Speaking of Pillars of Eternity, I’m so glad I’ve listened this podcast episode that features Josh Sawyer talking about it, among many others talking about RPGs. PoE is simultaneously one of my favorite games (ever, not limited to Obsidian) and one of the games I find immensely frustrating, so it was nice to feel validated in some way because the constraints Josh talks about are what lead to the elements that frustrated me as I played it.
To be more direct on Redfall, it feels exactly like Halo Infinite or any number of Microsoft first party stuff; it's a game that, in a few years when they finish it (if they finish it *cries in crackdown 3*) maybe, might be kinda good.
Like Grounded has pretty good word of mouth around here but the game preview was very rough. Same with Sea of Thieves. Those games launched in barebones territory and are now by all accounts pretty good.
Time will tell for Redfall but it's definitely been a weird sell for me from the start and I like Co-op, open world stuff
In fairness, "game preview" should be expected to be rough as hell. It's a preview, basically a fancy beta/slice, and I'm always impressed when they even run consistently. I think Grounded officially launched what, a month or so ago? I don't recall if SoT was a preview as well, but I think that one also suffered from "we made a game about playing pretend with your buddies and sailing around" and everyone assumed that came with like, quests and plot and shit. I don't think they ever even intended to, originally; it was "sail around and do stuff!" but well, here we are. (And I hear it's good if you're into that kind of thing.)
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I just want Microsoft to have an identity again. You can justly dab on it but the Xbox/360 gamer bro brand made it feel like I knew what I was getting compared to the PS3 (cell processor super system!) and Wii (new control experience)
I mean, I'm pretty heavily pro-MS in ye olde Console Wars, but this is stepping on a rake. Even if you think the bones of the game are solid (which I don't but still), this thing wasn't ready for AAA prime-time coming out party as First Party status.
Grounded was a Game preview. Halo was..... Halo. This thing was seemingly teed up as the Next Big Thing and it just isn't.
Maybe it should have had another year, or come put in preview, or just... scrapped some stuff. But this isn't in the tier of first party that I think MS is spending money for.
It reminds me of Anthem, with worse production values. Just a lack of understanding of the sphere it was in.
(I generally agree with Skill Up in his reviews, and tend to enjoy his long-form Destiny takes, and didn't find this review particularly clickbaity beyond "doing a review of a notable fuckup that had high expectations.")
+2
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Is Game Preview the Xbox equivalent of early access?
Also honky if you're looking for a new redfall character I'd recommend Jacob as an alternative to Davinder. He doesn't have the suave british sophistication, but he does have an ultimate that literally lets you delete enemies and a cool raven.
I went with Dav haha. Jacob looked like a sniper and that's not my play style.
I don't think Microsoft has used it at all much, except for Grounded.
It's basically there so people who are doing Early Access on PC don't have to wait to 1.0 to get their game onto a console. Sony still does not have an equivalent I don't think. (That may have changed recently, I forget.)
People act like this is the nail in the coffin for Microsoft, but they just don't realize how big Microsoft is. They can take the hit. They are notorious for releasing crappy software.
+2
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
People act like this is the nail in the coffin for Microsoft, but they just don't realize how big Microsoft is. They can take the hit. They are notorious for releasing crappy software.
It's definitely not, but what I do feel is correct is that it piles a massive amount of pressure upon Starfield to deliver later this year.
And honestly, if Redfall was supposed to come out last year and is in *this* state after a delay, I am genuinely wondering what state Starfield was in before its delay last year.
Finally got around to playing Star Wars: Jedi Survivor. But even though I bought the deluxe edition of Star Wars: Jedi Survivor I can't download the deluxe upgrade or preorder stuff? It says I own in my purchase history too. What gives?
Looking at the string of 1 star reviews it seems I'm not alone. Anybody else run into this? I suspect it's a store issue?
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Hmmm I bought the Orcs must die 3 bundle with the two DLC packs, but only one downloaded, and the other one “tipping the scales” isn’t able to be downloaded. A bit weird, I assume that means I have to access them in game? (Even tho in game it says “purchase to play” for both the dlcs, what rhe hell
Hmmm I bought the Orcs must die 3 bundle with the two DLC packs, but only one downloaded, and the other one “tipping the scales” isn’t able to be downloaded. A bit weird, I assume that means I have to access them in game? (Even tho in game it says “purchase to play” for both the dlcs, what rhe hell
Okay, so there's probably something wrong with the purchases right now. But some of these Survivor reviews are from 4/30/23. Guess we'll have to see.
Did you buy your bundle with credit/cash or use Microsoft account points?
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Hmmm I bought the Orcs must die 3 bundle with the two DLC packs, but only one downloaded, and the other one “tipping the scales” isn’t able to be downloaded. A bit weird, I assume that means I have to access them in game? (Even tho in game it says “purchase to play” for both the dlcs, what rhe hell
Okay, so there's probably something wrong with the purchases right now. But some of these Survivor reviews are from 4/30/23. Guess we'll have to see.
Did you buy your bundle with credit/cash or use Microsoft account points?
Used PayPal backed by my credit card. The purchase was clearly for the bundle with two dlcs. Only one downloaded or is available to download, the “cold as eyes” dlc, the “tipping rhe scales” dlc is nowhere to be found, and that is clearly listed as part of the bundle and I can only buy it individually as a gift, so I assume it is purchased. Also in game neither are showing up as purchased.
Maybe I have to play the campaign before the dlcs unlock or something? I dunno, very concerning
Essentially the bundle is saying I own it, and in the bundle page the tipping the scales dlc is there, and I can no longer buy the tipping the scales dlc as anything other than a gift, so I assume that means I own it? Actually yeah it does it says “owned” on the page
Very confusing and concerning, maybe it just doesn’t have a seperate download?
