officials have been corrupted, by power or money or both. If a majority of people are unhappy with the way our government works, why do we have no power to change it?
Yes, actually, it should. It has the most widespread appeal and brings in the most dollars as a result. I don't really see what your argument is. Sure, other industries are important, but their employees should be paid on the scale of what is financially sound for the industry. If I'm a doctor, I can't really claim that I should be getting paid 1 million a year because my work is important if I'm not bringing that sort of commercial success to my employer.
EDIT: oookay, you edited in a whole bunch of stuff in while I was responding. In any case:
The government spending 1 million bucks on a hammer would mean that they are covering up the cost of doing something without alerting the public, ala independence day. I seriously doubt they spend money on a movie on anything which has a cheaper but equally functional counterpart.
The actors themselves get paid that much because the studio is aware that having such and such actor in the movie will mean equivalent commercial success for the movie. The fact is people become infatuated with certain actors and will go see whatever they are in (Like people who saw employee of the month because they like Dane Cook and think Jessica Simpson is hot, despite the fact that there wasn't a single goddamn funny moment in the movie). They are paid accordingly.
Movie with C-List actor = X Tickets Sold, Movie with A-List Actor = Y Tickets sold, Y > X, therefore A-List Actor gains much larger paycheck than C-List Actor.
So, actors who entertain are more important than doctors who save lives? I love to be entertained, myself, but I can't agree with that, as I'm a pretty big fan of staying alive, as well. You might say I like it even more than Scrubs. 'Commercial success' is the true way to measure something's value? Maybe that's true, but should it be?
I'm not saying we should pay actors and athletes minimum wage, but I'm sure $5 million a year would be more than enough to support your family. Unless you're Latrell Spreewell, I suppose. :P
How far do we let the balance go, of it's own accord. Until actors are making $100 million a film, and we have no money for education, etc? Where is the line? Do we just keep printing more money, and gathering more debt?
No, I'm afraid your missing my point. Doctors should get paid a lot on the scale of the industry they are a part of. Actors are paid a lot because the studio makes a lot off of the ticket sales because the actor is in the movie.
I don't think actor's salaries have an appreciable impact on the health care industry and public education, because presumably you are taking care of your family and your community before you are buying movie tickets.
EDIT: It isn't like, say, the studios pay Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie $200 Million for flop, and then demand the health care industry pay the tab.
You, in return, are missing my point. We've already covered the fact that entertainers make a lot of money because their industry makes a lot of money. But the worth of the industry is something we created. Film doesn't cost millions of dollars, but that's the cost assigned to it because of the industry. As the industry gets richer, prices and salaries just keep rising to suit. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you catch my drift.
The industry has such a value because we assign it that value. If actors get paid alot because we pay $10 a ticket, couldn't they then be paid less, and we pay $5 a ticket? Instead the industry just keeps growing, unchecked.
I'm open to a lot of ideas, but I'll admit that I'm not going to be convinced that anyone NEEDS that much money to survive. And if, for some reason, they are paying $100,000 every week to eat, then it's only a reult of the fact that they CAN pay that much.
If you think that the cost of making a movie isn't inflated by the increased income of the industry, you're delusional. The costs of the materials involved is determined by the industry, and rises with it. The actual things don't really cost that much, but the price that is demanded can be demanded because of the inflation of the industry. Movies cost more money to make, because the price of the goods is so high, and the cost of goods is so high because the industry is so rich. And on and on.
We also need people to get off their asses and actually make their presence known. We have a largely self-defeatist attitude in this country towards voting. "Why vote? It won't change anything." If you don't vote then it sure as hell won't change. Back in later 90s or 00s a fairly high up Democrat was asked why the party was moving to the right on taxes, social services, etc. and his answer was that "poor people don't vote." Politicians cater to those who can get them elected, if you don't show up to the polls don't expect any favorable treatment from politicians. When the largest (world wide) anti-war protest in history was staged, some of it outside the White House, Bush famously looked out the window and said, "None of them were going to vote for me anyway." He knew, come re-election time, that his team could mobilize a larger group of voters than the Democrats because of how apathetic most of America is.
*sigh* No, what I'm saying is that the industry is given more value than it's worth. Entertainment is great, and yes, it is widespread. But should we be OK with the rising costs of the industry, and the rising cost to us, as a result? When is enough, enough? When we're paying $20 a ticket, so the people involved can have MORE money? How about $30? $40? Yes, the cost of entertainment is high, but is that really a result of the actual cost, or a perceived cost, and what they can get away with? I love my television, movies, and music. I'm more than willing to pay for these things. But how much? Do you really think that it costs as much as they pay, or are the costs so high because the industry can afford it?
EDIT: That's what I'm talking about Accault. Thanks for that. Like Jin said, this is 'internet activism'. I'd like to think, however, that any form of activism is better than apathy. Most people can recognize that our Government isn't functioning properly, the problem is getting off of our lazy asses and doing something about it. And trust me, I'm including myself in that group, which is why I made this thread. I'll freely admit that I've become disenfranchised with the system, to the point of not voting last election, which makes me the enemy. I've noticed that I've become pretty apathetic myself, and pessimistic when it comes to my ability to change anything. I'm making a concerted effort to change that about myself, and this is the result. I'm getting sicking of accpeting things as being 'just the way it works'. I'm growing tired of being apathetic.
Thats pretty much my line of thinking. Are you happy with your current life? Do you preform no evils everyday? Seeing how one cannot change Human Behavior that is imbedded since we evolved/created (Whatever, I have no thought on this), we cannot reach enlightenment and thus we are forced to do stuff that condems us to continue the cycle of repression and having an advantage over others. Unless you're not human, there is nothing to be done.
Unless of course you set your heart straight which then agian falls in the cycle.
It sounds nice, but it's basically family values conservatism. Fuck that.
Also, I fucking hate "solutions" that start with people just being "better people". I mean what the fuck is that.
You still seem to have this all backwards. It costs as much as they pay because it's as much as they'll pay.
The result ought to be you actually changing some of those things, though. Not just an Internet rant. That's my advice: vote, do something, donate, contribute, organize, stop paying for things you think cost too much, make your own movies and let people watch them for free, something.
It's so high because people will pay it.
What are you, entitled to entertainment you can't afford or something? Want some cheap tickets mailed to you because you deserve them?
I'm not satisfied with this answer. We are not completely unable to change our nature. This is the same type of thinking of a certain major religion that says that we are born sinners. It offers an excuse to be apathetic. Saying 'Changing the way I live can't change anything' or 'We can't do anything, it's just human nature' is the same as saying 'I'm not going to vote because I can't change anything' (a crime I admitted to, myself). I am unwilling to believe that we are so completely powerless. Are we so far gone that there is nothing we can do? Do you really think so poorly of humans? Yes, our history shows that this pessimism is well founded, but is there nothing we can do? So we're just doomed, then?
EDIT: You're making my point for me. The industry is so rich because we are willing to pay so much for it. Why? Why is it worth so much? Why are we OK with the industry being so rich? It's the same question as 'Why are we OK that our government is so fucked up?'. As for the 'changing' Yar mentioned, I am making those changes (trying anyway). But this isn't about me, and it never was.
tShinto: But WHY are people willing to pay it? Why are we so obsessed with entertainment. Like I said, it's great, I love it. But why is it worth so much more than any other industry that benefits mankind, in more tangible ways?
EDIT: No, but figuring out the cause of a problem is a good step to solving it. House is a good show to watch. I'm not sure how asking why things work the way they do is a problem?