It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
It's hard to say if, like, an attorney wanted to, they could charge Baldwin with manslaughter. I think the worst he could be charged with is criminal negligence, which I honestly do think he should probably be charged with. But that MAA absolutely should be charged with manslaughter if they said the gun was cold.
Fiennes is trying to thread the needle on supporting someone for his career, but like Rowling is being a bigot, and any concern she has about women is entirely rooted in her bigotry. This "I'm a real women unlike those fake women" is patently insulting and deserves no "you can see it from her side" no I really can't Ralph because I'm not a bigot.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
+1
LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
i definitely can understand the problem with a franchise creating something so iconic as pyramid head, a monster that is completely tied into the narrative of the game he is in and tied specifically to the main character, and being like "so uhhhhh, how do we get this guy into the next game/movie/comic???". It's not like these things grow on trees, sometimes you just have a thing you make that clicks with the audience and sure you want to ride that.
It sucks though that the actual designer really hated his use in other things, which makes absolute sense because it simply does not work to put him in other things.
Shoulda just made a new guy, some sorta like Ziggurat Head
this came up earlier in the year when Pyramid Head was added to Dead by Daylight and he expressed frustration that no one uses the character he designed to be a mass-market Pyramid Head
I had no idea about the White Hunter though. I’m not sure how much more I would have liked it if become the series mainstay either. Like it removes the ties to James’ story but I’d still rather they have come up with something new instead of having Silent Hill just be full of pyramid headed people.
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
He's probably going to have PTSD from this for the rest of his life. I don't think that's just sad feefees.
There's gotta be a middle ground between him being a mustache twirling sociopath and an innocent angel who is the real victim here.
WORLDS BIGGEST DONDER FAN
0
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I think the middle ground of “don’t let this guy ever be in charge of a movie production again after his demonstrable negligence lead to this death” is a good spot to land, personally. Again, it’s like people ignore that he wasn’t just some random actor that was handed a gun.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
+37
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
He wasn't in charge of firearms, he was an executive producer. Unless you personally know he was responsible for everything leading up to the accident, it seems really harsh to cast all the blame on him just for pulling the trigger.
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
He wasn't in charge of firearms, he was an executive producer. Unless you personally know he was responsible for everything leading up to the accident, it seems really harsh to cast all the blame on him just for pulling the trigger.
Asking genuinely and not cattily, but how much of the coverage of the incident did you read and how much set experience do you have?
If he was so negligent in his producing that he could be on set and be unaware of ongoing safety concerns, that's on him. If he was aware and did nothing, that's on him. He is either negligent to a fatal degree, or he's actually homicidal, and neither is an option that makes me think he should be on sets any more.
+16
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
edited October 2022
He was an executive producer who was either in charge of hiring a non-union armorer or perfectly happy with continuing to serve as executive producer and lead actor while other folks did so
Straightzi on
+13
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
He wasn't in charge of firearms, he was an executive producer. Unless you personally know he was responsible for everything leading up to the accident, it seems really harsh to cast all the blame on him just for pulling the trigger.
Asking genuinely and not cattily, but how much of the coverage of the incident did you read and how much set experience do you have?
If he was so negligent in his producing that he could be on set and be unaware of ongoing safety concerns, that's on him. If he was aware and did nothing, that's on him. He is either negligent to a fatal degree, or he's actually homicidal, and neither is an option that makes me think he should be on sets any more.
I don't work in film production, but I did some reading on it. Blaming a producer of all things rather than the person directly responsible for firearm safety strikes me as needlessly specific, like it's only because he just happens to also be the guy who pulled the trigger. Do you know he was unaware? Do you know he did nothing? Then you have no grounds to say "fuck him".
This all feels needlessly hostile to me.
cj iwakura on
+2
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Like if this was a <20 credit actor who accidentally killed someone on the set of a movie because they were handed a loaded firearm and did not realize it, I feel like this would be a very different story
Baldwin could have thrown his weight around on this one and chose not to
+17
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
alec baldwin is a 64 year old millionaire with enough credits to his name that the filmography section of his wiki entry links to a whole separate page
"he shouldn't lose his career." he also doesn't need to keep his career of playing pretend on camera and doing publicity events on talk shows and everything else. i know theater kids think otherwise, but they actually won't die from lack of attention.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
It just feels a little mean spirited to me to say his career should be over due to something as vague as him being a producer and discharging a firearm that he had no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded. Living with the guilt of knowing he took a life, even unintentionally, feels like more than enough of a cross to bear. (Though if he's been selfish about paying respects to the victim, that's another story.)
