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[PC Build Thread] Don't wanna buy our $600 GPU? Well fine, we're not making any!

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Drovek wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I don't think Nvidia is actually surprised by this. They have stated publicly ever since the first crypto boom that the crypto booms are bad and result in the market falling out like this.

    Which is precisely why they over-saturated the market, sold expensive parts to their AIB partners, and then got raked over the coals by those same AIBs not wanting ANY 4000 stock until they could get rid of the expensive 3000 stock they were sold in a booming market.

    That leaves Nvidia in a bit of a fork because if they fuck around too long, then AMD will cheerfully launch RDNA3 and obsolete that 3000 stock anyway. Which is why both Nvidia and AMD (who are absolutely not a duopoly and would never come to a discrete informal agreement about how to handle this), are releasing their top-end SKUs - the ones that have no performance competitors - fairly soon, and the merely mid-high SKUs which would compete with those beautiful $1200 3080ti and $1000 6900s... next year.

    Intel are at least 2 more generations away from being in a position to disrupt this not arrangement, and that's assuming they don't can the project.

    Are they? The Arc Pros that just launched seem to indicate they're making headway to gpu competition

    Will you be considering getting one?

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    No but I'm also not buying a xeon cpu, I just meant they're clearly still making moves into the space.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Sometimes I sell my stuff on Ebay
    jungleroomx
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Yeah they're making moves, but in terms of becoming any kind of force within the context we were discussing, I think 2 more generations is the very least we can expect. It's not good Intel moving into the low-end GPU space when AMD is starting to sell APUs that can easily match that kind of performance.

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    The Arc Pro stuff is also just an announcement. They'll be available "later this year" from board partners yet to be named.

    Remember when the consumer Arc stuff "launched" and still basically doesn't exist?

    I hope intel makes a competitor to AMD and Nvidia. That would be good for everyone. But until they have a product that exists and is viable in that an average person can actually, you know, buy one.... it continues to be a paper launch and vaporware.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    OrcaDrovekDoodmannFremrahkeesh2000
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    32Gb isn't overkill if you can afford it. I went with 16Gb due to RAM pricing, which was out of control at the time, and have regretted it ever since. Games are getting big and I play stuff like Warhammer 3 which loves RAM. It's one the list of things to upgrade but money is tight atm.

    You can always go buy more RAM.

    Or just download some.

    You wouldn't download a car.

    s7Imn5J.png
    DrovekMechMantisan_alt
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Speaking of the Arc stuff, looks like they finally posted a benchmark video for the A750 (this is two tiers from their top card)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB8gIOFjWeA&t=376s

    Timestamp goes to the 1440p money graph timestamp. tl;dr - DX12 performance is on par, slightly better than 3060, theoretically. I'd obviously wait for independent confirmation.

    I didn't watch the whole thing, so not sure about DX11, nor on minimum frames as opposed to average (which is apparently where all the bad news in the 380s are), that being said, nearly 4x the EUs can probably help cover some of the stuff that might be seen at the low end.


    Anyway, I'm more than long enough separated from this, so personal thoughts
    The above is kinda-sorta where I expected things to end up - this one is 3060-ish, the top ones being more 3070-ish. Not going to set the world on fire, but not a bad first effort. But I also expected them to be coming out 6-9 months ago which would have made a lot of difference in how they'd be received, and I wasn't expecting the driver blaaaaaaah being the story, so here we are.

    To be honest, the thing I was expecting to be something of the story is something I haven't seen mentioned much at all - the ray tracing. The ray tracing in these cards should be good, and better than most folks were expecting (I believe it's supposed to be notably better than Radeon's current offerings, and the rumors I heard around the time was positive buzz on RT performance relative to nVidia comparisons. But of course, it depends on memory throughput performance, etc, and that was something I didn't get a chance to see prior to departure, etc, so everything in the above should be taken with a degree of hopefulness on my part.
    Ray tracing is what I worked on

    Jragghen on
    wunderbarThawmusDoodmannMvrckFremIanatorBanzai5150JimboCampySyngynehtmTrajan45MechMantis
  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Fun discussion point again. I've been using a used/refurb G502 (OG version) I got for cheap on Ebay, on my desktop. Thanks to you guys and your hammer fingers and complaints about switches, I've managed to collect spares when they go on sale. So now I have two new in box, sitting on a shelf.

