What would interest me more, are there reviews for new mainboards for Ryzen 7000?
0
Idx86Long days and pleasant nights.Registered Userregular
edited September 2022
Is it really best practice to add the motherboard components (RAM, SSD, CPU, GPU) outside of the case and try a test boot before putting it in its case? I have next Monday off and plan on doing my build then, just trying to watch as many videos and get as many tips as I can before embarking. Thought that one was a bit odd.
Also, are there any RGB gurus in the thread using Corsair stuff specifically? if I have a RGB AIO cooler, RGB case fans and 6 additional case fans can I simply connect the two RGB controllers together in order to manage everything centrally or is there another device I need to route them to in order for everything to run as one?
Also, that Linus Tech Tips video in the OP is really, really helpful.
Idx86 on
2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
0
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
It’s a good practice, but I never do it for home builds. It was SOP at work for obvious productivity reasons, but the odds of a bad component are low enough and my time isn’t so invaluable that it would ruin my week to lose half an hour taking parts out if I don’t get a successful boot. I do try to give a quick test boot before I manage any cables or anything, of course.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
I will stick the CPU, memory, and M.2 SSD's on before putting the motherboard in the case, just because there's generally more room to work with. CPU cooler and GPU go in after.
Like has been said, the odds are low enough that something will be broken that it's not really worth it.
And we have 13th gen. the 13900K is undercutting the 5950X by $110
Core i5-13600K ($319): 14 cores (6 performance cores, 8 efficiency cores)/20 threads at up to 5.1GHz; P-Core: 3.5GHz (base) to 5.1GHz (turbo); E-core: 2.6GHz (base) to 3.9GHz (turbo)
Core i7-13700K ($409): 16 cores (8 performance cores, 8 efficiency cores)/24 threads at up to 5.4GHz; P-Core: 3.4GHz (base) to 5.3GHz (turbo); E-core: 2.5GHz (base) to 4.2GHz (turbo)
Core i9-13900K ($589): 24 cores (8 performance cores, 16 efficiency cores)/32 threads at up to 5.8GHz; P-Core: 3.0GHz (base) to 5.4GHz (turbo); E-Core: 2.2GHz (base) to 4.3GHz (turbo)
Intel also has three “KF” variants that eliminate the integrated GPU to save cost: the $564 Core i9-13900KF, the $384 Core i7-13700KF, and the $294 Core i5-13600KF.
Also when did PC World become unreadable? Fuck, I made it four paragraphs in when the third full page pop up ad drove me off
you can thank the collapsing display ad market fueled by many factors for that. They do have some of the best work (in my opinion), but it can be hard sometimes. And I really try not to turn on ad blockers because ad blocking is one of the reasons the ad market collapsed.
if there was a zero % chance for ads to not hit me with malware, viruses, or bitcoin farmers, i'd consider unblocking ads. but there isn't, so they're blocked.
e: This is especially noteworthy because it has AV1 encode/decode, so this has value for folks outside of gaming.
If the A770 comes in at 3060 levels thats a hell of a play for the mid/low range Nvidia has abandoned.
I'm glad to see it.
Honestly wonder if there was an emergency meeting after nvidia's "prices don't go down" conference where someone went "if we cut the planned price by $50 we can steal a TON of marketshare"
As for the CPUs, 13th gen is still compatible with DDR4. Won’t help with performance, necessarily, but it might help adoption, since the board and RAM can be upgraded later.
if there was a zero % chance for ads to not hit me with malware, viruses, or bitcoin farmers, i'd consider unblocking ads. but there isn't, so they're blocked.
Yeah we don't need to litigate the good and bad of ad blocking, that stuff is all well documented and everyone makes their own decisions. A question was asked about the number of ads on PC World, and that is one reason, but not the only reason. We can get back to talking about how interesting Intel 13th gen looks.
e: This is especially noteworthy because it has AV1 encode/decode, so this has value for folks outside of gaming.
If the A770 comes in at 3060 levels thats a hell of a play for the mid/low range Nvidia has abandoned.
