As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

[Destiny 2] Wizards of the Ghost

1747577798085

Posts

  • Options
    rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    I've played Destiny since D1 launch, and I've become so, so, so burned out by their seasonal models. It's an absurd amount of time sink for an unbelievably small amount of content, all while functionally ending PvP support and mostly ignoring the other "core" activities. And that was before trying to monetize fucking dungeon passes, event passes, etc. Lightfall was such a dud that it made it easy for me to practically walk away, and really the only things keeping me invested at all are the friends I raid with and some passing desire to see how the story wraps up.

  • Options
    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    For me a big part of the issue is there's no real happy middle for PvE content. There's stuff that's a joke, or there's GM level evciseration. Which a certain amount can be fun, but in general if I just want to shoot shit, I'd prefer more happy middle type stuff.

    The sheer lethality of the game on GM/Master dungeons etc is just not fun - it turns the game into an arms race of builds that can either nuke or otherwise ignore content (Warlock turret spam), and shuts off the fun movement stuff for "hide in a box".

    Glassway, I'm looking at you here.

    Given that the high level store being fun because of the sheer lethality, the loot grind stops being fun because what purpose is it serving? It also exacerbates the whole useless exotic issue - when you're pushed by the game to Super optimise, a lot of fun but only okay stuff gets left on the floor... And that's not even touching things like blight Ranger which I still don't understand

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
    Switch: 0293 6817 9891
  • Options
    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    That was my biggest issue for the last year. There are a lot of really cool, super optimized builds that create really fun combat loops with abilities. But almost all the PvE content is either so easy that there's absolutely zero need for that kind of optimized, fun build, or it's so punishingly brutal that you can't actually use the fun ability loops of those builds because that level of gameplay devolves into hiding behind cover and plinking.

    There's just very little solid middle ground where putting together a fun build actually shines. It's basically limited to like, older raids where that can kinda work? And once you have most of the rewards you want out of those, they lose a lot of their shine to keep plugging away at. To say nothing of actually getting people together to run them.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • Options
    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    rndmhero wrote: »
    I've played Destiny since D1 launch, and I've become so, so, so burned out by their seasonal models. It's an absurd amount of time sink for an unbelievably small amount of content, all while functionally ending PvP support and mostly ignoring the other "core" activities. And that was before trying to monetize fucking dungeon passes, event passes, etc. Lightfall was such a dud that it made it easy for me to practically walk away, and really the only things keeping me invested at all are the friends I raid with and some passing desire to see how the story wraps up.

    This is exactly my issue. I don't have the time to log in for 10 hours every week doing some bullshit tasks. This game was great for me because I used to be able to binge for the first couple days after the expansion dropped and then enjoy raiding for the rest of the time. And when a cool PvP event hit or I had space for Trials, I could take time to enjoy it.

    But this idea of needing to spend hours every week doing what they tell me to do in order to progress a pass that contains sparse rewards while the activities I play in have garbage rewards compared to earlier Destiny iterations and it feels like it just punishes me for not living my life playing this game.

    They messed up big time by trying to force engagement the way they did.

  • Options
    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    I guess I'm the dissenting voice here.

    My level of engagement during Witch Queen went way up compared to prior years. I found the seasonal storyline model to be extremely compelling and the addition of "to do" checklists allowed me to have easily identifiable goal(s) that I could work towards. My weekly playtime would be to knock out the story, then play towards the weekly challenges. I found myself logging in for hours each night and enjoying every minute! It wasn't perfect but it was no less entertaining then watching something on netflix and pretty much all of my gaming time went into Destiny 2.

    The 2.0 reworks of abilities fed into the power fantasy and I found myself able to access portions of the game that were previously beyond my skills and abilities. Legendary lost sectors and Legendary campaigns were an all new aspect for me and I was loving it! I was suddenly able to solo Heroic Public Events, which I had never been able to do. It didn't take a degree in rocket surgery to put together a pretty amazing build for any class and subclass and I was having fun playing with new abilites that I'd never been able to use effectively before.