Yeah, it must be really tough being Alec Baldwin. I bet he wakes up every day with that weight and thinks, “I wish I had been shot in the face by my boss instead.”
I'm sure he's not happy he killed someone.
I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
I think it is. It was an accident.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
He wasn't in charge of firearms, he was an executive producer. Unless you personally know he was responsible for everything leading up to the accident, it seems really harsh to cast all the blame on him just for pulling the trigger.
Asking genuinely and not cattily, but how much of the coverage of the incident did you read and how much set experience do you have?
If he was so negligent in his producing that he could be on set and be unaware of ongoing safety concerns, that's on him. If he was aware and did nothing, that's on him. He is either negligent to a fatal degree, or he's actually homicidal, and neither is an option that makes me think he should be on sets any more.
I don't work in film production, but I did some reading on it. Blaming a producer of all things rather than the person directly responsible for firearm safety strikes me as needlessly specific, like it's only because he just happens to also be the guy who pulled the trigger. Do you know he was unaware? Do you know he did nothing? Then you have no grounds to say "fuck him".
This all feels needlessly hostile to me.
It's only hostile if you're Alec Baldwin, he's the dude I'm mad at
I'm mad at him because he works in my industry, he works with the sort of people who are my peers and colleagues and friends. There are a whole lot of mechanisms that should've been in place to prevent exactly this, and none of them were there, and that is a direct result of several people fucking up their jobs, including the producers. I hope none of the people who fucked up work in my industry any more, not just him. But absolutely fuck him.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
he pointed a gun at another human being and pulled the trigger. he's lucky* he's not in jail.
* well he's rich, so.
he claims he didn't fire it, that it went off when he pulled it from the holster
FBI says "we doubt that"
They were using double single* action revolvers to my understanding, they don't just "go off", unless the hammer was already pulled back (which significantly reduces the distance the trigger has to be pulled, still doesn't make it "just go off" at random)
edit: so the difference between double and single action, to clarify is double means you can fire the revolver with the hammer uncocked (the hammer is what goes forward to strike and trigger the bullet in the revolver). for a double, the trigger pull is signifigantly harder and longer when the hammer isn't already cocked first, meaning it's basically impossible to do accidentally. this post was originally written under the impression they were using double action revolvers.
single action means you must physically retract and cock the hammer yourself first for the revolver to be capable of firing. if they were walking around with the revolvers already cocked, god help them what the fuck idiots all.
A producer and director that I've worked with and really admire took gun safety so seriously that, any time a prop gun came on set, he picked it up, pointed it into his own palm, and pulled the trigger.
I believe he phrased it as, "Why would I ask anyone to touch a gun that I'm afraid to do that with?"
Was it showy and a bit melodramatic? Oh, probably. But goddamn did it create an ironclad culture of "Don't fuck with the fucking guns"
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
A producer and director that I've worked with and really admire took gun safety so seriously that, any time a prop gun came on set, he picked it up, pointed it into his own palm, and pulled the trigger.
I believe he phrased it as, "Why would I ask anyone to touch a gun that I'm afraid to do that with?"
Was it showy and a bit melodramatic? Oh, probably. But goddamn did it create an ironclad culture of "Don't fuck with the fucking guns"
I appreciate the sentiment but holy shit that is not gun safety, that's gun stupidity if they weren't also checking that the chamber was empty, the magazine (if present) was empty and then dry firing it. I assume they were, but...
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
A producer and director that I've worked with and really admire took gun safety so seriously that, any time a prop gun came on set, he picked it up, pointed it into his own palm, and pulled the trigger.
I believe he phrased it as, "Why would I ask anyone to touch a gun that I'm afraid to do that with?"
Was it showy and a bit melodramatic? Oh, probably. But goddamn did it create an ironclad culture of "Don't fuck with the fucking guns"
I appreciate the sentiment but holy shit that is not gun safety, that's gun stupidity if they weren't also checking that the chamber was empty, the magazine (if present) was empty and then dry firing it. I assume they were, but...
A producer and director that I've worked with and really admire took gun safety so seriously that, any time a prop gun came on set, he picked it up, pointed it into his own palm, and pulled the trigger.
I believe he phrased it as, "Why would I ask anyone to touch a gun that I'm afraid to do that with?"
Was it showy and a bit melodramatic? Oh, probably. But goddamn did it create an ironclad culture of "Don't fuck with the fucking guns"
I appreciate the sentiment but holy shit that is not gun safety, that's gun stupidity if they weren't also checking that the chamber was empty, the magazine (if present) was empty and then dry firing it. I assume they were, but...
