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Pride and Prejudice and Goncharov [Movies]

BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
edited February 2023 in Social Entropy++
Pooka wrote: »
Grey Ghost wrote: »
I am baffled by the hold Mr. Darcy has had on readers and fanfic authors for 200 years now

It's a fantasy about meeting an incredibly wealthy and attractive person and calling each other dipshits in front of the whole town before making out 400 pages later

<_<
That and, "we made each other grow as people", the desire to match with someone who challenges you and embraces your perceived flaws despite societal judgment. An equal, a partner.

Like, (spoilers for a two hundred year old book)
Plot point 2, essentially, is that Darcy initially declares his love in the same breath as articulating just how beneath him Elizabeth is socially; he deigns to have affection and marry despite her lesser status and association with her trashier family members, because he cannot resist herself. For her part, she has to this point mainly experienced Darcy to be judgmental, and seemingly arrogant and unkind, both directly and through stories she's been told. So he has pride in his status and is prejudiced against hers as a result. She has pride in her self and family, and is prejudiced against his attitude and reputation, somewhat stubbornly.

She rips into him in her rejection, laying out exactly how he's been an asshole. The manner of his proposal was just the icing on top of reasons she has to despise him.

Hindsight reveals that he does love and trust in her -- he utterly believes her assessment as sincere, but it doesn't match with his self-image. This spurs him to reflect on who he is and how he appears to others, and his character arc is, "I'm gonna disappear and become the person I thought I was." The miniseries in particular shows some of his agency in that process.

A big part of the Darcy appeal is that he is inpired by her (and certainly there's hope for eventual improvement with Elizabeth) but he nopes out, doesn't bother her, and quietly gets shit done.

There's some business with directly helping her family, he does his best to conceal his involvement...

He's trying to be a better person overall, and also improving her life out of love, and isn't seeking a pat on the head for any of it. He actively works on being worthy of her good opinion without seeking credit or approval, he just does it because he realizes he fucked up.

So, the romantic fantasy: someone who wants to be better because of you, but to meet as an equal and jibe their self-perception and behaviors. That's someone who will continue to respect your opinion without trying to make you responsible for their choices.

Oh yes agreed, spot-on non-glib real answer.

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Posts

  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    I think the last date my wife and I have been on was when we went out to see Pride and Prejudice and Zombies in the theater.

    It was actually way better than I expected it would be.

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    i have been watching a lot of shudder exclusives and they tend to be really good!

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Ranlin wrote: »
    I think the last date my wife and I have been on was when we went out to see Pride and Prejudice and Zombies in the theater.

    It was actually way better than I expected it would be.

    the date, your wife or the movie

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was a disappointingly boring ass movie

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    The only good version of Pride and Prejudice is actually Bride and Prejudice

    https://youtu.be/AoWdk9CB-mU

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2022


    this apparently is the official studio ghibli account, not some troll abusing the twitter blue checkmark shit

    but no other information is available

    A reminder that Kathleen Kennedy has been a partner for Ghibli for some time now. She produced the US versions of Ponyo, Arrietty, and Poppy Hill.

    Could be Ghibli doing something Lucasfilm. Could be Lucasfilm producing the US version of something Ghibli or a long-term partnership.

    A fun swing would be something new. (Or Willow?)

    Brolo on
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    Porkins Rocco

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »


    this apparently is the official studio ghibli account, not some troll abusing the twitter blue checkmark shit

    but no other information is available

    A reminder that Kathleen Kennedy has been a partner for Ghibli for some time now. She produced the US versions of Ponyo, Arrietty, and Poppy Hill.

    Could be Ghibli doing something Lucasfilm. Could be Lucasfilm producing the US version of something Ghibli or a long-term partnership.

    A fun swing would be something new. (Or Willow?)

    Isn't it just Ghibli doing a short for Star Wars Visions Part 2?

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    a wild option would be The Alien Chronicles (Deborah Chester), but I'm pretty sure like 5 people read that.

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I’m watching Terrifier 2 and I guess I could see some of the practical gore making people sick.

    It’s really good practical gore

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Somehow I’m still excited for John Wick 4

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    My Neighbor Babu Frik

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    they should have cast Matthew Perry

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    they should have cast Matthew Perry

    Could you BE anymore dead?

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    technically yes

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    John Wick-Bing

  • Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    I think I'm in the minority that loves all the stupid Assassin Illuminati bullshit John Wick has going on. It reminds me of my teenage World of Darkness games.