    And then... Lightfall.

    The story is ridiculous. The open world area of Neptune is overtuned and felt lifeless. The core characters feel "throwaway" and don't add to the D2 lore in any meaningful way. The post campaign goals were not compelling and even as a completionist I couldn't be bothered. (Partly because of the overtuning, partly because of the lack of meaningful rewards, and partly because the effort involved did not really make it worth 'ticking the box'.) Several of my IRL friends asked about Destiny (because their guilds/clans form other games were coming back for the new raids or dungeons) and I had to advise them NOT to play. The game just wasn't (and still isn't) in a compelling state right now. I did keep playing because the pinnacle cap was finally accessible for me. I made it a goal to get 1810 on three characters and it took two and half seasons to get there. I am still 'ticking the boxes' for the seasonal challenges and I have gained one Guardian Rank per season - more boxes to tick!

    But at this point I'm more or less in maintenance mode with Destiny. I've hit 90% of my goals for the season and I'll likely only be playing to finish those out. Without exaggeration I've got three weekly challenges to complete, one raid (Crota's End) and one dungeon (Ghosts of the Deep) and that's it for the season. I haven't pre-ordered Final Shape. Bungee really needs to convince me that they know how to make a game again before they get more money from me. Next season, regardless how long it is, is going to be make or break for me.


    26904.png
  • Options
    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    I only got into Destiny like last year, so it's been very funny slowly ramping up my engagement with it until the point I've bought all the old expansions still available, along with Lightfall and the full years pass and all and now... this.

    I'm gonna keep playing for the remaining season at least, because I've already paid for it so I may as well. After that... well it'll probably depend on how long between the end of the season and Final Shape coming out, if I can hold off on needing to know what happens next.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • Options
    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    For me, the big draw with Destiny was the story and setting. On the surface of it things seem really basic - you are the Guardians. You live in the City. You use the Light. You fight the Darkness. It's a light vs darkness story - that's some basic, basic shit.

    But they made it really interesting. All these high-concept sci-fi elements. Light the cosmic manifestation of variety, Darkness the cosmic manifestation of simplicity. A light v dark story with an actual new creative spin on things. I dig it.

    I really want to end the story on a high note and I'd be super fascinated to see what a follow-up 'saga' would actually involve.

    It sucks that all this is going down.

    H9f4bVe.png
  • Options
    RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    I for one am grateful to Starfield and Phantom Liberty for breaking the cycle. I forgot what having FUN playing a game was versus chasing a decimal point.

    I have played Destiny since the first stress test.

    It's 50/50 and pick 'em if I come back for Final Shape to see how it wraps up. I didn't even touch this season.

    It's astounding how much good will they've burned.

    So sorry to those who have lost their jobs.

  • Options
    DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
    So, Bungie has a news article up entitled "Our Path Forward."

    ...and I cannot read it because the page straight up will not get past its loading screen.

    Now, I know that this is likely just due to traffic.

    But this is still so incredibly, unintentionally, close to satire that I 'm finding it pretty dang funny.

  • Options
    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2023
    we had another internal all-hands meeting today to discuss something similar and without going into too much detail, yeah it pretty much felt like a real-life version of "page not found"

    Houk the Namebringer on
  • Options
    DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
    man, I'm sorry to hear that, Houk

    for what it's worth, I still adore this game and hope things wind up going okay

  • Options
    DacDac Registered User regular
    Yeah this big sucks for everyone. Well, apart from the management who will probably give themselves a record bonus.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • Options
    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Here's the text of the article:
    This has been one of the most difficult weeks in our studio’s history, as we’ve parted ways with people we respect and admire. We’ve spent this week supporting one another, including those who are at the studio, as well as friends and colleagues who no longer are.

    We want to acknowledge the feedback and concerns you have about Lightfall and recent Seasons, as well as your responses to the reveal of The Final Shape. We know we have lost a lot of your trust. Destiny needs to surprise and delight. We haven’t done this enough and that’s going to change.

