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[Total War] CA's apology tour

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Huh.

    I just realized I don't actually have the Blood DLC on the past games. I guess I've never missed it.

    Come to think of it, while I had it on TW3K and it was enabled, I did think it was a bit distracting sometimes...

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Why does this come out on a Tuesday and not today. It seems cruel.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Why does this come out on a Tuesday and not today. It seems cruel.

    Its my fault. I have a friend's wedding to go to on Saturday and a different friend's birthday on Sunday. They just wanted me to be able to focus on that real life stuff.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Why does this come out on a Tuesday and not today. It seems cruel.

    I don't get back from my vacation until Monday and they did want me to miss the release.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Why does this come out on a Tuesday and not today. It seems cruel.
    Because Tuesday is Newsday.

    --

    edit:

    Infinite oathgold is currently in the patch the content creators have

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LmY5RgEZVE

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    For those who know, am I going to need the DLC for WH1/2 as well in order to get Immortal Empires, or is 1 and 2 core on the same platform(e.g. Steam) good enough?

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    For those who know, am I going to need the DLC for WH1/2 as well in order to get Immortal Empires, or is 1 and 2 core on the same platform(e.g. Steam) good enough?

    Whatever you already own will be available in Immortal Empires. So, if all you have is base WH1,2, and 3, then all you will have are the factions and lords of base WH1,2, and 3. If you bought DLC for WH1 or WH2, then that DLC will already be available to you in IE.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Yeah just the base games to access the map, but if a specific faction, lord, or unit comes from a DLC then you need that DLC to use that thing.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    That_Guy wrote: »
    You know, Warhammer may have, like $300 across 3 games but at least you don't have to buy the same DLC again for each game like you do with the CoD or Battlefield games. EA has sold us the same half dozen or so maps and guns for (with minimal redress) in every Battlefield game made in the last 15 years. Acti/Bliz are even worse, selling the same game you already own as DLC for another game.

    Warhammer would be a prime target for loot boxes in the hands of any other company. You want a better weapon for your legendary lord? Maybe you'll win it from a Warchest. You can only buy them with Warpstone Tokens, a new in game currency bought with real $.

    I’ve bought them all twice, cos I love my Xbox profile and so jumped at the chance to unlock achievements on that platform as well. It also helped that everything launched at a discount on the windows store

    Unfortunately I’m overseas for the next month and a half so don’t get to play immortal empires straight away, but at least this way there’ll be a few patches out by the time I can play it

    Prohass on
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    And even if you don't own the DLC, the faction will still be there for you to fight.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    And even if you don't own the DLC, the faction will still be there for you to fight.
    Yeah, but if you pay for the DLC then the Trait you get for defeating those Legendary Lords will be stronger.

    /s

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    And even if you don't own the DLC, the faction will still be there for you to fight.
    Yeah, but if you pay for the DLC then the Trait you get for defeating those Legendary Lords will be stronger.

    /s

    Paradox would lock that trait behind the DLC paywall.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I have too many LLs I want to play before getting to the DLCs.

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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Been avoiding watching any streamers okay IE. Just want to me surprised as much as possible by all the changes.

    Think I'm going for Archaon first, seems like Chaos will finally be how I've always imagined them.

    Can't wait!

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Some of the new and updated defeat traits:

    New for IE:
    Be'lakor: WoM reserve capacity +5 (Lord's army), Control +2 (local province), Casualty replenishment rate +5% (Lord's army), Weapon strength +5% (Lord's army)
    Boris: Leadership +8 when fighting against Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos, and Norsca

    Azazel: Leadership +4 (Lord's army), Weapon strength +3% for lords and embedded heroes (Lord's army)
    Festus: Casualty replenishment rate +5% (Lord's army), Vigour loss reduction: -15% (Lord's army)
    Valkia: Melee attack: +4, Armour-piercing weapon damage: +20
    Vilitch: Winds of Magic power reserve change: +10% when increasing (Lord's army), Melee defence: +5

    Changed from WH2:
    Karl Franz: Unit experience gain +10% (Lord's army)

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Looks like the DLC promo price is good for the whole first week so there's no reason to preorder.

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    LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Philosopher King The AcademyRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Looks like the DLC promo price is good for the whole first week so there's no reason to preorder.

    I mean, isn't part of the business of CA made up of pre-orders? So if you pre-order it makes the team look good?

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    I just saw the spell selection on the Daemon prince of Nurgle (Festus faction). He pretty much has all the good spells from Death/Nurgle with the exception of the Nurgle mega-splosion spell.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Looks like the DLC promo price is good for the whole first week so there's no reason to preorder.