    So long as they keep digging into that bullshit while going to pretty places and killings folks in fun ways I'll watch as many of these as they want to make.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular

    I don't get this. 2 and 3 spoiler discussion
    In 2, John realizes that the structures of the world of Assassins are a fixed game, set against him. One promise he's forced by their laws to carry out will force him to be in violation of a different law that will then cause his death. The person forcing this fake choice is apparently in the clear to FORCE someone to break the laws and kill a protected person. Realizing how bullshit it all is, John breaks a different taboo to get his man, at least get that little bit of satisfaction. Considering how he pauses to think it over before doing it, one imagines he is ready for the consequences.

    Unfortunately, one imagines wrong, John seems completely unprepared and shocked by the results in 3. He doesn't have a firm idea what to do or what his goal should be, to the point where he goes to the people who fucked him over with their stupid rules and begs pathetically for a do over. They offer him a way out, so long as he kills a friend, goes against his values and beliefs. John considers it, but can't go through with it. His "friend" then viciously betrays him for his effort and John FINALLY seems ready to burn it all down. Destroy the High Table or die trying. Enough playing by the rules because they don't exist and are set up to fuck him, no matter what he does.

    Except... no, apparently not! He's back to the Table, asking for them to give him an official rule to get out of all this trouble and is even speaking amicably to the guy who shot him off a building to get out of trouble. Who is WRITING this SHIT??

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I view the plot and lore of John Wick roughly the same as I view the action

    It's just there to look cool

  • Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Currently Kultist Kthulhu Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I view the plot and lore of John Wick roughly the same as I view the action

    It's just there to look cool

    It's disappointing is all. As shoebox mentions, it seemed like it was leading somewhere cool despite how convoluted and overwrought the path there is.

    John Wick 1 really was a perfect movie and I was excited for more of the setting. I might still catch this in theaters depending on word of mouth, but it would be the first one I skip seeing in the cinema if I don't.

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited November 2022

    I don't get this. 2 and 3 spoiler discussion
    In 2, John realizes that the structures of the world of Assassins are a fixed game, set against him. One promise he's forced by their laws to carry out will force him to be in violation of a different law that will then cause his death. The person forcing this fake choice is apparently in the clear to FORCE someone to break the laws and kill a protected person. Realizing how bullshit it all is, John breaks a different taboo to get his man, at least get that little bit of satisfaction. Considering how he pauses to think it over before doing it, one imagines he is ready for the consequences.

    Unfortunately, one imagines wrong, John seems completely unprepared and shocked by the results in 3. He doesn't have a firm idea what to do or what his goal should be, to the point where he goes to the people who fucked him over with their stupid rules and begs pathetically for a do over. They offer him a way out, so long as he kills a friend, goes against his values and beliefs. John considers it, but can't go through with it. His "friend" then viciously betrays him for his effort and John FINALLY seems ready to burn it all down. Destroy the High Table or die trying. Enough playing by the rules because they don't exist and are set up to fuck him, no matter what he does.

    Except... no, apparently not! He's back to the Table, asking for them to give him an official rule to get out of all this trouble and is even speaking amicably to the guy who shot him off a building to get out of trouble. Who is WRITING this SHIT??

    I mean I agree with most of what you’re saying here

    But also have you considered that they want to make more than four of these

    Like yes of course this should be like the last one of these and play out the conclusion of this regimented and restrictive world as it burns to the ground, but also, the regimented nature of it has become part of the identity of these films to the point that “comic book assassin Illuminati” is as associated with John Wick as “guy goes on a rampage because of dog violence”

    I too am disappointed! But I’m also not too surprised

    …for real though the conclusion did sort of write itself
    Mikey Neumann’s analysis of the previous films being “you did this to you” as John is provoked, followed by “I did this to me” as John’s past catches up with him, followed by “you did this to me” as the entire world sets itself against John and tries to fuck him into doing its bidding, and inevitably leads to a final conclusion of “I did this to you” where he burns the whole thing down

    I never bought into the idea that Winston was legit trying to kill him at the end of that last movie either, which meant he was setting up a longer game, and my only curiosity was whether John would forgive him for playing him like a chess piece or would shoot him regardless (I settled on a light wounding)

    I mean honestly, the whole point of creating something like the assassin Illuminati is to show that it’s bad actually and then set your hero against it, both because it creates an exciting set of against-all-odds plotting but also because rebels tearing down entrenched systems is a classic story that has mass appeal, like if they go against that and try to put John at the head of it at the end or something then they’re really just trying to milk a franchise, I think. Can’t kill he golden goose and so forth

    Anyway if you think I’m not super excited for more of this horseshit you’re crazy, I’ve loved each and every one of these movies and I’ll likely love this one

    But it always sucks when you can see a path towards a seemingly perfect conclusion and you feel really smart and satisfied with seeing it, and then the story just veers wildly in another direction