    To us the path forward is clear: We need to make The Final Shape an unforgettable Destiny experience. We want to build something that will be regarded alongside the best games we’ve ever made – a fitting culmination that honors the journey we’ve been on together for the past ten years. Forsaken, The Witch Queen, and The Taken King – these are the standard bearers we aim to live up to.

    We are intensely focused on exceeding your expectations for The Final Shape. Destiny 2 has more than 650 dedicated teammates pouring all their energy and expertise into delivering this epic moment and its subsequent Episodes.

    In the weeks ahead, you’ll be hearing more from us about what’s next on the short-term horizon, beginning with our next Season in late November. Afterwards, we’ll begin to unpack our team’s bigger, bolder, and brighter vision for The Final Shape, as well as the bridge we plan to build to take us all out of this Darkness and into the Light.

    See you starside,

    The Destiny 2 Dev Team

  • Options
    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited November 2023
    I don't know how many other players are like me, but the irony for me is that had they not moved to a seasonal model, I'd probably still be playing and thus they would have made more money from me.

    I didn't need seasons to keep me engaged in D1, and it was specifically the initiation of seasons in D2 that just killed it for me. I hate the pressure, I hate the fomo, I hate the model.

    I played Forsaken like I needed it to survive. I played because there was fun things to do, things to explore, discover, to just dick around with. There weren't really any timers, or end dates, or anything like that. If I couldn't play, it was fine, I could just jump back in later, and didn't need to feel like I was missing something. The anxiety of the seasonal leveling, of the seasonal ends/starts, with functionally all of that content going away, made me want to not play. I'd rather just let it go, than feel the stress of "putting in the time".

    Hell, it wasn't even the cost of the seasons. If they had dropped the content of the season, without any fear of it expiring, charged $10 or something, I would have paid every time, and would probably still be paying, and buying the full expansions.

    The only time I can handle seasons, mentally, is if they're super casual (like Diablo 3), or cost nothing and are pretty long and don't have expiring gameplay tied to them (like Fallout 76). I don't know if I'll ever do another Diablo 4 season, if they maintain the whole leveling unlock thing they've got. I know it's just the standard now for live service games, but it's oppressive.

    And I know developers know that it's not sustainable as a model. They have to know. They design how long it takes to complete a season, and know that the average person can't do that and play virtually any other games, so the best case scenario for the seasonal model is that players only play your game. What happens then? The rest of the industry dies. You lose the freedom to develop and deliver new games, and you kill imagination and creativity within development. Maybe you make money, but it's just a burning candle, you can't maintain your playerbase forever, you can't create an audience out of nothing, so eventually it will die, but you've backed yourself into a financial and creative corner.

    It is a business model that can do nothing but bleed out the players. Maybe you'll get more money out of some than you would with a more friendly business model, but even those players will eventually burn out and you'll have lost them as customers too. How many people will trust the next Bungie release after the last couple years of Destiny 2? Some, obviously, but as many as had they not burned so many bridges? How many players outside of the Destiny ecosystem might have been potential customers for Marathon that will likely pass or at best wait and see, simply because of what they've seen from the outside here?

    When Bungie went independent, it seemed like maybe they could stop their course. But it seems clear now that course was never set by their parent companies, but from within. And that's a massive bummer. Even if they started the path of Destiny with good intentions, either via greed, pressure, or just losing sight of the point of making games, they just took the wrong path at every opportunity.

    Whatever convinced them that Forsaken "overdelivered", they need to shake that nonsense off. It was one of the best expansions of a video game in history. It saved their game, hands down. It was what they needed, and what they needed to continue with. If it takes moving to Destiny 3 to fix their engine and development pipeline so that they don't need to sunset content, fine, do that, move on. Maybe it's for the best. Rebuild your reputation, the hard way. Do it right, do it well. Stop trying to bleed your players. Stop trying to manipulate their emotions, prey on obsessiveness, on fomo, on addiction. Stop the seasons, stop the silver shop, just stop. Make some really excellent cosmetics with each expansion that takes some investment to get, but not on a timer or deadline. Attach some to a quarterly "booster" pack with a new game mode or a revamp of one, new story bits, a new pvp map or two. Let players spend money when they want, and let them reward good content by doing so.