Ok somethings very wrong with the Xbox store, I reinstalled it and now neither of the dlcs are appearing, so I’m guessing it’s something funky on Microsoft’s end
End of the day Microsoft is a big rich company and most of those suck, Sony is a lot smaller so I think it's easier to root for them, and I mean the nostalgia around the brand because of the insane library of the PS1/2 is super strong. Microsoft has Halo... And have fumbled that for a decade now.
It's funny you mention this, because I've been thinking lately how the vast bulk of my PlayStation nostalgia is centered around the PS1, PSP, and I guess the PS2.
And with PS4/PS5, they've divorced themselves so much from those days that it's difficult to form any sort of attachment via nostalgia as a result, bar the odd thing like Astro's Playroom.
I like what Xbox and its ecosystem brings to the table more as a whole. If a game is available on both, I'd rather play on Xbox. The first-party stuff is like gravy there, as far as I'm concerned.
Incidentally, even if they may be smaller as a company, Sony is still like the biggest player in the games biz, and they tend to act like it, so it's harder for me to root for them.
Of course, end of the day, I want Xbox and PlayStation to be about even, without a clear advantage over one-another, so they always have to be careful. That's my preferred scenario.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Hmmm I bought the Orcs must die 3 bundle with the two DLC packs, but only one downloaded, and the other one “tipping the scales” isn’t able to be downloaded. A bit weird, I assume that means I have to access them in game? (Even tho in game it says “purchase to play” for both the dlcs, what rhe hell
Okay, so there's probably something wrong with the purchases right now. But some of these Survivor reviews are from 4/30/23. Guess we'll have to see.
Did you buy your bundle with credit/cash or use Microsoft account points?
Used PayPal backed by my credit card. The purchase was clearly for the bundle with two dlcs. Only one downloaded or is available to download, the “cold as eyes” dlc, the “tipping rhe scales” dlc is nowhere to be found, and that is clearly listed as part of the bundle and I can only buy it individually as a gift, so I assume it is purchased. Also in game neither are showing up as purchased.
Maybe I have to play the campaign before the dlcs unlock or something? I dunno, very concerning
Essentially the bundle is saying I own it, and in the bundle page the tipping the scales dlc is there, and I can no longer buy the tipping the scales dlc as anything other than a gift, so I assume that means I own it? Actually yeah it does it says “owned” on the page
Very confusing and concerning, maybe it just doesn’t have a seperate download?
Ok somethings very wrong with the Xbox store, I reinstalled it and now neither of the dlcs are appearing, so I’m guessing it’s something funky on Microsoft’s end
For me when I pull up my order history in the Microsoft store page, it shows that I purchased the bundle completely.
If I look up the individual items on the console the "Deluxe Upgrade" is ticked off as owned, and I also only can buy it as a gift. But there is no option to download. Can't really uninstall the app on the Xbox but I'll have to try it again later and maybe it will show for me. Not really keen on downloading the game again as it's like 100+ gb. So... hopefully I won't have to do that.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I wouldn’t uninstall anyway since I tried it and it didn’t fix anything, but did confirm that something was broken because a dlc that previously downloaded was now not downloadable at all, so something is definitely funky on their end and I’m just going to wait and see
Even more than just that dude, there's a narrative around this release that this is somehow bad for the Xbox brand but to me, this looks worse for Arkane after the middling Deathloop.
DEATHLOOP is not what I would call middling; if REDFALL released at its level of quality, all we'd be hearing about the usual "Why is ARKANE still making games that sale. . ." instead of the gloom and doom surrounding this game, which admittedly is their poorest product.
It's not just one game. It's a pattern of delayed and/or disappointing releases. Crackdown 3 (delayed and disappointing), Halo Infinite (delayed, initially promising, then deeply disappointing), Redfall (delayed and then disappointing), etc. Looking ahead towards the delayed Starfield and wondering if it might be disappointing isn't "doomsaying", it is pattern recognition. I don't think Xbox is doomed because Microsoft as a company is loaded with money. I just want all these studios they bought to put out good, fun games, instead of strange, bad ones. Does anyone else feel differently about that?
This narrative around REDFALL being a "Microsoft game. . ." is absurd. This game came along with the purchase, full stop. Sure you can make an argument that MS could have scrapped the game or, if not to just gut the team, delay and try to fix what I'm sure was internal feedback that is similar to the public feedback we are seeing. Like how much can you really do for a game this far out in development once the ink is dry on the contract. If the Activision/Blizzard deal had gone through miraculously last year and D4 releases to - almost surely - excellent reviews, would this be evidence of MS now having "turned things around?" Of course not. Same with STARFIELD and it goes in the opposite direction.
The games MS has personally initiated development on and the continued lack of top quality titles is all on them and there's enough of them that we don't have to throw other peoples misfires on the heap.
Microsoft's problems are two-fold:
They don't have enough exclusive releases, and when they're unquestionably excellent, they don't count for "reasons." Hifi Rush is just a "small" game, doesn't really count. Forza Horizon 5 is still available on Xbox One! Booo! And Flight Simulator (metacritic score 91 on PC, 90 on Xbox, practically the best rated flight simulator ever released, certainly on console) isn't really a game, it's a...learning tool, or something.
The first one is a self-evidently obvious (like "Android is more popular than iPhone"; "Windows is overwhelmingly wider used than MacOS"), and one that even Microsoft has discussed at length, it's so self-evident. The second one, they can't really do anything about it.