    Olivaw on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    the world-building in John Wick is very stylish but not necessarily load-bearing

    maybe that will change with the two (?) TV series they're developing in that world

    Someone call up Brandon Sanderson to help iron out all the boring details

  • DeadfallDeadfall I don't think you realize just how rich he is. In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered User regular
    Give me all the absurd assassin world nonsense. I will watch them all. It's turned into Fast and Furious series where, instead of seeing what crazy car stunts they pull off I'm there for the hallway kill scenes. Knife museum is a masterpiece in both pacing and absurdity. And I'll assume film work as I could follow it from start to finish.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Chapter 3 also demonstrated good judgment by
    1) introducing the Raid endbosses as villains and 2) not killing them off

  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    But also have you considered that they want to make more than four of these

    I agree with the rest of your post, I'm singling this part out though because they literally are regardless

    Before even deciding to take this direction with the writing of the fourth film, they
    1) already had a deal in place for a fifth film,
    2) had announced the Ballerina spinoff film (it started filming with Ana de Armas actually this week!),
    3) had announced the The Continental prequel TV show (it premieres next year on Peacock. Katie McGrath, who I loved as Lena Luthor on Supergirl, is the Adjudicator, so I'm excited for that!), and
    4) had openly discussed the possibility of an Atomic Blonde sequel crossover with the franchise

  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    The difference between Fast and Furious and the John Wick sequels is tension

    While F&F has become about unkillable super heroes, there's always a plot or mcguffin that the super heroes can fail at. The John Wick sequels are long fight sequences with no dramatic tension at all. John's unkillable and there's no ticking clock. It's the equivalent of Batman beating up henchmen for two hours in an empty warehouse. There's zero drama and nothing is at stake.

    Even the trailer for 4 tells you there's gonna be a kickass duel at the end and not a thing about what stands in Wick's way or why we should care

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Fast & Furious movies have zero tension (except that they might brutally murder more women characters they consider minor, I guess). Really bad example.

  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    It wasn't just the fight scenes that make movies like The Raid memorable.

    But honestly I'd rather go see "Cirque du Soleil - Now with Gunkata" as a cool experience and not have to endure a poorly written dramatic story that contains zero drama

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Fast & Furious movies have zero tension (except that they might brutally murder more women characters they consider minor, I guess). Really bad example.

    I disagree. They have as much as most superhero movies, which is more than the John Wick sequels

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    The difference between Fast and Furious and the John Wick sequels is tension

    While F&F has become about unkillable super heroes, there's always a plot or mcguffin that the super heroes can fail at. The John Wick sequels are long fight sequences with no dramatic tension at all. John's unkillable and there's no ticking clock. It's the equivalent of Batman beating up henchmen for two hours in an empty warehouse. There's zero drama and nothing is at stake.

    Even the trailer for 4 tells you there's gonna be a kickass duel at the end and not a thing about what stands in Wick's way or why we should care

    Fuck yeah that shit rules

    I mean not the part about the trailer, the trailer could definitely be cut better and give us a better sense of stakes or opposition

    But sometimes a story isn’t about wondering if a protagonist will succeed but seeing how they do it

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Fast & Furious movies have zero tension (except that they might brutally murder more women characters they consider minor, I guess). Really bad example.

    I disagree. They have as much as most superhero movies, which is more than the John Wick sequels

    Superhero movies haven't had the stars signing pinky swear contracts that every hero has to be LEGALLY the exact same amount of cool and strong big boys (otherwise how would Hawkeye have been in any of them). It's really noticeable and bad in F&F.

  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    I personally would not agree that F&F as it is now has anything resembling tension. I get what you're saying but in the other hand, that's how feature character movies work. Most movies actually.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Listen I watched and enjoyed Bullet Train, I'm the target audience, I'm here for basically anything these John Wick boys do

    But that's at least partially because almost no one else is making mid-budget R-rated action films anymore. The trends toward consolidation and studios banking on big tentpole franchises hurts everyone, including genre pictures, and I for one can't help but want to support these guys even in their more middling efforts

    Shit, is Stahelski still doing the Highlander reboot? I'll watch that too, fuck it

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  • DeadfallDeadfall I don't think you realize just how rich he is. In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »

    Even the trailer for 4 tells you there's gonna be a kickass duel at the end and not a thing about what stands in Wick's way or why we should care

    Yes this sounds rad as hell to me

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    I can no longer hear Seasons in the Sun without hearing this one.
    Maybe someone will drop this into the trailer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOGSvUCbu4

  • Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Wakanda Forever
    Oh my, are they setting up a...recurring antagonist? Be still my heart!

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  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
This discussion has been closed.