    Yeah, you might not make as much money, at least in the short term, as you would with the current models. Or did anyway, that seems to have slipped away if the current financial results are any indication. But you'll be rebuilding your reputation, earning players trust. Earning developers trust. You don't need to be the biggest name in the industry, but as I think Bungie (and both Blizzard, Square Enix too, among others; by losing it) should well know, being one of the most trusted names is better for the long term health of your company and the industry.

    Maybe being bought by Sony precludes this as an option, I dunno. If so, that sucks. Bad. Maybe buy yourself out again. I doubt Sony wants ya'll to fail, and while maybe they'll be bummed they're not getting the live service cash cow gods they thought they were, I'm willing to bet they'd also be happy with just a good studio making good games. They have a few, they seem to know what that's all about.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • Options
    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Forsaken "overdelivered" because it had the money and dev studios of Activision backing it, they couldn't do that again without them.

  • Options
    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    This all sucks. But lightfall being turned into a weird pointless money grab instead of the epic conclusion of destiny’s story sucked and part of me is glad the company has consequences from that awful move

    But the individuals actually suffering the consequences likely are very far removed from the idiots so that blows

    Was looking forward to wrapping up destiny and excited for marathon and matter (cause I’m straight over destiny in any meaningful way even before this) but now I bet those two games are complete busts and we’ll end up getting zombie destiny 2 for a while and then a shitty desperate destiny 3 (which will just be a bigger destiny 2 dlc with destiny 2 content gone not an actual sequel)

    616610-1.png
  • Options
    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular

    If I got to choose, Final Shape being good and Bungie becoming less shit as a business would be my pick... but crashing and burning pretty directly from the consequences of Lightfall would be deserved, though.

  • Options
    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    edited November 2023

    If I got to choose, Final Shape being good and Bungie becoming less shit as a business would be my pick... but crashing and burning pretty directly from the consequences of Lightfall would be deserved, though.
    Management said other levers were looked at to avoid layoffs. When employees asked if one lever was executive compensation, they were told no, and that it would not happen at the company. (Update: Post-publication, Bungie responded saying that CEO Pete Parsons and some other executives previously forfeited annual bonuses before the layoffs. But staff was not informed this happened until yesterday. The sum total of the bonuses given up is not clear).

    oh the bonuses, thank god, otherwise they might not make their extravagant normal salaries

    edit: man the rest of those bullet points are so, so depressing.

    cursedking on
    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
  • Options
    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I'm hoping that Sony forcibly retires the problematic Old Guard over the next year or so, and then we get the best Bungie has been for the last 15 years.

    It's either that or they file Bungie and Destiny and Marathon into a dank basement filing cabinet next to Jumping Flash.

    But they paid 3.9 bil for this shit so hopefully they don't give up on it.

  • Options
    ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    From the Tassi article:
    They want The Final Shape not just to be as good as Forsaken or The Taken King but better. Hence the “good not great” feedback that will be polished during a delay. It needs to be the best, and it’s viewed as the key to turning things around.
    Given what we've seen out of Bungie for The Final Shape specifically and for their output over the last couple years generally, this is crazy for them to expect.

    The Taken King released with a whole new enemy faction, a patrol space, an excellent main campaign, follow-up campaigns for the House of Wolves and Taken War, a huge raid, lots of new Crucible maps and new strikes, a bunch of new legendary and exotic weapons and armor, brand new subclasses for each class, and coincided with a massive overhaul of Destiny's gameplay systems.

    Forsaken was similarly feature-rich. A whole new enemy faction, two massive new patrol spaces with lots of activities, a great campaign, new Crucible maps and strikes, the whole new Gambit mode with its own maps, the very first dungeon, a huge raid, new legendary and exotic gear, brand new supers for each subclass, and similarly coincided with a massive overhaul of Destiny 2's gameplay systems.

