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[Victoria 3] Party Like It's 1836

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Ah, yes, the Victoria 3 dilemma.

    I don't want to be a imperial colonizer, but... I do kind of need those resources to continue industrializing, so...

    Maybe just a small empire. Maybe just a few colonies. Maybe just a soupçon of genocide.

    WotanAnubis on
  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    Anyone know how offense and defense are calculated? I am going up against GB in a war and their units are a tier or two below my mech inf, but their defense is like twice my offense somehow.

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  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    General traits can have a pretty big impact on offense and defense, and there are a few mid-late game techs that give big boosts to defense with the techs that give the offense to get past it a little later in the tree, to simulate the trench warfare of WWI

    Edit: also if you change the production method of your army (ie give them better guns) they get a 75% debuff that wears off over a year, so you can't keep them at the most basic level until war breaks out.

    SLyM on
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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    I felt kind of bad but I could not get any damn rubber (since the AI refuses to develop it) so like a real imperialist I just conquered Haiti and immediately put a max rubber plantation in there. NOW I CAN MAKE CARS. And Elastics. But CARS!!!

    Now you're thinking like a Victorian!

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    SLyM wrote: »
    General traits can have a pretty big impact on offense and defense, and there are a few mid-late game techs that give big boosts to defense with the techs that give the offense to get past it a little later in the tree, to simulate the trench warfare of WWI

    Edit: also if you change the production method of your army (ie give them better guns) they get a 75% debuff that wears off over a year, so you can't keep them at the most basic level until war breaks out.

    Don't forget that if GB has their Armed Forces interest group loyal and powerful, that's a +30% boost to offense and defense I think.

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  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    Yea I have researched everything and have all my army and navy stuff at max at all times and i still struggle against nations with trench infantry at most. Its pretty fustrating.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    The only reason I picked up a Paradox game on release was because I'm new to Victoria and I got it on a deep sale.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Sonelan wrote: »
    Yea I have researched everything and have all my army and navy stuff at max at all times and i still struggle against nations with trench infantry at most. Its pretty fustrating.

    As always for Paradox combat, it's a series of very strange and arcane variables that don't totally make intuitive sense.

    This post has a decent breakdown of some of the main mechanics. The TL;DR thing that you would not guess at all is:
    However, attritions in this game is quite harsh. And it happens that the base attrition when assigned to a frontline is also 2% on average [..]

    Here is the key part - battalions in reserve does not take attrition, but the barracks still generate training and reinforces your ongoing battle. So any excess barracks beyond a general's command limit will reinforce your active battle. As you are frequently limited by combat width in this game, having excess barracks drastically improves the quality of any troop that do get into battle.

    Consequently, it is better to have a general at lower level than your full strength, so that he can have reserves without taking attrition. A high level general that would fully mobilizes your reserves only causes you to take more attrition, which slows down reinforcement

    Aka it's a counter-intuitive system where unused troops sitting in your barracks can magically beam troops to reinforce your frontline while taking 0% attrition due to sitting at home. Troops you have mobilized on the front line but not actively engaging in combat (which is a lot of them, as the base combat width is probably way too low right now) are just sitting around taking large amounts of attrition while doing nothing.

    Beyond that, make sure you look at the details tab of your battles for a list of all of the buffs/debuffs you're getting:

    lofrx9ftw90i.png

    Fiatil on
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  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-66-patch-1-1-part-2.1557863/

    Next Dev Diary outlines more changes for first major patch...

    And discoverable rubber and oil will be a thing. That is a major wonderful addition.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Well technically not rubber. But a new production method boost will be really good.

    I am hoping that they rebalance the Authority mechanic some. Having a liberal and accepting society basically means you can't do anything at all with decrees and even severely limits things that might otherwise make sense for such a society, like consumption taxes.

    It's just way, way too difficult to have a decent pool of it, and/or decrees are way too expensive, especially since they are on a per-state basis.

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-66-patch-1-1-part-2.1557863/

    Next Dev Diary outlines more changes for first major patch...

    And discoverable rubber and oil will be a thing. That is a major wonderful addition.

    They're already discoverable; the disovery rate is just very low and it's constrained to certain areas. The AI is also just bad at actually developing them when they find them -- luckily that diary notes they'll be tweaking that for 1.1 as well.

    It looks like they're basically doubling the provinces where you can potentially discover oil now though, which is still huge. And rubber is staying the same supply wise, but getting a new production method to boost production.

    Fiatil on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Apparently pops getting fired means that I have massive radicalism problems despite being far away (like 27 to 22) the best living standards, the biggest GDP (1.4 billion to 300 million), no taxes, and generous welfare systems. Not thrilled by that.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Apparently pops getting fired means that I have massive radicalism problems despite being far away (like 27 to 22) the best living standards, the biggest GDP (1.4 billion to 300 million), no taxes, and generous welfare systems. Not thrilled by that.

