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[Total War] CA's apology tour

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Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    So, a few months ago (I can't recall exactly when, sometime in May or June I believe) Andy Hall of CA said that he had seen the TW3 roadmap, and Ind, Nippon, and Araby were not on it. So, if those three are coming, they are so far off that CA isn't even looking at them. However, he did not mention anything about Khuresh, leading people to believe that Khuresh will be coming at some point in the next couple of years.

    He also said that getting GW to create Cathay was "a coup" that was unlikely to be repeated, and to expect other eastern factions "probably never". (Andy Hall is the lead writer on Total War Warhammer, and former writer for GW.)

    CA have explicitly not said that Ind, Khuresh, Nippon, Araby, Southlanders, Fishmen, etc. are literally impossible. But they've been pretty clear for people to not get their hopes up.

    I'm not even sure where you could put araby at this point; the whole area is already cluttered with a million factions and unless you got super fucky their is nowhere you could justifiably put them in the Realm map.

    While I don't know how it would work in the Realm map, in the IE map, Araby is a giant one settlement province.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    So, a few months ago (I can't recall exactly when, sometime in May or June I believe) Andy Hall of CA said that he had seen the TW3 roadmap, and Ind, Nippon, and Araby were not on it. So, if those three are coming, they are so far off that CA isn't even looking at them. However, he did not mention anything about Khuresh, leading people to believe that Khuresh will be coming at some point in the next couple of years.

    He also said that getting GW to create Cathay was "a coup" that was unlikely to be repeated, and to expect other eastern factions "probably never". (Andy Hall is the lead writer on Total War Warhammer, and former writer for GW.)

    CA have explicitly not said that Ind, Khuresh, Nippon, Araby, Southlanders, Fishmen, etc. are literally impossible. But they've been pretty clear for people to not get their hopes up.

    I'm not even sure where you could put araby at this point; the whole area is already cluttered with a million factions and unless you got super fucky their is nowhere you could justifiably put them in the Realm map.

    While I don't know how it would work in the Realm map, in the IE map, Araby is a giant one settlement province.

    Which is like, half occupied by Repanse.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    its simple, they just triple the size of the map, add a full underground map for dwarves and skaven to live in permanently, a phantom zone where unethical gamers (tzeentch etc) can live, and they also add the sea bed

    shouldnt take more than a day or two of dev time, bit of art, ezpz

    obF2Wuw.png
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Im not sure what is stopping them from having multiple maps like in Empire TW

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    The load times for one thing. When Empire released, the load times to move between maps for me was horrendous. Multiple minutes on a loading screen waiting to switch campaign maps. Just a terrible experience.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    So, a few months ago (I can't recall exactly when, sometime in May or June I believe) Andy Hall of CA said that he had seen the TW3 roadmap, and Ind, Nippon, and Araby were not on it. So, if those three are coming, they are so far off that CA isn't even looking at them. However, he did not mention anything about Khuresh, leading people to believe that Khuresh will be coming at some point in the next couple of years.

    He also said that getting GW to create Cathay was "a coup" that was unlikely to be repeated, and to expect other eastern factions "probably never". (Andy Hall is the lead writer on Total War Warhammer, and former writer for GW.)

    CA have explicitly not said that Ind, Khuresh, Nippon, Araby, Southlanders, Fishmen, etc. are literally impossible. But they've been pretty clear for people to not get their hopes up.

    I'm not even sure where you could put araby at this point; the whole area is already cluttered with a million factions and unless you got super fucky their is nowhere you could justifiably put them in the Realm map.

    While I don't know how it would work in the Realm map, in the IE map, Araby is a giant one settlement province.

    Which is like, half occupied by Repanse.

    I am talking about the Great Desert

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    iron hail gunners confused me a bit

    they get obstructed so easily and they get tied up very easily too

    it turns out u just have to use them like flanking cavalry like some kind of brane using idiot, i hate it, but if u give them enough range and reload u dont have to use TOO much brane so its ok tho they arent really a spam unit

    their damage when boosted is absolutely nutty tho, ive had one high rank unit with a banner get like 300 kills just by parking them in a tree line then emerging to shoot the backsides

    oay900n5daxp.png

    it feels like a lot of deeps, that damage is 80% armour piercing

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    its simple, they just triple the size of the map, add a full underground map for dwarves and skaven to live in permanently, a phantom zone where unethical gamers (tzeentch etc) can live, and they also add the sea bed

    shouldnt take more than a day or two of dev time, bit of art, ezpz

    Also make your computer weep tears of blood. :P
    iron hail gunners confused me a bit

    they get obstructed so easily and they get tied up very easily too

    it turns out u just have to use them like flanking cavalry like some kind of brane using idiot, i hate it, but if u give them enough range and reload u dont have to use TOO much brane so its ok tho they arent really a spam unit

    their damage when boosted is absolutely nutty tho, ive had one high rank unit with a banner get like 300 kills just by parking them in a tree line then emerging to shoot the backsides

    oay900n5daxp.png

    it feels like a lot of deeps, that damage is 80% armour piercing

    If you like that you would have loved the rampant idiocy of Crane gunners a little while back; they had some... lets call them bugs... wherein their shots would pierce until they either hit max range or terrain, meaning that they formed a rather terrifying doomstack in their own right.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Ironhail gunners are also pretty boss against Ogres. You just need a sliiightly elevated position and they absolutely maul any ogres that try to engage your infantry. Against bigger monsters they don't even need any sort of elevation (so really good for shooting stonehorns).

