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[Total War] CA's apology tour

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    So a hugely interesting set of articles was just posted over the last couple of weeks on a collection of unmitigated pedantry (acoup.blog) about how Hellenistic pike phlanxes and Roman Legions actually fought, and it is intriguing.

    Especially since it seems like the Hellenic armies fought with more traditional hammer and anvil “total war tactics”, while the Legions were playing from a different playbook.

    Interesting how much the legion’s manipular structure sounds like an empire checkerboard formation, complete with allowing missile skirmishers to pull back from front lines while continuing to maintain missile fire, but also serving to allow full exchange of front line units with reserves in a way you really can’t do in total war.

    The rotation of men in maniples has been well-known for a long time. You can even see it in IIRC the opening scene of the HBO series Rome.

    Yeah it would be somewhat pointless to have a formation like a manipular legion if you didn’t plan to rotate forces.

    The thing though is it seems to be a fairly unique thing rome did, you don’t see a lot of other examples in history of melee armies rotating whole units (of potentially up to a hundred soldiers) on and off the front lines and maintaining cohesion like that.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    This Lost Calm: Jurassic Normal mod for Lizardmen is insane, and very good.

    It adds 37 new units (mostly different types of dinos) to them, that all seem to be super high quality so far. But it also adds a full caravan system to the faction to be able to use them -- you have to send out caravans to expeditions sites to harvest the dino eggs for most of the new units. It definitely adds some much needed spice to the Lizardmen on the campaign layer, and who can say no to even more dino variants? The writing for the caravan events is surprisingly good too:

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    Fiatil on
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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Not huge issues, but:
    1) The Changeling is definitely dumb to fight against now. Spamming detection buildings everywhere to detect one lord who I'm at peace with, to stop him from permanently locking a province to 100% Tzeentch corruption, isn't the best. Then after I do that and destroy a bunch of cults, he's still invisible (one I haven't found I guess?), declare war on him, and only got him down because he decided to ambush a settlement that autoresolved in my favor. He's probably coming back too, but is gone for now at least and my province is finally properly vampirey.
    FWIW, if your empire is big enough it's easier usually to just make a hero swarm of 8-10 heroes and rotate them around the regions in question instead of building detection buildings. VC actually have it easier than most since they naturally will spam out the Necromancer cap building.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Not huge issues, but:
    1) The Changeling is definitely dumb to fight against now. Spamming detection buildings everywhere to detect one lord who I'm at peace with, to stop him from permanently locking a province to 100% Tzeentch corruption, isn't the best. Then after I do that and destroy a bunch of cults, he's still invisible (one I haven't found I guess?), declare war on him, and only got him down because he decided to ambush a settlement that autoresolved in my favor. He's probably coming back too, but is gone for now at least and my province is finally properly vampirey.
    FWIW, if your empire is big enough it's easier usually to just make a hero swarm of 8-10 heroes and rotate them around the regions in question instead of building detection buildings. VC actually have it easier than most since they naturally will spam out the Necromancer cap building.

    Yeah I didn't even mention that because of how silly it is.

    You're right though, don't get me wrong!

    But the amount of attention you need to devote to one lord, who can be like rank 144 with 0 settlements when all of this is going down, shows that it needs some tweaking. I'd rather fight three Skarbrands than have to devote 10 heroes and/or spamming specific buildings around to find and kill one lord.

    Fiatil on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I, uh, don't usually use heroes outside of stacks

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I, uh, don't usually use heroes outside of stacks
    Not even for scouting ahead of your armies? You don't have to do HE/DE/Cathay hero stacking in one province but almost everyone can benefit from intel or having someone moving ahead to Block Army, Destroy Walls, or Assault Units of your main attack route.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I also don't.

    And its not because they're not good. Army Speed Disruption, and Army Attack are all exceptional abilities of heroes and you're far far far better off if every army group you're fielding brings a speed reducer and attacker (unless you're primarily a ranged army and the enemy is infantry*) rather than having those heroes in the army itself. Army Speed disruption is basically the difference between auto-resolving every battle with a decisive victory and getting flattened by the AI.

    Its because its a bunch more micro that i don't want to deal with. The end game is bloated enough without a having a billion heroes all over the place.

    *smaller enemy units make it harder to inflict morale penalties with artillery and so the reduction in effectiveness barely matters.

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I confess I tend to recruit a bunch of Nobles as HE for spamming Influence late game, like a dozen or so. I find that turning off the reminder to move idle Heroes keeps it from feeling "bloated."

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I confess I tend to recruit a bunch of Nobles as HE for spamming Influence late game, like a dozen or so. I find that turning off the reminder to move idle Heroes keeps it from feeling "bloated."