Those three examples sound like strawmen, but they're literally arguments we've had on this forum and even on past versions of this thread. It's not enough that there aren't enough games, or you don't like the game, they aren't really "steps to fixing the problem." Could Microsoft fix the first issue? They're trying, but even if they did--the Xbox One launched with a strong exclusive lineup, that in of itself isn't enough to guarantee "success", itself a complicated end-goal. There's no way to fix the second issue, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've given up on that.
If Redfall has been received like Hifi Rush, that obviously would've been better, but would've have been the end of their woes? Of course not. Everyone who thinks on the question is aware of that; but most people just want to play a particular game. Instead, it was received like Forspoken (well, 1 point different on Metacritic for consoles anyway), and so the struggle continues. Being unhappy with Redfall (or, as the case is with a few people here, enjoying it) seems a more substantive opinion than demanding Microsoft fix things, whether they're capable of it (delaying a game again?) or not (last I checked, Oxenfree 2 isn't being published by them, so they don't get to decide if it's released or not), right now. Because as much extremely speculative industry speculation as we entertain in this thread (oh boy, do we entertain it) belongs to this thread (and the [Xbox] of the future), don't forget: people were still shouting Dooooooooooomm! during the whole of the Xbox 360's lifetime; and don't even remind me about the original Xbox, the system that was completely stomped by outsold the Gamecube (didn't count).
To take an example, is Game Pass a sustainable marketplace model? Sony certainly think so, in court and practice, but we can ruminate about what it means for any given publisher. However, the "average" user is, quite understandably, a lot more interested in what they can play on it. Let's at least try not to completely drown out the audience that isn't married to the industry insider baseball, even amid the inevitable amount of Doooom! (and perhaps anti-Doooom!) forecasting and existential angst. The Forums banned (?) the [Video Game Industry] thread for a reason, so we have to have a space for that talk (and this is it), but let's at leave some space for everyone else.
Synthesis on
+1
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Even more than just that dude, there's a narrative around this release that this is somehow bad for the Xbox brand but to me, this looks worse for Arkane after the middling Deathloop.
DEATHLOOP is not what I would call middling; if REDFALL released at its level of quality, all we'd be hearing about the usual "Why is ARKANE still making games that sale. . ." instead of the gloom and doom surrounding this game, which admittedly is their poorest product.
It's not just one game. It's a pattern of delayed and/or disappointing releases. Crackdown 3 (delayed and disappointing), Halo Infinite (delayed, initially promising, then deeply disappointing), Redfall (delayed and then disappointing), etc. Looking ahead towards the delayed Starfield and wondering if it might be disappointing isn't "doomsaying", it is pattern recognition. I don't think Xbox is doomed because Microsoft as a company is loaded with money. I just want all these studios they bought to put out good, fun games, instead of strange, bad ones. Does anyone else feel differently about that?
This narrative around REDFALL being a "Microsoft game. . ." is absurd. This game came along with the purchase, full stop. Sure you can make an argument that MS could have scrapped the game or, if not to just gut the team, delay and try to fix what I'm sure was internal feedback that is similar to the public feedback we are seeing. Like how much can you really do for a game this far out in development once the ink is dry on the contract. If the Activision/Blizzard deal had gone through miraculously last year and D4 releases to - almost surely - excellent reviews, would this be evidence of MS now having "turned things around?" Of course not. Same with STARFIELD and it goes in the opposite direction.
The games MS has personally initiated development on and the continued lack of top quality titles is all on them and there's enough of them that we don't have to throw other peoples misfires on the heap.
Microsoft's problems are two-fold:
They don't have enough exclusive releases, and when they're unquestionably excellent, they don't count for "reasons." Hifi Rush is just a "small" game, doesn't really count. Forza Horizon 5 is still available on Xbox One! Booo! And Flight Simulator (metacritic score 91 on PC, 90 on Xbox, practically the best rated flight simulator ever released, certainly on console) isn't really a game, it's a...learning tool, or something.
It mostly comes down to perception. Forza 5 as an example, came out in 2021 and while I own the game, it wasn't by choice as I was forced to get it because it came with my console. I've played it for around 30 minutes. I'll probably not play it further. Is that because it's a bad game? No, it's excellent from what I can tell, but I absolutely can't stand racing games fundamentally with very very few exceptions and I don't like GT for most of the same reasons. I wouldn't buy GT either, but thankfully GT is one game in a bunch of excellent triple AAA titles released on PS5 so I don't need to care or think about it. Microsoft Flight Simulator is in the same bucket for me, it's a game I would love to play but I absolutely don't have the set up to enjoy it the way it should be played and again, came out in 2021.
Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment are among some of my favourite games, which I backed up with my money because I didn't just gamepass them I bought both games directly. BUT, they are games I could have played on my existing laptop without buying a console for them as they are definitely not pushing any envelope in next generation gaming. Grounded is in the same boat, because it's also a truly fabulous game that I didn't need to get a very expensive console to play, as the 150+ hours I have on it on steam proves rather handily. When people talk about exclusives, they are very obviously meaning big major release games with a triple AAA budget like Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Horizon, the upcoming Starfield and that sort of thing. It's a simple fact that Microsoft haven't released a major triple AAA title in that space since 2021 and that's where the main complaint lies.
I'm perfectly happy with my console purchase for reasons that have almost nothing to do with the console itself, but Microsofts brilliant position of making crossplay a thing whenever they can. Because I can play a game on Xbox + my PC, things like Grounded that aren't really pushing limits of next generation hardware - noting it still looks and runs really well on my aging laptop - mean they are viable targets for "If I buy two copies, can I play this with my wife?".
Instead, it was received like Forspoken (well, 1 point different on Metacritic for consoles anyway), and so the struggle continues.
