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[Destiny 2] Wizards of the Ghost

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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    It doesn’t need to be ultra grimdark, but it wouldn’t make sense for the super powerful evil Witness to finally show up with its army and there’s no consequences, no loss

    I would feel robbed if it was a clean happy win. All the buildup for a jobber?

    Yes, dark doesn’t always equal good. But it does sometimes, like when it’s thematically appropriate to the story

    People often say Empire Strikes Back is their favorite Star Wars, and it’s not because everything worked out for everyone. Sure, playing it is different from watching it, but it’s still doable in an epic way that is compelling and makes you want to continue to the next expansion where you get your revenge and victory

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    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    My spinfoil theories on the story include
    Nazareth was a herald of the witness. They betrayed the darkness and stopped the collapse. That was their sin. Also the guardian is Nazareth. Crow, savathun, all building towards a reveal that we were a herald of darkness before we got the light. Details as to how we were awoken or human or exo… I dunno. I’m sure they can figure it out

    Second theory
    we end up using savathuns plan of locking the traveler in a throne world to save it from the darkness. So we allow her to be rezzed to help us. But we use maras or even cooler we learn how to make our own

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    KandenKanden Registered User regular
    Some Lightfall key art leaked, be careful if you wanna go into the showcase blind tomorrow. I cannot wait to see it in motion

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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    It doesn’t need to be ultra grimdark, but it wouldn’t make sense for the super powerful evil Witness to finally show up with its army and there’s no consequences, no loss

    I would feel robbed if it was a clean happy win. All the buildup for a jobber?

    Yes, dark doesn’t always equal good. But it does sometimes, like when it’s thematically appropriate to the story

    People often say Empire Strikes Back is their favorite Star Wars, and it’s not because everything worked out for everyone. Sure, playing it is different from watching it, but it’s still doable in an epic way that is compelling and makes you want to continue to the next expansion where you get your revenge and victory

    Counterpoint: "Boy this expansion was lame, probably not gonna buy the next one in a year". You want my 50 bucks or w/e, then you gotta convince me it'll be fun, and ESB wasn't "fun". "Humanity is destroyed and the only thing that's left is some spaceships and we have to leave the solar system" (yes I have actually seen this as a serious suggestion) is not "fun" as an expansion concept. 3, 4 seasons of "welp just getting worse!"? No thanks.

    Edit: And thematically, we're continually succeeding against seemingly insurmountable odds, pulling hope from the jaws of defeat where all seems lost. We're the bright spot against everything that's trying to beat us, we're "hope"; I just don't see the theme of Destiny as that kind of grim or negative. It would be perfectly thematic IMO for everything to look all but lost, then we pull it out at the end and at the least leave things semi-status-quo, up for "final victory" in the last expansion.

    dporowski on
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I mean it seems to me you're hyper fixated on a couple people on reddit's idea of what a grimdark expansion would entail. Usually when a big expansion comes along we get more powerful with access to new powers and even more absurb weapons. So the handwringing over Bungie going too far seems misplaced.

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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    dporowski wrote: »
    It doesn’t need to be ultra grimdark, but it wouldn’t make sense for the super powerful evil Witness to finally show up with its army and there’s no consequences, no loss

    I would feel robbed if it was a clean happy win. All the buildup for a jobber?

    Yes, dark doesn’t always equal good. But it does sometimes, like when it’s thematically appropriate to the story

    People often say Empire Strikes Back is their favorite Star Wars, and it’s not because everything worked out for everyone. Sure, playing it is different from watching it, but it’s still doable in an epic way that is compelling and makes you want to continue to the next expansion where you get your revenge and victory

    Counterpoint: "Boy this expansion was lame, probably not gonna buy the next one in a year". You want my 50 bucks or w/e, then you gotta convince me it'll be fun, and ESB wasn't "fun". "Humanity is destroyed and the only thing that's left is some spaceships and we have to leave the solar system" (yes I have actually seen this as a serious suggestion) is not "fun" as an expansion concept. 3, 4 seasons of "welp just getting worse!"? No thanks.

    ESB was extremely fun, what movie did you watch? Snowspeeders vs AT-ATs, caves that turn out to be giant worm monsters, a rogue's gallery of bounty hunters for everyone to nerd out about, C3P0 becoming a crash test dummy, escaping into an asteroid belt, Yoda (!!), Luke vs Vader Lightsaber battle, and more. It turns out, you can have stakes and consequences AND still have an engaging, imaginative adventure story. And again... humanity is destroyed is literally the opening crawl of Destiny! What game have you been playing all this time?