    I decided to break one out yesterday because I got fed up with the cheapo HP 2-button mouse that came with my work laptop. I freaking love it.

    Now stop using percussive clicking on your mice. Think of the peripherals!!!! Don't take out your printer frustrations on the mice and keyboards. They are your friends.

  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Ray tracing is what I worked on

    Jragghen, when do you plan to release your own RT card, now that you're free of Intel's oppressive (and money filled) clutches?

    Mugsley on
    DrovekThawmushtm
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Never :D

    Also I'm now in another company's oppressive and money filled clutches.

    jungleroomxPailryderBullheadMugsleyIanatorSyngynehtmTrajan45MechMantisFoolOnTheHillan_alt
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Never :D

    Also I'm now in another company's oppressive and money filled clutches.

    Aren't we all.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    JragghenThawmusDrovekPailryderIanatorSyngyneTrajan45FoolOnTheHillan_alt
  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Never :D

    Also I'm now in another company's oppressive and money filled clutches.


    Jragghen is busy solving the problems of our generation: Competition in the GPU arena, Real Time Ray Tracing, Plastic in the Oceans, the Genetic Inability of some people to roll their tongues...

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
    ThawmusJragghenPailryder
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    tbh right now I'm mostly dealing with the fact that if I had all my patches on separate pages I might be making enough from my skyrim mods to be doing that for a living instead :V

    Jragghen on
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    32Gb isn't overkill if you can afford it. I went with 16Gb due to RAM pricing, which was out of control at the time, and have regretted it ever since. Games are getting big and I play stuff like Warhammer 3 which loves RAM. It's one the list of things to upgrade but money is tight atm.

    You can always go buy more RAM.

    Or just download some.

    You wouldn't download a car.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb7N-JtQWGI

    PailryderdanxsyndalisMugsleyFoolOnTheHillan_alt
  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    wunderbar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Never :D

    Also I'm now in another company's oppressive and money filled clutches.

    Aren't we all.

    Jokes on you I work for the Government

    Jragghenhtm
  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    This is a cross-post from the Windows thread.

    Wife's HP laptop installed update kb5014697 (22000.739). Now it bluescreens upon boot. I can only successfully make it into safe mode maybe 1 out of 3 tries. I've tried uninstalling the update but it reinstalls itself when I reboot. Does anyone have suggestions on how I might fix this other than a clean install?

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    nope, try to back up any important files in safe mode if you can get into it again and do a clean reinstall is my only thought.

    BahamutZERO.gif
    tsmvengyPailryderV1m
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    So Windows 10 up and decided it simply did not want to read my second SSD anymore. No reason, just "device does not exist". Cool, thanks. Won't read on either open nvme slot. Moved the SSD with Windows on it to where the second originally was and moved the second SSD to where Windows was. Windows still boots, second drive still won't read.

    So I bought an nvme enclosure in order to connect it via USB-C and see what happens. Works perfectly fine. Alright, fuck you Windows.

    Anyway, this machine is a few years old so when it starts to act up like this out of the blue is usually my tradition that it's time to throw <current year's> tax refund at a new build. The second drive really only holds my Steam library and other misc stuff, but since it seems to work fine(CrystalDiskInfo says it's still 100%) I may just keep it like this to use as an external going forward. That being the case though, my question is how well does a USB-C SSD function for general gaming nowadays? Is it fine as-is, or am I really really going to want to get Steam copied back into a direct nvme drive once I get the opportunity?

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Yeah I would try to get into safe mode, back up whatever you can to an external drive, and wipe the whole thing.

    steam_sig.png
  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    @Donnicton that SATA port on the mobo is dead. Use the others. You can also check for BIOS updates to maybe help

    V1mübergeek
  • DirtyboyDirtyboy Registered User regular
    Funny now that GPUs are actually in stock the prices take a dive.