I actually went and looked up Forspoken on steam. To my surprise, compared with Redfalls 31% rating, it's at 60% and the most recent reviews at 73%. So actually it's done probably a lot better and I would point out the review Embargo for Forspoken actually ended several days before its release. They didn't try to hide it until the last minute, which is something I find incredibly disagreeable with regards to Redfall. Noting that steam reviews are not perfect, but I can be at least mostly certain someone leaving a review there has actually played the game in some way by looking at the actual reviews themselves unlike metacritic user reviews - that's just a dumpster fire.
In any event, I think there absolutely were expectations on Redfall and the amount of eyes from journalists, commentators and other places around the internet suggest a lot of eyes are now on Starfield. That game really has to deliver, otherwise again, what does a Xbox Series X offer that a mid range cheaper PC doesn't if the best stuff being released on it easily runs on an average PC like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment? Like at some point with PS5s selling well and the Xbox Series X falling behind, they have to make an argument why people should buy the system and that comes from those big triple AAA titles and always has.
Redfall is immense disappointment for me and has me worried this will get Arkane chopped or something. Hopefully they've seen this and we'll have a back to basics approach. Make a good, immersive single player game and stick to what they've proven to be exceptional at.
To take an example, is Game Pass a sustainable marketplace model? Sony certainly think so, in court and practice, but we can ruminate about what it means for any given publisher.
I think taking anything Sony write in these legal arguments and what's actual reality often don't meet. Like the idea that they're the small underdog that's fighting to stay relevant when they have sold almost 2:1 ratio on consoles by this point, have a large number of high quality studios making exclusive triple AAA games for their platform and so on is just hilarious to me. I don't take their opinion on Game Pass seriously when it's quickly being associated at the moment with "This is not worth full price, but it's game pass worthy". What a brilliant model that's becoming.
It mostly comes down to perception. Forza 5 as an example, came out in 2001 and while I own the game, it wasn't by choice as I was forced to get it because it came with my console. I've played it for around 30 minutes. I'll probably not play it further. Is that because it's a bad game? No, it's excellent from what I can tell, but I absolutely can't stand racing games fundamentally with very very few exceptions and I don't like GT for most of the same reasons. I wouldn't buy GT either, but thankfully GT is one game in a bunch of excellent triple AAA titles released on PS5 so I don't need to care or think about it. Microsoft Flight Simulator is in the same bucket for me, it's a game I would love to play but I absolutely don't have the set up to enjoy it the way it should be played and again, came out in 2001.
I guess SkillUp is a respected reviewer with plenty of clout to his name, but honestly the doomsaying is just hilariously melodramatic.
One game releases that isn't up to standard and suddenly Xbox is some pariah, some kind of leper to which to avoid their products lmao
It's not just one game. It's a pattern of delayed and/or disappointing releases. Crackdown 3 (delayed and disappointing), Halo Infinite (delayed, initially promising, then deeply disappointing), Redfall (delayed and then disappointing), etc. Looking ahead towards the delayed Starfield and wondering if it might be disappointing isn't "doomsaying", it is pattern recognition. I don't think Xbox is doomed because Microsoft as a company is loaded with money. I just want all these studios they bought to put out good, fun games, instead of strange, bad ones. Does anyone else feel differently about that?
This argument would hold more weight if Xbox hadn't published plenty of entirely excellent games in the spaces between those delayed/disappointing releases.
It's okay to say that the good ones aren't of genres or styles that you care for, or even that Xbox does have management issues. It's disingenuous to ignore them or say that they don't count, or suggest that Xbox suddenly can't be trusted to publish good games.
I think Xbox does lack the kind of uncharted/spiderman/last of us/god of war/horizon style of like ultra AAA third person action blockbuster. The closest is gears and that’s still not quite the same, it’s more it’s own thing. Really the output of those studios is what the Xbox needs an equivalent of. And it’s not like they haven’t been trying, but that kind of output really only comes with 20 years of producing blockbusters under a studios belt, and it’s hard to develop that quickly and there really isn’t many studios available to buy that have it ready made
Prohass on
+2
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
It mostly comes down to perception. Forza 5 as an example, came out in 2001 and while I own the game, it wasn't by choice as I was forced to get it because it came with my console. I've played it for around 30 minutes. I'll probably not play it further. Is that because it's a bad game? No, it's excellent from what I can tell, but I absolutely can't stand racing games fundamentally with very very few exceptions and I don't like GT for most of the same reasons. I wouldn't buy GT either, but thankfully GT is one game in a bunch of excellent triple AAA titles released on PS5 so I don't need to care or think about it. Microsoft Flight Simulator is in the same bucket for me, it's a game I would love to play but I absolutely don't have the set up to enjoy it the way it should be played and again, came out in 2001.
I'm assuming these are typos, right?
No I'm just pointing out the time between major releases. I wish I could get into Forza because it looks fabulous and the driving felt good, but I just don't enjoy racing games and don't find them engaging. On the other hand, that's absolutely no indication that it isn't anything other than an excellent game - it's just not in a genre I find easy to enjoy
You know, I didn't even realize what I did until just below.
Edit: My woife and I cannot seem to play Grounded tonight. It simply won't start on the Xbox Series X for her. I assume this is update related and it doesn't seem to be able to recognize there was an update out, but that's hugely disappointing Oh man, the pain at watching a 9 gig update slooooowwllllyy download. I thought it did all this stuff while in rest mode?
Edit2: Now it's claiming there isn't an active Xbox live account and won't let us play together anymore. Oh dear, I mean, what do you think I pay you for gold for Microsoft?
Edit3: Now it's back to redownloading the same update as it did the first time. Looks like it might be straight up broken.