I'm glad to see it.
Honestly wonder if there was an emergency meeting after nvidia's "prices don't go down" conference where someone went "if we cut the planned price by $50 we can steal a TON of marketshare"
There is also the driver issue with the Intel GPU's, in that the drivers appear to be... extremely bad... on games that are DX11 and older. I'm sure that all plays a part in the pricing.
There is also the driver issue with the Intel GPU's, in that the drivers appear to be... extremely bad... on games that are DX11 and older. I'm sure that all plays a part in the pricing.
That has actually been their overt rationale for the price: they're pricing on performance of the "worst performing games", even if DX12 games it might be top tier.
As for the CPUs, 13th gen is still compatible with DDR4. Won’t help with performance, necessarily, but it might help adoption, since the board and RAM can be upgraded later.
Yeah, AMD is going to lose the mid-range to Raptor Lake because of that. AM5 motherboards and DDR5 RAM are expensive.
+4
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited September 2022
GamersNexus saying they’ve only heard of motherboards costing as little as *checks notes* over three hundred fucking dollars is wild as hell
jungleroomx on
+3
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
e: This is especially noteworthy because it has AV1 encode/decode, so this has value for folks outside of gaming.
If the A770 comes in at 3060 levels thats a hell of a play for the mid/low range Nvidia has abandoned.
I'm glad to see it.
Honestly wonder if there was an emergency meeting after nvidia's "prices don't go down" conference where someone went "if we cut the planned price by $50 we can steal a TON of marketshare"
There is also the driver issue with the Intel GPU's, in that the drivers appear to be... extremely bad... on games that are DX11 and older. I'm sure that all plays a part in the pricing.
All I’m gonna say is Intel has some of the most talented engineers on earth. They should be able to overcome this.
GamersNexus saying they’ve only heard of motherboards costing as little as *checks notes* over three hundred fucking dollars is wild as hell
Super-weird that the 7600X is one of the parts they released first. No one is going to put a $300 CPU into a $300 motherboard. They should have just launched the 7900 and 7950 to feast on the whales, and held the mid-range parts until DDR5 prices are down and B650 motherboards are available.
e: This is especially noteworthy because it has AV1 encode/decode, so this has value for folks outside of gaming.
If the A770 comes in at 3060 levels thats a hell of a play for the mid/low range Nvidia has abandoned.
I'm glad to see it.
Honestly wonder if there was an emergency meeting after nvidia's "prices don't go down" conference where someone went "if we cut the planned price by $50 we can steal a TON of marketshare"
There is also the driver issue with the Intel GPU's, in that the drivers appear to be... extremely bad... on games that are DX11 and older. I'm sure that all plays a part in the pricing.
All I’m gonna say is Intel has some of the most talented engineers on earth. They should be able to overcome this.
See @Jragghen , you're no longer talented. We didn't want to tell you.
Nah, but seriously, fun story of how I got my job in the first place - my school had (I assume still has, but whatever) career fairs where companies come to recruit people and you can drop off resumes and whatnot, and actually has an entire building dedicated to giving employers space to be able to do interviews while they're in town. I dropped off my resume a few places, including Intel, but didn't get an immediate interview with them. One of my friends did. After he did the interview, we talked about the questions he got, etc, and some of them were "man, I don't know the answer to that, let's look it up" (it was things like how to do certain things in a linux environment, stuff like that), so we google it. And get a form page of interview questions for Intel, with most of the questions he got asked, along with answers.
Two days later I get a call from Intel to set up a phone interview. Set it up, do the interview.....same questions. Not exactly, but hitting in a lot of the same areas.
Suffice to say that was just the first round (and no, I didn't pull up the site during the interview or anything), and I had to do the like 5-interviews-in-a-row-on-different-topics gauntlet on the onsite to actually get HIRED, but it still kinda amuses me that they found my friend's resume more interesting, interviewed him then, he didn't make it to the second round but because they were stupid enough to do form interview questions in the first round and we got curious enough to try to look up answers to questions he didn't know, I likely did due to the edge.