    I mean, isn't part of the business of CA made up of pre-orders? So if you pre-order it makes the team look good?

    CA is a capitalist corporation. You don't need to make them look good. Preordering DLC is especially dumb becuase it's not like they're going to run out of copies. Just buy it when it comes out. Preordering things only further encourages the behavior. Preorder culture is toxic, expecially for digital goods.

    That_Guy on
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Looks like the DLC promo price is good for the whole first week so there's no reason to preorder.

    I mean, isn't part of the business of CA made up of pre-orders? So if you pre-order it makes the team look good?

    CA is a capitalist corporation. You don't need to make them look good. Preordering DLC is especially dumb becuase it's not like they're going to run out of copies. Just buy it when it comes out. Preordering things only further encourages the behavior. Preorder culture is toxic, expecially for digital goods.

    u cant spell capitalism without beginning with ca... teach the controversy,.,,...

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Great to see they changed up all the dark red menus in the UI. Also great to see Ku'Gath get some speedy units. Warhounds aren't much, but he badly needed some units that can disrupt firing lines and peel enemy units.

    Dark_Side on
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Most important news:

    Total install size after Immortal Empires is smaller than before. They managed to squish it from 120 gigs to ~104 with the new patch.

    Fiatil on
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    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    For someone who hasn't really followed TWWH (I have 1 and 2 and all the DLC for 2 but haven't really gotten into this game despite it being on a LONG list of franchises to get into - like Victoria and Galactic Civ), is the wildly mismatched user and critical response up to Immortal Empires not being in at launch and a fairly passionate fan base or are the legit issue I need to read up on? I played what I enjoyed of TWWH2 (only ever tried the Zombie Pirates and originally the Dark Elves) and loved the HELL out of TW3K (I know the diplomacy in these have never been their primary appeal and TW3K is a bit of an outlier) and want to give TWWH a real good whack in the "final form" of their engine, but curious if I should wait for a sale (on a SEGA game, I know).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really followed TWWH (I have 1 and 2 and all the DLC for 2 but haven't really gotten into this game despite it being on a LONG list of franchises to get into - like Victoria and Galactic Civ), is the wildly mismatched user and critical response up to Immortal Empires not being in at launch and a fairly passionate fan base or are the legit issue I need to read up on? I played what I enjoyed of TWWH2 (only ever tried the Zombie Pirates and originally the Dark Elves) and loved the HELL out of TW3K (I know the diplomacy in these have never been their primary appeal and TW3K is a bit of an outlier) and want to give TWWH a real good whack in the "final form" of their engine, but curious if I should wait for a sale (on a SEGA game, I know).

    A huge amount of it was a combination of not having IE and disliking certain mechanics in the RoC campaign, yes.

    As far as I know, most people liked the actual game.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    ED! wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really followed TWWH (I have 1 and 2 and all the DLC for 2 but haven't really gotten into this game despite it being on a LONG list of franchises to get into - like Victoria and Galactic Civ), is the wildly mismatched user and critical response up to Immortal Empires not being in at launch and a fairly passionate fan base or are the legit issue I need to read up on? I played what I enjoyed of TWWH2 (only ever tried the Zombie Pirates and originally the Dark Elves) and loved the HELL out of TW3K (I know the diplomacy in these have never been their primary appeal and TW3K is a bit of an outlier) and want to give TWWH a real good whack in the "final form" of their engine, but curious if I should wait for a sale (on a SEGA game, I know).

    3 was dramatically buggier than 2 and 1 were at launch. Battles were noticeably sluggish, units were unresponsive and would get stuck on each other, and ranged units were worse at actually seeing and shooting things. I wouldn't say most people liked it at launch given that the player base numbers are so low and the fan reviews were so low at launch (they have steadily improved as patches have come out).

    2 was not similarly review bombed at launch for not including Mortal Empires -- we didn't know the timeline of the IE launch at the time it was getting heavily review bombed, so you can't chalk up the bad reviews to IE's launch timing until a month or so into launch (I'm sure the announcement that it was coming out 5 months later lead to another round of review bombing, but it was being reviewed terribly before that).

    But, they've patched it a lot and Immortal Empires is basically a soft relaunch. They put what is generally considered to be their "good team" to work on 3 after launch, and it's been improved tons and unless Immortal Empires introduces a bunch of terrible problems for some reason, it should be a good hopping on point.