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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    dporowski wrote: »
    It doesn’t need to be ultra grimdark, but it wouldn’t make sense for the super powerful evil Witness to finally show up with its army and there’s no consequences, no loss

    I would feel robbed if it was a clean happy win. All the buildup for a jobber?

    Yes, dark doesn’t always equal good. But it does sometimes, like when it’s thematically appropriate to the story

    People often say Empire Strikes Back is their favorite Star Wars, and it’s not because everything worked out for everyone. Sure, playing it is different from watching it, but it’s still doable in an epic way that is compelling and makes you want to continue to the next expansion where you get your revenge and victory

    Counterpoint: "Boy this expansion was lame, probably not gonna buy the next one in a year". You want my 50 bucks or w/e, then you gotta convince me it'll be fun, and ESB wasn't "fun". "Humanity is destroyed and the only thing that's left is some spaceships and we have to leave the solar system" (yes I have actually seen this as a serious suggestion) is not "fun" as an expansion concept. 3, 4 seasons of "welp just getting worse!"? No thanks.

    ESB was extremely fun, what movie did you watch? Snowspeeders vs AT-ATs, caves that turn out to be giant worm monsters, a rogue's gallery of bounty hunters for everyone to nerd out about, C3P0 becoming a crash test dummy, escaping into an asteroid belt, Yoda (!!), Luke vs Vader Lightsaber battle, and more. It turns out, you can have stakes and consequences AND still have an engaging, imaginative adventure story. And again... humanity is destroyed is literally the opening crawl of Destiny! What game have you been playing all this time?

    I didn't say I didn't like it. :p

    Edit: Look, whatever, y'all obviously like/enjoy media with downer endings. I don't. It's cool. I just don't want all my entertainment media to turn into stuff with downer endings, 'cause I don't like them. Some people are okay with movies where the dog dies, other people check doesthedogdie.com religiously. (That's an actual site. It's neat!) I just get itched by the fans/players/etc of every piece of media I consume wanting it to have more dark shit in it, to be less funny, and so on.

    And a Destiny expansion is essentially 4 (it's 3 seasons + campaign, right?) stories! So that's 4 bad endings. I mean that may be your thing, but it's not mine.

    dporowski on
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    DacDac Registered User regular
    It's so weird that this conversation even needs to happen.

    A 'dark chapter' is neither inherently good or bad. It entirely revolves around the writing surrounding it, and how it's incorporated into the story.

    Dark chapters are popular in a lot of narratives because that usually is the second act disaster (the aforementioned ESB is a classic example of this). They are not necessary, but they are very common in dramatic stories as a way to heighten the sense of satisfaction when the protagonist overcomes their lowest point.

    If it's written badly it's, of course, bad - but that's pretty much the case for everything. Duh.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    I mean... I don't like them, and you say they're not necessary right there. :p Like we agree. I just don't like the thing in question.

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    I think we more than understand that at this point.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    I think at the point where the argument is "Destiny having things go badly for the good guys would suck, like Empire Strikes Back" is the point where this conversation has jumped the shoulder and plowed straight into crazytown at full speed.

    shryke on
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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    I think we more than understand that at this point.

    Y'know dude, that's not very nice. I already got the feeling that I am the only one who doesn't like the downer stuff, so it's cool, I'm out, but you don't have to go and start snipping at me.

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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    My wife enjoys watching romantic comedies up through the point where they first fall in love but before whatever event will break them apart and cause them to have to get back together with some epic display of love

    She just wants a story of two people falling in love and then no drama.

    We’ve literally turned off movies in the first half because “things are good right now they seem happy “

    So some people don’t need the stakes to be raised

    Maybe the traveler and witness will have a meet cute at a Raman shop

    Disrupter on
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    DacDac Registered User regular
    Empress Caiatl's Guardian Maido, starring Zavala.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Destiny currently has a team of people who are unflaggingly great at writing characters and dialogue.

    This helps paper over the fact that Destiny is a game about blowing the shit out of palette swapped versions of the same enemies for years at a time whilst utilizing increasingly novel and interesting space magic.

    All of which was typified by this very season.

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    yeah, it owns

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    Destiny currently has a team of people who are unflaggingly great at writing characters and dialogue.

