Gamefreak just need to bring some of Monolith over to help with world building and the experience they have in open worlds and making the most of the hardware.
This is a really good point because those developers over at Monolith Soft make some ridiculous magic out of their engines on the Switch.
They've been pulling off beautiful looking stuff for Nintendo since at least the Gamecube.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
It's funny, I was actually thinking of Monolith earlier when thinking about people who are great at optimizing their games. They honestly may be one of the best developers on Switch in terms of achieving amazing graphical and performance results from their games, to the point Nintendo's got them helping with Zelda and shit too.
My son thought he had broken Pokemon twice last night due to weird ass camera issues (clipping when you're inside a building...returned from the backpack and it seemed like the screen was broken but it was just the camera) and one time it seemed like his character was just stuck for an unknown reason. This is his first Pokemon game and that wasn't a good impression. It needs work.
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Honestly, I've played games for far too long to let a little jank bother me. That said, while I categorically do not want higher graphical fidelity in Pokemon (especially models-wise, given that any slight improvement in models will cause an exponential amount of resources dedicated to it
I mean, Pokémon is one of the biggest media franchises in history. If anyone could afford the cost of updating all those models, it's them.
Eh. There's a point where the return for effort would be just not worth it, and I suspect Pokemon accelerated way past that point years ago.
If I'm going to make wishes I'd much rather they dedicated a tenth of the resources it would take to get a minor model improvement to make the engine actually run smoothly.
My thing with jank in games is that when you have a game that you're doing very repetitive tasks for 50+ hours.... if the same repetitive tasks have jank over, and over, and over, and over..... yeah that's going to take away from the experience.
But honestly, this is as much of a slight on the Switch as anything else. Well optimized games still exist, but it really feels like most of the more ambitious games releasing this year, especially the latter half of the year, really need/needed more powerful hardware.
My daughter liked AC and was able to read a lot of the text reasonably well. She was a bit frustrated with how slow the intro is, but it is what it is I guess.
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Gamefreak just need to bring some of Monolith over to help with world building and the experience they have in open worlds and making the most of the hardware.
Sounds like we have the box legendaries ready to go. Pokeomon Agnes and Pokemon Kevis when? (I will also accept Pokemon Bionis/Mechonis or Pyra/Mythra)
Rogue Legacy 2 seems to scratch my Castlevania and Rogue Lite itch.
Its so chock full of good ideas where every run helps you gain gold to unlock more stuff, different play styles, permanent upgrades and heirs. Lots of heirs.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
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Honestly, I've played games for far too long to let a little jank bother me. That said, while I categorically do not want higher graphical fidelity in Pokemon (especially models-wise, given that any slight improvement in models will cause an exponential amount of resources dedicated to it
I mean, Pokémon is one of the biggest media franchises in history. If anyone could afford the cost of updating all those models, it's them.
Eh. There's a point where the return for effort would be just not worth it, and I suspect Pokemon accelerated way past that point years ago.
If I'm going to make wishes I'd much rather they dedicated a tenth of the resources it would take to get a minor model improvement to make the engine actually run smoothly.
It's kinda crazy that there are so many games from companies that move far fewer units and generate far less revenue compared Pokémon, and they put out games that look good and run well, but this is somehow far too much to expect from Game Freak and TPC. Like, that should be the bare minimum, but Pokémon gets a pass and the fans are like "That's just too much to ask. Just be happy it even runs at all."
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
My wife doesn't give a shit about performance problems and bugs usually if she's having fun, but even she's pretty pissed this time. Maybe this is the one that finally forces them to get their shit together.
A lot of the performance jank seems to be from a memory leak problem, since saving, closing, and relaunching the game fixes frame rate issues. Hopefully that's something that can be patched relatively quickly, but I won't place any bets on it.