    (From EVGA email)

    SaD8Qfz.png

    rahkeesh2000OrcaBahamutZEROBetsuniDrovekPailryderhtmMugsleyIanatorJragghenan_alt
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    It's finally happening. AIBs are now sitting on a mountain of unsold GPUs that would have been bought up by crypto miners. I expect prices to fall even farther as the 4000 series starts trickling out.

    DoodmannV1mMechMantisJragghen
  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    It's finally happening. AIBs are now sitting on a mountain of unsold GPUs that would have been bought up by crypto miners. I expect prices to fall even farther as the 4000 series starts trickling out.

    They’ve got no one to blame but themselves.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
    DrovekThawmusMugsleyBullheadIanatorBetsuniTrajan45KetarJragghen
  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    It's finally happening. AIBs are now sitting on a mountain of unsold GPUs that would have been bought up by crypto miners. I expect prices to fall even farther as the 4000 series starts trickling out.

    They’ve got no one to blame but themselves.

    From their perspective I don't know how bad it is, other than the timing never being good to watch inventory pile up.

    They can drop the prices bit by bit and try to track the consumer surplus this way.

    And I'm sure the profits of the last two years will make up for one year's poor profits. Though someone should check their financials in a year and see if that assumption holds true.

    htmDoodmannJragghen
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Dirtyboy wrote: »
    Funny now that GPUs are actually in stock the prices take a dive.

    Prices are almost approaching an approximation of “good value”.

    The question now is… how good will be the 40X0/Radeon Next be? If they’re only an incremental improvement over what we have now, then buying a cheap 30X0 now might be a 1080 Ti-esque investment: you end up with a really good GPU that lets you skip the next generation or more without suffering in comparative performance vs. latest and greatest.

    Unless the 40X0/Radeon Next can do much higher FPS at 4K for the most recent AAA titles, they seem like they might be skippable. If you have a 3070 or better now, 1440P is a pretty glorious combination of high quality and high FPS. Any new GPU seems like it would have to match that at 4K or be irrelevant to 30X0 owners.

    htm on
    jungleroomx
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    There's still huge room for improvement in Raytracing performance and I'm kind of expecting that on the Nvidia side. Thought I'm not sure how desirable that actually is.

    V1m
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    There's still huge room for improvement in Raytracing performance and I'm kind of expecting that on the Nvidia side. Thought I'm not sure how desirable that actually is.

    Considering the reduced development time raytracing represents vs bespoke lighting design, and the fact that all major engine platforms are jumping on it, I have a feeling studios are going to also be pushing for raytracing.

    We don’t have the hardware yet that can me the performance cost 100% livable without AI upscaling, and even then its touch and go.

    I’m guessing the 5000 series Nvidia cards and equivalent AMD ones will be the first real proper raytraced ones, just in time for the next console generation.

    Doodmann
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Can they get it to work without needing a fucking 2000W PSU thats the question

    Also Amazon has 970 Evo Plus 2 tb drives on sale for $189 bucks..... very tempting

    MugsleyDrovek
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    2 TB 970 Plus Evo drives on sale at Amazon for $189 bucks

    too tempting

    jungleroomxübergeekDrovekV1m
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Samsung is selling 2 TB 980 Pro PICe gen 4's for $240

    Daddy just bought himself a new boot drive

    jungleroomx on
    SoggybiscuitübergeekIanatorDoodmannDrovekPailryderSyngynehtmBetsuniMechMantisJragghen
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    If I call you daddy will you get me one?

    LD50PailryderSyngynewunderbarMugsleyjungleroomxFoolOnTheHillJragghenan_alt
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    @tsmvengy Thanks for creating the new thread. Been super busy in my personal life and haven't been on the forum in weeks.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    tsmvengy
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    So I’ve got a build put together on pcpartpicker but it’s telling me that it can’t check for certain things like cpu cooler RAM clearance. How do I go about doing that? This is not my first build, but it will be my first time using a non-stock CPU cooler, and I want to make sure that everything is going to fit. I’m not interested in AIO coolers since they have projected life spans of 5 years and I plan to use the machine for the next 6-8 years.

