If someone criticizes an aspect of the most popular and powerful religion on the planet you don’t have to play the victim. Especially when that criticism is clearly directed at the aspects pushed by hate filled sects prominent in America
White supremacists/Nazis are "christian" only to the extent that it helps their image. Same with pretty much all authoritarians - Elon with free speech absolutism, GOPs with christianity/evangelism, Trump with pretty much any non-terrible thing he claims to believe. They wear the label, follow none of the actual tenets, and revel in the hypocrisy as a demonstration of their power.
They have a lot in common with many of the more visible Christian denominations, at least in the United States
+2
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
oh we're on this again
+9
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
are there any outlets talking about how ye's public nazism comes after years of him being a very publicly devout christian, talking about god and jesus as the answer for everything, making his music (even more) about jesus, running church services, starting a school, etc
i think there might be like, a correlation between all that, maybe, somewhere,
Being a Christian doesn't turn anyone into a Nazi anymore then being Bi-Polar does.
that's why i said correlation and not causation. there is absolutely an undeniable correlation between evangelical and fundamental christianity and white supremacy (evangelicalism and colonialism use the same tactics, after all). i'm not saying "ye being a christian caused him to embrace white supremacy", but that white supremacy uses and weaponizes christianity and any legitimate good it does to its advantage
So it was at best a worthless thing to say and at worst deeply wrong. I've done more good for the homeless and the disenfranchised with the support of my church then I would have been able to alone. Fed people, clothed people, made sure they had social services like medication and housing. To support the inherent worth and dignity of all people.
I am a deeply flawed person, but I ascribe to be a more humble, thoughtful, and helpful person. My religion is a part of that, and please do not use it as a cudgel to make a point. That is deeply hurtful to me as a person.
those are all good things! i'm glad you're doing them even if i have my own personal issues with christianity and also believe it's intentional that governments gut social services and leave the responsibility of caring for people to religious organizations. they're also not at all what i was talking about with ye, although looking at my post now it is understandable that it could be misinterpreted that way since i didn't provide the context of "talking about god and jesus [as a deflection for any criticism]", "running church services and starting a school [that he profits from and requires his congregation, students, and parents to sign non-disclosure agreements for]", etc
+5
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Britain's current PM, whoever that is
The power structures of religion have co-opted the same labeling and language as community religion to obscure exactly this sort of issue.
White supremacists/Nazis are "christian" only to the extent that it helps their image. Same with pretty much all authoritarians - Elon with free speech absolutism, GOPs with christianity/evangelism, Trump with pretty much any non-terrible thing he claims to believe. They wear the label, follow none of the actual tenets, and revel in the hypocrisy as a demonstration of their power.
I hear this a lot and it's very much the "No True Scotsman" argument. A lot of Christians believe in mega shitty things. A lot of Christians are really sound. That's just how it be. And sometimes people get radicalised by some mental sect or whatever. That's also just how it be. Every time someone criticises a religion we get a lot of people saying "that's not a fair example!" And I disagree. It's as fair as any. There are a lot of Christians, some of them are going to be dickheads and their religious beliefs deeply awful.
Solar on
+28
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
If someone criticizes an aspect of the most popular and powerful religion on the planet you don’t have to play the victim. Especially when that criticism is clearly directed at the aspects pushed by hate filled sects prominent in America
i will say there's a frequent, direct line between "feeling victimized for being a christian" and "embracing white supremacy" though
yeah no, you really cannot extricate the ongoing rise of white nationalism from the death cult of evangelical christianity and its iron grip on american society, even and especially if it hurts some folks' feelings to have that link emphasized
yeah no, you really cannot extricate the ongoing rise of white nationalism from the death cult of evangelical christianity and its iron grip on american society, even and especially if it hurts some folks' feelings to have that link emphasized
My general sentiment re: Christianity in the south is basically, if you belong to a church that does a lot of really good things and is welcoming to all peoples, you have to realize that you belong to a minority of christian churches/sects. I grew up in the bible belt and for the one church that was like that there was probably another hundred that were just awful.
