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Abortion and the Demise of Roe V Wade
ElJeffe
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
OP stolen from our illustrious leader:
This thread is for discussion of the leaked decision from the Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v Wade. Discussion for and around that topic are to be kept confined to this thread in D&D.
Here's a brief overview of what's happening:
Politico is a site that covers US Politics:Politico wrote:The Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito and obtained by POLITICO.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Alito writes.
Abby D Phillip is a political correspondent at CNN:Abby D Phillip wrote:BREAKING: Chief Justice Roberts confirms the authenticity of the ruling obtained by POLITICO: "This was a singular and egregious breach of that trust that is an affront to the Court and the community of public servants who work here." He is asking for an investigation.
Here are some ground rules for the thread. Please read these, as we will be enforcing them:
- The 2016 election is off-topic. Nobody has anything new to say, nobody is going to convince anyone else to change their mind, and we don't need it used as a cudgel to yell at each other over.
- These forums are publicly indexed, meaning that search engines will return results from the forums. Don't openly say how you're going to or want to do illegal shit in posts on this forum. It'll get us in trouble, and it'll get you in trouble.
- Keep discussion in this thread to actions that are directly related to this upcoming decision. That can be a broader topic than it seems, and it's a bit of a moving target, so bear with us as we all narrow it down. Please work with us on this.
- These forums are not a place for you to yell at each other. I understand tensions are very high right now, but this cannot be a place for you to vent that anger, no matter how righteous it is. Channel that energy somewhere else, please.
- This is still D&D, which is an on-topic forum. I understand the need to shitpost, but this isn't the place for it.
If you'll allow me to get on a soapbox, here's one thing I'd like to ask of everyone. I don't want anyone here sitting smugly thinking that "they finally told off that other person!" I'm talking about you, as well. This is a pretty momentous decision, and a lot of us are very angry about it, and it's very easy to slide into hopelessness. Nothing I can say here is going to assuage any of that. All I can ask is that you do your best to not take it out on each other. I feel pretty confident that this forum is mostly on the same side on this issue, and I'd like everyone to remember that going forward. Here's one thing that I think is very worth noting: nobody here is responsible for this. I don't care who they voted for, I don't care when they voted for them, I don't care who they campaigned for. The people on this forum are not meant to be stand-ins for the people who make these decisions, and they're not to be your outlet for that anger. When I say take that anger and point it elsewhere, I mean it, even if "elsewhere," means you go on Twitter, or into my DMs and call me an asshole. I mean, please don't DM me to call me an asshole, that's rude, but whatever.
Anyways: I know I'm shouting into the void here, but please, please try and give each other some benefit of the doubt.
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This makes me more sure than ever that the leak came from one of the conservative occupants.
They have been extremely*crickets chirping* for the last few months about that investigation. A bit suspicious.
From NPR, another example of the bans doing exactly what everyone said they would
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/07/26/1111280165/because-of-texas-abortion-law-her-wanted-pregnancy-became-a-medical-nightmare
This was pre Dobbs even, but without a stay on Texas's bullshit might as well have been post. Her water broke months before viability. The fetus would almost certainly never develop important details.
Like lungs.
Eventually infection set in as the fetus began to die but because pro life assholes always write their laws extremely vaguely, and it hadn't been tested to the limit. So the hospital kept telling her she wasn't "sick enough" yet
Law professor Paul Campos believes that Alito leaked it himself to counter the pressure Roberts was trying to put on Kavanaugh via leaking to the WSJ a few days before Politico obtained the draft.
(Not quoting from it because it is a short read that requires the full context. Campos does note that there was no performative outrage over the WSJ article.)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Also typical Roberts boosting mainstream press. He voted to overturn Roe!
Yeah, Roberts is just as crazy. He just likes to maintain the good image of the Court while he destroys the US and democracy. And it actually works too given the press coverage of him and the public views on the Court.
And hilariously most/all of the conservative justices fucking hate him for these tactics. They can only tolerate loud and in-your-face extremism.
Well yeah. The GOP as a whole realized that people that want to impress the NYT above all else are god damn useless to get something done. And that you can get away with a lot with "So, what are you going to do about it?".
Ah, death panels.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It’s always projection.
Death panels try to minimize money spent. This panel intends to spend as much money as possible to kill as many as possible. A genocide panel perhaps.