(I've been on the OTHER side of the interview process and was expected to make up my own questions from scratch for it, so it's definitely not a thing any longer, I don't think).
The A380 had some weird issues like being unable to hold steady framerate above 90 FPS even in light workloads. Whether the driver's fault or not I think reviewers are going to find some serious weaknesses with the A770 that make its price appropriate.
+2
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
$329 tho
+1
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The A380 had some weird issues like being unable to hold steady framerate above 90 FPS even in light workloads. Whether the driver's fault or not I think reviewers are going to find some serious weaknesses with the A770 that make its price appropriate.
If my untrained self could point to anything it would be the chiplet design, which is just a really advanced on-die SLI.
And yeah, there's work to be done, and the A770 will probably suffer on release. But if there's a company who can hammer that shit out, it's Intel.
The A380 had some weird issues like being unable to hold steady framerate above 90 FPS even in light workloads. Whether the driver's fault or not I think reviewers are going to find some serious weaknesses with the A770 that make its price appropriate.
If my untrained self could point to anything it would be the chiplet design, which is just a really advanced on-die SLI.
And yeah, there's work to be done, and the A770 will probably suffer on release. But if there's a company who can hammer that shit out, it's Intel.
RDNA3 is going to have a chiplet design and you can bet that AMD won't have those same issues.
It's almost certainly driver issues. Intel has literally admitted that their drivers are not good enough.
Regarding Ryzen 7000, there's apparently a decent ability to undervolt and reduce temperatures by setting target power limits. In the Optimum Tech video below, the author applies a rather substantial undervolt and power limit that gets basically stock results while dropping temperatures 10's of degrees. There's also a bunch of other options depending on what type of overclock/undervolt/power limit configuration you want to set and the silicon allows.
Digital Foundry has some exclusive early coverage of DLSS3 with a good bit of their own footage in Spideyman, CP2077 and Portal RT.
A few takeaways:
- Frame Generation requires Reflex and VRR
- Performance gain for frame generation vs DLSS 2 is usually just under 2x
- Latency increase is small over DLSS 2, usually 10 ms or less. (but you sure aren't getting improved latency like actual 2x framerate would.)
- There is more noticable artifacting in the generated frames than DLSS 2, although it still compares very favorably with other interpolation post-processing methods that don't have motion vectors.
- Although frame generation does let you overcome CPU limits on framerate, its not going to hide stutter caused by a struggling CPU. Ideally you would want a cap on your base framerate before interpolation, but it's not clear if that is even possible in DLSS 3.
And I’ve been led to believe it can’t have an additional ssd card added to it? Cos I screwed up and got a 256 gig one, which is way too small, and since windows is installed on it, I’ll have to replace the drive and reinstall windows or something hey? Sorry for the basic question new at this
Yeah it looks like it only has 1 M.2 socket and 256GB is kind of a small one to use. I mean it's fine for just a boot drive, but not if you want to have your Steam folder on it too.
Best $/GB is usually the 2TB ones these days, but definitely look around for the deals - apparently there's a bit of a glut of SSD memory at the moment. Remember that your B450 motherboard only has PCIE3, so there's not much point paying extra for a PCIE4 drive unless you plan to get a new motherboard & CPU any time soon. The actual performance difference is marginal anyway.
As you only have the one M.2 socket you're probably looking at doing a reinstall of Windows. This may mean reactivating it too so make sure you have the license key to hand.
NB: That board has plenty of SATA sockets for SATA SSDs for things that will benefit less from being on a fast drive (older games, media stuff etc). I have been very happy with my Crucial MX500s for this role.
Edit: Given the trivial resale value of a used 256GB M.2, I'd suggest that you hang on to it as a handy known-good drive with a known-good windows setup that you can use as an emergency back/trouble shooting tool later if the need arises.
V1m on
+1
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Had an amusing conversation with someone at work.
'My PC doesn't get any video output, I think my video card has died, I've ordered a cheap one to plug in and see what happens'.
A few days later.
'Well I plugged it in and it all boots up and I get video, so I guess the video card was bad.'