+13
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
White supremacists/Nazis are "christian" only to the extent that it helps their image. Same with pretty much all authoritarians - Elon with free speech absolutism, GOPs with christianity/evangelism, Trump with pretty much any non-terrible thing he claims to believe. They wear the label, follow none of the actual tenets, and revel in the hypocrisy as a demonstration of their power.
I hear this a lot and it's very much the "No True Scotsman" argument. A lot of Christians believe in mega shitty things. A lot of Christians are really sound. That's just how it be. And sometimes people get radicalised by some mental sect or whatever. That's also just how it be. Every time someone criticises a religion we get a lot of people saying "that's not a fair example!" And I disagree. It's as fair as any. There are a lot of Christians, some of them are going to be dickheads and their religious beliefs deeply awful.
we've also got like, two thousand years' history of people doing bad things in the name of christianity; i can separate it being a religion vs a political entity on an individual level but once it has any power at play the two become inseparable for me.
My recent church experience sample size is way skewed, where I lived in Portland there were a ton of churches but pretty much every one had one or more lgbtq+/trans/pride/rainbow flags hanging over their doors.
The (now ex-)Twitter employee who wrote to Ask A Managerfollowed up, and it is just...wow. The lowlight is Musk's personal lawyer (you know, the guy who tried to get employees to sign off on their work meeting the consent decree) telling them that they should trust Musk while having not read The Ultimatum himself.
White supremacists/Nazis are "christian" only to the extent that it helps their image. Same with pretty much all authoritarians - Elon with free speech absolutism, GOPs with christianity/evangelism, Trump with pretty much any non-terrible thing he claims to believe. They wear the label, follow none of the actual tenets, and revel in the hypocrisy as a demonstration of their power.
I hear this a lot and it's very much the "No True Scotsman" argument. A lot of Christians believe in mega shitty things. A lot of Christians are really sound. That's just how it be. And sometimes people get radicalised by some mental sect or whatever. That's also just how it be. Every time someone criticises a religion we get a lot of people saying "that's not a fair example!" And I disagree. It's as fair as any. There are a lot of Christians, some of them are going to be dickheads and their religious beliefs deeply awful.
we've also got like, two thousand years' history of people doing bad things in the name of christianity; i can separate it being a religion vs a political entity on an individual level but once it has any power at play the two become inseparable for me.
The Church was the political entity for most of that history, and the American dipshits all creating their own churches since arriving in the 17th century want to recreate that, only with themselves as the sole “divine messenger” who lives unconstrained by anyone else’s rules while constraining everyone else with his rules
Hell, US Cardinals are ready to split from the Pope now too
+1
JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
One of the things capitalism taught us is that the 2000 year thing is pretty much superfluous to being a religious hegemon
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The (now ex-)Twitter employee who wrote to Ask A Managerfollowed up, and it is just...wow. The lowlight is Musk's personal lawyer (you know, the guy who tried to get employees to sign off on their work meeting the consent decree) telling them that they should trust Musk while having not read The Ultimatum himself.
• He started talking about how Elon had launched rockets before, so we should trust his vision and we should all push the button and stay. One of the people on my team asked what Elon meant by “exceptional performance” in the email — in particular, how would this be evaluated for our team members?
• At this point, Alex told everyone that he had not yet read Elon’s email, and someone had to pull it up on their phone and show it to him so he could read it. He then explained how the email was intended to be motivational in nature and we just weren’t used to getting emails from Elon yet but he was and “this is just how Elon talks.”
→ 11/17: Our team saw a strange calendar invite pop up at around 11:50 am for a meeting that was taking place at noon.
• When we joined the meeting, it was to hear similar lines about how we should all stay/we should all push the button and we should trust Elon/he has launched rockets into space before, etc. etc.