From Sheryl Gay Stolberg, a NYT reporter.
I don't know about those Indiana state courts, but this seems like it is not the kind of thing I would expect to see an AG come to judge with. This is blatant intimidation and messy work at that. Just another in a long line of fascist legal calvinball situation.
I would say it's more suborning perjury. You know, corruptly asking for anyone to rid him of this meddlesome priest by lying about them.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1752-subornation-perjury
Found the consumer complain form for Indiana. Section 19 is on point in that it has the standard "under penalty of perjury I assert this the above statements are true" language. https://indianaattorneygeneral.secure.force.com/ConsumerComplaintForm
So yes, depending on the case law on this kind of thing, this is the AG asking someone to knowingly perjure themselves for the sake of a political witchhunt.
"This makes us look bad so we're going to punish people for bringing it up" roughly
With a side order of trying to discredit everyone involved in bringing it up
And a false sense of persecution due to being defied by a woman despite the good Christian court saying they aren’t allowed to do that.
Honestly I don’t really try to separate the pettiness from the ideological goals anymore, it’s all mixed into the same shit slurry.
US supreme court justice mocks Prince Harry and Boris Johnson’s criticism of Roe v Wade ruling
Steam | XBL
The goal is just to muddy the waters as much as possible. Give people a chance to say "they heard that..." And rumors to spread and encourage votes for Republican candidates. Damage is done because a lie spreads halfway around the world while the truth is just getting it's shoes on. Etc. Etc.
Late night edit! And as we see on the the NYT it's working! https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/07/28/opinion/focus-group-political-division.html
"Cathy 38, white, Pennsylvania, campus minister, Trump Voter:
And I think there was [a leftist] assassination attempt on one of [the Supreme Court Justice's] lives..."
Just make shit up, people will spread it around and it will eventually become the truth! And the NYT posting this woman's hearsay just added another bit of noise to confuse readers further.
Aside from Kansas being the first to vote on if it shall retain the current constitutional language which our state supreme court says gives women the right to abortion, you have the DOJ going after Idaho's trigger law.
From The Washington Post
The law federal law at issue is EMTALA. A GOP laws which states that if you get Medicare dollars, you have to provide any and all emergency treatment. The DOJ is arguing that this includes abortions.
Why Idaho and why now? Because the trigger law goes after providers and threatens them with jail time.
The problem here is the reliance on the idea of Federal supremacy. The current makeup of the SCotUS is such that I don't feel like there's a solid majority to be consistent. I mean, Roe v Wade was a target for decades and those who brought it about isn't about to let it get reinstated, in part or in whole, by some namby-pamby technicality. The court clearly doesn't care about such concerns of legal consistency. They are high on their own supply of getting to rule without being ruled over. Furthermore, I don't feel like this is a full-throated defense of women or their choice, let alone of the medical professionals who are there to execute said procedure. This feels squarely as a half-hearted attempt to return to the status quo, not a real fix to the situation.
Back to the first, I'll be waiting for the returns to start rolling in later in the evening. There are reports of long lines to vote over lunch, so people getting out and voting is good. There are predictions that this may eclipse the 2020 vote thanks to the early returns from mail ballots and early voting were exceeding those record breaking returns. All indications is that this will be a close race. Very close. While early polling has indicated only a slight win for the pro-birth side, with the changes to voting law I don't expect us to know for certain until very late tonight or tomorrow.
Not just a win for the state, but also because it’s surrounded by forced birth states
(Stolen from Twitter, a reply to Holly Anderson again reminding us that “lol let the red states all die” is a dumb take)
this is a state that trump won by 200k votes and 15 points, if you're a politician campaigning on getting rid of reproductive rights, I hope this scares the shit out of you
Sorry I’m just giddy that it turns out voter registration in Kansas surged starting the day of the Dobbs decision, 70% of registrations were women, party registration was D +8 in a R+19 state, and turnout for an August primary was the highest in Kansas in 14 years
With a record setting turnout for an August primary election.
The Democrats would be fools not to see this as the platform to run on this fall.
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Which part of that are you objecting to as untrue? Nicholas Roske did make an assassination attempt on Kavanaugh. When Cathy characterized him as belonging to "the left" it was a little presumptuous but, given what we know of his motivations, he didn't do it based on republican or libertarian values.