    Yepp. Welfare will mitigate it a decent amount, but if you're high or close to max it can still happen.

    Decreases to standard of living are by far the biggest contributor to radicalism right now (aside from annexing tons of territory with a high infamy score), to the point that you need to be careful making short term gains because any small dips will piss everyone off. Be really careful with the production methods that just reduce your workforce too -- it may save the building money, but wind up with an unemployed pissed off pop.

    That unofficial patch I linked last page removes the malus for being fired because it seems overtuned at the moment -- I tweaked it back to default because there's so much broken AI stuff at the moment, but it's a value you can tweak if you want to.

    Fiatil on
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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    It feels like part of the issue is that buildings right near their profitability limit are constantly firing and rehiring workers as the market fluctuates even a tiny bit, as well as being fired looks like it potentially adds more radicals than it actually fired. By this I mean getting fired, getting fired from a building you have ownership shares of and decreases in standard of living all create radical pops and I wouldn't be surprised if the game added a radical pop for each reason even if only 1 pop got fired that met all the conditions. It just feels nonsensical that I can have an increasing average standard of living and no political movements with more than low radicalism, have made no switches to more productive but lower employment production methods, have modifiers from police that significantly reduce the radicalization from loss of standard of living and STILL have significant growth of the radical population. I'm also constantly constructing new buildings that fill up with workers right away with very little unemployment and a rapidly shrinking peasant population. Like does a peasant leaving a subsistence farm to go work in a factory, when there is still unused arable land in his state, count as being fired from his old job? If anything he should become a loyalist from the massive increase in his standard of living.

    I think the game also needs to rework how the size of trade routes is calculated. The extremely large trade routes you can get to places like Qing or France can so distort the market that the numbers start to become nonsense. I had a trade route with France for importing furniture that was one of the first I made in my Germany run, and I looked at the size of it around 1890 and it had grown to level 75, despite my country producing the second most amount of furniture in the world behind France (at that point they had like 30-40% greater production than I did). The impact on the price of furniture in my country was massive and it made the price in Germany significantly lower than the price in France. Or even worse is my export route of liquor to Qing, which has grown to level 100 and occasionally will fluctuate up to a point where it puts me in a convoy deficit, which I think should never happen. But as these trade routes grow and shrink due to market fluctuations that probably contributes to my radicalism from pops getting fired pretty significantly, especially since a pop could get fired one week as the trade route shrinks slightly, a different pop could get hired the following week as it grows again, and then another pop could get fired as it shrinks once more, if it even tracks to that level of granularity (which I do not think it does). I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's my trade buildings that are causing a majority of my radicalization issues honestly, because from my understanding their employment fluctuates a lot more than any other building, and in a way that is not obvious to the player and also difficult for the player to do anything about.

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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Was discussing "world events" with a friend and the topic of Poland came up and a friend couldn't believe a "European country" is that close to the conflict (the quotes will make sense soon), and I was like "Well, yeah. Where did you think it was?" And they were like "I dunno, on the 'other side', close to the UK and Sweden. You know 'Europe' Europe." And I'm like "Dude, they ARE close to Sweden, like Sweden is right there." He pulls out a map on his phone and is blown away by how close all of these countries actually are and asks "Bro, how did you know all that." I shrugged and on my way to the bar bathroom in a mildly buzzed haze thought "Yeah, how did I know all that?" It wasn't until I got home and fired up STEAM for a quick brain dump before sleep that it snapped:

    "Oh yeah. . .VICTORIA 3."

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I only know what the world's borders looked like between 1066 and 1936.

    Thanks paradox

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Amazing -- someone has already made a mod to update the oil distribution to match the 1.1 dev diary.

    On that note, some of the UI mods are fantastic. Visual Methods should 100% just be the vanilla UI design for production methods:

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  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    yeah it's weird how there's so much QOL stuff that's kind of obvious yet is missing

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The more I play it, the more it was clearly just some bad management decision to push it out too early.

    There's no way stuff like "babies have adult faces with beards" and "no one produces rubber in 1910" actually made it through playtesting.

    It's frustrating because it's a fun game; I wish Paradox would just be better with the state they release their games/patches in.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Don't you fucking take away my bearded Victorian babies

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Manipulation of the invesent pool seems the best way to develop quickly with lots of construction. Changing your economic policy can allow you a ton of effectivly free construction.