• A lot of people asked if we could have more time to make a decision like this, but the question was ignored.
• When 2 pm came, almost no one on my team pushed the button. Those that did push the button were mainly people who needed healthcare, were about to go on maternity/paternity leave/etc.
Does the personal lawyer have any arguments for trusting Musk other than "he launched rockets!"
In other news today, not linking to signal boost, but the editor of the neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer got re-instated after having been banned a decade ago, and people are getting involuntarily unfollowed from the holocaust museum.
That Musk frequently responds to a fan account that tweets quotes from him is the best argument against any competence he might have.
Even if he personally designed and built those rockets, he would still be the guy who responds to an account called MuskUniversity that is literally just quotes of him with shit like "haha, so true!"
one thing that bothers me with all the reporting and talk about ye is every article says "kanye west (who legally changed his name to ye)" and then continues to call him kanye. you just said you know what his name is!
obviously not the same as deadnaming trans people, but like, still feels gross to see.
Apparently this is how I learn that Ye is not just a nickname
More like "he took credit for all the people who built and launched rockets".
Also, in general re the last page or so of this thread:
This stuff can get complicated, which is why (IMO) it's so tempting to say, "I don't care what this person wants (in this case, to be called); I don't like them or respect them, so I'm just going to keep doing whatever requires the least thought, effort, and change of habit for me." And that's how we get all kinds of stuff, including deadnaming.
More like "he took credit for all the people who built and launched rockets".
Also, in general re the last page or so of this thread:
This stuff can get complicated, which is why (IMO) it's so tempting to say, "I don't care what this person wants (in this case, to be called); I don't like them or respect them, so I'm just going to keep doing whatever requires the least thought, effort, and change of habit for me." And that's how we get all kinds of stuff, including deadnaming.
If I was like, Ye's psychologist, I'd probably investigate his decision a little, since his reasoning for it seems narcissistic
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
More like "he took credit for all the people who built and launched rockets".
Also, in general re the last page or so of this thread:
This stuff can get complicated, which is why (IMO) it's so tempting to say, "I don't care what this person wants (in this case, to be called); I don't like them or respect them, so I'm just going to keep doing whatever requires the least thought, effort, and change of habit for me." And that's how we get all kinds of stuff, including deadnaming.
If I was like, Ye's psychologist, I'd probably investigate his decision a little, since his reasoning for it seems narcissistic
Is it the top of the list of Shit We Need to Interrogate tho
one thing that bothers me with all the reporting and talk about ye is every article says "kanye west (who legally changed his name to ye)" and then continues to call him kanye. you just said you know what his name is!
obviously not the same as deadnaming trans people, but like, still feels gross to see.
Apparently this is how I learn that Ye is not just a nickname
It sort of is, or at least may have been
KanYe (this is the only reason I know how to pronounce "Ye")
More like "he took credit for all the people who built and launched rockets".
Also, in general re the last page or so of this thread:
This stuff can get complicated, which is why (IMO) it's so tempting to say, "I don't care what this person wants (in this case, to be called); I don't like them or respect them, so I'm just going to keep doing whatever requires the least thought, effort, and change of habit for me." And that's how we get all kinds of stuff, including deadnaming.
If I was like, Ye's psychologist, I'd probably investigate his decision a little, since his reasoning for it seems narcissistic
Is it the top of the list of Shit We Need to Interrogate tho
Medium. An administrative bother and major social change, but not a major life change with risk of substantial harm.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
+1
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Slinging seems like a fun (if impractical) hobby to get into
Would have to be very careful about how you enunciate when getting together your fellow hobbyists. “What’s up slingers!” Umm… Dave… why are your pants off?
I want a version of Sniper Elite where instead of being Captain Gruff Snipeman you are Alexios, a Greek shepard slinging smooth river stones right through a Persian invaders hog, complete with Xray killcam.
