Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
+7
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
0
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
It seems gross to stand up for Alec’s right to definitely stay in the industry immediately after his public reaction to a coworker’s death at his literal hands (when he also financially contributed to the reason the accident was allowed to occur) was to make it about him and how he’s lost roles because of it, imo
At least I haven’t seen anyone yet call it touching of him to post an Insta photo of the victim on the anniversary day, that would have been pretty far past the line of withholding my “what the fuck”
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
And I don't think that makes him personally responsible, especially being an executive producer, unless he was personally involved in selecting staff involved with the weaponry and safety of the set, which I highly doubt.
0
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
Hey, just to touch on this because it feels like the point you’re most argumentative about. As Pooro said, he wasn’t JUST a producer. This wasn’t a vanity title. He was an executive producer, writer, and lead actor. He had heavy creative control and this was a passion project for him. He was on set daily and had more power to influence the project both creatively and behind the scenes (hiring, firing, etc) than basically anyone else there! He absolutely bears some responsibility for allowing such a negligent environment to foster on something that he has damn near ultimate control over.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
And I don't think that makes him personally responsible, especially being an executive producer, unless he was personally involved in selecting staff involved with the weaponry and safety of the set, which I highly doubt.
cool and you've been told multiple times why you're wrong
+5
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
And I don't think that makes him personally responsible, especially being an executive producer, unless he was personally involved in selecting staff involved with the weaponry and safety of the set, which I highly doubt.
cool and you've been told multiple times why you're wrong
Well, agree to disagree. Unless you know for a fact that he did that, you're no more right than I am.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
I know what his job title is. I know what responsibilities it is supposed to entail. I have been on unsafe sets, I know who has the power to prevent them and to fix them. I do not find ignorance to be a suitable defense when one has sought out a job title that assumes additional risk and responsibility in exchange for a great deal more pay.
I owe no grace or forebearance to a man going on the media circuit to bemoan his lack of work after getting someone fucking killed. What the hell kind of remorse or atonement is "Ah, woe is me, I can no longer play pretend for millions of dollars, I am the real victim here"
Pooro already went over this, but regardless of what his day-to-day responsibilities are as an executive producer (yeah maybe he just shows up on set to act but that's not the point), if he's got the pull to get EP credits then he can make literally anything happen on set that he wants. If he was concerned about gun safety, then it is well within his sphere of influence to overhaul it. He did not do that. He did the opposite.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Are you secretly a Baldwin currently planning a cost-cutting movie production in New Mexico and trying to get ahead of any potential drama?
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
And I don't think that makes him personally responsible, especially being an executive producer, unless he was personally involved in selecting staff involved with the weaponry and safety of the set, which I highly doubt.
cool and you've been told multiple times why you're wrong
Well, agree to disagree. Unless you know for a fact that he did that, you're no more right than I am.
We know this for a fact, because we have people in the industry who know that job title and what it entails from actually working with them, and they’ve been telling you their experiences with them
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
The only person bearing responsibility should be the person in charge of set safety and/or the armorer, not the person who was holding a firearm that he believed to be safe.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Are you secretly a Baldwin currently planning a cost-cutting movie production in Mexico and trying to get ahead of any potential drama?
No, it just doesn't sit well with me to see people ganging up on someone who accidentally killed someone with sentiments like "fuck him".
cj iwakura on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If someone on the team I run screws up and opens my institution up to liability, I am going to get held at least partially responsible, because I am the boss and it is ultimately my responsibility to oversee everything my team does.
I'm not sure why Baldwin would have less culpability. He's the boss. The responsibility stops with him.
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
The Crow incident is a different but similar scenario but there was also plenty of negligence involved there before the incident occurred and during
Even if what Baldwin says is true about the scenario (I am 100% skeptical that it could have happened the way he describes, unless they deliberately altered the gun to make it be able to fire without pulling the trigger somehow, in which case even more blame goes to him as the person ultimately in charge of the set), why. in. the. fucking. world. did he pull the gun out and point it at someone when they weren't even filming. It's not a toy! It's a real fucking gun!
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
The only person bearing responsibility should be the person in charge of set safety and/or the armorer, not the person who was holding a firearm that he believed to be safe.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Are you secretly a Baldwin currently planning a cost-cutting movie production in Mexico and trying to get ahead of any potential drama?
No, it just doesn't sit well with me to see people ganging up on someone who accidentally killed someone with sentiments like "fuck him".
he "believed"? unless he looked in the chamber he didn't know and he shouldn't have pointed it at anyone even if it was empty
he didn't want to go to the olive garden and meet my cousins
+2
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Again, the issue is not that Alec Baldwin was holding the gun, the issue is that Alec Baldwin was the set manager and the managers always bear at least partial responsibility for accidents caused by negligence on their watch. This would be just as true if he were not holding the gun, also.
This feels like a very simple and basic concept of what "being in charge" means, I'm not sure how there's so much confusion over what's ultimately management 101 shit.
Yeah that's kind of the first rule of gun safety. If someone hands you a gun and tells you it's not loaded, it's fucking loaded until you confirm it for yourself by checking the magazine and chamber.