    I know I move to publicly held companies and interventionism quickly then keep the capitalist faction large and happy and you can practically print money.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    But I don't want capitalists to be large and happy

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    I have completed a Japan run (sadly no specific achievement but I got the serfdom one at least), a Brazil run for the Don't Vote for Pedro achievement, and an Egypt run to embrace my inner Muhammad Ali:

    256qavfwvw1r.png

    Egypt's starting generals are very good, and the Ottomans are very dumb. With the base combat width being fairly low, that leaves the Ottomans with basically no advantage from having more troops at the start of the game. The strategy I linked earlier of keeping lots of guys in your barracks garrisoned for free replenishment worked great as a a result -- any army size above like 20-40 on one front appeared completely wasted throughout all of my encounters with them.

    Hilariously they basically conquered themselves too. The Ottomans start with a railroaded event thing to retake territory from Egypt, so they declared war on me about 2 years into the game. I beat them up, sent them packing, and conquered 3 of their states for my trouble.

    They then fully embraced their inner Black Knight: 5 years later when the peace treaty expired, they declared war on me to retake territory, so I beat them up, sent them packing, and conquered 3 of their states for my trouble.

    ...5 years later when the peace treaty expired, they declared war on me to retake territory, so I beat them up, sent them packing, and conquered 3 of their states for my trouble. Conquest made easy!

    Fiatil on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Me, joining the British market in year 1: haha this rules, free demand on anything I wanna make! Maximum employment!

    Me, 50 years in, with my entire economy totally dependant on British whims: wtf this sucks, this isn't fair!

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    But I don't want capitalists to be large and happy

    Well you use them to achieve full employment then seize the means of production. I mean it will mean a civil war but you know....

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    This is the current state of warfare with the AI:

    0abxqvlis0xh.png

    I'm fighting on history's bloodiest front ever -- the Oklahoma panhandle. Attrition is maaaybe a bit high right now -- combined with the current combat width, my smaller army (105 with france helping me out v. 305) is winning by dramatic margins. Granted I can't really advance, but I can sit and wait while they go bankrupt and have to give in.

    It's at least historically accurate, as the Oklahoma panhandle is still an unsurvivable wasteland.

    Fiatil on
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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Well it is No Man’s Land. The US and Texas literally owned it for 80 years before anyone bothered to set up a formal government, and when they finally did they did a census and only 2500 people had bothered to settle there, even though the land was basically free.


    People more enthusiastically settled the Great Dismal Swamp.

    Jealous Deva on
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    It's a well known fact that the Congo doesn't have shit on Beaver, Oklahoma.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    As I follow along in the tutorial as Sweden, my budget goes negative and my gold reserves drain, despite my own initiative of taxing Luxury Clothes and Luxury Furniture? How do I fix this, or perhaps go into the correct kind of debt?

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  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    I have found doing proportional taxation then building stuff that nets high wages tends to be my best bet for income. I have yet to figure out how to make a profit actually trading.

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  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    As I follow along in the tutorial as Sweden, my budget goes negative and my gold reserves drain, despite my own initiative of taxing Luxury Clothes and Luxury Furniture? How do I fix this, or perhaps go into the correct kind of debt?

    Your biggest expense is usually building, so you can pause your construction queue for a couple of weeks, build fewer construction sectors, or build more lumber and fabric supply to drive construction costs down. If there's a nice stockpile in your investment pool, make sure you're building stuff that uses that. You could also bump up your tax rate or bump down your admin and military wages.

    Going heavily into debt and staying there seems to be the best strategy for experienced players but maybe don't try it during the tutorial.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    As I follow along in the tutorial as Sweden, my budget goes negative and my gold reserves drain, despite my own initiative of taxing Luxury Clothes and Luxury Furniture? How do I fix this, or perhaps go into the correct kind of debt?

    To piggy back on the above. the good debt is "White debt" (whoof, that's a phrase) which means "If you pause your construction, you will have non-negative growth on your gold supply." You can let that go until your bar is nearly all red (you're running on credit) and be fine, because you can just turn it off and the damage will "repair" itself (will probably kill your GDP though because the price of construction goods will drop). It is only when it is red that you're probably in trouble. Some SOOPER easy cures for red debt are: lowering government wages (these mother fuckers get paid and by lowering the wages you make the jobs less attractive so people can stay in the damn logging camps. . .until you eliminate their jobs with chainsaws and train transportation), lowering military wages if you aren't at war or aren't expecting to really be a war state (Sweden definitely has that, especially if you get Europe hooked on your economy), changing economic policies so that you can remove shopkeepers and instead use capitalists (they contribute to investment pool and would cover the costs of weekly construction; in my Sweden game, they are basically funding the entirety of construction) or - worst case - pause or remove some construction, and even reduce the total construction you have; the more you have the more simultaneous projects you will attempt and the higher your weekly costs will be.