Edit4: Back to saying that my Xbox Live Gold isn't there. This is a wild ride.
Edit5: We're downloading what I think is the same patch again.
I wouldn’t uninstall anyway since I tried it and it didn’t fix anything, but did confirm that something was broken because a dlc that previously downloaded was now not downloadable at all, so something is definitely funky on their end and I’m just going to wait and see
I think my Woife and I have just run into a similar problem with these updates for Grounded and my Xbox Live Gold Subscription. Nothing works to make this update stick and to get Grounded to recognize that yes, I do in fact pay for Xbox Live Gold.
Edit6: Doesn't work at all anymore. Will need to fix this tomorrow. Woife has rage quit for the night and started watching Netflix.
I'm now picturing Forza Horizon 5 launching against Gran Turismo 3 and I think that would have had quite an effect on the XB / PS rivalry. Microsoft Flight Sim vs GTA3 still could have gone either way.
Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
+3
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 4
Is Xbox Live multiplayer down for anyone else? I can't even get Grounded to start anymore.
And now we're back to downloading the same update again!!!!! No it's a different update of 2.6 gb.
This is an emotional rollercoaster for sure.
Edit: Time to do the good ole fashioned install and reinstall game.
Edit2: This is truly disappointing. What a shit show. My PC version of Grounded updated perfectly fine and can be played without a single issue.
Edit3: It is just "updating" by reinstalling the entire game every time I've realized. When I can get in, the game prompts me to get Xbox Live Gold - which I have btw - then crashes.
Utterly fantastic. A+. Well done.
I am going back to playing age of Wonders 4 where my Cat Viking Queen rides around on a unicorn that leaves a rainbow behind it.
I'm now picturing Forza Horizon 5 launching against Gran Turismo 3 and I think that would have had quite an effect on the XB / PS rivalry. Microsoft Flight Sim vs GTA3 still could have gone either way.
I think it’ll be good but only if you already enjoy Bethesda style rpgs. Like I don’t think it’s going to make any converts but as someone who likes their stuff im looking forward to it
+5
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Gonna use my remarkable powers of seeing the future here...
Starfield will be a fantastic game that will have the usual Bethesda warts but also offer the most updated version of the Bethesda RPG experience.
It will review well(with notes of bugs and performance issues) and sell an insane amount.
But there will be a group of people saying its actually garbage because they were looking for a completely different experience then it was ever intending to provide and they refuse to accept that.
Bethesda Game Studio games are always a buggy mess. Even the best ones.
In the past, people have forgiven a lot of the jank and glitchiness, because that can be fixed by mods. But I think after the recent string of under-baked AAA of late, really starting with Cyberpunk a couple years ago, people are just a lot less forgiving today than they were a few years ago.
I think if Starfield comes out in an equal state to how Skyrim launched, or how Fallout 4 / Fallout 76 launched, it's gonna be a catastrophe. I don't think people are going to give them as much goodwill and forgiveness as they have in the past. Just my own theory and speculation. But I think that what was once seen as a quirk or a charming flaw won't be viewed so favorably this time around.
I think if Starfield isn't as perfect and bug-free as humanly possible, it's going to do some serious damage to both Bethesda as a studio, and Microsoft as a platform and publisher.
I'm not trying to be a doomer here. I just think that's the current temperature in the room. People are tired of unfinished AAA releases and I think that Starfield isn't going to receive the same grace that previous buggy-as-hell Bethesda releases have received.
Yeah we're at the point where if an Xbox only game comes out and doesn't get all 100s the general internet will ride the memes until the next game that comes out.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I think the growing groundswell of journalist-pundits claiming stuff like Starfield is going to have to be at minimum a 9/10 game that revolutionizes the genre before it can be considered a success is absolutely fucking unhinged, partly because for all intents and purposes it just looks like Skyrim in space writ large to the scale of a galaxy map and trying to imagine some kind of Ur-game ala Cyberpunk 2077 is a fool's errand.
What if Starfield just turns out to be average? Do we have to raise the expectations for the game that comes after that? Does the next Bethesda title have to initiate the literal Second Coming of Jesus? Does Hellblade 2 need to give out free blowjobs before it can justify the $70 price tag? What the fuck happened to tempering expectations for videogames? The discourse online has become so thoroughly poisoned that even professionals and publications are gassing up melodrama to the point where it's entirely divorced from reality.
This is even worse than the time Anthem came out. It's just so tiresome.
I've learned my lesson from CP2077. I'm avoiding all marketing speak, reddit posts, tweets, etc about Starfield. CP2077 I followed with baited breath and holy shit was I disappointed. I don't want Starfield to suffer the same fate for me so I'm lowering every expectations I have for it.
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
And the thing is "skyrim in space" isn't just an average game. It's a great game that will, once again, sell like hot cakes and be massively successful.
And the thing is "skyrim in space" isn't just an average game. It's a great game that will, once again, sell like hot cakes and be massively successful.
Anything more is just a bonus.
Presumably. I've said it before, but we can't take these things for granted. We don't know that Starfield or Final Fantasy XVI or God of War III: Weekend at Kratos' will be great games, but we hope for that as much; unlike with Arkane, I'd argue, it's not that much of a stretch of the imagination to be confident that they will, but still, not a certainty.
Except Forza. There has literally never been a console Forza game that wasn't, at minimum, pretty darn great, and the best entries in the franchise (for my money, FM7, FM3, FH5, etc.) are some of the best racing video games ever made, full stop. Even Forza Street was good for a mobile racing game, it just wasn't Forza good.
The problem with Starfield is it's kind of the rubber meets the road as far as these big acquisitions go. It's easily the biggest game out of any studio they've acquired. If it isn't amazing, then what was the point of bothering to buy Zenimax if you can't even get a good Bethesda game out?
