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Pride and Prejudice and Goncharov [Movies]

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    Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    I liked Split and I appreciated the camerawork and cinematography of Old

    I still need to start watching his AppleTV+ show Servant

    Sweeney Tom on
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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    After he made a movie where a little girl gets rapidly aged so she can get knocked up by her cousin, I decided I simply do not care to see his movies.

    He didn’t age the girl SO she could get knocked up by her cousin.

    That makes it sound really bad. Everyone aged quickly and that was the progression of 2 kids aging into maturity too fast. It’s not like the cousin was 22 and they intentionally aged a 5 year old girl so she could legally get fucked by someone.

    every story choice is a decision. the scenario does not actually exist, anything can happen in it. So, yes, he decided to keep an element of the story where a young child matures over the course of the day and is impregnated by the cousin. he did it so that story beat could happen, because he wanted it to happen, because he thought it was artistically relevant.

    And I think that's a weird gross thing to have in a movie, I think that's a weird choice to make, even if it's in the source material.

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I will grant you that Split has some problems

    But it's also a hell of a ride

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Split lost me when it was revealed that one of the girls was Special because
    her uncle raped her as a little kid.
    I just turned it off.

    that spoiler is for sexual violence

    3cl1ps3 on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I'm not saying that it's a weird pattern that there are multiple Shyamalan movies that have problematic shit involving little girls and sexuality

    but

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    So you do understand that the movie does not endorse the things that the serial killer says as narratively true, necessarily, yes?

    I mean, I know I shouldn't even get into this discussion, but the serial killer was just way into people who experienced horrible trauma

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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    iiiiii don't really think i would describe that plot point in that way. but like, i'm also not going to give a spirited defense of split. but like, you could say that about any person's history in any movie. she isn't special because of her trauma, but her past trauma does inform her character and why she makes the choices that she does.

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    She's the point of view heroine of the film, it's hard not to read that as tacit endorsement of her Specialness.

    I'm not gonna discuss it much further because I think the entire thing is just gross and weird and could have been done any one of a hundred other ways that would have been less fuckin' awful and whether he's actually into that idea or simply too stupid to choose something less awful is not a distinction I give many shits about.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    That is an bizarre read of that.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Personally I think the book Knock at the Cabin is based on is quite bad, so I'm going to be avoiding it on that basis

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I'm just at a point where if you put sexual violence, especially sexual violence against a literal child, into your film, I expect a certain degree of tact and skill and fairly strong story reasoning for why that's there. If you're going to ask me to look at something that horrible, make it worth my time.

    Shyamalan doesn't, and doesn't seem interested in really interrogating why he included that beyond "isn't this bad? isn't it bad that this happened?", and that is just profoundly frustrating to me. Using one of the worst traumas a person can experience just to be shock jockey shit suuuuuuuuuuuucks, dude.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Shyamalan is many things.

    Subtle is not one of them.

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    SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Since it's on D+ now, I caught Wakanda Forever.

    It's probably about as good as we're going to get all things considered. Not a fan of Shuri's actress, but she was believable as a sister in mourning.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Hold on, Mia Goth remarried Shia Labeouf and they have a kid now? Why? There are so many people who are not Shia Labeouf.

    Coinage on
    Happiness is within reach!
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Sometimes you wonder what it would be like if someone good got to make a movie once instead of Shyamalan eight times

    Hobnail on
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    You know what’s one thing we can all agree on?

    Green Room is a fucking good, TENSE ASS, movie

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Sometimes you wonder what it would be like if someone good got to make a movie once instead of Shyamalan eight times

    It's not like he's taking studio money from someone else, his last four films combined cost like 60 million

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Hold on, Mia Goth remarried Shia Labeouf and they have a kid now? Why? There are so many people who are not Shia Labeouf.

    the heart wants what it wants, which is apparently Shia Labeouf

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Sometimes you wonder what it would be like if someone good got to make a movie once instead of Shyamalan eight times

    It's not like he's taking studio money from someone else, his last four films combined cost like 60 million

    Yeah as much as I have a lot of distaste for Shyamalan I don't think he's like, stealing opportunities or funding from other filmmakers.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    Hold on, Mia Goth remarried Shia Labeouf and they have a kid now? Why? There are so many people who are not Shia Labeouf.

    the heart wants what it wants, which is apparently Shia Labeouf

    she times you gotta remarry a creepy violent abuser

    you know

    as one does

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    oh does he suck for real?

    damn.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    No I know it's awesome he gags up a rat for twenty million and it makes two hundred and the fact that it's so terrible it will burn holes in your brainpan doesn't factor into it, I do get it you know, I live here too you know, I get it, you're not describing your home to a stranger from far away Im right here with you, I get it, I've been confronted with this just like you have and thought about it just like you did, I do get it, like I do get it right, like I get it

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    I heard Mia Goth's real voice the other day and it threw me for a fuckin' loop

    It adds a level of charm to her performance that she sounds how she does while her character is unhinged, and I'm glad they didn't ask her to try masking her voice like every other film seems to

    But also the very first time I heard her real voice I was hysterical because someone compared it to if the Oy Mista! You Me Dad? doll was unbelievably polite, and I can't stop thinking about it


    My first thought was, "Oh, this is that fairytale voice Nicki Minaj did on MBDTF," but I haven't listened to that album in years and didn't want to go back to check

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    I'm just at a point where if you put sexual violence, especially sexual violence against a literal child, into your film, I expect a certain degree of tact and skill and fairly strong story reasoning for why that's there. If you're going to ask me to look at something that horrible, make it worth my time.