    From what Bungie has revealed, The Final Shape is going to sputter to the finish line with a campaign, raid and patrol space of unknown (but probably very high) quality. A single notable new enemy unit. Probably a single strike. A smattering of legendary and exotic gear. Three arbitrarily selected subclasses will get new supers and aspects. I'm sure the content in The Final Shape will be good, but the offer is meager in comparison to biggest expansions of the past. This will make for a good final showing for Destiny 2, but not so much a new beginning to turn things around.

  • Options
    Zombie GandhiZombie Gandhi Registered User regular
    I'm not even sure what I'd want from Destiny at this point. Like, on the one hand, it's not as enjoyable as it used to be. On the other hand, the expectation that a single game should remain satisfying for 10 years was always a bit absurd.

    After D2 bombed hard and my first raid team broke up, what got me back into the Destiny 2 was Warmind and Redrix. And then Forsaken came out, and even without a resurgence of my old team, there was enough compelling content to LFG Last Wish, and hang with PA folks in Crucible. And I think between some compelling PVE experiences and weapon chases and the ongoing fun of Crucible, Destiny 2 remained enjoyable. Eventually we formed a semi-stable Raid team, and Beyond Light eventually materialized, and DSC was a great time, and Trials was compelling, and Shatterdive eventually got nerfed. And I think that was the best part of D2 for a while, when we had a solid regular team both for PVE and Crucible shenanigans.

    Bungie leaned hard into Seasons, which at first was enjoyable, but I think eventually became the problem. Seasonal activities and weekly story lines and new content became all just too much. There was a AscendantNomad video that I think summarized it well recently - there is too many weapons, all of which are a slurry of minor differences in both visuals and perk sets. The churn of Too Much But Not Satisfying just didn't give me any reason to think any specific change or new thing. Why would I chase new items when I have hundreds of weapons in my vault that I never touch? No new Dungeon or Raid or Seasonal weapon worked to incentivize compared to the rest of the never ending mix of items.

    And the Crucible lost it's mojo. No updates, no compelling chase, and Trials that took to long to figure out what it wanted to be.

    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    I'll get Final Shape. I'll play the story. Maybe even get a quick Raid or two in. But I think short of D3, Destiny has lost it's shine. But it was a good run. Maybe more than could have been expected. But something fundamentally new is needed.

  • Options
    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    If Destiny (hopefully) bounces back after this... I wonder how much longer they can keep making Destiny if players won't let them take anything out?

    I'm not a game dev and haven't played many other mmos but it feels to me like they have 2 or so years before they have to blow it up. Like... what's subclass seven gonna look like? How many face-melting meta-defining guns + perks can this game hold and can players keep track of?

    I put about 60 hours into of Warframe which seems like the closest thing, but Warfame is more like a mmo masquerading as a third-person action game where Destiny is a fps first and foremost. And Warframe has (wisely?) siloed off its pvp from the rest of the game. I don't know how much more power creep an action game can sustain. But it's a forever-game that (historically) prints money so stopping Destiny 2 to make Destiny 3 (assuming you could get people to switch over to 3) would be like setting fire to the money hose (on purpose instead of by accident like what's happening now.)

  • Options
    DacDac Registered User regular
    https://youtu.be/KCIhMn6x-Vo?si=sbjw4fJCS-AzIR4y

    More details from a Paul Tassi interview.

    In which the details suggest about what you could suppose from the outset: that the management class has been fucking the pig, and now everyone else has to pay for it.

    Also lol spending the 1.2billion to buy back employee shares for Sony. So, what, each employee's shares were worth like 1 million? Because Bungie had like 1200 employees, according to wikipedia, and maybe even less at the time. Christ.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • Options
    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
    Switch: 0293 6817 9891
  • Options
    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    I’m in the minority that felt d2 was too similar to d1. So I was over the formula a looong time ago,

    But for me the most fun parts of any new massive online game is discovering everything the first month or two. Once we know how the sausage is made inherently and everything is crunched into optimal numbers and routines it loses most its magic.