    There is also the tactic where you deploy your alchemist (or even better, your magistrate/caravan leader) in a gap between two infantry units and then deploy two Ironhail gunners behind him/her. Any unit that tries to engage the alchemist/magistrate will be absolutely murderized by the Ironhail gunners. Once anything trying to get your lord/hero is dead there is a convenient gap that you can march your ironhail gunners through and rake the enemy lines.

    Overall I like having 2 Ironhail gunners in my second-tier armies (in my top-tier armies Dragon Guard crossbows have the same firepower while being overall tougher and more flexible).

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    The multiplayer tournament was good fun to watch. Credit to the commentators for managing however many hours of broadcasting they did.

    It's really interesting to see how differently the game plays when army composition is restricted by budget, and when the battle is determined by holding points rather than annihilation. Slaanesh and Vampire Counts seemed to be the strongest picks generally, but one of the best matches was Cathay vs Slaanesh simply because nobody thought Cathay could pull it off. The Iron Hail Gunners had a pretty devastaing effect in that match.

    altid on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    iron hail gunners also shoot a triple shot, so i assume flat damage bonuses apply per projectile - anybody know the mechanic there?

    obF2Wuw.png
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    I adore multiplayer for its strategic choices with limited resources but inevitably a meta comes out or builds vs certain factions.

    Still it is great to take all gobbo army one match then an all ork the next and know it will technically stand a chance.

    Karoz on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    So I wound up watching everybody's favorite mad lad earlier today and, well....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCNtT-CZmn8&ab_channel=Okoii
    Ghorst might very well be the shit now.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Ghost has always been great. Best vampire LL by far. His campaign buffs and in combat value make up for his “weakness”

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    zombussies + 160 prince philip dream team

    obF2Wuw.png
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    also a weird quirk of trade settlement; offering my skaven buddy an empty settlement was -8 to favourability, but putting my full doom stack in it was +2. when its traded they just pop out but its bizarre they assess it like that - i guess the settlement numbers are just boosted by all those passives, control etc but still
    Yes. It also works the other way. If a settlement has low control and high corruption, the AI will consider it to be worth way less. In some cases they may be willing to more or less give it away for free.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    its ok i have adopted a strong position of ignoring the fact any programming is involved, im zoomed in on a nurgle unit using the power of diarrhea to solve problems

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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Deffo looking forward to when they add Chaos Dwarfs, favorite WHF race by far. The Forges of Hashut must be fed by blood and servitude etc. etc.

    Edit: Plus I just love Hobgobs, won't hold my breath for a Hobgoblin Khan but I'll settle for Hobgobs in the Chorf army.

    "Aye, some of us speak better than our uncouth brethren. Indeed, we do most things better than the others, except perhaps, die in droves. We leave that to the Goblins and the Orcs. My lads aren’t particularly interested in falling on fields far from our beloved steppes, though we may be willing if the price is right. What are you offering? It will cost you extra if we have to leave anyone alive."

    —Choknech, Hobgoblin Mercenary

    Edit 2: Some writers really leaned into the whole "Hobgoblins are the most untrustworthy beings alive" but I always favored the interpretation that other Greenskins viewed them as so singularly untrustable because Hobgoblins valued shit like gold that makes no sense to most greenskins.

    Edit3: there's a great quote about hobgoblins from an old dogs of war book from a mercenary captain but I can't for the life of me find it

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Aren't Warhammer Hobs described as having developed a bone plate between the shoulders because of how often the cause of death is literally stabbed in the back?

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I'd love to see an expanded Hobgoblin roster and a Hobgoblin Khan LL. More variety.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
    https://youtu.be/WgUHb2GUFuo

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2022
    Deffo looking forward to when they add Chaos Dwarfs, favorite WHF race by far. The Forges of Hashut must be fed by blood and servitude etc. etc.

    Edit: Plus I just love Hobgobs, won't hold my breath for a Hobgoblin Khan but I'll settle for Hobgobs in the Chorf army.