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
+30
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
Okay we can blacklist the armorer and all the producers, I'm fine with that.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
+14
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
If I get shot to death working on a movie because of the negligence of a shit ass armorer that was employed because of non-union cost cutting (ie, negligence, I promise you, I swear to you, I will not give one single shit from the afterlife if those fucks that killed me finish the movie so my “work can be seen”.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
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I’m sure he isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that he should never be in that position again. Having sad feefees is not equivalent to losing one’s life and is not “more than enough”.
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I think it is. It was an accident.
I just want to add that http://www.silenthill.com is a good website.
I had no idea about the White Hunter though. I’m not sure how much more I would have liked it if become the series mainstay either. Like it removes the ties to James’ story but I’d still rather they have come up with something new instead of having Silent Hill just be full of pyramid headed people.
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He's probably going to have PTSD from this for the rest of his life. I don't think that's just sad feefees.
There's gotta be a middle ground between him being a mustache twirling sociopath and an innocent angel who is the real victim here.
A producer who creates and abides a known-unsafe set is an active participant in any harm that occurs as a result.
Negligence on the job extreme enough to result in loss of life is pretty much the best excuse there is to be unwelcome in that industry any more. A warehouse manager who fails to replace fire extinguishers and gets someone killed in a fire accident should not get to work in warehouses any more. A factory floor manager who fails to discipline workers who follows safety procedures, and sees someone killed in a preventable accident as a result, should not get to work on factory floors any more. This is not unreasonable.
With Rust resuming production, he is continuing to do a job he proved himself to be fatally incapable of doing responsibly or ethically. Fuck him.
He wasn't in charge of firearms, he was an executive producer. Unless you personally know he was responsible for everything leading up to the accident, it seems really harsh to cast all the blame on him just for pulling the trigger.
Asking genuinely and not cattily, but how much of the coverage of the incident did you read and how much set experience do you have?
If he was so negligent in his producing that he could be on set and be unaware of ongoing safety concerns, that's on him. If he was aware and did nothing, that's on him. He is either negligent to a fatal degree, or he's actually homicidal, and neither is an option that makes me think he should be on sets any more.
I don't work in film production, but I did some reading on it. Blaming a producer of all things rather than the person directly responsible for firearm safety strikes me as needlessly specific, like it's only because he just happens to also be the guy who pulled the trigger. Do you know he was unaware? Do you know he did nothing? Then you have no grounds to say "fuck him".
This all feels needlessly hostile to me.
Baldwin could have thrown his weight around on this one and chose not to
"he shouldn't lose his career." he also doesn't need to keep his career of playing pretend on camera and doing publicity events on talk shows and everything else. i know theater kids think otherwise, but they actually won't die from lack of attention.
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
* well he's rich, so.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
It's only hostile if you're Alec Baldwin, he's the dude I'm mad at
I'm mad at him because he works in my industry, he works with the sort of people who are my peers and colleagues and friends. There are a whole lot of mechanisms that should've been in place to prevent exactly this, and none of them were there, and that is a direct result of several people fucking up their jobs, including the producers. I hope none of the people who fucked up work in my industry any more, not just him. But absolutely fuck him.
he claims he didn't fire it, that it went off when he pulled it from the holster
FBI says "we doubt that"
mods i am horrifically targeted here
Excuse me mods but by saying that he is the one being targeted here Magic Pink is also targeting me
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
please grind him into attention flavoured slurry for my continued existence
They were using double single* action revolvers to my understanding, they don't just "go off", unless the hammer was already pulled back (which significantly reduces the distance the trigger has to be pulled, still doesn't make it "just go off" at random)
edit: so the difference between double and single action, to clarify is double means you can fire the revolver with the hammer uncocked (the hammer is what goes forward to strike and trigger the bullet in the revolver). for a double, the trigger pull is signifigantly harder and longer when the hammer isn't already cocked first, meaning it's basically impossible to do accidentally. this post was originally written under the impression they were using double action revolvers.
single action means you must physically retract and cock the hammer yourself first for the revolver to be capable of firing. if they were walking around with the revolvers already cocked, god help them what the fuck idiots all.
I believe he phrased it as, "Why would I ask anyone to touch a gun that I'm afraid to do that with?"
Was it showy and a bit melodramatic? Oh, probably. But goddamn did it create an ironclad culture of "Don't fuck with the fucking guns"
Exactly this.
I appreciate the sentiment but holy shit that is not gun safety, that's gun stupidity if they weren't also checking that the chamber was empty, the magazine (if present) was empty and then dry firing it. I assume they were, but...
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
They were, I elided in the spirit of brevity
My hat's off to them then.
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
Okay we can blacklist the armorer and all the producers, I'm fine with that.
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I keep thinking back on how great this movie was.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.