    . . .overall though, for gold, if you're green in weekly income but not red in credit, you probably need to start building some stuff, lowering taxes, increasing wages or subsidizing under-performing buildings (and the opposite if you are red).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    hmm, some good advice and food for thought here. Had semi burned out after a Spain game into the 70s before the last patch where it was just slowing down too much for my liking. Similar experience with the US up to the turn of the century now after the patch.

    So, well-paying jobs are, I assume, manufacturing related? But you also want to get rid of your areable land, right?

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    scherbchen wrote: »
    hmm, some good advice and food for thought here. Had semi burned out after a Spain game into the 70s before the last patch where it was just slowing down too much for my liking. Similar experience with the US up to the turn of the century now after the patch.

    So, well-paying jobs are, I assume, manufacturing related? But you also want to get rid of your areable land, right?

    Higher end industry stuff pays well, but ultimately well paying jobs are any job where the good is in demand.

    You can get incredibly far by going to your market tab and sorting by most overpriced good. Build that structure and it will be a high paying job.

    Farms and such also build faster, which helps a log early game. But you definitely want to bring down the cost of construction materials, so wood and fabric, iron and tools almost always need attacking.

    There's not much need to get "rid" of arable land in my experience. Just make sure you're using those farm slots productively with in demand goods.

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  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    thank you.

    but now I want to have another go at a new Spain game!

    but then it will slow down when I get to reap my just rewards!

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    My honestly fairly simple strategy to taking all but the most disadvantaged nations to #1 GDP/SoL is:

    1) Your construction industry is the cog that everything revolves round -- the beast that always hungers. Try to always be building at full capacity, and try everything to keep your construction prices from getting too high. Maxing out taxes early on is good to this end, as it's barely a blip in their standard of living early, and you'll rapidly make up for it with all of your cool new production buildings.

    2) Debt sucks, because interest gets significant pretty rapidly. Ties into #1 a lot -- you can pause your construction to save a bunch of money, but if you're doing it a lot your balance is off. Focus on your construction goods cost more if that happens, and/or don't build as many construction sectors. But once you're in the green, probably think about building more construction sectors.

    3) Market tab. Probably the most important tab -- build stuff that is overpriced and you will pretty much always succeed. Consumer good prices being high drives down standard of living, and construction materials price being high means you're incinerating money that could be going to even more construction. When you switch to a new construction method your prices will get a bit out of whack for awhile and that's fine if you have the gold reserves to transition out of it -- switch your production methods gradually to avoid massive spikes though.

    3a) Vertical integration is just the way to go at the moment. The AI is godawful at supplying rare goods -- tea, dyes, oil, rubber, opium, silk -- they pretty much never have a reliable production of them to trade with you. If you want stuff that uses rubber, you better get into the colony game or start somewhere that produces it. Similar for advanced goods like steel and engines and such -- you're way better off securing a ton of coal and producing it yourself because the AI is a terrible exporter right now. They can supply you with bulk supplies of basic goods in a pinch though.

    4) Government/politics -- the way to get even more money for even more construction, and ultimately a better work force. Suppress the hell out of whatever aristocracy you start out with. They suck and hate you making more money. If they're in government, kick them out (can't suppress them while they're in government). They don't really care if you do -- having low government legitimacy when they're powerful is worth it to weaken them. On the other side, promote the Intelligentsia once they show up. Early on they're the source of all of your good policies. Push reform as hard as you can, but don't trigger rebellions. They're currently just really easy to avoid. The law you switch will tell you the opinion switch -- if they hit -10 and have power, they will start to rebel. So push them to -9 and then wait until they get happier because of your increasing SoL, or have less than 5% political power. Typically when they're at less than 5% you can radicalize them and they don't really do much. If you mess up the balance and a rebellion starts to build, you can just give into their demands and they will go away. Oh well, some progress lost -- just let them calm down and try it again later.

    Fiatil on
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  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    If an interest group starts plotting revolution, you can select a law they like and try to pass it. This will make them happy, even if the law never goes through. So you can select it, wait 100 days or whatever the law enacting time is, then unselect it.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    A reminder: a lot of these strats probably aren't going to work once the big update comes rolling through (legitimacy and passing laws in particularly are going to get a major rework - from being largely pointless to something to actually pay attention to).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Yeah. This version is basically a beta with lots of super unbalanced stuff that will change. Proportional taxation is currently free money too, and will probably change as well.

    Welcome to the glory of Paradox games.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Unfortunately it looks like the late game still has some pretty obvious performance issues. I was talking to a friend playing a late game save last night while I was doing the same, aaand yeah 1910+ is still really painful.

    I'm trying to finish up the Mexico achievement and the last 15 years are so slowwww.

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