Slinging seems like a fun (if impractical) hobby to get into
Bought one while buying some archery stuff and it's fun, but you need a lot of room to practice, especially when starting. Also having semi-regularly shaped stones helps, I was using whatever rocks I could find and one slipped and went right into the lowest joint of my thumb on the back of the hand holding the sling. My whole hand went numb and then later was throbbing with pain.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
Posts
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
They have a lot in common with many of the more visible Christian denominations, at least in the United States
that's why i said correlation and not causation. there is absolutely an undeniable correlation between evangelical and fundamental christianity and white supremacy (evangelicalism and colonialism use the same tactics, after all). i'm not saying "ye being a christian caused him to embrace white supremacy", but that white supremacy uses and weaponizes christianity and any legitimate good it does to its advantage
those are all good things! i'm glad you're doing them even if i have my own personal issues with christianity and also believe it's intentional that governments gut social services and leave the responsibility of caring for people to religious organizations. they're also not at all what i was talking about with ye, although looking at my post now it is understandable that it could be misinterpreted that way since i didn't provide the context of "talking about god and jesus [as a deflection for any criticism]", "running church services and starting a school [that he profits from and requires his congregation, students, and parents to sign non-disclosure agreements for]", etc
I hear this a lot and it's very much the "No True Scotsman" argument. A lot of Christians believe in mega shitty things. A lot of Christians are really sound. That's just how it be. And sometimes people get radicalised by some mental sect or whatever. That's also just how it be. Every time someone criticises a religion we get a lot of people saying "that's not a fair example!" And I disagree. It's as fair as any. There are a lot of Christians, some of them are going to be dickheads and their religious beliefs deeply awful.
i will say there's a frequent, direct line between "feeling victimized for being a christian" and "embracing white supremacy" though
"It’s Time to Stop Giving Christianity a Pass on White Supremacy and Violence"
Nah it’s more like someone felt personally attacked so we had some conversation around it, and folks clarified their points.
Same ole same ole, really.
we've also got like, two thousand years' history of people doing bad things in the name of christianity; i can separate it being a religion vs a political entity on an individual level but once it has any power at play the two become inseparable for me.
Which was always nice to see.
Hell yeah!
The Church was the political entity for most of that history, and the American dipshits all creating their own churches since arriving in the 17th century want to recreate that, only with themselves as the sole “divine messenger” who lives unconstrained by anyone else’s rules while constraining everyone else with his rules
Hell, US Cardinals are ready to split from the Pope now too
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I absorb “the culture” through this board
Even if he personally designed and built those rockets, he would still be the guy who responds to an account called MuskUniversity that is literally just quotes of him with shit like "haha, so true!"
Apparently this is how I learn that Ye is not just a nickname
Also, in general re the last page or so of this thread:
This stuff can get complicated, which is why (IMO) it's so tempting to say, "I don't care what this person wants (in this case, to be called); I don't like them or respect them, so I'm just going to keep doing whatever requires the least thought, effort, and change of habit for me." And that's how we get all kinds of stuff, including deadnaming.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
If I was like, Ye's psychologist, I'd probably investigate his decision a little, since his reasoning for it seems narcissistic
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Is it the top of the list of Shit We Need to Interrogate tho
It sort of is, or at least may have been
KanYe (this is the only reason I know how to pronounce "Ye")
Of course not.
They know how to fuck up a big dude, so they use slings.
Medium. An administrative bother and major social change, but not a major life change with risk of substantial harm.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
slings are so damn scary and people always think of them as a joke weapon
Would have to be very careful about how you enunciate when getting together your fellow hobbyists. “What’s up slingers!” Umm… Dave… why are your pants off?
I didn't until like last month. I was pronouncing it like "yee"
Bought one while buying some archery stuff and it's fun, but you need a lot of room to practice, especially when starting. Also having semi-regularly shaped stones helps, I was using whatever rocks I could find and one slipped and went right into the lowest joint of my thumb on the back of the hand holding the sling. My whole hand went numb and then later was throbbing with pain.