    So Im very ready for something fresh. Even a new looter shooter from them

    616610-1.png
  • Options
    RollsavagerRollsavager Registered User regular
    Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months.
    Cosmetics are only the tip of the iceberg, IMO. Think about how much Bungie invests in designing seasonal equipment and activities, recording dialogue, composing cutscenes, etc. All of which evaporate after (on average) 6 months. New and returning players can't catch up on the story because it no longer exists, and people who would happily pay to access e.g. the Seraph weapons can't do so. They're lighting money on fire. It's utterly insane.

    I would love to see a more disciplined version of Bungie that ships less, better, more durable content.

  • Options
    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months.
    Cosmetics are only the tip of the iceberg, IMO. Think about how much Bungie invests in designing seasonal equipment and activities, recording dialogue, composing cutscenes, etc. All of which evaporate after (on average) 6 months. New and returning players can't catch up on the story because it no longer exists, and people who would happily pay to access e.g. the Seraph weapons can't do so. They're lighting money on fire. It's utterly insane.

    I would love to see a more disciplined version of Bungie that ships less, better, more durable content.

    Yeah I'm not entirely adverse to the rotating model, and I think concerns on fragmenting the playerbase etc are pretty fair, but there's absolutely a version of the game that did a six month cadence with content that was designed to be kept.

    Some of it is the loot treadmill issues, but that's why I bring up stuff like clan housing, and other such long tail activities. Like fuck, you can't tell me there's not a segment of the playerbase who wouldn't go gaga for trophies that you could display, showing off how many times you went flawless or similar

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
    Switch: 0293 6817 9891
  • Options
    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Way in the before times the exclusivity stuff always agitated me, but I sort of managed... Also the inventory management cycles... shaders, old gear for looks... they started adding kiosks for that stuff, but I still had a lot of storage issues (did they ever start to sell inventory slots?) There were other weird beats for me too, like the World First stuff where one of the raids had a cut-scene where it was like "oh some other people won this content, but you can just do it again" which was kind of... eh?

    Those weekly rotations on the dreaming city really did me in for playing. Throw in all the changes to Gambit, plus the "gambit gearsets"... and the game kind of just drifted away from me.

    I thought they said they were going to tone down all the FOMO though or at least I remember them saying that many years ago... guess not.


    edit: forgot to add, if I don't buy the expansion pack, how much of this is available to play? I know they said they went F2P but I've also seen a lot of comments that you "can't really do anything" as a free player.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • Options
    RollsavagerRollsavager Registered User regular
    Like fuck, you can't tell me there's not a segment of the playerbase who wouldn't go gaga for trophies that you could display, showing off how many times you went flawless or similar
    100%, Archie was a really cool reward for completing secrets in Season of the Seraph. I don't care for raid titles, ships, or sparrows, but I would absolutely chase triumphs to bling out the HELM. Season of the Deep's aquarium is the closest they've come to doing this well, but of course that will evaporate the moment Final Shape lands.

  • Options
    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    This is true. YoshiP the Director/Producer for FFXIV even told people that if they feel a bit burnt out on XIV they should go and play other games and that they'll be waiting.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • Options
    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure some years ago Luke Smith said the same thing about it being ok for players to take a break from Destiny; now the money is so fucked up that they can sell an enormous numbers of the latest expansion + season pass and the whole company almost goes tits up less than a year later.

  • Options
    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    This is true. YoshiP the Director/Producer for FFXIV even told people that if they feel a bit burnt out on XIV they should go and play other games and that they'll be waiting.

    One contrast is, mind, that where FFXIV had people say "this is the only game I play, it is the only game I want to play; support this", they got told "JFC no, go outside or something. That's not good for you." Destiny appears to have gone "well, if our players want it..." It's definitely not like the players of FFXIV didn't want the eternal forever game.