    Link to build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CPsxRv

    (Ignore the video card. That’s a placeholder / wishlist item that I might upgrade to in a year or two. The actual video card for now will be a 1060 gtx that I’ll harvest from my current build.)

  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    Man things have come a long way when I see a 3090Ti for $1200'ish and think that's a pretty good price.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
    OrcaMarty81CampyMugsleyBouwsTBetsuniIanatorTrajan45BullheadJragghenan_alt
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So I’ve got a build put together on pcpartpicker but it’s telling me that it can’t check for certain things like cpu cooler RAM clearance. How do I go about doing that? This is not my first build, but it will be my first time using a non-stock CPU cooler, and I want to make sure that everything is going to fit. I’m not interested in AIO coolers since they have projected life spans of 5 years and I plan to use the machine for the next 6-8 years.

    Link to build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CPsxRv

    (Ignore the video card. That’s a placeholder / wishlist item that I might upgrade to in a year or two. The actual video card for now will be a 1060 gtx that I’ll harvest from my current build.)

    You have to look up the cooler's dimensions and the motherboard RAM layout yourself but in this case that model will not block off any RAM slots, I think, it's a very moderately sized cooler.

    128 GB of RAM is a lot! Do you have a specific use in mind for that? Video editing? If you don't have a specific use case it might be better to get less but more expensive RAM with higher clockspeed.

    If you're gonna shell out the premium for a 5950x and 128 GB of RAM, I'd also shell out for a bigger cooler, and maybe a slightly more premium motherboard, though the current mobo would work, it just feels weird seeing a top end CPU and 128 GB RAM in a sub $100 motherboard lol.

    All the current gen CPUs say they only "need" around 125 TDP of cooling, but they'll utilize as much cooling as you can give them within reason for higher performance in their temporary overclock modes. It's hard to find a straight answer anywhere on what the best practice is for CPU cooling power, how much is too much and such. Might just be that more is almost always useful? The pure rock cooler you have now is rated 150 TDP, the larger and higher end shadow rock and dark rock coolers from that manufacturer can do up to 250 TDP. ... BUT those are the bigger coolers that might actually cover the closest RAM slot, which would make it annoying to insert or remove RAM from that slot even if it doesn't block the DIMMs from being in there completely, but that's only an issue if you're using all 4 slots. If you don't need 128 GB of RAM you can do 32 or 64 GB in two slots no problem.

    Last thing is I'd get 2x 140mm PWM fans for intake on the front of the case and 1x 120mm or 140mm PWM fan for exhaust on the back. Included case fans tend to be cheap, loud, non-speed controllable junk.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
    CormactsmvengyOrca
  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    I agree with everything above. For what looks like a productivity leaning build as opposed to gaming I'd spend the extra money on an X570 motherboard to have all of the nvme slots support PCI-e 4.0 and for the extra USB ports.

    I'd also suggest waiting until the new AMD CPU's come out this Fall unless you need the system right now. The big downsides of that are going to be are how hard will it be to buy the new CPU and motherboard in today's market and 128gb of DDR5 is going to be incredibly expensive if you really do need that much ram. Maybe with both AMD and Intel needing DDR5 for their current generation CPU's prices will start to come down but I wouldn't bet on that in the short term.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    @tsmvengy Thanks for creating the new thread. Been super busy in my personal life and haven't been on the forum in weeks.

    @GnomeTank glad I could help! If you think there's anything to change in the OP let me know.

    steam_sig.png
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    @Marty81 I agree with what has been said above. I would absolutely get an X570 board given what you're spending, and also think about the 128GB of RAM and whether that's really necessary.

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Yeah, even I think 128 gigs is overkill unless you have a specific need you’re fulfilling with it, and I recommend 32 GB as a baseline future-proof amount of RAM (higher than most on this board would recommend).

    tsmvengy
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    32GB is already kinda futurelooking, and 64GB is almost certainly going to see you to the end of the decade unless specific RAM-heavy tasks are contemplated.

    Save the money and spend in on getting a really good quality powersupply and a Noctua DH-15. Neither of these things will show up in NeoFetch or whatever, but they will save you trouble and grief down the road.

    Orcaan_alt
This discussion has been closed.