    I was one of its bigger critics at launch, but the recent patches have been good and IE should fix the issue of the Realms of Chaos campaign still being pretty lackluster. The game never had any huge fatal unfixable flaws; it was just launched in a rougher state than its predecessors with a campaign that a lot of people didn't like. The rough state has been largely fixed with patches, and the campaign should be fixed with IE tomorrow.

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    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really followed TWWH (I have 1 and 2 and all the DLC for 2 but haven't really gotten into this game despite it being on a LONG list of franchises to get into - like Victoria and Galactic Civ), is the wildly mismatched user and critical response up to Immortal Empires not being in at launch and a fairly passionate fan base or are the legit issue I need to read up on? I played what I enjoyed of TWWH2 (only ever tried the Zombie Pirates and originally the Dark Elves) and loved the HELL out of TW3K (I know the diplomacy in these have never been their primary appeal and TW3K is a bit of an outlier) and want to give TWWH a real good whack in the "final form" of their engine, but curious if I should wait for a sale (on a SEGA game, I know).

    A huge amount of it was a combination of not having IE and disliking certain mechanics in the RoC campaign, yes.

    As far as I know, most people liked the actual game.

    Is "RoC Campaign" the "Russian" bit with the Bear-God stuff? I played TWW3 a little at launch but like just the tutorial part (can't remember why I dropped it, likely to get back to ER maybe). If a lot of this is up to narrative and lack of IE being ready at launch, I'm jumping in (I just checked and a sale that wasn't there before is there now).
    Fiatil wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really followed TWWH (I have 1 and 2 and all the DLC for 2 but haven't really gotten into this game despite it being on a LONG list of franchises to get into - like Victoria and Galactic Civ), is the wildly mismatched user and critical response up to Immortal Empires not being in at launch and a fairly passionate fan base or are the legit issue I need to read up on? I played what I enjoyed of TWWH2 (only ever tried the Zombie Pirates and originally the Dark Elves) and loved the HELL out of TW3K (I know the diplomacy in these have never been their primary appeal and TW3K is a bit of an outlier) and want to give TWWH a real good whack in the "final form" of their engine, but curious if I should wait for a sale (on a SEGA game, I know).

    3 was dramatically buggier than 2 and 1 were at launch. Battles were noticeably sluggish, units were unresponsive and would get stuck on each other, and ranged units were worse at actually seeing and shooting things. I wouldn't say most people liked it at launch given that the player base numbers are so low and the fan reviews were so low at launch (they have steadily improved as patches have come out).

    2 was not similarly review bombed at launch for not including Mortal Empires -- we didn't know the timeline of the IE at the time it was getting heavily review bombed (though I'm sure the announcement that it was coming out 5 months later lead to another round of review bombing).

    But, they've patched it a lot and Immortal Empires is basically a soft relaunch. They put what is generally considered to be their "good team" to work on 3 after launch, and it's been improved tons and unless Immortal Empires introduces a bunch of terrible problems for some reason, it should be a good hopping on point.

    I was one of its bigger critics at launch, but the recent patches have been good and IE should fix the issue of the Realms of Chaos campaign still being pretty lackluster.

    That makes sense. Especially the bit about the IE timeline not being in; I can see the lack of its inclusion being easier to swallow if you had an actual date at release. Also, yowza looking at those charts on Steamdb is wild (talking about user engagement from then versus now).

    . . .in any case the sale price (for what it is) is just a sign to jump back in for realsies I'm thinking (well thought: already pushed purchase). It'd be nice to get the diplomacy options in this one, but I read an article that had a good point: it's easy to do a diplo-layer when everyone follows the same rules and are open to negotiations. Having different diplo-rules for different classes of faction (and subclasses) would probably be a nightmare.

    ED! on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    RoC is Realms of Chaos, which is the campaign mode for 3

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    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    RoC is Realms of Chaos, which is the campaign mode for 3

    Is that like the "Soul Well" (I can't remember the name; it's in the intro cinematic) bit from TWW2 and how each of the factions had their own bespoke interaction with it? Been reading that there's a mod (or ini file change) that you can do to remove that completely (as the description I've read - Luke Plunkett review, and they're pretty on the nose with what works in theory versus in practice for vidya games - make it sound pointless, unavoidable and far outstripping the "fun to tedium" ratio in the formers direction.