    "Aye, some of us speak better than our uncouth brethren. Indeed, we do most things better than the others, except perhaps, die in droves. We leave that to the Goblins and the Orcs. My lads aren’t particularly interested in falling on fields far from our beloved steppes, though we may be willing if the price is right. What are you offering? It will cost you extra if we have to leave anyone alive."

    —Choknech, Hobgoblin Mercenary

    Edit 2: Some writers really leaned into the whole "Hobgoblins are the most untrustworthy beings alive" but I always favored the interpretation that other Greenskins viewed them as so singularly untrustable because Hobgoblins valued shit like gold that makes no sense to most greenskins.

    Edit3: there's a great quote about hobgoblins from an old dogs of war book from a mercenary captain but I can't for the life of me find it

    "A frightful hobgoblin stalks throughout the Empire. We are haunted by a ghost, the ghost of Cummunism"
    - Karl, poorly translated, complaining about Slaanesh

    also that 19 zombies video led me to finding a youtube channel where the dude who made that mashup remixes rappers to force them to actually rap on beat lul

    surrealitycheck on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    I would love a warhammer group that’s like a Persian empire with Greek, Arabic and Indian stuff

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    getting horse archer ptsd from rome rn but hell yea

    ive always wanted a game like this to include some of the less seen combat things from india eg gatka. wanna see some lads roll up with tiny spiky shields then punch people with them

    and then the bigger units u have so much to draw from, insane chariot stuff, interesting missile infantry, all kinds of monsters

    and of course w/ persia u have all the winged lion iconography, but if u wanted to do an interesting split u could have an ahrimanic faction that uses all the bizarre ideas behind demons that possess you to kill you, creatures that are specifically aligned with him (snakes, scorpions etc), specific buildings designed for excarnation that you need to use vs battle sites - ending up with a map covered with towers of silence to keep ahriman at bay

    and of course ur win con is some evangelion shit where the virtuous turn to pure light and the heat melts all the metal in the mountains, causing all creatures to have to wade through a river of molten metal as a final judgement

    obF2Wuw.png
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    and of course ur win con is some evangelion shit where the virtuous turn to pure light and the heat melts all the metal in the mountains, causing all creatures to have to wade through a river of molten metal as a final judgement

    fvn8sesdd9nf.jpg

    Karoz on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    its ok for the virtuous the experience does not hurt them, and skaven being rats (good bois) will be fine

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  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    iron hail gunners confused me a bit

    they get obstructed so easily and they get tied up very easily too

    it turns out u just have to use them like flanking cavalry like some kind of brane using idiot, i hate it, but if u give them enough range and reload u dont have to use TOO much brane so its ok tho they arent really a spam unit

    I try to have 1 or 2 in every Cathay army because they just obliterate melee lords. Gotta babysit them.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Thing about gunlines is they have to powerful but need to be a little finicky (not too finicky) to be effective otherwise there's no reason to even think about arrows with their archs of fire.

    In perfect conditions they will absolutely melt whatever they are targeting but yeah you got to get them set up right.

    The one exception is dwarven gunlines since they can fire over their breatheren. However, they lack a lot of tools that other races have such as chariots and cavalry so they end up paying for it in other ways.

    There's a reason why dawi are usually ranked fairly low in multiplayer despite being a pretty powerful faction on paper.

  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    I know the TW:3 designers were talking about changing red skills to be unit-agnostic, things like "Infantry get +X melee defense" or "+Y reload speed." Will be nice when that comes out so mixing bow and gunpower units doesn't cost you skill points or red line buffs.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Yeah that's usually a bummer cause my starting LL is usually slotted into the early units and can't really afford to put in a bunch of extra reds other than maybe the 2nd tier single points if I feel they'll work whereas Lord Bob down the line has no problem recruiting and buffing those troops.

    Exceptions for like Katarina cause her reduction to Ice Guard trait plus I think a tech? and a special building caused her Ice Guard to have less upkeep than basic kossars.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I know the TW:3 designers were talking about changing red skills to be unit-agnostic, things like "Infantry get +X melee defense" or "+Y reload speed." Will be nice when that comes out so mixing bow and gunpower units doesn't cost you skill points or red line buffs.

    Maybe we could get a red skill toggle that just removes them *cough cough*
    Karoz wrote: »
    Thing about gunlines is they have to powerful but need to be a little finicky (not too finicky) to be effective otherwise there's no reason to even think about arrows with their archs of fire.

    In perfect conditions they will absolutely melt whatever they are targeting but yeah you got to get them set up right.

    The one exception is dwarven gunlines since they can fire over their breatheren. However, they lack a lot of tools that other races have such as chariots and cavalry so they end up paying for it in other ways.

    There's a reason why dawi are usually ranked fairly low in multiplayer despite being a pretty powerful faction on paper.

    Dawi gunlines cannot fire over their allies. (Their cannon can sometimes)

    Dawi are MP weak because thunderers are priced elite and they have no way to stop cavalry/flying monsters or enemy artillery.