    This is true but because there are some I do need to be reminded of I tend to have to deselect every hero because turning off the option does not invert the election criteria

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    The Tzeench update for TWW3 is now online. Still no exact release date, but they said they were trying to hit release for this week (and will not) but are going to do the Kislev update this week along with another update on the release date. Given they are also going to do Kislev this week, its sounding like they think next week will be the 4.2 release.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited February 15
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    The Tzeench update for TWW3 is now online. Still no exact release date, but they said they were trying to hit release for this week (and will not) but are going to do the Kislev update this week along with another update on the release date. Given they are also going to do Kislev this week, its sounding like they think next week will be the 4.2 release.

    The new units look cool! Definitely not going to complain about some melee heavy hitter lords/heroes for Tzeentch either. Lol the total war subreddit is currently almost wall-to-wall being sad that Games Workshop won't let CA put a beak on Tzaangors though. I respect the passion and everyone seems to get that CA has their hands tied at least.

    This illustrates my decision paralysis with TWW3 pretty well though. We get 7 new factions, but know that they will all be getting DLC to flesh out their rosters. Shadows of Change hits and is blah, so I just keep trucking along with my Tzeentch runs with some modded units tossed in there. But there are some good Tzeentch units in there already, and more to come....so I get distracted half way and move to Vampire Counts to try to save my appetite a bit for Kairos run #45 when the DLC update hits.

    It's not a terrible problem exactly, as I'm enjoying the factions I'm playing. But now I'm eyeing up Chaos Dwarfs finally and it's like, damn, I still haven't played Cathay, Kislev, Ogres, Khorne, or Slaanesh at all! But there are DLC holes in the rosters and Chaos Dwarfs look pretty damn "complete" and fun. Orrr I could try to go finish a Wood Elf campaign with the new mechanics, or Beastmen, or........

    It has opened me up to modded units a lot more in 3 though. I was using a mod to add Chaos Warriors and Champions to Tzeentch right after launch -- the models looked great! -- but there was a bit of "well damn I've added very tanky melee units to this roster of amazing ranged units, is that OP"? But as expected, we get those eventually anyways, so hey just do it.

    Fiatil on
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    LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    I absolutely love that they've gone with references to a piece of Adrian Smith art for the Tzeentch Lord.

    Love it even more that they've gone to an old Realms of Chaos model for the Exalted Hero. I hope they go to that well a lot more in future, for all the Chaos factions.

    The Tzeentch Centigors are nice enough (the vague tiger-stripe pattern is a nice nod to 6th edition's Tzaangors, though maybe too subtlety done?) and Changebringers are... low hanging fruit.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Heh yeah Changebringers are very "slap a disc on em!", but they're going to be OP as hell and I want them.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The Kislev Dev Diary is up.

    Similar to the tragedy of beakless Tzaangors, the first 1/3 is CA explaining that Games Workshop is mean and won't let everyone have the Hag Mothers they so desperately crave.

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    They at least give a different lord so you aren't stuck with Boyars

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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Kislev additions look pretty nice.

    New tier 0 / tier 1 infantry is a big help. Kislev doesn't really "need" it in the sense of having a big weakness, but Kislev's early game strategy is really fucking boring and adding at least one additional unit to incorporate will help.

    Frost Wyrm looks rad, completely out of nowhere. Probably the right call, Kislev ostensibly has high tier monstrous units (even if some of them are unacceptably bad) so no reason for another in the same category. Mount option should be really fun and help distinguish different hero types a bit. Addition of more mid-tier melee combat options could help Kislev diversify tactics a bit too, despite having their own identity they do end up playing pretty ranged-focused most of the time.

    New hero looks fun, although I suspect what she'll end up doing in 95% of her fights is tanking a bunch of trash infantry so ranged units can fire unimpeded. Its a living.

    New lord seems boring at a glance, but they're a hybrid and the big deal is they buff ranged units, so you'll probably want to keep them in back as a supporting character and only use their melee to interrupt skirmishers. Kislev always had solid ranged options, but a range unit buff-lord does give them some opportunity to move away from "bear hero tanks + range unit spam" as the default solution to everything.

    Hoping to see some big improvements to their campaign mechanics too, which isn't something this preview was going to cover.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    The slide picture at the bottom is cute

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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    With the adjustment, I'm probably going to actually buy shadows of change, I'm very excited to see what they come up with for the next one as dwarves are my boys.

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Put me in the hopeful category but I'll forever be a dlc behind now to get it on discount.

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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    i love that they're course correcting on the DLC, its great when a developer acknowledges they were wrong instead of doubling down

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    The Kislev Dev Diary is up.