That being said, yeah, the jankiness is certainly there but my resistance to jank has me enjoying the game even with it
I'm almost curious what the working conditions are at Game Freak, and their "relationship" with Nintendo. Like, it's been shown so many times that Nintendo is not afraid to pull back a game if it's not up to their standards. Not to mention all the developers who "break free from Nintendo's controlling fist" only for their very next game to be pure jank, showing that Nintendo's fist was literally the only thing actually keeping them in line. So... what the deuce is going on with Game Freak? I know they're technically third party, or at least free enough to make games for anyone they want. And I know they have a lot of control over the Pokemon IP. I'm starting to wonder if they have some kind of special pull or something. Or some reason why Nintendo isn't being... well "Nintendo" with them.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I'm almost curious what the working conditions are at Game Freak, and their "relationship" with Nintendo. Like, it's been shown so many times that Nintendo is not afraid to pull back a game if it's not up to their standards. Not to mention all the developers who "break free from Nintendo's controlling fist" only for their very next game to be pure jank, showing that Nintendo's fist was literally the only thing actually keeping them in line. So... what the deuce is going on with Game Freak? I know they're technically third party, or at least free enough to make games for anyone they want. And I know they have a lot of control over the Pokemon IP. I'm starting to wonder if they have some kind of special pull or something. Or some reason why Nintendo isn't being... well "Nintendo" with them.
Rather than being under Nintendo's boot, they are under "The Pokemon Company" 's boot instead. TPC burns and churns lower quality software because it's part of a mix of different multimedia projects, and importantly, their fans have shown to have almost no taste whatsoever in terms of... they'll buy the mainline games no matter what. Perhaps certain spinoffs won't make a big splash, but literally every main title sells gangbusters, no matter what shortcuts are used or what have you. So you can't even blame TPC, why would they spend more money when you have people responding to horror shows like this one with "this is probably the best 3D title yet"?
the business model of the pokemon franchise is massive synchronized media blitzes, the big new games coming out ties in to a new anime season, new merch hitting shelves, etc. that all has a great deal of lead time and can't be delayed if the game isn't ready, and they always choose to underbudget time for the game dev rather than overbudgeting.
I really wonder what the hell happened. I mean, it's a huge game for Christmas, but Nintendo has never been shy about delaying a game to fix it even if it leaves a hole. And the Pokemon Company doesn't answer to stockholders. Maybe it's due to having to coordinate with all the merchandising and such? Maybe they didn't realize a delay would be needed until fairly recently?
I really wonder what the hell happened. I mean, it's a huge game for Christmas, but Nintendo has never been shy about delaying a game to fix it even if it leaves a hole. And the Pokemon Company doesn't answer to stockholders. Maybe it's due to having to coordinate with all the merchandising and such? Maybe they didn't realize a delay would be needed until fairly recently?
You're talking like this isn't a known quantity.
Mainline pokemon can NEVER be delayed when its exactly synchronized to the card game and TV shows. Its been a drag on game quality for a long time. (though usually not this bad)
If they spend 2-3 years on a mainline game, its possible this one got started late due to covid disruptions, which were especially crippling in Japan with its lack of WFH structure. Nintendo's been delaying a lot of their stuff, heck the last two years have been pretty release-barren in the industry in general, but that's not an option for TPC.
I really wonder what the hell happened. I mean, it's a huge game for Christmas, but Nintendo has never been shy about delaying a game to fix it even if it leaves a hole. And the Pokemon Company doesn't answer to stockholders. Maybe it's due to having to coordinate with all the merchandising and such? Maybe they didn't realize a delay would be needed until fairly recently?
There isn’t much of a mystery; they didn’t have enough time to polish and fix the game up. We’ve gone from 2d sprite games to 3d “open world” games with the same dev time.
They need to do this COD style with 3 developers each working on a staggered 3 year cycle.
I mean they won't, because people keep buying it in its current state.
I thought they were doing something like this? That it's the reason why one game will have a really banging mechanic that never shows up again, because a completely different group did the next game.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I'm shocked the game got through NoA's testing. It's a shitty work environment, but I'll be damned if we didn't QA the shit out of the games we tested. We squashed a metric ton of bugs in our 3-4 month testing period.