    And thunderers should be priced elite. But like. They’re basically the only good dawi unit.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I would love a warhammer group that’s like a Persian empire with Greek, Arabic and Indian stuff

    Not quite the same of course but IIRC a lot of the Dwarf armors and stuff were supposedly heavily influenced by Achemaenid and Sassanid designs.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    The only gunnery unit that can reliably shoot over friendlies on flat ground are leadbelchers over gnoblars. But saying that thunderers is the only good dawi unit is a grudgin'.

    On a completely different note, who ever said that fanatical only hands out preorder keys on launch was wrong. You get them right away

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2022
    I know the TW:3 designers were talking about changing red skills to be unit-agnostic, things like "Infantry get +X melee defense" or "+Y reload speed." Will be nice when that comes out so mixing bow and gunpower units doesn't cost you skill points or red line buffs.

    They should have changed skills to be unit agnostic in wh3. Too many lords red lines did not buff their units, like Alarielle not buffing tree spirits. I'm not sure they fixed that in 3.

    Arkhan does get special 'enhanced' vamp units with the red line baked in, so maybe the other lords will get the same treatment. Regardless 3 was the time to remove the annoyances in the red line and I was surprised they didn't.

    danx on
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I would love a warhammer group that’s like a Persian empire with Greek, Arabic and Indian stuff

    Not quite the same of course but IIRC a lot of the Dwarf armors and stuff were supposedly heavily influenced by Achemaenid and Sassanid designs.

    Chaos Dwarfs lean a bit more into that. (They have Lamassu, ringlet beards, Phrygian caps, etc.)

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    problem with the dwarfs is that although they have some of the motifs they are in feeling kind of anti-persian.

    you go from mottos like "ride well, tell the truth and never miss your target" embodying a certain kind of concept of virtue-in-action, a thousand-eyed god who deals with contract enforcement, anahita of the flowing water (horse-strong, no less) - a religion focused on an intense fear of corruption and contamination, but the whole thing shot thru with the consequence of developing in a region with a lot of people with a lot of space and horses

    a lot of elements of the persian religious stuff in that period would be actually quite interesting in a warhammer context - death was believed to be the possession of the body by a demon named "carrion" (and obviously the only way to decontaminate the body was to get a dog, the most divine of all animals, to come and inspect the corpse to drive off the demon). you could perhaps take some of that and turn it into some kind of intense anti-nurgle sentiment or something

    also the nature of the persian empire being this huge conglomeration of different elements, with zoroastrianism at various periods inventing the idea of an emanation in order to let everybody keep their own god (oh that god is real but hes just an emanation of ahura mazda, u can keep ur temple bro its no problem) while the dwarves are kinda very monocultural and conservative

    in conclusion dwarves need to give everything they stole back from those museums

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    problem with the dwarfs is that although they have some of the motifs they are in feeling kind of anti-persian.

    you go from mottos like "ride well, tell the truth and never miss your target" embodying a certain kind of concept of virtue-in-action, a thousand-eyed god who deals with contract enforcement, anahita of the flowing water (horse-strong, no less) - a religion focused on an intense fear of corruption and contamination, but the whole thing shot thru with the consequence of developing in a region with a lot of people with a lot of space and horses

    a lot of elements of the persian religious stuff in that period would be actually quite interesting in a warhammer context - death was believed to be the possession of the body by a demon named "carrion" (and obviously the only way to decontaminate the body was to get a dog, the most divine of all animals, to come and inspect the corpse to drive off the demon). you could perhaps take some of that and turn it into some kind of intense anti-nurgle sentiment or something

    also the nature of the persian empire being this huge conglomeration of different elements, with zoroastrianism at various periods inventing the idea of an emanation in order to let everybody keep their own god (oh that god is real but hes just an emanation of ahura mazda, u can keep ur temple bro its no problem) while the dwarves are kinda very monocultural and conservative

    in conclusion dwarves need to give everything they stole back from those museums

    Oh yeah, they aren’t really culturally similar at all, they just definitely took some elements of persian armor, etc and mixed it with the classic nordic inspired Tolkein dwarfs when they were making the newer Dwarf designs (like take the latest Hammerer or Ironbreaker minis and scale them up to a full size human and they would look very Sassanid,)

    But the Dwarfs are built so much different that you could put a Persian inspired army with them and they probably wouldn’t clash.

    I would personally love to see more Persian and Indian inspired elements in Fantasy in general, lots there to draw from in both cases and I think Cathay shows GW/CA can make an army based on a nonwestern culture without it falling too much into stereotypes.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    yes but i had to write a lot of words to really hammer home the point that dwarf vibes are WACK

    they are NOT CHILL

    they bring the party to a screeching halt with their bogus vibrational frequency

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