    Shyamalan doesn't, and doesn't seem interested in really interrogating why he included that beyond "isn't this bad? isn't it bad that this happened?", and that is just profoundly frustrating to me. Using one of the worst traumas a person can experience just to be shock jockey shit suuuuuuuuuuuucks, dude.

    Genuinely asking, if you turned the movie off how do you know it's guilty of this? Her past trauma is used to inform why she's kind of a nihilistic loner at the start of the film and why she decides to fight - and how she's so capable when she does decide to fight.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I did take a second stab at it later for that exact reason. That time I made it as far as James McAvoy breaking a knife off on his abs through the power of dissociative identity disorder before my eyes rolled out of my head and I put something else on.

    This is, granted, a compounding issue for Split: the sexual violence is something I really dislike, and I also think the core conceit of the movie is just really dumb.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
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    MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    you know you can find a story to be distasteful without it being a moral panic

    ikbUJdU.jpg
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Split takes place in a world with literal superpowers, I think that is breaking the knife not the did.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I think an extra irritant with the Shyamalan ouevre is that they are largely seen as like weighty thematic intelligent shit and so the fans will get right up your nose for taking shots at the hackest fuckest garbage this side of your local landfill

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    Split takes place in a world with literal superpowers, I think that is breaking the knife not the did.

    The Beast personality from his DID is what has the superpowers. His other personalities don't have superpowers. The psychologist also mentions a woman who was physically weak but had a weightlifter personality which let her deadlift many hundreds of pounds. One of her monologues explicitly says that the alternate personalities are what give them these extraordinary abilities.

    I think it's pretty dumb!

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I think the problem with Split is that it was kinda torn between two ideals

    Like, someone being knifeproof because they have superpowers associated to their DID - sure, I love it, I've read Doom Patrol, why not

    And the unsavory sexual violence bits ultimately being genuinely valuable for a character is, well, I don't love that but I think it can work in the right context

    But when you combine them in the same schlocky horror movie it starts feeling like maybe they're equivalent ideas, y'know?

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I didn't watch Split because James McAvoy is my nemesis

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I also think

    Split spoilers and also sexual violence in film talk
    There's something really hollow in the way that her history of sexual assault ends up saving her, because it's still ultimately just the killer deciding to not kill her (because of her history).

    It's not like, a rape and revenge film, or an instance where her hypervigilance saves her or prepares her to deal with her problems, it's just her scars being recognized. And yeah, there would be problems with her trauma giving her the ability to deal with the situation and survive, but it would make her feel like more of a person than a prop in that moment.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I think an extra irritant with the Shyamalan ouevre is that they are largely seen as like weighty thematic intelligent shit and so the fans will get right up your nose for taking shots at the hackest fuckest garbage this side of your local landfill

    Do people still think this? I feel like this is an old take and most people are now aware that his movies are…well just movies

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    His older stuff sometimes has an theme. The Village and onwards, not so much.

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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    Skinamarink, so far…I’m getting Paranormal Activity vibes where it’s probably good in a dark room with other people who easily get freaked out but alone in the morning…it’s kind of boring

    The one review I saw described the first 45 minutes as basically nothing but static shots establising A Mood. And then, right as the reviewer was thinking about turning it off, it apparently kicked into gear and was legit terrifying.

    ely3ub6du1oe.jpg
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    his movies absolutely one hundred percent present the pretense that they Have Something To Say

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    GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    Yeah, like Old has something to say about the dangers of going to magical beaches if you have faulty bones.

    Shit like that is important to know, it's cinema about real stuff.

    This post was sponsored by Tom Cruise.
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Grislo wrote: »
    Yeah, like Old has something to say about the dangers of going to magical beaches if you have faulty bones.

    Shit like that is important to know, it's cinema about real stuff.

    Well…there is definitely a “message” to Old. I’m not going to get into the ending because I’m lazy and don’t want to type it out though.

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    GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    Glass is all about the audience and how they need to pack away their ideas of cinema, and their wants, and instead experience the story they are given.

    What, just because the movie spends roughly 47 minutes talking about that tower you think it's important? That it'll feature in the climax?

    Fuck no, you'll get James McAvoy galloping like a horse girl in a parking lot, and you'll fucking like it!

    This post was sponsored by Tom Cruise.
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