Redfall is triple AAA, but it's also Arkane (Regardless of the quality of their games, they've been hit or miss as far as commercial success goes) trying something new. As I've said before, if there wasn't a derth of new games from Xbox, I think it would have just been a weird Arkane game that people instantly forget about instead of sending things into panic mode online.
To contextualize the reaction, think about how long Xbox owners were waiting for a new big exclusive? Over a year an a half since Halo/Forza's last releases.
All that said, I do think some of the knives are out now that the full weight of Microsoft appears to be behind Xbox now, dropping $70 billion on a ridiculous acquisition and winding up showing ass a couple of times because of it.
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In fairness, "game preview" should be expected to be rough as hell. It's a preview, basically a fancy beta/slice, and I'm always impressed when they even run consistently. I think Grounded officially launched what, a month or so ago? I don't recall if SoT was a preview as well, but I think that one also suffered from "we made a game about playing pretend with your buddies and sailing around" and everyone assumed that came with like, quests and plot and shit. I don't think they ever even intended to, originally; it was "sail around and do stuff!" but well, here we are. (And I hear it's good if you're into that kind of thing.)
I just want Microsoft to have an identity again. You can justly dab on it but the Xbox/360 gamer bro brand made it feel like I knew what I was getting compared to the PS3 (cell processor super system!) and Wii (new control experience)
Grounded was a Game preview. Halo was..... Halo. This thing was seemingly teed up as the Next Big Thing and it just isn't.
Maybe it should have had another year, or come put in preview, or just... scrapped some stuff. But this isn't in the tier of first party that I think MS is spending money for.
It reminds me of Anthem, with worse production values. Just a lack of understanding of the sphere it was in.
(I generally agree with Skill Up in his reviews, and tend to enjoy his long-form Destiny takes, and didn't find this review particularly clickbaity beyond "doing a review of a notable fuckup that had high expectations.")
I went with Dav haha. Jacob looked like a sniper and that's not my play style.
Yes. It’s a bit different than early access in that all Game Preview games are required to have a free trial, but otherwise it’s the same.
I don't think Microsoft has used it at all much, except for Grounded.
It's basically there so people who are doing Early Access on PC don't have to wait to 1.0 to get their game onto a console. Sony still does not have an equivalent I don't think. (That may have changed recently, I forget.)
It's definitely not, but what I do feel is correct is that it piles a massive amount of pressure upon Starfield to deliver later this year.
And honestly, if Redfall was supposed to come out last year and is in *this* state after a delay, I am genuinely wondering what state Starfield was in before its delay last year.
Looking at the string of 1 star reviews it seems I'm not alone. Anybody else run into this? I suspect it's a store issue?
Okay, so there's probably something wrong with the purchases right now. But some of these Survivor reviews are from 4/30/23. Guess we'll have to see.
Did you buy your bundle with credit/cash or use Microsoft account points?
Used PayPal backed by my credit card. The purchase was clearly for the bundle with two dlcs. Only one downloaded or is available to download, the “cold as eyes” dlc, the “tipping rhe scales” dlc is nowhere to be found, and that is clearly listed as part of the bundle and I can only buy it individually as a gift, so I assume it is purchased. Also in game neither are showing up as purchased.
Maybe I have to play the campaign before the dlcs unlock or something? I dunno, very concerning
Essentially the bundle is saying I own it, and in the bundle page the tipping the scales dlc is there, and I can no longer buy the tipping the scales dlc as anything other than a gift, so I assume that means I own it? Actually yeah it does it says “owned” on the page
Very confusing and concerning, maybe it just doesn’t have a seperate download?
Ok somethings very wrong with the Xbox store, I reinstalled it and now neither of the dlcs are appearing, so I’m guessing it’s something funky on Microsoft’s end
It's funny you mention this, because I've been thinking lately how the vast bulk of my PlayStation nostalgia is centered around the PS1, PSP, and I guess the PS2.
And with PS4/PS5, they've divorced themselves so much from those days that it's difficult to form any sort of attachment via nostalgia as a result, bar the odd thing like Astro's Playroom.
I like what Xbox and its ecosystem brings to the table more as a whole. If a game is available on both, I'd rather play on Xbox. The first-party stuff is like gravy there, as far as I'm concerned.
Incidentally, even if they may be smaller as a company, Sony is still like the biggest player in the games biz, and they tend to act like it, so it's harder for me to root for them.
Of course, end of the day, I want Xbox and PlayStation to be about even, without a clear advantage over one-another, so they always have to be careful. That's my preferred scenario.
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For me when I pull up my order history in the Microsoft store page, it shows that I purchased the bundle completely.
If I look up the individual items on the console the "Deluxe Upgrade" is ticked off as owned, and I also only can buy it as a gift. But there is no option to download. Can't really uninstall the app on the Xbox but I'll have to try it again later and maybe it will show for me. Not really keen on downloading the game again as it's like 100+ gb. So... hopefully I won't have to do that.
Microsoft's problems are two-fold:
They don't have enough exclusive releases, and when they're unquestionably excellent, they don't count for "reasons." Hifi Rush is just a "small" game, doesn't really count. Forza Horizon 5 is still available on Xbox One! Booo! And Flight Simulator (metacritic score 91 on PC, 90 on Xbox, practically the best rated flight simulator ever released, certainly on console) isn't really a game, it's a...learning tool, or something.
The first one is a self-evidently obvious (like "Android is more popular than iPhone"; "Windows is overwhelmingly wider used than MacOS"), and one that even Microsoft has discussed at length, it's so self-evident. The second one, they can't really do anything about it.