There has to be some other outside pressures at play here because there's no way the testers weren't finding all these bugs and reporting them. My guess is that they got the standard, "NoJ is aware of the issue" response. That was code for "we know and we're not gonna fix it".
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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There is no doubt in my mind the bug database for that game is full of WNF (Will Not Fix) bugs.
Hopefully they're being worked on, or will be after the holidays and the game will get patched. But you can't patch your way up to BotW or Xenoblade quality.
I'm under no illusions that releasing a game that looks as clearly broken as violet/scarlet is will sink The Pokemon Company/Pokemon as a brand. That won't happen. And this won't affect the sales of this game much, since the vast majority of casual sales are just going to buy the next Pokemon game.
But when you start to chip away at reputation and standing of a brand, that can have longer term consequences. It won't be tomorrow, but you risk having a group of gamers go "well the last game was broken, I may not buy the next game."
And i know that The Pokemon Company is not Nintendo, but they are so closely tied together that it's hard to separate, and it makes it all look bad for everyone. The game clearly was not done and ready, and should not have been released. For a company that generally doesn't release games until they're well past baked, it's a bad look for Nintendo, even if Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game.
There is an ongoing cycle for lots of series where it’s known what constrains the team are under, what we can expect from them at best, but people get hyped up anyway.
They can safely keep flip flopping from decent to awful for a few decades yet. In recent memory: Let’s Go X, then those chibi remakes, Arceus, now the new ones… so maybe the next one will be an average Wii game, and folks will forgive them again.
I'm under no illusions that releasing a game that looks as clearly broken as violet/scarlet is will sink The Pokemon Company/Pokemon as a brand. That won't happen. And this won't affect the sales of this game much, since the vast majority of casual sales are just going to buy the next Pokemon game.
But when you start to chip away at reputation and standing of a brand, that can have longer term consequences. It won't be tomorrow, but you risk having a group of gamers go "well the last game was broken, I may not buy the next game."
And i know that The Pokemon Company is not Nintendo, but they are so closely tied together that it's hard to separate, and it makes it all look bad for everyone. The game clearly was not done and ready, and should not have been released. For a company that generally doesn't release games until they're well past baked, it's a bad look for Nintendo, even if Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game.
I was JUST reading about this phenomenon in a business sense and I cannot remember what it's called. It had a specific name like some kind of precipice or inflection point (not those, it was an actual business term).
The idea is that you're trucking along just fine, selling your products, everything is going well, and then one day you bottom out like a rock. No one buys from you anymore, and you're left thinking "how could this have happened? What happened all of a sudden?"
But it wasn't all of a sudden. It was death by a thousand cuts all along the way, a slow gradual change, until conditions were right and nobody felt like putting up with your bullshit anymore.
This is why I'm wondering if The Pokemon Company has something on Nintendo or whatnot. If there's some thinly veiled threat of "You don't want to push us too hard, or else we'll take this Pokemon franchise to Microsoft". Or maybe the contract is so entwined that the IP literally cannot exist without TPC, and any attempt to remove or fire them kills the franchise stone dead.
Nintendo has no problem delaying the most hotly anticipated sequel of the decade. They will completely throw out development of a game and start over from scratch. But the Pokemon engine is just so large and important that it will. not. stop. under any circumstance?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
this is the kind of thing that happens all the time, like with GM and Toyota. GM was THE car company and toyota just started making these little economy cars and suddenly one day, toyota had overtaken GM. There are several other games that are starting to do the Pokemon model pretty well and in another few years its likely one of them will beat pokemon if this kind of stuff keeps up.
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They've been pulling off beautiful looking stuff for Nintendo since at least the Gamecube.
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Eh. There's a point where the return for effort would be just not worth it, and I suspect Pokemon accelerated way past that point years ago.
If I'm going to make wishes I'd much rather they dedicated a tenth of the resources it would take to get a minor model improvement to make the engine actually run smoothly.
But honestly, this is as much of a slight on the Switch as anything else. Well optimized games still exist, but it really feels like most of the more ambitious games releasing this year, especially the latter half of the year, really need/needed more powerful hardware.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Not gonna lie, I'd pay double for that.