A few days later.
'My new video card died! Must have been a bad one as well'.
'I think you may want to investigate other components. Like your power supply.'
'But I love that power supply I've had it over 10 years!'
'I think you may want to buy a new power supply right away.'
'... but I love that power supply.'
'My PC doesn't get any video output, I think my video card has died, I've ordered a cheap one to plug in and see what happens'.
A few days later.
'Well I plugged it in and it all boots up and I get video, so I guess the video card was bad.'
A few days later.
'My new video card died! Must have been a bad one as well'.
'I think you may want to investigate other components. Like your power supply.'
'But I love that power supply I've had it over 10 years!'
'I think you may want to buy a new power supply right away.'
'... but I love that power supply.'
And I’ve been led to believe it can’t have an additional ssd card added to it? Cos I screwed up and got a 256 gig one, which is way too small, and since windows is installed on it, I’ll have to replace the drive and reinstall windows or something hey? Sorry for the basic question new at this
You can get an adapter and clone the drive to a larger drive. You don't have to install fresh windows. I recommend Macrium Reflect (multiple very thorough YT vids on how to use it)
And I’ve been led to believe it can’t have an additional ssd card added to it? Cos I screwed up and got a 256 gig one, which is way too small, and since windows is installed on it, I’ll have to replace the drive and reinstall windows or something hey? Sorry for the basic question new at this
You have a few options.
I have the higher end, Intel socket version of your motherboard--or I thought I did, until I realize that yours is Micro-ATX, and thus, only has one Nvme socket.
You don't actually need to complete set up a new installation of Windows. If you're determine to make the maximum advantage of your one Nvme socket, you could actually buy the fastest M.2 card in your budget, and then get a SATA to M2 adapter (they're about $10 to 20 on Amazon), install the new storage into that, and use free drive-cloning software (I'm partial to AOMEI Backupper myself, I've been using them for more than a decade and they've yet to let me down, I should actually probably just give them money at this point), then swap the new card and the old card. Once you've confirmed you can boot up properly (which is not as seamless as you might think), you can repurpose the old 256 GB card.
If you want to take the even easier route, and you're more patient, you could use a USB to M2 adapter (though this would have the effect of turning one of your M2 cards into a large, fast but rather awkward thumb drive).
Whatever the case, you actually have a variety of options. I actually used one on my previous build, because the ASUS Z97-A motherboard was old enough that the M.2 socket was slightly slower than my free PCI Express slot...I ended up using a Sabrent Rocket 1 TB card seated into an PCI to M.2 adapter as my boot drive until I replaced the entire PC; the Sabrent Rocket 1 TB is now my secondary game-playing drive (I have 2 NVme, and 2 Western Digital Greens, each 4 TB).
+2
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
You don't even need to go with another nvme drive, or reinstalling/moving windows if you just want a bigger game drive.
You can get a good Sata SSD for good price and use that instead.
Just an option.
I mainly play total war so I’m a bit worried about sata ssd cos isn’t it slower for loading games?
Marginally. Your looking at a few seconds difference between a SATA and an NVME, and minutes between a SATA and a HDD.
I played Warhammer 2 off a SATA for years. It’s fine.
+3
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Just a heads up that Direct Storage, the Microsoft implementation of GPU reading directly from storage, will require an NVME drive (and they recommend PCIe4).
It's probably a good year away from the first game to use it, so it's not urgent, but if you're looking to invest long term I feel this is something to be cognizant of.
Posts
Also, are there any RGB gurus in the thread using Corsair stuff specifically? if I have a RGB AIO cooler, RGB case fans and 6 additional case fans can I simply connect the two RGB controllers together in order to manage everything centrally or is there another device I need to route them to in order for everything to run as one?
Also, that Linus Tech Tips video in the OP is really, really helpful.
2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
Like has been said, the odds are low enough that something will be broken that it's not really worth it.
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-announces-arc-a770-gpu-at-329-launches-october-12th
e: This is especially noteworthy because it has AV1 encode/decode, so this has value for folks outside of gaming.