    This helps paper over the fact that Destiny is a game about blowing the shit out of palette swapped versions of the same enemies for years at a time whilst utilizing increasingly novel and interesting space magic.

    All of which was typified by this very season.

    I think this season has really typified the strengths and weaknesses of Destiny's writing lately. Lots of good character work but dull and not terribly well executed overall story structure and plotting.

    The stuff we learn about 3 major characters this season, the stuff from Eris Morn, all of it was great. But the strict pattern of how it's executed that people spotted by week 3 made it really dull to sit through. And the Calus plot just kinda goes through the motions without interesting twists or much of anything notable in it's execution. Nothing that happens really ties into that part of the story. Calus is gonna do the thing and we punch mans till he can't and that's all there is to it.

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    (big image)
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    :)

    first time I ever did all challenges (well, 72 of them), I was at like 60 or so in the last two or three weeks so I decided to push for it for the first time

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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    I think it's all a symptom of the game being a live service and everything coming in hot.

    The development team probably told the writing team "okay, we are busy as fuck with Lightfall, so let's reuse the Leviathan and goop it up real good. Also you can have that big purple Calus head from the raid. Also don't push the main story forward in any meaningful way. Okay good luck!" and the writing team had to be like "Uhhhhhh... fuck... ok..."

    I say "not in any meaningful way" because we already knew that Calus was a totally depraved megalomaniac who was 100% dedicated to murdering the universe. He could have just shown up in pyramid, we didn't need a whole season of yelling at him while he flushes himself into a pyramid and takes a nap for a year.

    Anyway, no big deal because I'm sure Calus will get his in a dramatic way at some point.

    august on
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    https://youtu.be/tgDDNHHFZPs
    Before the stream flawless montage

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    DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    So many thoughts. Mainly good. But one thing really bothers me…
    well a few related things. The idea there’s some golden age esque city of humans out there just thriving that nobody knew about feels dumb. It also devalues the last city. And like all their world building. It feels very out of place

    As a consequence the lightfall dlc feels less like this big climax we were expecting and more like a beyond light side story…

    That’s very disappointing

    Disrupter on
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    OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So many thoughts. Mainly good. But one thing really bothers me…
    well a few related things. The idea there’s some golden age esque city of humans out there just thriving that nobody knew about feels dumb. It also devalues the last city. And like all their world building. It feels very out of place

    As a consequence the lightfall dlc feels less like this big climax we were expecting and more like a beyond light side story…

    That’s very disappointing
    Well, it's not like the idea of the City not being the only safe spot is a new idea. A retired Iron Lord lives in a secret community herself with other Guardians who've pretty much noped out of the conflict.

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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    I suppose so. But I think it all feels…
    like a distraction? Like the original plan was lightfall was the end.

    But clearly back then the end wasn’t fighting calus over a city we didn’t know existed an hour ago

    So this feels like a shadowkeep or beyond light dlc. A narrative filler. Just punting the epic end another year.

    Like I thought final shape was added as an epilogue. But instead it feels like the concept for lightfall was moved to final shape and this was thrown in instead

    I expected lightfall to be us vs a new darkness enemy over the last city and traveler

    So in that regard I’m pretty let down

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    So many thoughts. Mainly good. But one thing really bothers me…
    well a few related things. The idea there’s some golden age esque city of humans out there just thriving that nobody knew about feels dumb. It also devalues the last city. And like all their world building. It feels very out of place

    As a consequence the lightfall dlc feels less like this big climax we were expecting and more like a beyond light side story…

    That’s very disappointing
    Hey, we're going to need somewhere as our hub when the Last City is destroyed.
    Joking. Probably. But you have to ask why the Witness and Calus even followed you to Neptune if the Traveler is still around to smash.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Pleasantly surprised they didn't do the typical Bungie thing of
    Having Calus show up this season and then put that plotline on hold for a year+.

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    Also someone call Kojima because Strands.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    You guys are overlooking the really important thing.
    In the trailer the giant Calus was very clearly topless and perhaps fully nude and are any of us ready for that?!!

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    DiarmuidDiarmuid Amazing Meatball Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    You guys are overlooking the really important thing.
    In the trailer the giant Calus was very clearly topless and perhaps fully nude and are any of us ready for that?!!
    Oh, I've been ready.

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    Zombie GandhiZombie Gandhi Registered User regular
    Having caught up with the main showcase.

    This is the first time in a while that my hype has actually been tempered/diminished. I mostly share Disrupter's concerns.
    As much as the mechanics may seem interesting of Strand, I worry about the PVP implications of Yet More Insane Movement.