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Sounds like we have the box legendaries ready to go. Pokeomon Agnes and Pokemon Kevis when? (I will also accept Pokemon Bionis/Mechonis or Pyra/Mythra)
Its so chock full of good ideas where every run helps you gain gold to unlock more stuff, different play styles, permanent upgrades and heirs. Lots of heirs.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
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It's kinda crazy that there are so many games from companies that move far fewer units and generate far less revenue compared Pokémon, and they put out games that look good and run well, but this is somehow far too much to expect from Game Freak and TPC. Like, that should be the bare minimum, but Pokémon gets a pass and the fans are like "That's just too much to ask. Just be happy it even runs at all."
I won't get my hopes up though.
That being said, yeah, the jankiness is certainly there but my resistance to jank has me enjoying the game even with it
Rather than being under Nintendo's boot, they are under "The Pokemon Company" 's boot instead. TPC burns and churns lower quality software because it's part of a mix of different multimedia projects, and importantly, their fans have shown to have almost no taste whatsoever in terms of... they'll buy the mainline games no matter what. Perhaps certain spinoffs won't make a big splash, but literally every main title sells gangbusters, no matter what shortcuts are used or what have you. So you can't even blame TPC, why would they spend more money when you have people responding to horror shows like this one with "this is probably the best 3D title yet"?
You're talking like this isn't a known quantity.
Mainline pokemon can NEVER be delayed when its exactly synchronized to the card game and TV shows. Its been a drag on game quality for a long time. (though usually not this bad)
If they spend 2-3 years on a mainline game, its possible this one got started late due to covid disruptions, which were especially crippling in Japan with its lack of WFH structure. Nintendo's been delaying a lot of their stuff, heck the last two years have been pretty release-barren in the industry in general, but that's not an option for TPC.
There isn’t much of a mystery; they didn’t have enough time to polish and fix the game up. We’ve gone from 2d sprite games to 3d “open world” games with the same dev time.
I mean they won't, because people keep buying it in its current state.
I thought they were doing something like this? That it's the reason why one game will have a really banging mechanic that never shows up again, because a completely different group did the next game.
There has to be some other outside pressures at play here because there's no way the testers weren't finding all these bugs and reporting them. My guess is that they got the standard, "NoJ is aware of the issue" response. That was code for "we know and we're not gonna fix it".
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Hopefully they're being worked on, or will be after the holidays and the game will get patched. But you can't patch your way up to BotW or Xenoblade quality.
But when you start to chip away at reputation and standing of a brand, that can have longer term consequences. It won't be tomorrow, but you risk having a group of gamers go "well the last game was broken, I may not buy the next game."
And i know that The Pokemon Company is not Nintendo, but they are so closely tied together that it's hard to separate, and it makes it all look bad for everyone. The game clearly was not done and ready, and should not have been released. For a company that generally doesn't release games until they're well past baked, it's a bad look for Nintendo, even if Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game.
There is an ongoing cycle for lots of series where it’s known what constrains the team are under, what we can expect from them at best, but people get hyped up anyway.
They can safely keep flip flopping from decent to awful for a few decades yet. In recent memory: Let’s Go X, then those chibi remakes, Arceus, now the new ones… so maybe the next one will be an average Wii game, and folks will forgive them again.
I was JUST reading about this phenomenon in a business sense and I cannot remember what it's called. It had a specific name like some kind of precipice or inflection point (not those, it was an actual business term).
The idea is that you're trucking along just fine, selling your products, everything is going well, and then one day you bottom out like a rock. No one buys from you anymore, and you're left thinking "how could this have happened? What happened all of a sudden?"
But it wasn't all of a sudden. It was death by a thousand cuts all along the way, a slow gradual change, until conditions were right and nobody felt like putting up with your bullshit anymore.
Wish I remembered what that was...
Nintendo has no problem delaying the most hotly anticipated sequel of the decade. They will completely throw out development of a game and start over from scratch. But the Pokemon engine is just so large and important that it will. not. stop. under any circumstance?
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