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
he wasn't the person that was supposed to hold the weapon tho, was he? The report I read didn't specifiy I don't think
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
he wasn't the person that was supposed to hold the weapon tho, was he? The report I read didn't specifiy I don't think
It was specifically a scene where the character that Alec Baldwin was playing aims the gun at a subject behind the camera and shoots. They were rehearsing in order to identify the position that they wanted the camera to be in for the scene to get the shot they wanted.
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
he wasn't the person that was supposed to hold the weapon tho, was he? The report I read didn't specifiy I don't think
It was specifically a scene where the character that Alec Baldwin was playing aims the gun at a subject behind the camera and shoots. They were rehearsing in order to identify the position that they wanted the camera to be in for the scene to get the shot they wanted.
I've gotten so caught up in re-litigating "Should a person with power and authority get to retain either when there's a death on their watch" discourse that I completely forgot to interrogate why it's bad if dorks on a videogame webcomic forum "gang up" on a millionaire who sucks for a bunch of additional reasons
Like who on earth is harmed if I say any actor sucks shit and can kick rocks? I hate all sorts of actors, and for much less reason! I'm a dork! My opinions are stupid! Who cares!
Poorochondriac on
+24
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
The only person bearing responsibility should be the person in charge of set safety and/or the armorer, not the person who was holding a firearm that he believed to be safe.
Like if he was an EP-in-title-only who had a production shingle and this was one of a hundred movies on the slate, if he was in LA while the movie was shooting, that'd be one thing
He was physically on set, and had the authority to fire literally anyone else who was there. You don't get to have more power than anyone else on set and be a completely hapless, helpless bystander. Those are not compatible things.
Does that make him directly responsible? Does that give you any direct knowledge of what happened or what he did or didn't know?
if the incident happened with someone else pulling the trigger, alec baldwin would still hold responsibility for it because production of the movie was one of his responsibilities, same for every other producer
I mean the whole justification for paying producers more than other people in crew is that they're assuming the risk if anything goes wrong. Their pay is fifty fuckin' times higher than the PAs, and they sure as shit aren't doing fifty times the labor. The whole excuse they give is that they assume responsibility and carry risk! That's what they say!!!
Augh!!
It's not like that's the first time anything like this has happened, did the people involved in The Crow's accidental shooting wind up blacklisted or never working in the industry again? Somehow I doubt it.
They should've been!!!
"Justice wasn't properly applied in the past, it shouldn't be applied in the present" is like the worst argument on the fuckin' planet, my goodness
The bottom line is that it feels unfair and downright singling out to say Baldwin in particular deserves to be blacklisted when it was a massive production with a lot of hands involved, and you don't know what level of responsibility or knowledge he had of anything that went down. "He was a producer!!" doesn't mean jack.
Personally, I think he's doing the decent thing by finishing the film so the cinematographer's work can still be seen and appreciated.
I have already said that every single person who contributed to or shared a duty to prevent a fatal accident showed negligence worthy of being removed from this industry. I sincerely hope they are all blacklisted and are never again given opportunities to put people's lives at risk through their negligence.
It would be fucking weird if I gave Alec Baldwin a pass or treated him with a different standard just because Jack Donaghy was funny.
The only thing that anyone besides the investigators knows for sure is that he pulled the trigger. That's not enough to assume he was personally negligent. The only logical grounds I've seen was that he was kind of being a jerk about it, which is fair.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Are you secretly a Baldwin currently planning a cost-cutting movie production in Mexico and trying to get ahead of any potential drama?
No, it just doesn't sit well with me to see people ganging up on someone who accidentally killed someone with sentiments like "fuck him".
Hey cj, can you explain what you think the other side of this argument is pushing for? Like, what do you believe the sentiment of "fuck him" amounts to?
I've gotten so caught up in re-litigating "Should a person with power and authority get to retain either when there's a death on their watch" discourse that I completely forgot to interrogate why it's bad if dorks on a videogame webcomic forum "gang up" on a millionaire who sucks for a bunch of additional reasons
Like who on earth is harmed if I say any actor sucks shit and can kick rocks? I hate all sorts of actors, and for much less reason! My opinions are stupid! Who cares!
let me tell y'all about another man who a lot of people thought "sucked" and had weird "opinions"
+15
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I've gotten so caught up in re-litigating "Should a person with power and authority get to retain either when there's a death on their watch" discourse that I completely forgot to interrogate why it's bad if dorks on a videogame webcomic forum "gang up" on a millionaire who sucks for a bunch of additional reasons
Like who on earth is harmed if I say any actor sucks shit and can kick rocks? I hate all sorts of actors, and for much less reason! My opinions are stupid! Who cares!
Wait’ll they hear that my wife hates Kevin Bacon with the fury of a thousand suns because, and I quote, “his face bothers me”
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
i'm really trying to wrap my head around alec baldwin not being responsible when he was holding the gun
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
he wasn't the person that was supposed to hold the weapon tho, was he? The report I read didn't specifiy I don't think
It was specifically a scene where the character that Alec Baldwin was playing aims the gun at a subject behind the camera and shoots. They were rehearsing in order to identify the position that they wanted the camera to be in for the scene to get the shot they wanted.
i feel like that makes the safety failures worse - you don't even need the real prop gun for that! Use finger guns and make pew pew noises! i guess maybe if you want to see how lighting affects it, but shouldn't you have a replica non-functioning version to figure that out before the real shot?