If the A770 comes in at 3060 levels thats a hell of a play for the mid/low range Nvidia has abandoned.
I'm glad to see it.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/1073245/intel-13th-gen-core-cpus-raptor-lake-reveal.html
you can thank the collapsing display ad market fueled by many factors for that. They do have some of the best work (in my opinion), but it can be hard sometimes. And I really try not to turn on ad blockers because ad blocking is one of the reasons the ad market collapsed.
Honestly wonder if there was an emergency meeting after nvidia's "prices don't go down" conference where someone went "if we cut the planned price by $50 we can steal a TON of marketshare"
As for the CPUs, 13th gen is still compatible with DDR4. Won’t help with performance, necessarily, but it might help adoption, since the board and RAM can be upgraded later.
Yeah we don't need to litigate the good and bad of ad blocking, that stuff is all well documented and everyone makes their own decisions. A question was asked about the number of ads on PC World, and that is one reason, but not the only reason. We can get back to talking about how interesting Intel 13th gen looks.
There is also the driver issue with the Intel GPU's, in that the drivers appear to be... extremely bad... on games that are DX11 and older. I'm sure that all plays a part in the pricing.
That has actually been their overt rationale for the price: they're pricing on performance of the "worst performing games", even if DX12 games it might be top tier.
Yeah, AMD is going to lose the mid-range to Raptor Lake because of that. AM5 motherboards and DDR5 RAM are expensive.
All I’m gonna say is Intel has some of the most talented engineers on earth. They should be able to overcome this.
Super-weird that the 7600X is one of the parts they released first. No one is going to put a $300 CPU into a $300 motherboard. They should have just launched the 7900 and 7950 to feast on the whales, and held the mid-range parts until DDR5 prices are down and B650 motherboards are available.
See @Jragghen , you're no longer talented. We didn't want to tell you.
Nah, but seriously, fun story of how I got my job in the first place - my school had (I assume still has, but whatever) career fairs where companies come to recruit people and you can drop off resumes and whatnot, and actually has an entire building dedicated to giving employers space to be able to do interviews while they're in town. I dropped off my resume a few places, including Intel, but didn't get an immediate interview with them. One of my friends did. After he did the interview, we talked about the questions he got, etc, and some of them were "man, I don't know the answer to that, let's look it up" (it was things like how to do certain things in a linux environment, stuff like that), so we google it. And get a form page of interview questions for Intel, with most of the questions he got asked, along with answers.
Two days later I get a call from Intel to set up a phone interview. Set it up, do the interview.....same questions. Not exactly, but hitting in a lot of the same areas.
Suffice to say that was just the first round (and no, I didn't pull up the site during the interview or anything), and I had to do the like 5-interviews-in-a-row-on-different-topics gauntlet on the onsite to actually get HIRED, but it still kinda amuses me that they found my friend's resume more interesting, interviewed him then, he didn't make it to the second round but because they were stupid enough to do form interview questions in the first round and we got curious enough to try to look up answers to questions he didn't know, I likely did due to the edge.
(I've been on the OTHER side of the interview process and was expected to make up my own questions from scratch for it, so it's definitely not a thing any longer, I don't think).
$329 tho
If my untrained self could point to anything it would be the chiplet design, which is just a really advanced on-die SLI.
And yeah, there's work to be done, and the A770 will probably suffer on release. But if there's a company who can hammer that shit out, it's Intel.
I still remember Matrox, even though they were relatively small
RDNA3 is going to have a chiplet design and you can bet that AMD won't have those same issues.
It's almost certainly driver issues. Intel has literally admitted that their drivers are not good enough.
A few takeaways:
- Frame Generation requires Reflex and VRR
- Performance gain for frame generation vs DLSS 2 is usually just under 2x
- Latency increase is small over DLSS 2, usually 10 ms or less. (but you sure aren't getting improved latency like actual 2x framerate would.)
- There is more noticable artifacting in the generated frames than DLSS 2, although it still compares very favorably with other interpolation post-processing methods that don't have motion vectors.