    . . .anywho, the discussion around this release on Steam from the developers sounds really good so I'll spend a few hours tonight farting around and relearning the rules (I remember spending hours on YouTube when learning TWW2 rules) in prep for tomorrow (and farting around during an all day grant writing workshop).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    I think if you drill down to the essence of the Warhammer 3's issues on launch, it wasn't the bugs, it wasn't the half assed skill trees, the chaos campaign mechanics, etc. It simply wasn't that fun to play, especially compared to the current state of WH2*. I still haven't found it all that fun to play, but am very much looking forward to Immortal Empires dropping which I think will bring it all together.

    *It's important to note that WH2 basically had years of updates and well received DLC prior to WH3's launch, so player's expectations were very very high. Fairly or not is really in the eye of the beholder.

    Dark_Side on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    RoC is Realms of Chaos, which is the campaign mode for 3

    Is that like the "Soul Well" (I can't remember the name; it's in the intro cinematic) bit from TWW2 and how each of the factions had their own bespoke interaction with it? Been reading that there's a mod (or ini file change) that you can do to remove that completely (as the description I've read - Luke Plunkett review, and they're pretty on the nose with what works in theory versus in practice for vidya games - make it sound pointless, unavoidable and far outstripping the "fun to tedium" ratio in the formers direction.

    . . .anywho, the discussion around this release on Steam from the developers sounds really good so I'll spend a few hours tonight farting around and relearning the rules (I remember spending hours on YouTube when learning TWW2 rules) in prep for tomorrow (and farting around during an all day grant writing workshop).

    Yes, it's the 3 version of the Vortex.

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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I just wish there was a better reason to enter the chaos realms other than "collect the soul"

    Give me random stacks that drop sweet loot.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    To give you an idea how buggy launch was for some people the game had it could peg your gpu at 100% no matter the scene complexity, settings, vsync or how beefy your rig was causing it to thermal throttle and the frame rate going sub 10. It also ran very poorly on Alderlake cpus. They actually made it run worse on alder lake trying to fix it, causing the cpus to also experience thermal throttling. It took them two to three months to get those issues sorted.

    I was affected by the gpu issue so this game was unplayable for two months by which time I only cared about IE. Unfortunately with UK energy bills about to hit £4.5k-£6k+ a year I can't really play IE or buy any DLC so that's fun.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I think if you drill down to the essence of the Warhammer 3's issues on launch, it wasn't the bugs, it wasn't the half assed skill trees, the chaos campaign mechanics, etc. It simply wasn't that fun to play, especially compared to the current state of WH2*. I still haven't found it all that fun to play, but am very much looking forward to Immortal Empires dropping which I think will bring it all together.

    *It's important to note that WH2 basically had years of updates and well received DLC prior to WH3's launch, so player's expectations were very very high. Fairly or not is really in the eye of the beholder.

    I still don't understand why CA looked at the Vortex race feedback and went yeah lets do it again but 'arder. Maybe it's hubris or they just have a limited view of what the bigger narrative campaigns can be in their titles.

    Having the preorder race also interact with RoC was also a bad decision. Their motivations are funny once but they could have used ogres to do a not RoC experience which might have helped reception a little. Maybe.

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    danx wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I think if you drill down to the essence of the Warhammer 3's issues on launch, it wasn't the bugs, it wasn't the half assed skill trees, the chaos campaign mechanics, etc. It simply wasn't that fun to play, especially compared to the current state of WH2*. I still haven't found it all that fun to play, but am very much looking forward to Immortal Empires dropping which I think will bring it all together.

    *It's important to note that WH2 basically had years of updates and well received DLC prior to WH3's launch, so player's expectations were very very high. Fairly or not is really in the eye of the beholder.

    I still don't understand why CA looked at the Vortex race feedback and went yeah lets do it again but 'arder. Maybe it's hubris or they just have a limited view of what the bigger narrative campaigns can be in their titles.

    Having the preorder race also interact with RoC was also a bad decision. Their motivations are funny once but they could have used ogres to do a not RoC experience which might have helped reception a little. Maybe.

    I don't get it either, but honestly, if I sit down and try to think of my own campaign ideas, they're not really any better. The race aspect was just bad though. CA seems just as bad as Piranha games and the Mechwarrior franchise where some of the decisions they make you wonder if they even play their own game.

    The realms campaign probably wouldn't have been a big deal though if they had given some sliders/switches to control how much of the player's game is effected by it. But instead it was like they designed every aspect of it to be as punishing/grindy to the player as possible. You take attrition the whole time you're in there. And also you are going to get an annoying, sometimes debilitating negative trait that will take time and a special building to remove after. Only your lord can enter so forget about using cast off armies instead. And the whole time the realms are open random shit will pop out of vortex's in your territory and annoy you. And you lose the game if you ignore the soul chase.