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    Destiny 2 was designed like this at launch. The players fucking hated it.

    They had unlocked all their powers, geared up, gotten their cool guns. And now they had nothing to do with it all.

    The current game design is in many ways a direct response to feedback about people wanting things to do.

  • Options
    hushhush Registered User regular
    i feel like if their response to people wanting more d2 content to chase was to eventually introduce sunsetting, they should probably have another go at the ol' design document.

    This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.

    So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
  • Options
    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    sunsetting was "this game is too big and console makers are coming for us"

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Options
    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    I don't know how much longer they can add guns and perks to the game. There's only so many ways to kill guy fast. edit: I read "sunsetting" and thought of gun sunsetting not "cut campaigns and locations out of the game" sunsetting

    august on
  • Options
    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    Destiny 2 was designed like this at launch. The players fucking hated it.

    They had unlocked all their powers, geared up, gotten their cool guns. And now they had nothing to do with it all.

    The current game design is in many ways a direct response to feedback about people wanting things to do.

    D2 vanilla launched with no Trials (so no endgame PVP), no random roll guns (so nothing to chase, per se), no lore to collect, etc. It was just a shallow game, FOMO had nothing to do with it. Big difference between that and "continually pay us $10 and then grind a pass for 15 weeks (mainly the exact same event that will get old on your 5th try) otherwise that money is trash".

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    shryke wrote: »
    D2 just went on too long, too frequently. I think a larger annual expansion like in the older days would maybe have ultimately worked better for me - a chase that isn't perpetual, meaningful new content, and overall less of it.

    There's lessons I think you could learn from Ff14 with its patch cadence, notably the major/catch-up/major/catch-up approach, and the fact that you had two years between expansions. Still a 3 month cycle, but major gear thresholds and raids were only happening every 6 months.

    My impression is they're a lot happier to have people walk and then come back, while Destiny very much gives the impression of The Only Game You Play Is Destiny.

    Honestly, I think one area Destiny fucked up on is social spaces. There's just not the same level of "oh shit, that person has X mount or Y armour". It's not something you can one to one - destiny's graphical fidelity means it's bloody demanding to make models for, but it is a thing. The tower is a pretty awful social space. There's no clan halls or similar space dressup areas, despite the fact that players go nuts for personal spaces they can personalize

    The fact that weapons were coming out with recycled models etc really didn't help either. Or the very nature of the FOMO with seasons - you're literally cutting off your own tail and wasting Dev resources by only having seasonal cosmetics earnable for three months. Especially in a game that's finally fucking implemented transmog.

    Destiny 2 was designed like this at launch. The players fucking hated it.

    They had unlocked all their powers, geared up, gotten their cool guns. And now they had nothing to do with it all.

    The current game design is in many ways a direct response to feedback about people wanting things to do.

    D2 vanilla launched with no Trials (so no endgame PVP), no random roll guns (so nothing to chase, per se), no lore to collect, etc. It was just a shallow game, FOMO had nothing to do with it. Big difference between that and "continually pay us $10 and then grind a pass for 15 weeks (mainly the exact same event that will get old on your 5th try) otherwise that money is trash".

    I'm not talking about FOMO. I'm talking about having something to do with the things you've collected in your looter shooter. The game is designed to always have something for you to do because the players wanted something to do in the game all the time. People wanted to play the game more because they liked how it played and were asking Bungie to give them an incentive to do so.

    shryke on
  • Options
    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Fixed roll guns were one of the selling points, too. "No more failing to get the gun you want!" like in D1, a thing everyone complained about wasting their time.

  • Options
    Zombie GandhiZombie Gandhi Registered User regular
    I was always a bit more pro on Gun Sunsetting than most. I absolutely get the arguments against, and it probably would have been a net negative for most player types.... but it would have given me a reason to chase new guns instead of sit on my large pile of unused weapons.

    But again, I am also the player type that wanted D3 and a full reset years ago.

Sign In or Register to comment.