- Although frame generation does let you overcome CPU limits on framerate, its not going to hide stutter caused by a struggling CPU. Ideally you would want a cap on your base framerate before interpolation, but it's not clear if that is even possible in DLSS 3.
Gigabyte b450 Aorus M
And I’ve been led to believe it can’t have an additional ssd card added to it? Cos I screwed up and got a 256 gig one, which is way too small, and since windows is installed on it, I’ll have to replace the drive and reinstall windows or something hey? Sorry for the basic question new at this
Yeah it looks like it only has 1 M.2 socket and 256GB is kind of a small one to use. I mean it's fine for just a boot drive, but not if you want to have your Steam folder on it too.
Best $/GB is usually the 2TB ones these days, but definitely look around for the deals - apparently there's a bit of a glut of SSD memory at the moment. Remember that your B450 motherboard only has PCIE3, so there's not much point paying extra for a PCIE4 drive unless you plan to get a new motherboard & CPU any time soon. The actual performance difference is marginal anyway.
As you only have the one M.2 socket you're probably looking at doing a reinstall of Windows. This may mean reactivating it too so make sure you have the license key to hand.
NB: That board has plenty of SATA sockets for SATA SSDs for things that will benefit less from being on a fast drive (older games, media stuff etc). I have been very happy with my Crucial MX500s for this role.
Edit: Given the trivial resale value of a used 256GB M.2, I'd suggest that you hang on to it as a handy known-good drive with a known-good windows setup that you can use as an emergency back/trouble shooting tool later if the need arises.
'My PC doesn't get any video output, I think my video card has died, I've ordered a cheap one to plug in and see what happens'.
A few days later.
'Well I plugged it in and it all boots up and I get video, so I guess the video card was bad.'
A few days later.
'My new video card died! Must have been a bad one as well'.
'I think you may want to investigate other components. Like your power supply.'
'But I love that power supply I've had it over 10 years!'
'I think you may want to buy a new power supply right away.'
'... but I love that power supply.'
It’s like the example of a abusive relationship
You can get an adapter and clone the drive to a larger drive. You don't have to install fresh windows. I recommend Macrium Reflect (multiple very thorough YT vids on how to use it)
You can get a good Sata SSD for good price and use that instead.
Just an option.
I mainly play total war so I’m a bit worried about sata ssd cos isn’t it slower for loading games?
You have a few options.
I have the higher end, Intel socket version of your motherboard--or I thought I did, until I realize that yours is Micro-ATX, and thus, only has one Nvme socket.
You don't actually need to complete set up a new installation of Windows. If you're determine to make the maximum advantage of your one Nvme socket, you could actually buy the fastest M.2 card in your budget, and then get a SATA to M2 adapter (they're about $10 to 20 on Amazon), install the new storage into that, and use free drive-cloning software (I'm partial to AOMEI Backupper myself, I've been using them for more than a decade and they've yet to let me down, I should actually probably just give them money at this point), then swap the new card and the old card. Once you've confirmed you can boot up properly (which is not as seamless as you might think), you can repurpose the old 256 GB card.
If you want to take the even easier route, and you're more patient, you could use a USB to M2 adapter (though this would have the effect of turning one of your M2 cards into a large, fast but rather awkward thumb drive).
Whatever the case, you actually have a variety of options. I actually used one on my previous build, because the ASUS Z97-A motherboard was old enough that the M.2 socket was slightly slower than my free PCI Express slot...I ended up using a Sabrent Rocket 1 TB card seated into an PCI to M.2 adapter as my boot drive until I replaced the entire PC; the Sabrent Rocket 1 TB is now my secondary game-playing drive (I have 2 NVme, and 2 Western Digital Greens, each 4 TB).
Marginally. Your looking at a few seconds difference between a SATA and an NVME, and minutes between a SATA and a HDD.
I played Warhammer 2 off a SATA for years. It’s fine.
It's probably a good year away from the first game to use it, so it's not urgent, but if you're looking to invest long term I feel this is something to be cognizant of.