    Dark_Side on
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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I think if you drill down to the essence of the Warhammer 3's issues on launch, it wasn't the bugs, it wasn't the half assed skill trees, the chaos campaign mechanics, etc. It simply wasn't that fun to play, especially compared to the current state of WH2*. I still haven't found it all that fun to play, but am very much looking forward to Immortal Empires dropping which I think will bring it all together.

    *It's important to note that WH2 basically had years of updates and well received DLC prior to WH3's launch, so player's expectations were very very high. Fairly or not is really in the eye of the beholder.

    I still don't understand why CA looked at the Vortex race feedback and went yeah lets do it again but 'arder. Maybe it's hubris or they just have a limited view of what the bigger narrative campaigns can be in their titles.

    Having the preorder race also interact with RoC was also a bad decision. Their motivations are funny once but they could have used ogres to do a not RoC experience which might have helped reception a little. Maybe.

    17 years of experience tell me that gross incompetency from management and developers is pretty much par for course once a company gets to a certain size. Turn over and company politics eventually put people who do not know anything and do not care to learn about anything in positions of power. The few companies that can grow large and not fall into this trap are the rare ones. Common sense just stops existing.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I mean, it seems like they know it isn't the paint the provinces map, so they want to try different shit.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, it seems like they know it isn't the paint the provinces map, so they want to try different shit.

    Yeah, but if you look at the trajectory of the series it's a strange recurring mistake that they then doubled down on in 3:

    Total Warhammer 1: The first race DLC packs have a more linear scripted mini campaign included. Largely, the community complains and says they don't want to pay for a mini-campaign they will never play; they prefer sandbox big map. CA responds by saying "Hey it gives our campaign map people something to do" -- they then eventually drop the mini-campaigns and drop the price of the Norsca DLC to $10 instead of $20, and future race DLC gets 4 LLs for $20 with no mini-campaign. Complaints heard, course corrected.

    Total Warhammer 2: Vortex had a mixed response but overall more positive than RoC, again largely due to not being sandboxey enough. Mortal Empires comes out after about a month, so everyone is pretty much happy. Future race DLC packs have option for Vortex or ME, but the races are not involved in the Vortex Race. Their objectives are generally praised and seen as a more fun alternative to the Vortex race, while taking place on the same map.

    Total Warhammer 3: Realms of Chaos, i.e. Vortex but more linear and more punishing if you ignore the scripted parts. Vortex lets you choose when to start the ritual, RoC has its scripted event happen on a timer without your input. Vortex encourages expansion similar to the sandbox campaign by having the ritual resource strewn throughout the map in certain high value settlements, RoC is typically easier to manage when you turtle and don't expand, and locks up your most flavorful fun lord (your LL) to the realms of chaos and away from the normal conquering stuff.

    The "why you do that" is -- why did they double down on the scriptedness? Why did they make it more punishing to ignore the scripted stuff than Vortex? Why did they make everyone have exactly the same objective instead of the varied thematic victory objectives that the DLC races got with Vortex?

    They showed a pretty clear path of understanding what the community wants and then course correcting, then went hard in the opposite direction with RoC. There's space for the community to be happy with something that isn't "100% pure sandbox", but it looks like the Tomb Kings victory conditions on the Vortex map, not doubling down on forcing every race to engage in the same scripted campaign events except this time with extra punishment for not doing the scripted stuff quickly/efficiently enough. I liked Vortex and was looking forward to RoC. But they took the worst mistakes of Vortex and amplified them with RoC, and it made me sad.

    Fiatil on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    To me, that sounds like the main game team was less interested in feedback than the DLC team.

    The DLC team are the ones that course corrected - they changed how they designed their packs, they designed Mortal Empires. They are the ones that decided to make their packs more sandboxy, they decided not interact with the Vortex race, they've decided not to interact with the soul race.

    The main team game made a relatively sadndboxy first game with a scipted narrative crisis near the end, doubled down on the scripted narrative again in vortex despite the DLC team learning the community didn't want that, then doubled down again on the scripted narrative in the third game despite seeing the huge positive response to the DLC teams focus on sandbox gameplay.

    Like I said earlier - it's been left to the DLC team to fix the bad decisions again.

    It would be great if they gave the DLC team the next fantasy game, but if they did that they wouldn't be making DLC for Warhammer 3 and the main game team would be, and we'd be getting more RoC style lord campaigns.

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