Those three examples sound like strawmen, but they're literally arguments we've had on this forum and even on past versions of this thread. It's not enough that there aren't enough games, or you don't like the game, they aren't really "steps to fixing the problem." Could Microsoft fix the first issue? They're trying, but even if they did--the Xbox One launched with a strong exclusive lineup, that in of itself isn't enough to guarantee "success", itself a complicated end-goal. There's no way to fix the second issue, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've given up on that.
If Redfall has been received like Hifi Rush, that obviously would've been better, but would've have been the end of their woes? Of course not. Everyone who thinks on the question is aware of that; but most people just want to play a particular game. Instead, it was received like Forspoken (well, 1 point different on Metacritic for consoles anyway), and so the struggle continues. Being unhappy with Redfall (or, as the case is with a few people here, enjoying it) seems a more substantive opinion than demanding Microsoft fix things, whether they're capable of it (delaying a game again?) or not (last I checked, Oxenfree 2 isn't being published by them, so they don't get to decide if it's released or not), right now. Because as much extremely speculative industry speculation as we entertain in this thread (oh boy, do we entertain it) belongs to this thread (and the [Xbox] of the future), don't forget: people were still shouting Dooooooooooomm! during the whole of the Xbox 360's lifetime; and don't even remind me about the original Xbox, the system that was completely stomped by outsold the Gamecube (didn't count).
To take an example, is Game Pass a sustainable marketplace model? Sony certainly think so, in court and practice, but we can ruminate about what it means for any given publisher. However, the "average" user is, quite understandably, a lot more interested in what they can play on it. Let's at least try not to completely drown out the audience that isn't married to the industry insider baseball, even amid the inevitable amount of Doooom! (and perhaps anti-Doooom!) forecasting and existential angst. The Forums banned (?) the [Video Game Industry] thread for a reason, so we have to have a space for that talk (and this is it), but let's at leave some space for everyone else.
It mostly comes down to perception. Forza 5 as an example, came out in 2021 and while I own the game, it wasn't by choice as I was forced to get it because it came with my console. I've played it for around 30 minutes. I'll probably not play it further. Is that because it's a bad game? No, it's excellent from what I can tell, but I absolutely can't stand racing games fundamentally with very very few exceptions and I don't like GT for most of the same reasons. I wouldn't buy GT either, but thankfully GT is one game in a bunch of excellent triple AAA titles released on PS5 so I don't need to care or think about it. Microsoft Flight Simulator is in the same bucket for me, it's a game I would love to play but I absolutely don't have the set up to enjoy it the way it should be played and again, came out in 2021.
Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment are among some of my favourite games, which I backed up with my money because I didn't just gamepass them I bought both games directly. BUT, they are games I could have played on my existing laptop without buying a console for them as they are definitely not pushing any envelope in next generation gaming. Grounded is in the same boat, because it's also a truly fabulous game that I didn't need to get a very expensive console to play, as the 150+ hours I have on it on steam proves rather handily. When people talk about exclusives, they are very obviously meaning big major release games with a triple AAA budget like Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Horizon, the upcoming Starfield and that sort of thing. It's a simple fact that Microsoft haven't released a major triple AAA title in that space since 2021 and that's where the main complaint lies.
I'm perfectly happy with my console purchase for reasons that have almost nothing to do with the console itself, but Microsofts brilliant position of making crossplay a thing whenever they can. Because I can play a game on Xbox + my PC, things like Grounded that aren't really pushing limits of next generation hardware - noting it still looks and runs really well on my aging laptop - mean they are viable targets for "If I buy two copies, can I play this with my wife?".
I actually went and looked up Forspoken on steam. To my surprise, compared with Redfalls 31% rating, it's at 60% and the most recent reviews at 73%. So actually it's done probably a lot better and I would point out the review Embargo for Forspoken actually ended several days before its release. They didn't try to hide it until the last minute, which is something I find incredibly disagreeable with regards to Redfall. Noting that steam reviews are not perfect, but I can be at least mostly certain someone leaving a review there has actually played the game in some way by looking at the actual reviews themselves unlike metacritic user reviews - that's just a dumpster fire.
In any event, I think there absolutely were expectations on Redfall and the amount of eyes from journalists, commentators and other places around the internet suggest a lot of eyes are now on Starfield. That game really has to deliver, otherwise again, what does a Xbox Series X offer that a mid range cheaper PC doesn't if the best stuff being released on it easily runs on an average PC like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment? Like at some point with PS5s selling well and the Xbox Series X falling behind, they have to make an argument why people should buy the system and that comes from those big triple AAA titles and always has.
Redfall is immense disappointment for me and has me worried this will get Arkane chopped or something. Hopefully they've seen this and we'll have a back to basics approach. Make a good, immersive single player game and stick to what they've proven to be exceptional at.
I think taking anything Sony write in these legal arguments and what's actual reality often don't meet. Like the idea that they're the small underdog that's fighting to stay relevant when they have sold almost 2:1 ratio on consoles by this point, have a large number of high quality studios making exclusive triple AAA games for their platform and so on is just hilarious to me. I don't take their opinion on Game Pass seriously when it's quickly being associated at the moment with "This is not worth full price, but it's game pass worthy". What a brilliant model that's becoming.
I'm assuming these are typos, right?
This argument would hold more weight if Xbox hadn't published plenty of entirely excellent games in the spaces between those delayed/disappointing releases.
It's okay to say that the good ones aren't of genres or styles that you care for, or even that Xbox does have management issues. It's disingenuous to ignore them or say that they don't count, or suggest that Xbox suddenly can't be trusted to publish good games.