    And the "giant golden age city on Neptune featuring cool Guardians-But-Not" got stuck in my craw and I think annoyed me. I feel like it doesn't feel like Destiny to me. You mean to tell me that Dead Orbit, the Hidden/Ikora, Rasputin/Ana, Mara, Drifter, Elsie/Clovis, Mithrax, Caital, Calus, Savathun - none of these folks ever heard thing one about a parallel civilization for the past hand-wavey Destiny time?

    I'm hopeful that the execution can be good, but it felt dissonant, and yeah, a bit of a cop out unless they sell it well.

    Like yeah, mechanically having city-scapes and battles and spiderman action would be cool, but really not what I had anticipated and felt out of leeeeeeft field.

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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    it feels like padding because it is padding. It's clear that the actual independence day confrontation won't start until Final Shape

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Having caught up with the main showcase.

    This is the first time in a while that my hype has actually been tempered/diminished. I mostly share Disrupter's concerns.
    As much as the mechanics may seem interesting of Strand, I worry about the PVP implications of Yet More Insane Movement.

    And the "giant golden age city on Neptune featuring cool Guardians-But-Not" got stuck in my craw and I think annoyed me. I feel like it doesn't feel like Destiny to me. You mean to tell me that Dead Orbit, the Hidden/Ikora, Rasputin/Ana, Mara, Drifter, Elsie/Clovis, Mithrax, Caital, Calus, Savathun - none of these folks ever heard thing one about a parallel civilization for the past hand-wavey Destiny time?

    I'm hopeful that the execution can be good, but it felt dissonant, and yeah, a bit of a cop out unless they sell it well.

    Like yeah, mechanically having city-scapes and battles and spiderman action would be cool, but really not what I had anticipated and felt out of leeeeeeft field.
    On the one hand, yes, I almost actually laughed out loud when the introduced the city on Neptune because it's so silly. On the other hand it passes the "does the new place look cool and do the new powers look fun" test with spectacular flying colors so I'm ok with it.

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    oh shit you can craft the Dares weapons now
    and it looks like some of the King's Fall weapons will be craftable too

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    OH SHIT BXR HAS INCANDESCENT NOW

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    Bruh this new craftable shotgun, No Reprieve, is a slug.

    Can I put Enhanced One-Two Punch on a slug shotgun. That seems too good to be true.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Having caught up with the main showcase.

    This is the first time in a while that my hype has actually been tempered/diminished. I mostly share Disrupter's concerns.
    As much as the mechanics may seem interesting of Strand, I worry about the PVP implications of Yet More Insane Movement.

    And the "giant golden age city on Neptune featuring cool Guardians-But-Not" got stuck in my craw and I think annoyed me. I feel like it doesn't feel like Destiny to me. You mean to tell me that Dead Orbit, the Hidden/Ikora, Rasputin/Ana, Mara, Drifter, Elsie/Clovis, Mithrax, Caital, Calus, Savathun - none of these folks ever heard thing one about a parallel civilization for the past hand-wavey Destiny time?

    I'm hopeful that the execution can be good, but it felt dissonant, and yeah, a bit of a cop out unless they sell it well.

    Like yeah, mechanically having city-scapes and battles and spiderman action would be cool, but really not what I had anticipated and felt out of leeeeeeft field.
    On the one hand, yes, I almost actually laughed out loud when the introduced the city on Neptune because it's so silly. On the other hand it passes the "does the new place look cool and do the new powers look fun" test with spectacular flying colors so I'm ok with it.
    I am left wondering how the 'Lightfall' aspect is going to come into things. The action seems pretty far away from the Traveler and the City. I almost would've expected this sort of setting after Final Shape, with us moving into a new saga and new settings.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Bungie getting mad stingy with exotic weapons, only one exotic with the season again, no quest exotic 2 seasons in a row

    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    So...this showcase.

    When will studios figure out programmers are not presenters? These guys are cringy.

    And how the hell did no one know another city existed?

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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Yeah I legit think they should’ve renamed this dlc to something else and fully punted lightfall. It feels disingenuous how they did this imo.

    But on the flip side arc 3.0 seems real fun. But they need a better way to list all the buffs on my hunter please

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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Bungie getting mad stingy with exotic weapons, only one exotic with the season again, no quest exotic 2 seasons in a row

    You don’t think we’re getting a raid exotic?

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