Posts
there is no point in discussing things with you if you're going to ignore anything presented to you that opposes your already established opinion. you are willfully obtuse. go back to believing kevin smith revived john goodman's career or whatever
The only thing presented to me was that he was a producer. You don't need to make it personal.
i, along with pooro and others, have also responded to your "was baldwin responsible?" posts with "yes, it was literally part of his responsibilities of being a producer of the film" and you just keep saying "but was he responsible?"
At least I haven’t seen anyone yet call it touching of him to post an Insta photo of the victim on the anniversary day, that would have been pretty far past the line of withholding my “what the fuck”
Steam
And I don't think that makes him personally responsible, especially being an executive producer, unless he was personally involved in selecting staff involved with the weaponry and safety of the set, which I highly doubt.
Hey, just to touch on this because it feels like the point you’re most argumentative about. As Pooro said, he wasn’t JUST a producer. This wasn’t a vanity title. He was an executive producer, writer, and lead actor. He had heavy creative control and this was a passion project for him. He was on set daily and had more power to influence the project both creatively and behind the scenes (hiring, firing, etc) than basically anyone else there! He absolutely bears some responsibility for allowing such a negligent environment to foster on something that he has damn near ultimate control over.
Steam
cool and you've been told multiple times why you're wrong
Well, agree to disagree. Unless you know for a fact that he did that, you're no more right than I am.
I know what his job title is. I know what responsibilities it is supposed to entail. I have been on unsafe sets, I know who has the power to prevent them and to fix them. I do not find ignorance to be a suitable defense when one has sought out a job title that assumes additional risk and responsibility in exchange for a great deal more pay.
I owe no grace or forebearance to a man going on the media circuit to bemoan his lack of work after getting someone fucking killed. What the hell kind of remorse or atonement is "Ah, woe is me, I can no longer play pretend for millions of dollars, I am the real victim here"
very literally i am trying to understand but i mean he was holding the gun that killed the woman
This is such a weird hill to die on. Are you secretly a Baldwin currently planning a cost-cutting movie production in New Mexico and trying to get ahead of any potential drama?
We know this for a fact, because we have people in the industry who know that job title and what it entails from actually working with them, and they’ve been telling you their experiences with them
Steam
The only person bearing responsibility should be the person in charge of set safety and/or the armorer, not the person who was holding a firearm that he believed to be safe.
No, it just doesn't sit well with me to see people ganging up on someone who accidentally killed someone with sentiments like "fuck him".
I'm not sure why Baldwin would have less culpability. He's the boss. The responsibility stops with him.
strictly speaking, it is not the responsibility of the actor who is handed a prop to check to make sure that the prop has been handled responsibly up to that point. there are people whose entire jobs revolve around handling those materials in order to make sure they are safe to use by the actors.
the problem is that alec baldwin, as you go up the chain, is also one of those people
Even if what Baldwin says is true about the scenario (I am 100% skeptical that it could have happened the way he describes, unless they deliberately altered the gun to make it be able to fire without pulling the trigger somehow, in which case even more blame goes to him as the person ultimately in charge of the set), why. in. the. fucking. world. did he pull the gun out and point it at someone when they weren't even filming. It's not a toy! It's a real fucking gun!
he "believed"? unless he looked in the chamber he didn't know and he shouldn't have pointed it at anyone even if it was empty
tusk
yoga hosers
he didn't want to go to the olive garden and meet my cousins
This feels like a very simple and basic concept of what "being in charge" means, I'm not sure how there's so much confusion over what's ultimately management 101 shit.
i'll take his place what does he look like
the olive garden is free right
he wasn't the person that was supposed to hold the weapon tho, was he? The report I read didn't specifiy I don't think
Um, fucking excuse you, he broke up Joey Jeremiah and Caitlin Ryan
It was specifically a scene where the character that Alec Baldwin was playing aims the gun at a subject behind the camera and shoots. They were rehearsing in order to identify the position that they wanted the camera to be in for the scene to get the shot they wanted.
Oh so he made movies he enjoyed? That evil fuck!
If Tusk was the price to pay for Mallrats I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
ah, thank you!
GET FUCKED THEY DESERVED IT!
Like who on earth is harmed if I say any actor sucks shit and can kick rocks? I hate all sorts of actors, and for much less reason! I'm a dork! My opinions are stupid! Who cares!
Hey cj, can you explain what you think the other side of this argument is pushing for? Like, what do you believe the sentiment of "fuck him" amounts to?
let me tell y'all about another man who a lot of people thought "sucked" and had weird "opinions"
Wait’ll they hear that my wife hates Kevin Bacon with the fury of a thousand suns because, and I quote, “his face bothers me”
i feel like that makes the safety failures worse - you don't even need the real prop gun for that! Use finger guns and make pew pew noises! i guess maybe if you want to see how lighting affects it, but shouldn't you have a replica non-functioning version to figure that out before the real shot?