No I'm just pointing out the time between major releases. I wish I could get into Forza because it looks fabulous and the driving felt good, but I just don't enjoy racing games and don't find them engaging. On the other hand, that's absolutely no indication that it isn't anything other than an excellent game - it's just not in a genre I find easy to enjoy
You know, I didn't even realize what I did until just below.
Edit: My woife and I cannot seem to play Grounded tonight. It simply won't start on the Xbox Series X for her. I assume this is update related and it doesn't seem to be able to recognize there was an update out, but that's hugely disappointing
Edit2: Now it's claiming there isn't an active Xbox live account and won't let us play together anymore. Oh dear, I mean, what do you think I pay you for gold for Microsoft?
Edit3: Now it's back to redownloading the same update as it did the first time. Looks like it might be straight up broken.
Edit4: Back to saying that my Xbox Live Gold isn't there. This is a wild ride.
Edit5: We're downloading what I think is the same patch again.
I think my Woife and I have just run into a similar problem with these updates for Grounded and my Xbox Live Gold Subscription. Nothing works to make this update stick and to get Grounded to recognize that yes, I do in fact pay for Xbox Live Gold.
Edit6: Doesn't work at all anymore. Will need to fix this tomorrow. Woife has rage quit for the night and started watching Netflix.
I'm now picturing Forza Horizon 5 launching against Gran Turismo 3 and I think that would have had quite an effect on the XB / PS rivalry. Microsoft Flight Sim vs GTA3 still could have gone either way.
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And now we're back to downloading the same update again!!!!! No it's a different update of 2.6 gb.
This is an emotional rollercoaster for sure.
Edit: Time to do the good ole fashioned install and reinstall game.
Edit2: This is truly disappointing. What a shit show. My PC version of Grounded updated perfectly fine and can be played without a single issue.
Edit3: It is just "updating" by reinstalling the entire game every time I've realized. When I can get in, the game prompts me to get Xbox Live Gold - which I have btw - then crashes.
Utterly fantastic. A+. Well done.
I am going back to playing age of Wonders 4 where my Cat Viking Queen rides around on a unicorn that leaves a rainbow behind it.
I have only just realized what I did.
I have no idea how to fix it. Curiously I could get into a game of Horde Mode in Gears of War 4 easily, an impressive effort for such an old game!
Edit: At least it's happening to other people, so hopefully it will be fixed tomorrow night. We want to fight the new boss
Starfield will be a fantastic game that will have the usual Bethesda warts but also offer the most updated version of the Bethesda RPG experience.
It will review well(with notes of bugs and performance issues) and sell an insane amount.
But there will be a group of people saying its actually garbage because they were looking for a completely different experience then it was ever intending to provide and they refuse to accept that.
In the past, people have forgiven a lot of the jank and glitchiness, because that can be fixed by mods. But I think after the recent string of under-baked AAA of late, really starting with Cyberpunk a couple years ago, people are just a lot less forgiving today than they were a few years ago.
I think if Starfield comes out in an equal state to how Skyrim launched, or how Fallout 4 / Fallout 76 launched, it's gonna be a catastrophe. I don't think people are going to give them as much goodwill and forgiveness as they have in the past. Just my own theory and speculation. But I think that what was once seen as a quirk or a charming flaw won't be viewed so favorably this time around.
I think if Starfield isn't as perfect and bug-free as humanly possible, it's going to do some serious damage to both Bethesda as a studio, and Microsoft as a platform and publisher.
I'm not trying to be a doomer here. I just think that's the current temperature in the room. People are tired of unfinished AAA releases and I think that Starfield isn't going to receive the same grace that previous buggy-as-hell Bethesda releases have received.
Some pretty legit hard questions but answer of note of their internal mock reviews had Redfall “double digits” higher then the reviews
Even Cyberpunk was an extremely successful game. Jedi Survivor had all sorts of performance issues and reviewed incredibly well.
It's not at all the death knell people would have you believe.
What if Starfield just turns out to be average? Do we have to raise the expectations for the game that comes after that? Does the next Bethesda title have to initiate the literal Second Coming of Jesus? Does Hellblade 2 need to give out free blowjobs before it can justify the $70 price tag? What the fuck happened to tempering expectations for videogames? The discourse online has become so thoroughly poisoned that even professionals and publications are gassing up melodrama to the point where it's entirely divorced from reality.
This is even worse than the time Anthem came out. It's just so tiresome.
Word on the wire was that there was definitely a network outage
Anything more is just a bonus.
Presumably. I've said it before, but we can't take these things for granted. We don't know that Starfield or Final Fantasy XVI or God of War III: Weekend at Kratos' will be great games, but we hope for that as much; unlike with Arkane, I'd argue, it's not that much of a stretch of the imagination to be confident that they will, but still, not a certainty.
Except Forza. There has literally never been a console Forza game that wasn't, at minimum, pretty darn great, and the best entries in the franchise (for my money, FM7, FM3, FH5, etc.) are some of the best racing video games ever made, full stop. Even Forza Street was good for a mobile racing game, it just wasn't Forza good.
So nothing is certain. Except Forza.
Redfall is triple AAA, but it's also Arkane (Regardless of the quality of their games, they've been hit or miss as far as commercial success goes) trying something new. As I've said before, if there wasn't a derth of new games from Xbox, I think it would have just been a weird Arkane game that people instantly forget about instead of sending things into panic mode online.
To contextualize the reaction, think about how long Xbox owners were waiting for a new big exclusive? Over a year an a half since Halo/Forza's last releases.
All that said, I do think some of the knives are out now that the full weight of Microsoft appears to be behind Xbox now, dropping $70 billion on a ridiculous acquisition and winding up showing ass a couple of times because of it.