    Similar to the tragedy of beakless Tzaangors, the first 1/3 is CA explaining that Games Workshop is mean and won't let everyone have the Hag Mothers they so desperately crave.

    Sad, it would be a great thing with Ostankya.

    I guess the new guys are a bit better though, it was a bit jarring before..

    “We can’t use regular troops but we need a new army what shall we do?” “ BRING IN THE ARISTOCRACY!”

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    My personal cost analysis is that the DLC is still a bit overpriced for what is in it, but its now in the "pick up when on sale" range vs the previous "Don't bother looking at it" range it was in. I am glad that they realized that the outrage against their overpricing was real and they needed to fix things, whether dropping the price like in Pharro or adding more to it like in SoC.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    I'm slightly sad they went with 3 factions in the DLC instead of the old 2. It makes sense to an extent with how many factions there are now -- I just don't really care about Cathay or Kislev at all, but I will fight for Change until I'm blue in the face.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    They did say the 3 factions isn't set in stone and plan to experiment so maybe we'll see 2 faction DLCs again. Their statement on what to expect going forward as limited to what to expect from the 3 faction DLCs.

    I wouldn't mind single lord + units packs but I've been saying that since WH2 so.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-420/
    • New units, heroes and spells have emerged in the Shadows of Change!
    • Flashbangs be gone with some tweaks to excessive bloom.
    • Push Grand Cathay to its limits with the technology tree rebalance.
    • Embrace fury with changes to Rampage.
    • A suite of tweaks and fixes for UI, visuals, bugs and more.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    Patch is out now. Enjoy your naked BM centigors until the hotfix drops (unless it made it in under the wire).

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Hrm…

    Constructs and elementals apparently have demon/undead mechanics now.

    This seems to mostly affect Cathay who has tons of such units, but also elemental bears, incarnate elemental of beasts, and greenskin rogue idols.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Its not technically demon/undead mechanics. They just finally applied the Tomb King Construct mechanic to all constructs.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    It was weird that the rogue idol could be routed--yet also fitting?

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Its not technically demon/undead mechanics. They just finally applied the Tomb King Construct mechanic to all constructs.

    Yeah technically that is the case but since everything in Tomb Kings was undead and had the same mechanics anyway it didn’t matter too much. It makes a pretty huge difference to cathay.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    It makes sense thematically. It's the same idea of being magically animated for all of the above -- constructs, undead, and daemons.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-420/
    • New units, heroes and spells have emerged in the Shadows of Change!
    • Flashbangs be gone with some tweaks to excessive bloom.
    • Push Grand Cathay to its limits with the technology tree rebalance.
    • Embrace fury with changes to Rampage.
    • A suite of tweaks and fixes for UI, visuals, bugs and more.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ_NXAkzXWY

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Trying to play Kislev continues to be a son of a bitch

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Trying to play Kislev continues to be a son of a bitch

    I would love to do a jolly cooperation Kislev campaign. I think I did mine solo in the realms of chaos before warriors of chaos and it was fine.

    Karoz on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Trying to play Kislev continues to be a son of a bitch

    Play Ostankya, kill Malekith (surprisingly doable), then use her teleport to roll up into Kislev proper and liberate it (or ‘liberate’ it depending on how the AI is doing.)

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    The BraysterThe Brayster UKRegistered User regular
    Yeah I loaded up Warhammer for the first time in a while and foolishly picked the Tsarina for an IE game attempt.

    That situation is just one big 'Fuck You' in every direction.

    Steam: TheBrayster
    PSN: TheBrayster_92
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Oh, I meant specifically Katarin. Try to deal wuth Azhag before he gets a WAAAAGH and wrecks you, and Throt just comea down and overwhelms. Or vice versa

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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    I haven’t paid attention to Warhammer 3 since the Chaos Dwarfs came out, so I missed the whole Shadows of Change debacle. Seems like they made good on it now, but I’m still gonna wait for a sale price on that

    Did they do anything else cool and necessary, like finally rework the lizardmen?

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    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I haven’t paid attention to Warhammer 3 since the Chaos Dwarfs came out, so I missed the whole Shadows of Change debacle. Seems like they made good on it now, but I’m still gonna wait for a sale price on that

    Did they do anything else cool and necessary, like finally rework the lizardmen?

    They did not, but that cool Jurassic Normal mod I linked at the top of the page does a pretty good job for them. A lot more stuffff to do and dinos to collect at least.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    Started a Mother Ostankya campaign on RoC. Every time I revisit this game I lose interest after the first siege. Just can't be arsed with them at all.

    The campaign was going okay until Kairos showed up with a double stack and I'm was scrambling to get Gotreks army up to challenge Kairos. Sieges are just completely sapping my enthusiam for this game.

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